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View Full Version : My Open Letter to Bungie about the 360 controller issue



dg
April 9th, 2007, 05:18 PM
I originally wrote this letter back on January 15th, 2007 and I have yet to see any sort of reply from Bungie. I'm not angry at all because I understand they they are busy, I might have sent it to the wrong place, etc. Anywho, I thought that I might just post it here to listen to your input on it. :-)

__________________________________________________

To: webmaster@bungie.com
Date: Jan 15, 2007 10:41 PM
Subject: Halo 2 Vista Developers / Public Relations


Webmaster: I searched around and I could not find any other way of contacting the development team directly, so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place. If this is not correct, could you kindly forward this to the right people? Thanks in advance!

Why hello there! First off, my name is Daniel G (why the fuck do you all want to know?) and have been following Halo 2's development on Vista for quite some time. I have been very interested in Bungie's work ever since Halo PC was announced and released. Due to my unwillingness, and lack of time to justify the expense, to buy an Xbox for quite sometime, I throughly enjoyed every part of Halo PC from installing to complex mods using community based tools. I was a little disappointed at the lack of development tools available, but my dreams were soon realized by Gearbox releasing the unsupported Halo: Custom Edition. Ever since, I have been testing things out, creating my own content, and even using tools to help the import/export process of 3D creation and other things made by community members. Unlike others, I am very happy with the current tool set that was provided, along with some "hacked" versions edited by a certain individual. I would not consider myself a "editing guru," but when I have the time I like to try and push the limits. :-) Either way, I would just like to thank you for creating such a masterpiece and allowing Gearbox Software to port it to PC. People can say what they want about the port, but thanks again for the great game.

Getting on to the point, I have been tracking Halo 2 Vista's development and I am very impressed. I ran across some footage of it that was recently demoed at CES and I am very impressed. Everything looked very high resolution (1920x1200 if these photos (http://www.futurelooks.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/12453/cat/528) are real) and the mechanics of the game seemed to have changed for the platform. I had one concern, however. In this forum thread (http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=9699494), the creator states that "Shacknews posted that the auto aim will be the same from the Xbox version if you choose to use a 360 controller ... " I followed the link (http://www.shacknews.com/extras/2007/011007_halo2_pc_1.x) and indeed the article says that,

"I didn't perceive any particular grand advantage over my controller-wielding foes; this is likely partially due to my unfamiliarity with keyboard/mouse Halo 2 (in some respects it does actually feel like a different game), but presumably Bungie also kept the game's auto-aim enabled when users have selected the controller method."

I was very alarmed to hear this due to many reasons. First off, if you had not heard there has been an aim bot released for Halo CE/PC. Many users have started to become increasingly more aware of this and have taken measures to try and deter this from happening, ala "Sight Jacker" which can watch players screens. This leads into the whole argument about they might consider this unfair. I for one do not, but I am trying to show what the players might say. Secondly, with the former in mind, I would not be surprised if once the game is released, an "emulated" Xbox 360 controller might be released to trick the game into giving the player auto aim even though they are using a keyboard/mouse. I am not a programmer, but I would think that this is quite feasible due to the 360 controller running through USB connections, which might be like using a "virtual gamepad." I would also like to point out that I have no knowledge of this and I don't know if it's even possible either because of complexity of the input or Vista's security features, but I am simply trying to help point out a could-be bug/exploit.

I hope that I have not bothered you too much with my ramblings, but I just felt the need to say something to someone who might be able to pass along my message. ;-) Again, thank you so much for all the hard work that you all have done in the past years and I see nothing in your way to give us another amazing game. Thanks and have a great day!


-Dan G.

If you would like to respond, please use this email address because my ISP provided email seems to be down at the time.

__________________________________________________

Meh. I thought it was pretty professional, but what do I know. :-)

~dg945~

AAA
April 9th, 2007, 05:20 PM
Looks Great. Good Job:)

Kornman00
April 9th, 2007, 05:33 PM
Your waaaaaay better off finding a HG contact.


No, seriously, contact HG.

But getting the aim assistant removed for controllers isn't going to happen when it gets released. Trust me though, HG did take time to learn from HPC's hacks to protect H2V from them.

dg
April 9th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Your waaaaaay better off finding a HG contact.


No, seriously, contact HG.

But getting the aim assistant removed for controllers isn't going to happen when it gets released. Trust me though, HG did take time to learn from HPC's hacks to protect H2V from them.

I know it won't get removed, but I just wanted to throw my opinion out there about it. :-)

Now go! With your tiny out reach urls.... :-o

BTW, what email can I contact Hired Gun at?



~dg945~

Kornman00
April 9th, 2007, 05:59 PM
BTW, what email can I contact Hired Gun at?

~dg945~
I don't have anyones email besides Nitro

Xehsin
April 9th, 2007, 06:06 PM
Nice letter bro, but its a little too late for that now.

I read in a recent interview, that the keyboard and mouse, and the controler are balanced now.

Spnkr
April 9th, 2007, 07:39 PM
I would not be surprised if once the game is released, an "emulated" Xbox 360 controller might be released to trick the game into giving the player auto aim even though they are using a keyboard/mouse.

Depending on how the controller is detected, I don't think people would even bother trying to do that when they could just make Ye Olde Aimbot. Even if they went to all the trouble of doing that, it's not like they are getting a really big advantage. If I remember correctly, the auto-aim on Halo 2 is rather slight.

dg
April 9th, 2007, 07:54 PM
If I remember correctly, the auto-aim on Halo 2 is rather slight.

Yeah, I forgot. It wasn't THAT bad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjcwAwZu_XY) ;-)

Anywho, I know it's way too far into development to do anything, but if someone could find a PR email or something I could email this to, I would love it! Thanks for the read, guys!


~dg945~

Agamemnon
April 9th, 2007, 07:57 PM
Yeah, I forgot. It wasn't THAT bad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjcwAwZu_XY) ;-)

Anywho, I know it's way too far into development to do anything, but if someone could find a PR email or something I could email this to, I would love it! Thanks for the read, guys!


~dg945~
Lol, good ol' Master Chicken.

TPE
April 9th, 2007, 08:03 PM
dont bother with bungie, try to find a hired gun email and spam them with it ;(

Spnkr
April 9th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Yeah, I forgot. It wasn't THAT bad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjcwAwZu_XY) ;-)Auto-aiming is when the reticle "sticks" to the target a little. It was added because aiming with an analog stick isn't as easy as with a mouse. That wasn't auto-aim in the video, that was the tracking for different weapons which will probably apply to both mouse and controller in H2V. In Halo 2, I believe pretty much all projectiles have a limited amount of tracking, not enough to be really noticeable, but tracking nonetheless. Either that, or increased hitboxes.

I'm pretty sure you thinking about a different feature than I am.

Neuro Guro
April 9th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Hopefully it will be easy to fix in halo2vista when you're making a map if you want to add fall damage / edit the gun's magnetism / edit hitboxes.

Xehsin
April 10th, 2007, 08:55 AM
I read in a recent interview, that the keyboard and mouse, and the controler are balanced now.

heh, i quoted myself. Anyway i found the article bro, it was from the Gamespot Q & A for District, and at the last bit they said...



GS: Finally, has multiplayer been balanced so that everyone is on equal footing, regardless of the type of controller that they're using? Or will mouse-and-keyboard players have a distinct advantage versus gamepad players?

DM, MVG, and KW: We did some balancing to make the keyboard-and-mouse experience on par with the controller. Overall, we believe that the controller will prove to be a popular and competitive option for those that prefer it. When our team plays large multiplayer games, controller players regularly school the keyboard/mouse players, and vice versa

So they say that its balanced, i don't think the controler will have a huge auto-aim effect in it. So don't worry. ;)

Kornman00
April 10th, 2007, 11:01 AM
Though, I doubt they take much of community opinion into consideration at Bungie...
Ooo how wrong that statement is ^_^!


Depending on how the controller is detected, I don't think people would even bother trying to do that when they could just make Ye Olde Aimbot. Even if they went to all the trouble of doing that, it's not like they are getting a really big advantage. If I remember correctly, the auto-aim on Halo 2 is rather slight.
Seeing as how an aimbot didn't come out until bitterbanana mistrusted some asshole with the source to a external zelda app, I'm pretty confident in the lack of real aimbots for h2v. No, really.

NitrousOxide
April 10th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Keyboard and mouse vs controller is very balanced. At the office we play with both KB+M and controller on and off and neither has a distinct advantage. A lot of people switch on and off between the two during games based on the weapon they are carrying. For example, if I'm in close quarters, I like to use the controller, but as soon as I get a sniper rifle in my hand, I KB+M it.

Trust me, it's balanced.

Agamemnon
April 10th, 2007, 05:21 PM
...which will apply to both mouse and controller in H2V.
Care to confirm where you heard that?

Spnkr
April 10th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Care to confirm where you heard that?

Bad phrasing, my apologies. Of course I don't know anything right now, I'm just pretty sure it won't change based on your controller.

dg
April 10th, 2007, 09:02 PM
Keyboard and mouse vs controller is very balanced. At the office we play with both KB+M and controller on and off and neither has a distinct advantage. A lot of people switch on and off between the two during games based on the weapon they are carrying. For example, if I'm in close quarters, I like to use the controller, but as soon as I get a sniper rifle in my hand, I KB+M it.

Trust me, it's balanced.

Ha, I can't believe I actually got an answer from you! I forgot to mention that I don't really care too much anymore, but back in January I had my doubts.

I'm glad that the community is being heard even over minor things like this. :-)

Thanks again!


~dg945~

Agamemnon
April 10th, 2007, 09:47 PM
Bad phrasing, my apologies. Of course I don't know anything right now, I'm just pretty sure it won't change based on your controller.
What was actually mentioned in the update was that controllers would utilize auto aim definitely, though apparently nothing was set in stone (they also didn't say much about KB+M either). Needless to say, I don't think we should really jump to conclusions until we actually get our hands on the game.

[MT]Slayer
April 10th, 2007, 10:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7KE9xUVTk

watch this. The autoaim is huge. Imagine that on every server with like half of the people there with Xbox 360 controllers.

Hurrvish
April 10th, 2007, 10:30 PM
you should try playing halo ce with a controller

i practically begged for autoaim

now what if halo 2 never had autoaim for the controller?

Timo
April 10th, 2007, 10:44 PM
Slayer;47617']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7KE9xUVTk

watch this. The autoaim is huge. Imagine that on every server with like half of the people there with Xbox 360 controllers.

How do you know that they'll keep the same settings for both platforms?

Zeph
April 10th, 2007, 11:37 PM
thats nice. maybe you should have made it before it went gold.

Kornman00
April 11th, 2007, 12:37 AM
maybe you should have made it before it went gold.
or yellow :-3

Agamemnon
April 11th, 2007, 05:12 AM
you should try playing halo ce with a controller

i practically begged for autoaim

now what if halo 2 never had autoaim for the controller?
It'd probably not suck. People would have to cope with the fact that the controller is sluggish compared to the KB+M and is the reason why there's autoaim on the Xbox versions of the game.

MereCatfish
April 11th, 2007, 06:36 AM
lmao, you sent a letter to the webmaster and you expect a sensible response?

Snowy
April 11th, 2007, 08:12 PM
thats nice. maybe you should have made it before it went gold.

I doubt that H2V has gone gold yet. Although, I would expect it too soon. (less than 10 days)

Xehsin
April 11th, 2007, 09:31 PM
I see some Controler hate, but i agree with Agamemnon, for the controler to cope with the pwning of the KB+M they added auto aim, it is balanced now, but from the recent interview... controler has a bit more advantage.

Now sadly.. i'll be using a controler, unless i get a desktop, because im getting a laptop, and i CANNOT use the touch pad, and the flag keyboard. Even though im pretty good with KB+M in Halo PC.

dg
April 11th, 2007, 09:54 PM
thats nice. maybe you should have made it before it went gold.

It went Gold that early? Back in January? Oops! I had no clue! :-x


lmao, you sent a letter to the webmaster and you expect a sensible response?

I included a bit in the front:

Webmaster: I searched around and I could not find any other way of contacting the development team directly, so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place. If this is not correct, could you kindly forward this to the right people? Thanks in advance!

I tried my best, man! Can you find Hired Gun's PR email? I would love it! :-)


~dg945~

Hurrvish
April 11th, 2007, 09:55 PM
just pm nitro, he might pass it on

DaneO'Roo
April 13th, 2007, 08:47 AM
I duno I like mouse more because I dunno I feel like my thumbs just aren't enough control for me. Plus I just like the speed at wich I can move my aimer with a mouse, definately helps in maps like Chiron, where reflexes are a must.

FRain
April 16th, 2007, 08:41 AM
I can see how you are not getting any responses. The correct email to send to them is webmaster/adress@bungie.net (webmaster/adress@bungie.net) You sent your email to bungie.com Doh!

WolfenRage
April 29th, 2007, 03:54 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned but this controller will probably give mouse and keyboard support with auto aim

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/22/team-xtenders-xfps-360-in-action/

and will probably be undetectable, but its $80 plus the wired controller you have to have

Syuusuke
April 29th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Interesting...

but this was back in December/Jan so maybe they know about this?