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Warsaw
September 28th, 2010, 06:04 PM
Can someone please explain to me this beef with the Halo 2 Hunters? They were about as laughably easy as the Halo 1 iteration, just taller and scarier sounding.

Donut
September 28th, 2010, 06:14 PM
i think the idea is that their melees killed you faster and they could melee backwards. that was a big deal compared to halo 1, because it made approaching their back more difficult than halo 1. sniper rifles were still always a 1sk on hunters if you got them in the back though.

hunter melee in reach is ridiculous. i played through on NORMAL and one melee killed me. that one part where youre in that night club place with all the neon lights was fucking awful. 4 hunters. 2/3 of my total deaths in my first play through the campaign were due to those hunters.

Futzy
September 28th, 2010, 06:16 PM
i think the idea is that their melees killed you faster and they could melee backwards. that was a big deal compared to halo 1, because it made approaching their back more difficult than halo 1. sniper rifles were still always a 1sk on hunters if you got them in the back though.

hunter melee in reach is ridiculous. i played through on NORMAL and one melee killed me. that one part where youre in that night club place with all the neon lights was fucking awful. 4 hunters. 2/3 of my total deaths in my first play through the campaign were due to those hunters.
You must be terrible. I only died in there once on my first run. Which was heroic. I did the siege of madrigal egg for my legendary run though.

Warsaw
September 28th, 2010, 06:25 PM
i think the idea is that their melees killed you faster and they could melee backwards. that was a big deal compared to halo 1, because it made approaching their back more difficult than halo 1. sniper rifles were still always a 1sk on hunters if you got them in the back though.

hunter melee in reach is ridiculous. i played through on NORMAL and one melee killed me. that one part where youre in that night club place with all the neon lights was fucking awful. 4 hunters. 2/3 of my total deaths in my first play through the campaign were due to those hunters.

I'll tell you a secret: shotguns and needle rifles are the Jesus against Hunters.

Arteen
September 28th, 2010, 06:46 PM
Can someone please explain to me this beef with the Halo 2 Hunters? They were about as laughably easy as the Halo 1 iteration, just taller and scarier sounding.
They were still relatively easy, but I didn't care for them because of their 1-hit kill melees and high resistance to most non-sniper weapons. But it was great that they had a few more moves at their disposal and weren't complete jokes like in Halo 1. Halo 3 and ODST's Hunters were implemented much better.

ejburke
September 28th, 2010, 07:10 PM
1 Pistol shot to the back -- too easy. Everyone can agree on that. But what about one plasma stick to the back or one needle explosion to the back? Why can't that kill them? Must they be such obnoxious damage sponges? I say, 'NAY!'

Also, Remember how bad-ass you felt in Halo 1 when you rounded a corner and a sword Elite was bearing down on you and the only thing you could do to survive was to no-scope him with the sniper rifle? Not quite the same feeling when he doesn't go down in one shot.

Donut
September 28th, 2010, 07:16 PM
You must be terrible. I only died in there once on my first run.
yes that must be it. i must be terrible because im incapable of dodging the hunter melee attack that we have already established is nearly impossible to dodge.

thanks for the needle rifle tip though. ill try that next time

Futzy
September 28th, 2010, 07:43 PM
yes that must be it. i must be terrible because im incapable of dodging the hunter melee attack that we have already established is nearly impossible to dodge.

thanks for the needle rifle tip though. ill try that next time
It's called not standing a meter from them

Pooky
September 28th, 2010, 07:51 PM
To everyone complaining the Hunters are too hard:

They are kind of BS at times, but they're really not that difficult. You just have to be a lot more agressive with your circle strafing to keep them from using their stupid un-dodge-able melee swing. Also, they actually take damage from grenades now, so you can soften them up pretty well by tossing all your nades at them before closing.

Personally, I thought Legendary in Reach was way too easy. I hardly ever died in my whole first run, some levels (The Package) I didn't even die at all. I miss Halo 2's intense and punishing difficulty :(

Donut
September 28th, 2010, 07:55 PM
It's called not standing a meter from them
its called normal difficulty, and them standing on a staircase that is inaccessible without going through them. its not to much the fact that its a 1sk, but that EVERY hunter melee is a 1sk on normal

and really, is it necessary to openly be a prick to me like this? im just stating my problem with hunters. warsaw and pooky's helpful comments are appreciated, your sarcastic, demeaning comments are not.

ejburke
September 28th, 2010, 08:17 PM
The only thing that I recall making Halo 2's Legendary more bullshit than any of the others were the psychic hair-trigger Jackal snipers. Being punished for making a mistake is one thing, but being punished for not knowing exactly where the enemies spawn or set up is just bad design.

Some of you seem to have a "1337er-than-thou" attitude. That's just not what this is about. We're talking about good design vs questionable design. The game could be 10x harder -- if they figured out how to do it fairly and make the experience the most rewarding and satisfying game you've ever played, few would complain. It's not so much that the Hunters are a pain to take down, it's that I just don't want to bother taking them down. It's a dance this game forces on me that I have no interest in.

Edit: To Illustrate:

Killing a Grunt with a single DMR shot to the head --> satisfying

Killing a Grunt with 4-5 DMR shots to the body --> not satisfying

Killing Hunters in Reach feels like the latter example.

Pooky
September 28th, 2010, 08:32 PM
The only thing that I recall making Halo 2's Legendary more bullshit than any of the others were the psychic hair-trigger Jackal snipers. Being punished for making a mistake is one thing, but being punished for not knowing exactly where the enemies spawn or set up is just bad design.

If you're talking to me here, all I was saying was that I enjoyed Halo 2's Legendary mode because it was sadistically difficult. I didn't say anything about how I'm more 1337 than other people.

But yeah, Reach Legendary is still way too freakin' easy. It just doesn't feel Legendary, more like Slightly more Heroic.

Spartan094
September 28th, 2010, 09:00 PM
Somebody just called Bungie the new Third Reich, I never expected that at all. I laughed.

DarkHalo003
September 28th, 2010, 10:16 PM
its called normal difficulty, and them standing on a staircase that is inaccessible without going through them. its not to much the fact that its a 1sk, but that EVERY hunter melee is a 1sk on normal

and really, is it necessary to openly be a prick to me like this? im just stating my problem with hunters. warsaw and pooky's helpful comments are appreciated, your sarcastic, demeaning comments are not.
Dude, listen to what he's saying about the Needle Rifle. You also don't bum-rush Reach Hunters; you should've figured that out the first time you fought them. The thing is, Hunters were always intended to be this strong and this vicious. I'm greatly satisfied with this change mainly because it's finally complete for an Enemy that's changed so much since Halo 1. Also, did anyone notice they didn't have the Assault Cannon? I thought that was a bit odd at first.

ejburke
September 28th, 2010, 10:34 PM
What's so special about the needle rifle? I tried that a while ago, got a supercombine right in the back and the Hunter just shrugged it off. I'm not going to play guessing games as to how many supercombines it will take. They should be dead in one. If they're going to treat them like vehicles that are resistent to small arms fire, then give me a hijack animation, where I cut a hole in their back and stuff a grenade in it.

Donut
September 28th, 2010, 10:37 PM
yeah, i realize bumrushing doesnt work. your options are kind of limited when 50% of your movement area is cut off by walls and the hunters are on elevated positions. i couldnt figure out how to get behind them, and when i finally did i was too close but had nowhere to go because of walls and stairs blocking me in, or i was just too close to get away from their melee. i didnt have a problem managing the ones on ground level once i figured out all of their attacks, but the only way i was able to take out the ones up higher was with the rocket launcher conveniently placed under a spotlight in the center of the room, and even that just barely did the job. when i can get around to the back (for example, the hunters at the end) the shotgun has worked pretty well. the hunters at the end were actually not a problem at all for me. i dont know if thats because i used a drop shield as cover, or if theres just a different terrain advantage or what, but it wasnt nearly as bad as the night club place.

i actually dont think i ever even picked up a needle rifle through the whole campaign though, so next time i play through ill use it. its worked pretty well for me in MP so far

Futzy
September 28th, 2010, 10:41 PM
There are jet packs in the room where the rocket is in odst. Get them, activate the transmitter and get out if they're really that annoying.

Donut
September 28th, 2010, 10:44 PM
the ai were telling me to kill them. didnt realize i could just avoid them. i figured i had to kill them before the game would let me do anything with the transmitter. thanks for the tip

whats that about rockets in odst though?

Futzy
September 28th, 2010, 10:51 PM
The club is crater from odst. Theres a room below the stairs that you come in down where the rockets were in odst and jet packs in reach.

Warsaw
September 28th, 2010, 11:27 PM
Dude, listen to what he's saying about the Needle Rifle. You also don't bum-rush Reach Hunters; you should've figured that out the first time you fought them. The thing is, Hunters were always intended to be this strong and this vicious. I'm greatly satisfied with this change mainly because it's finally complete for an Enemy that's changed so much since Halo 1. Also, did anyone notice they didn't have the Assault Cannon? I thought that was a bit odd at first.

That was me with the Needle Rifle advice, not MrBig. I feel so overlooked. :smith:

Limited
September 28th, 2010, 11:29 PM
Omg, I just finished 2 CRAZY games. Both were Team Snipers. The first game I went 27 kills, +15 no one could touch me, 5 assists it was nuts.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=130184811&player=Limited55

Last game I played, 2 people quit at the very start, 4 vs 2 Team Snipers on The Cage, my teammate wasnt that good but wow we won 35 - 33, and we didnt hide or anything, pure killing.

I need to buy a capture card and film some of my game saves :O

NotZac
September 28th, 2010, 11:57 PM
The club is crater from odst.
My goodness, I didn't even notice. That just blew my mind.

jcap
September 29th, 2010, 12:20 AM
lol, you didn't notice the layout of the stairs the first time you ran through? The first thing that flashed back was the "oh shit" moments from firefight when the hunters follow you up the stairs. :(

My mind was blown at how they turned that plaza into a night club though.

Arteen
September 29th, 2010, 12:52 AM
lol, you didn't notice the layout of the stairs the first time you ran through? The first thing that flashed back was the "oh shit" moments from firefight when the hunters follow you up the stairs. :(

My mind was blown at how they turned that plaza into a night club though.
I noticed that it was Crater-esque the two times I've played the level, but I didn't pay enough attention to realize it was Crater. You know, with the Hunters and all. I'm tempted to go back and check it out, but I find that level somewhere between Library and Cortana on the fun scale.

ejburke
September 29th, 2010, 01:08 AM
Ooh, ranking game. Library > New Alexandria > Cortana. I've made dozens of runs through the library and a handful were a lot of fun. Not the first time. Not the last time, but a few times in the middle there give it the nod over the others.

Warsaw
September 29th, 2010, 01:33 AM
I find the Library fun if you play it with comedy in mind. If you take the level seriously, it sucks. If you laugh at the stupid AI, the behaviour of Carrier forms and the pop they make, and make fun of the terribad pre-ragdoll physics, it's quite hilarious.

Cortana was just...bad. I don't even have anything good to say about it. It was frustrating, poorly laid out, and long (which isn't bad in itself, but coupled with the rest it exacerbates things).

Now New Alexandria is annoying with all the back and forth running around, but it has good moments in it (like said Night Club).

Pooky
September 29th, 2010, 02:11 AM
Dear Bungie:

Let me reiterate that your playlists are fucking garbage.

All I wanted to do today was finish my commendation for automatic weapons in matchmaking. I searched in Rumble Pit, the faggots voted for Infection. I searched Invasion, the faggots voted for Hemorrhage. I searched Team Slayer, the faggots voted for SWAT. I searched Team Objective, the faggots voted for Headhunter Pro. Bungie, you are horrible at making games and should kill yourselves.

Thanks,

9 year Halo veterans.

TeeKup
September 29th, 2010, 02:43 AM
Dear Bungie:

Let me reiterate that your playlists are fucking garbage.

All I wanted to do today was finish my commendation for automatic weapons in matchmaking. I searched in Rumble Pit, the faggots voted for Infection. I searched Invasion, the faggots voted for Hemorrhage. I searched Team Slayer, the faggots voted for SWAT. I searched Team Objective, the faggots voted for Headhunter Pro. Bungie, you are horrible at making games and should kill yourselves.

Thanks,

9 year Halo veterans.

Why the HELL does everyone vote for infection? Infection is fucking garbage. In one party I was the only one who voted for elite slayer and some d-bag said:
"WHO'S THE FAG THAT VOTED FOR ELITE SLAYER, GAWD."

Other than the annoying point blank stick I REALLY enjoy elite slayer and rate it higher than half the crap on the Rumble Pit right now. I swear to god every third person who plays this game is fucking STUPID. Hell half the people I've run into that are pricks typically have their nuke count from MW2. Honestly, go back to your shitty CoD and take your bad game habits with you; gtfo of my Halo.

Pooky
September 29th, 2010, 02:47 AM
Honestly, the more I play Reach MP the more I hate it. Playing right now with old Breaking Ben songs in the background. All it's doing is making me long for the old days of Halo CE.

Warsaw
September 29th, 2010, 03:00 AM
Well, at least Halo PC's multiplayer is still fairly active...

Pooky
September 29th, 2010, 03:17 AM
Well, at least Halo PC's multiplayer is still fairly active...

Yeah, but all the really good players have left. I tried playing Halo PC, it was full of shitty pirates who thought W+M1 with the Assault Rifle was a good idea. :\

Warsaw
September 29th, 2010, 03:47 AM
There are also an awful lot of modded servers now...

=sw=warlord
September 29th, 2010, 01:40 PM
I am seriously starting to enjoy the assassination moves...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKCzhzCV_kE

sevlag
September 29th, 2010, 02:23 PM
well seeing as how everyone is frothing at the mouth i'd like to point out a little exploit on new alexanderia involving the club errera easter egg

how to do this:

*proceed through the level till you get the way-point for the night club
* activate "never surrender" via the hidden switch close to the hospital
(optional)*go inside and listen to the music if you want
*while never surrender is playing kill the fuel rod grunts that are right next to the entrance, doing this ends the song and they get pissed at you
*run outside
*fly to the top of the building and activate "siege of madrigal"
*go back to the club

you'll notice upon exiting all covenant inside the club are "dancing" again, use this to your advantage and turn off the jammer
now here is where the exploit comes out, by following the steps, even after the jammer is deactivated/blown up, the covenant will KEEP "dancing".
i was literally able to walk in and out of the club on legendary without any hunter fight and any other fight after that (lost some health leaving the first time, but jsut enough that it regenerated back to full)

annihilation
September 29th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Who's the retard at Bungie who thought it would be a good idea to put SWAT on Hemorrhage!?
It doesn't help that I hate the DMR.

Limited
September 29th, 2010, 02:57 PM
Who's the retard at Bungie who thought it would be a good idea to put SWAT on Hemorrhage!?
It doesn't help that I hate the DMR.
Or Snipers on Countdown... WTF? That map is like Prisoner + Chiron in size.

Futzy
September 29th, 2010, 03:06 PM
shishka
ninja on fire is here to save us though

=sw=warlord
September 29th, 2010, 03:24 PM
shishka
ninja on fire is here to save us though
Shishka is no longer a bungie employee...

Futzy
September 29th, 2010, 03:51 PM
Shishka is no longer a bungie employee...
...
Thats why i said ninja on fire.
Shishka set up the launch playlists.
Ninja on fire was the H2 playlist overlord and is now back in command in reach.

Rentafence
September 29th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Anything on Hemorrhage is absolute shit. Halo is way too focused on long range weapons now compared to Halo 1.

DarkHalo003
September 29th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Who's the retard at Bungie who thought it would be a good idea to put SWAT on Hemorrhage!?
It doesn't help that I hate the DMR.
That's fixed in October. No need to panic about it. I hate SWAT too.

ejburke
September 29th, 2010, 06:01 PM
I'm sure Shishka wasn't some kind of playlist dictator. The whole studio was playing the game and I'm sure they had input. It's when the whole studio moves on to the next project and stop playing the game that the playlist guys are left to their own devices. But really, all they do is listen to feedback.

sevlag
September 29th, 2010, 06:02 PM
i have to agree with rent (quote button is slow in response time TBH)

but way to much focus on long range gameplay now...its sooo fucking slow compared to halo 1

Rob Oplawar
September 29th, 2010, 06:34 PM
I see a lot of people bitching and moaning in here that despite how this game plays extremely well for the vast majority of people, it "doesn't fit exactly with MY idea of how it should be!" I'm a proponent criticism, but y'all are taking it too far. If you don't like the melee strength on elites, play on an easier difficulty. If you don't like the pistol, don't use it. You have choices here. Stop bitching, you sound like you think Bungie only lives to serve your particular needs.

Futzy
September 29th, 2010, 06:43 PM
That's fixed in October. No need to panic about it. I hate SWAT too.
Tuesday is when it arrives

t3h m00kz
September 29th, 2010, 07:37 PM
swat rules

Arteen
September 29th, 2010, 07:44 PM
I see a lot of people bitching and moaning in here that despite how this game plays extremely well for the vast majority of people, it "doesn't fit exactly with MY idea of how it should be!"
Complaining about poor game design choices and inconsistencies with the difficulty levels compared to previous games sounds like fair criticism to me.


I'm a proponent criticism, but y'all are taking it too far.
I didn't know you were the authority on this sort of thing. Forgive me.


If you don't like the melee strength on elites, play on an easier difficulty.
So if I don't want to be killed at full shields and health by a melee attack, I should play on easy? Great advice.


If you don't like the pistol, don't use it. You have choices here.
The fact that I have alternatives doesn't make a weapon suddenly not bad, especially when it's a spawn weapon and otherwise prominently featured in the game. Magnums in Halo 2 were absolutely useless and ill-conceived and I avoided them just fine, but they were still absolutely useless and ill-conceived.


Stop bitching, you sound like you think Bungie only lives to serve your particular needs.
Come on. No one's expecting Bungie to go patch campaign and make everything better, or think that Bungie owes us more than just the continued functionality of the game.

EDIT: And the HBO forums are full of complaints, too. Lots of love, but also lots of criticism/ So it's not just a handful of old-time, disgruntled CE players on a failed Halo 2 Vista fansite.

t3h m00kz
September 29th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Anything on Hemorrhage is absolute shit. Halo is way too focused on long range weapons now compared to Halo 1.

I know halo 1 wasn't long range at all

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080907232944/halo/images/0/0c/1220830179_Pistol.png

Actually I liked coagulation more, SMG spawns on that map were teh best because fuck being able to kill people

Limited
September 29th, 2010, 08:12 PM
I love SWAT and Snipers. Snipers, if everyone has it, then it levels the playing field. Dont give me any BS about latency in SWAT either, I play against mostly Americans by the sound of their accents, and I have no issues kicking ass.

FRain
September 29th, 2010, 08:14 PM
So if I don't want to be killed at full shields and health by a melee attack, I should play on easy? Great advice.
.

Yes. And that's not sarcastic.

t3h m00kz
September 29th, 2010, 08:15 PM
they fixed latency issues. if you shoot someone, hit registers, regardless of lag. this is why two people can kill each other at the same time. I like it better that way, it's more fair than that whoever has the better connection bullshit

Compare a game of Shotguns in Reach to Halo 3. You'll see serious host advantage in 3, not in Reach

NotZac
September 29th, 2010, 09:04 PM
Fucking booting people because of accidental betrayals is completely stupid. I think anyone with an IQ above 80 should be able to figure out whether or not it's not purpose. And yet, somehow, when I'm in a Wraith, I boost, and some child drops down from the overhead platform into my path, killing himself basically, said child is going to boot me out of the game for that?

What the fuck?

Sigh. At least I got those multikill challenges done. So I win.

Cagerrin
September 29th, 2010, 09:12 PM
"anyone with an IQ above 80"

so, >0.3% of all XBL users who play Reach?

DarkHalo003
September 29th, 2010, 09:53 PM
I love SWAT and Snipers. Snipers, if everyone has it, then it levels the playing field. Dont give me any BS about latency in SWAT either, I play against mostly Americans by the sound of their accents, and I have no issues kicking ass.
Snipers is okay, but SWAT is annoying as hell. I'm mediocre at Reach's (was great at Halo 3's), but it being mixed in with the normal Team Slayer playlist is a little much. I'll reserve my further comments on SWAT for when it actually obtains its own playlist though.

NotZac
September 29th, 2010, 11:24 PM
so, >0.3% of all XBL users who play Reach?
Ugh, thanks for killing my exaggeration. fff

Kornman00
September 29th, 2010, 11:29 PM
Shishka is no longer a bungie employee...
This shit was brought up earlier and no one provided any backing to this claim. Where was it ever said from the horses' mouth that Shiska left/was let go?

ejburke
September 29th, 2010, 11:57 PM
His b.net forum handle went from gold to the normal gray. And his title was changed to "Exalted Mythic Member" from, presumably, a title that indicated he was a Bungie employee. Unless they caught him skeeting all over the new studio, I doubt he was fired. Maybe he left for 343.

jcap
September 30th, 2010, 12:09 AM
Guys, you are doing it all wrong!

I'm supposed to be the one pointing out the flaws in this game and hating on it! :maddowns:

You're supposed to disagree with me you faggots :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

k4is3rxkh40s
September 30th, 2010, 12:11 AM
Fucking booting people because of accidental betrayals is completely stupid. I think anyone with an IQ above 80 should be able to figure out whether or not it's not purpose. And yet, somehow, when I'm in a Wraith, I boost, and some child drops down from the overhead platform into my path, killing himself basically, said child is going to boot me out of the game for that?

What the fuck?

Sigh. At least I got those multikill challenges done. So I win.

Team snipers is worse imo. "You're going after that guy? Let me just strafe in front of you or just stop as you're shooting." Best part is it will headshot the teammate but totally miss the person being aimed at

Arteen
September 30th, 2010, 01:45 AM
Yes. And that's not sarcastic.
Yes, and that's not helpful.

Team Snipers in BTB would be so much better if it didn't last so long. Bungie should just limit it to 50 kills and not 75. There's fun to be had in the gametype, but there's not enough variety in the gametype to keep it interesting up to the end.

Rentafence
September 30th, 2010, 10:00 AM
I know halo 1 wasn't long range at all

Well yeah. Sans the pistol it wasn't. The pistol wasn't long range; sure it dominated at short to mid range, but beyond that it was too inaccurate to snipe from bg base to bg base with. Now, the DMR and Needle rifle are pinpoint accurate at all ranges.

ThePlague
September 30th, 2010, 10:00 AM
What seriously pisses me off is when someone on either team leaves, and the game still lags for an extra two minutes or whatever.

Limited
September 30th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Ha, GJ Bungie, making a daily challenge thats completely impossible to complete! (Bullet Proof - Complete 3 rounds in a Firefight Matchmaking game without dying).

There is no matchmaking gametype that even plays 3 rounds of Firefight..>_<

PlasbianX
September 30th, 2010, 11:01 AM
Ha, GJ Bungie, making a daily challenge thats completely impossible to complete! (Bullet Proof - Complete 3 rounds in a Firefight Matchmaking game without dying).

There is no matchmaking gametype that even plays 3 rounds of Firefight..>_<

lolz. Atleast you can do all of the others in score attack.

CabooseJr
September 30th, 2010, 11:55 AM
There goes my streak.

Arteen
September 30th, 2010, 12:09 PM
So apparently covies can get headshots on you, too. I was playing some Firefight, and I had full health and no shields, and a jackal with a needler rifle killed me with one shot to the face.

Lame. :saddowns:

ejburke
September 30th, 2010, 12:53 PM
Edit: looks like they fixed the Challenge. "Complete 1 Rounds in a Firefight Matchmaking game without dying."

Futzy
September 30th, 2010, 04:17 PM
This shit was brought up earlier and no one provided any backing to this claim. Where was it ever said from the horses' mouth that Shiska left/was let go?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chad-armstrong/3/b72/102
He's gone.

DarkHalo003
September 30th, 2010, 04:48 PM
So apparently covies can get headshots on you, too. I was playing some Firefight, and I had full health and no shields, and a jackal with a needler rifle killed me with one shot to the face.

Lame. :saddowns:
Don't be a baby. I think it's a great addition. It also, once again, reaffirms the idea that you can NOT run out and dog your enemies.

Warsaw
September 30th, 2010, 08:32 PM
Says you...:realsmug:.

MXC
October 1st, 2010, 12:36 AM
Just discovered Gruntpocolypse in Score attack. I think I found a new favorite gametype.


Also, this must be how everyone is leveling soo quickly. Bah, it's just an extra; I could play this gametype for days.

Futzy
October 1st, 2010, 01:31 PM
http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337551
all ranks
Recruit
Private - Awarded at 7,500 cR |
Corporal - Awarded at 10,000 cR |
Corporal Grade 1 - Awarded at 15,000 cR |
Sergeant - Awarded at 20,000 cR |
Sergeant Grade 1 - Awarded at 26,250 cR |
Sergeant Grade 2 - Awarded at 32,500 cR
Warrant Officer - Awarded at 45,000 cR
Warrant Officer Grade 1 - Awarded at 78,000 cR
Warrant Officer Grade 2 - Awarded at 111,000 cR
Warrant Officer Grade 3 - Awarded at 144,000 cR
Captain - Awarded at 210,000 cR
Captain Grade 1 - Awarded at 233000 cR
Captain Grade 2 - Awarded at 256,000 cR
Captain Grade 3 - Awarded at 279,000 cR
Major - Awarded at 325,000 cR
Major Grade 1 - Awarded at 350,000 cR
Major Grade 2 - Awarded at 375,000 cR
Major Grade 3 - Awarded at 400,000 cR
Lt. Colonel - Awarded at 450,000 cR
Lt. Colonel Grade 1 - Awarded at 480,000 cR
Lt. Colonel Grade 2 - Awarded at 510,000 cR
Lt. Colonel Grade 3 - Awarded at 540,000 cR
Commander Grade 1 - Awarded at 650,000 cR
Commander Grade 2 - Awarded at 700,000 cR
Commander Grade 3 - Awarded at 750,000
Colonel - Awarded at 850,000 cR
Colonel Grade 1 - Awarded at 960,000 cR
Colonel Grade 2 - Awarded at 1,070,000 cR
Colonel Grade 3 - Awarded at 1,180,000 cR
Brigadier - Awarded at 1,400,000 cR
Brigadier Grade 1 - Awarded at 1,520,000 cR
Brigadier Grade 2 - Awarded at 1,640,000 cR
Brigadier Grade 3 - Awarded at 1,760,000 cR
General - Awarded at 2,000,000 cR
General Grade 1 - Awarded at 2,200,000 cR
General Grade 2 - Awarded at 2,350,000 cR
General Grade 3 - Awarded at 2,500,000 cR
General Grade 4 - Awarded at 2,650,000 cR
Field Marshall - Awarded at 3,000,000 cR
Hero - Awarded at 3,700,000 cR
Legend - Awarded at 4,600,000 cR
Mythic - Awarded at 5,650,000 cR
Noble - Awarded at 7,000,000 cR
Eclipse - Awarded at 8,500,000 cR
Nova - Awarded at 11,000,000 cR
Forerunner - Awarded at 13,000,000 cR
Reclaimer - Awarded at 16,500,000 cR
Inheritor - Awarded at 20,000,000 cR

If you earned 20,000 credits a day you could get Inheritor in a measly 3 years!

Arteen
October 1st, 2010, 02:20 PM
Don't be a baby. I think it's a great addition. It also, once again, reaffirms the idea that you can NOT run out and dog your enemies.

"Don't be a baby"? Okay, I'll be a manly man make sure my shields never drop. Ever. And play every difficulty level like it's a war of attrition. Far be it from me to be upset when I die instantly to a projectile that 99% of the time does minor damage. Consistency is nice. It's Halo, not Rainbow 6.

=sw=warlord
October 1st, 2010, 02:26 PM
"Don't be a baby"? Okay, I'll be a manly man make sure my shields never drop. Ever. And play every difficulty level like it's a war of attrition. Far be it from me to be upset when I die instantly to a projectile that 99% of the time does minor damage. Consistency is nice. It's Halo, not Rainbow 6.
The needle rifle is consistent, you aim for the head on a unshielded enemy you get a head shot.
In the former Halo games if a jackal hit you in the head with a beam rifle they had the same chance of it being a 1SK as you had.

As for that inheritor rank, I am only thankful they didn't follow ensembles footsteps.

ICEE
October 1st, 2010, 02:46 PM
you can NOT run out and dog your enemies.

Then it is not halo.

ejburke
October 1st, 2010, 03:07 PM
If I were the designer, I wouldn't allow NR headshots from AI (especially because they have the supercombine threat), but there are plenty of other decisions and sources of cheap deaths that irk me more.

By the way, at what point do the Double cR weekends start happening? How many weeks or months in did it happen with Halo 3? I don't really care about rank, but I do want that Lt Colonel achievement.

And I wish Bungie would just come out and tell the people that have hit the cap that it's safe to play. That their commendations aren't going to be wasted. The point of the cap freeze was obviously not to force people to quit playing.

DarkHalo003
October 1st, 2010, 04:52 PM
"Don't be a baby"? Okay, I'll be a manly man make sure my shields never drop. Ever. And play every difficulty level like it's a war of attrition. Far be it from me to be upset when I die instantly to a projectile that 99% of the time does minor damage. Consistency is nice. It's Halo, not Rainbow 6.
That first phrase was sarcasm. I was joking. My bad for trying that on the internet.

But your assertions are very opinionated to the degree that you're saying that Bungie is a bad designer for their own game series when their ideas don't fit your desires. It's one of my many pet-peeves when it comes to people explaining their opinions. Yes, assertions are good for stand-alone essays, but on a quick-response forum it just makes you look whiny or bratty. We know you're not Arteen, but constant complaining that isn't in the form of a bug report sounds like a constant drone after a while. Besides, Bungie said for the longest time that this game was going to be fairly different than the rest. If you get good enough with the assets available in the game, you very well can go Rambo on all of the enemies on Heroic.

ThePlague
October 1st, 2010, 05:06 PM
If I play one more game of snipers on anything, i'm going to shoot myself.

ejburke
October 1st, 2010, 05:21 PM
To be fair, the guy that made most of these questionable decisions was a guy they brought in from FASA that worked on a whole bunch of "okay" stuff and never had anything to do with the series before Reach. So it's not like Arteen is second-guessing the guy who made Halo, he's second-guessing the guy who made MechAssault.

Not that Sage isn't a bright guy. These choices might be good choices for any series except Halo. When you start getting into discussions about % chances of things happening, when Halo is the one series that's always said, "Fuck it, if an Elite gets killed, the nearby Grunts will always lose their shit. No dice rolls needed", it feels like some pen-and-paper game and not a Halo game. To me, anyway.

jcap
October 1st, 2010, 05:55 PM
I quit playing because it just isn't fun to play slayer 24/7 anymore.

NotZac
October 1st, 2010, 07:27 PM
Can I have your Mark V?

Kornman00
October 1st, 2010, 08:35 PM
And I wish Bungie would just come out and tell the people that have hit the cap that it's safe to play. That their commendations aren't going to be wasted. The point of the cap freeze was obviously not to force people to quit playing.
So what's the status on this? Will the cR I earn now be reflected to my rank when the cap is increased/removed?

mech
October 1st, 2010, 09:24 PM
Snipers needs to be sectioned off into it's own division, just as SWAT is going to be. It's ridiculous playing all snipes with 16 people on some map not meant for it (spire for example, reflection..). Come to think of it, spire blows for anything but invasion. SWAT, oh boy swat, can't wait till it is in it's own play list.

Spartan094
October 1st, 2010, 09:27 PM
Oh snap.


Score Attack
Credit earn rates for Gruntpocalypse are being reduced to fall more in line with other modes.

Tsk tsk. Give it 10 days until it acutely starts to do this.

=sw=warlord
October 1st, 2010, 09:35 PM
If you’ve devised an ingeniously elaborate method to circumvent our credit cap or exploit our challenge system, all of your “hard work” is soon to be for naught. While we understand the compulsion to race to the top and earn all the good gear before any of your friends do, network manipulation and other easily detectable workarounds that fall well outside of standard gameplay will result in a credit reset and several other punitive measures designed to knock you back down to a level playing field with all the rest of us who are playing the game without having to resort to exploits. We're watching you.

Without calling attention to specific methods, here are a couple of examples to help you wrap your mind around what we consider acceptable behavior and what we consider the machinations of people with way too much time on their hands:

Example 1: Laziness is Next to Godliness
You’ve commissioned your little brother to play through the same section of ONI: Sword Base over and over again, wielding the Target Locator like a barbarian’s cudgel in a quest to hit your daily credit cap without ever having to lay a finger on the controller.

This is a little bit sad, but it is not an offense we’re going to punish. *You* are playing the game. Keep your credits (but please go easy on your little brother).

Example Deuce: Communication Breakdown
You’ve written a crafty piece of code in your spare time that plays the same section of ONI: Sword Base over and over, wielding the Target Locator like a mechanical death ray in a sad, robotic quest to hit your daily credit cap while you’re busy doing something that isn’t playing the game.

This is really sad and you can expect to have your credits wiped and your armor items reset (and you can possibly expect to be banned, depending on the severity of the manipulation). We’ve already got a sizable list of offenders gathered up and the Banhammer is being heaved high into the air as soon as this afternoon. Make your peace. You get no warning. We’ll see you on the forums real soon!


Hey kornman, I hope those commendation's worked out for you.:ohboy:

Ellis
October 1st, 2010, 09:41 PM
Anyone see the mass wave of resets coming out from Bungie? Looks like a lot of people are being handed credit resets and cR bans for a day o.O Even though I haven't cheated I'm still worried. o.o

Kornman00
October 1st, 2010, 10:05 PM
Hey kornman, I hope those commendation's worked out for you.:ohboy:
Hey warlord, I hope one day you'll stop being a grossly annoying brit. I think the only thing more annoying than you is your shoddy connection which doesn't work for anyone outside of the UK half the time.

There. I said it. :woop:

thehoodedsmack
October 1st, 2010, 10:06 PM
They're putting a lot of serious thought and effort into a purely aesthetic e-peen system.

What are credits used for? Ranking and purchasing armour.

Credits are not exactly awarded based on skill. A kill is a kill is a kill, and will get you credits. Given an infinite amount of time, every player would hit the maximum rank, though some faster than others.

The Halo: Reach customizable SPARTAN is nothing more than the hyper-male equivalent of a Barbie doll.

Subjectively, I think that without this time-consuming system, you'd find a drop in players. With their perfect SPARTAN realized, players would have no reason to continue playing as rigorously, and would probably spend more time playing locally or custom matches with friends. The Halo: Reach online experience isn't really that great. Neither is its offline, but at least with the latter you're free to create your own rules.

There are a lot better things that could be done than making it difficult for players to dress-up their characters.

ejburke
October 1st, 2010, 10:40 PM
Of course it's meaningless. If the credits earned you uberperks, it would still be meaningless. It would just be meaningless and shitty. People like to see some representation that their activity is being tracked, counted, and measured. That it isn't just disappearing into the ether.

There's also an addictive element, which is where Bungie has to take some responsibility. The credit and rank system was meant to give players a long-term goal, over years and years. It's not meant to be conquered in weeks or months. It's the equivalent of the government giving everyone a year's supply of Sudafed to treat seasonal allergies -- most would use it as intended, but some would use it to start a meth lab. They have to figure out some way to pump the brakes and keep everyone on the straight and narrow.

jcap
October 1st, 2010, 10:55 PM
Thankfully I'm not going to be getting kicked out of games so the other team can easily win and rank up anymore. And we'll probably never see any accounts being sold on ebay anymore, since you can't quickly boost your rank like you could in Halo 3.

Ellis
October 1st, 2010, 11:03 PM
Nah I'm sure there will not be boosting anymore in this game. I'm going to be on this game for years, but not by itself. I'm not giving up gaming for one game, that would be a joke. I also find it funny how many limitations they put on the cR system considering that all cR does is give you stuff to buy Armor with, and Armor doesn't effect gameplay at all. A Daily cR limit, Weekly cR limit and finally a Rank cap at Lt. Col Grade 3? Pretty silly to be honest with you, and I'm waiting for the rank cap to be lifted, especially considering how many more ranks there are after this... =\

Arteen
October 1st, 2010, 11:51 PM
The needle rifle is consistent, you aim for the head on a unshielded enemy you get a head shot.
In the former Halo games if a jackal hit you in the head with a beam rifle they had the same chance of it being a 1SK as you had.
It's inconsistent in that 99% of the time, you can run around in the middle of the map taking NR shots with only a small health loss from each hit. That other 1% of the time, bam, you're dead. You can still go rambo on enemies, but if you hit the bad luck lottery through no fault of your own, you die. The beam rifle is different because it's supposed to kill in two hits, every time. You always know exactly how much damage it will do to you if it hits you.

ejburke
October 1st, 2010, 11:57 PM
They aren't capping things because the rewards are valuable and need to be protected. They are capping things because people need to be protected from themselves. Trying to grind rank will do nothing but burn you out on the game and seeing so many high-rank players so quickly will discourage the people who are playing at the intended pace.

I don't understand how they're going to nerf Gruntpocalypse. Most of the earn in that mode comes from Commendations. All they can really do is turn the base "match complete" cR down to 60.

DarkHalo003
October 2nd, 2010, 12:11 AM
They aren't capping things because the rewards are valuable and need to be protected. They are capping things because people need to be protected from themselves. Trying to grind rank will do nothing but burn you out on the game and seeing so many high-rank players so quickly will discourage the people who are playing at the intended pace.

I don't understand how they're going to nerf Gruntpocalypse. Most of the earn in that mode comes from Commendations. All they can really do is turn the base "match complete" cR down to 60.
This is true. I think they might change the difficulty to Normal because you earn more commendations through Heroic than easier difficulties.

Go to the Bungie.net forums. Shit is going down pretty crazily over there with the challenge resetters getting rank resets. It's kind of funny, especially when you're not one of the glitch exploiters. This, of course, does not include Checkpoint camping nor Gruntpocalypse, but you should watch out if you get close to the same credits every game you play of Campaign.

ejburke
October 2nd, 2010, 12:43 AM
Uh oh, I have about 30 Forge sessions where I earned exactly 60 cR each. I am in trouble.

E: Spooky, my spendable credits total 117117. Banned?

=sw=warlord
October 2nd, 2010, 09:02 AM
Hey warlord, I hope one day you'll stop being a grossly annoying brit. I think the only thing more annoying than you is your shoddy connection which doesn't work for anyone outside of the UK half the time.

There. I said it. :woop:

Hey korn, You mad?
My ISP package is fine, just it decides to take a crap over you once a while, I have no problems connecting with any other people on my friends list and before you say it, there are only about 5 people in my list of 40 who are from the UK.
Sorry but you're going to need to come back with a better excuse.:haw:

Pooky
October 2nd, 2010, 05:35 PM
I am sick to death of the massively overpowered and completely unskilled melee attacks in this game. If someone runs up on you and throws a melee attack before you get enough shots into them, you have virtually no chance for survival. Then there's Sprint, which makes melee attacks 5x more annoying than they would be otherwise. Half the time if feels more like I'm playing a fucking zombie game, trying to hold a hardpoint agaist the melee rushing faggots.

God this game is terrible.


e: and just like I knew they would, profags use the female Spartan with black EVA visor, because it's visually so much smaller than the male, and that visor blends in with fucking everything.

=sw=warlord
October 2nd, 2010, 05:43 PM
Anyone seen all the bawwing over at B.net? (http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=49997802&postRepeater1-p=1)


RocketMoose | Bungie Team



ZXO Ganjahero:
I never abused. I want unban this instant bungie.


Most people don't get to complete the same challenge 21 times in a single day.

DarkHalo003
October 2nd, 2010, 05:51 PM
I am sick to death of the massively overpowered and completely unskilled melee attacks in this game. If someone runs up on you and throws a melee attack before you get enough shots into them, you have virtually no chance for survival. Then there's Sprint, which makes melee attacks 5x more annoying than they would be otherwise. Half the time if feels more like I'm playing a fucking zombie game, trying to hold a hardpoint agaist the melee rushing faggots.

God this game is terrible.


e: and just like I knew they would, profags use the female Spartan with black EVA visor, because it's visually so much smaller than the male, and that visor blends in with fucking everything.
Way to assert how bad a game is based off of how one thing affects YOU. And I honestly can't tell apart from the two player models, even with the visors. Honestly I just shoot anything that turns read till it drops and aim higher when I have a precision weapon. Of course, I play Invasion a lot, so I'm accustomed to trying to find every advantage in a battle at every second.

I've only seen you and maybe one other person complain about melee between this and the Bungie.net forums, so if you want a melee fix you'll have to raise enough hell and support to do so over there. Only advice I can give you that will probably not be shoved back in my face because you've tried other options. Just look at this way: It's not nearly as bad as Halo 3's melee system at least.

Pooky
October 2nd, 2010, 06:16 PM
Way to assert how bad a game is based off of how one thing affects YOU. And I honestly can't tell apart from the two player models, even with the visors. Honestly I just shoot anything that turns read till it drops and aim higher when I have a precision weapon. Of course, I play Invasion a lot, so I'm accustomed to trying to find every advantage in a battle at every second.

I've only seen you and maybe one other person complain about melee between this and the Bungie.net forums, so if you want a melee fix you'll have to raise enough hell and support to do so over there. Only advice I can give you that will probably not be shoved back in my face because you've tried other options. Just look at this way: It's not nearly as bad as Halo 3's melee system at least.

Every person I know who plays this game thinks the melee attacks are garbage, most don't speak out about it.

Thing is, the melee isn't going to affect you as much when you're playing primarily big team games on large maps (Invasion), but melee whoring is the entire game on small team Slayer and objective matches. It takes no skill to use, it gets your shield off instantly, everyone can use it infinitely, and the only real counter to it is to have a Shotgun (since Sword gets blocked by melee), or kill people before they get close enough (zombie game).

So yes, the multiplayer in Reach is horrible.





e: this isn't related to my main argument, but you strike me as one of those people who think all bad design choices are okay because 'the developers intended it that way'. Sorry, but that's not a valid excuse, especially when considering the longevity of a mutiplayer game over many years. I'm already losing interest in Reach simply because the competitive modes pander to unskilled players, and there's no reward in gameplay terms for being legitimatelly better than your opposition.

"Why bother learning to aim", the newbs say. "I can just sprint-double melee people with no effort at all".

Ellis
October 2nd, 2010, 06:19 PM
In love with this game, the Sprint rush double melee gets old after awhile but it isn't something I encounter often enough to bother me. When I do encounter it, I make sure to punish them after it works the first time. I especially love it when I come back and Assassinate them. It definitely is the new t-bag, but the old way is also good. ;)

Pooky
October 2nd, 2010, 06:27 PM
In love with this game, the Sprint rush double melee gets old after awhile but it isn't something I encounter often enough to bother me. When I do encounter it, I make sure to punish them after it works the first time. I especially love it when I come back and Assassinate them. It definitely is the new t-bag, but the old way is also good. ;)

You must get way better matches than me, virtually every game I go into is filled with this crap :\

ThePlague
October 2nd, 2010, 06:46 PM
My biggest annoyances, other than my shit internet connection, is the game-types and the whoring.

-Gametypes: I usually play Team Slayer, Arena Slayer, or BTB. Pretty much all of the games in Team Slayer are either Swat or Snipers. Now, i'm okay with Swat on some maps (Sword Base), but with maps like Hemorrhage and Reflection, Swat is shit on it.
I pretty much hate Snipers on anything unless Hemorrhage, because it's the only one actually big enough to compensate for a legit game. Any other maps (Reflection...) is complete shit.
BTB is pretty much only a slayer or CTF worthy game setting. What the hell is the point of playing shit like BTB Snipers on anything, or BTB Headhunter on Countdown? The maps aren't made for that sort of thing, even if they 'support them'

-Whoring: Yeah, there's always whoring in every Halo, but in this one it's all the worse.
- Weapon Whoring: We've talked about this in other posts, but I just want to put my own 2 cents into the mix. On maps like Boardwalk, one team has an advantage over the other, depending on where they spawn. One team can get to the Sniper, Rocket Launcher, and Plasma Launcher before the other. And the opposite team is left with the Needle Rifle, and a fucking shotgun. Seems a little unbalanced, to say the least.
- Area Whoring: Now, this is pretty much only related to one map, that everyone seems to love, Reflection. I don't recall this level being as shit as it is not back in Halo 2. If you can get to that top area before the other team, you're pretty much guaranteed to win. It has 3 choke points, and all of which are easy to defend with grenades, shotguns, and snipers. Which seem to spawn in the rough area of that location.
Yes, there are other area whoring maps in this game (Sword Base, Boardwalk, Pinnacle, and even Countdown), but those aren't half as bad as Reflection.

This game isn't terrible, but it's certainly not worth playing for hours on end. Until they fix it, it's pretty much a ragefest.

MXC
October 2nd, 2010, 06:54 PM
I absolutely love when I manage to double melee kill MLG sniper wannabes. Also, the assassinations in Reach are the most satisfying way to take someone out that I've ever encountered in any game. The best part for me is going back to theater and watch the animation frame-by-frame from every angle, over and over again. It's like covering someone with piss in TF2.

With the exception of TF2, I've never been much of a long range combat sort of guy, anyway.


And maybe I'm not playing Team Slayer enough, but if people are picking snipers and SWAT over and over again, I just switch to Firefight or BTB.

But I must say that that chokepoint in Swordbase is as annoying as hell.

Arteen
October 2nd, 2010, 06:55 PM
I've only seen you and maybe one other person complain about melee between this and the Bungie.net forums,
Even Bungie admitted it was broken in the beta. Unfortunately, increasing the melee delay from 25 frames to 30 really doesn't make much of a difference, and it's still an issue. A better system, IMO, would be for the melee to do 60-80% shield damage. That way, you can double melee to kill an injured opponent, but you can't just sprint up to someone and kill them in a second.

Ellis
October 2nd, 2010, 07:09 PM
You must get way better matches than me, virtually every game I go into is filled with this crap :\

Maybe, I almost never play without a full team of 4 or a full team of 8 friends depending on the gametype, IE Team Slayer or BTB, and I rarely see the sprint double melee. Those are the kids I totally destroy though. I love the ones who talk shit too, got a sweet pic up in the Screenshots of a game winning kill I got on a team that was shit talking my friends. :D

Spartan094
October 2nd, 2010, 09:28 PM
I agree with Pooky about the melee. I hate it when I play a snipers game and the enemy has garbage people and when they are like 50 feet away, they will charge you with a pistol, melee, shoot, or vis versa.

I also made it to my Major, yes!

Ellis
October 2nd, 2010, 09:34 PM
Sorry to tell you Spartan but I do that in Snipers most of the time. I don't play BTB or Team Slayer to play Snipers or Swat. So I get back at the people who vote for it by doing that. :P I'll be happy when those are both moved to their own playlist.

DarkHalo003
October 2nd, 2010, 10:48 PM
Even Bungie admitted it was broken in the beta. Unfortunately, increasing the melee delay from 25 frames to 30 really doesn't make much of a difference, and it's still an issue. A better system, IMO, would be for the melee to do 60-80% shield damage. That way, you can double melee to kill an injured opponent, but you can't just sprint up to someone and kill them in a second.
Well I'm not saying I wouldn't welcome the change. I'm almost down for anything as long as it's better than Halo 1's no-lunge melee and Halo3's health-melee-system. I'm just saying that no massive changes will occur unless people bring this to light. And Big time too.

People also need to play more Invasion and BTB. I think Invasion is especially under-appreciated in terms of how fun it is and how the game is represented. The only problems with it are Sudden Death mess-ups, the Tank on Boneyard spawns way too soon after being destroyed (3x in one game? Seriously....), the Elite Ranger class is almost negligible, and the offensive team can always be spawn-attacked in some sort of fashion if the defending team so chooses for the first phase. However, most of those can easily be oversighted as most are negligible in their own rights. Sudden Death is being fixed for October, the Tank is easy to neutralize granted you have Plasma Grenades and Plasma Pistols, and the spawn-attacks aren't that big of a deal mainly because the spawn zones are diverse enough to prevent such whoring. The most obnoxious aspect though, especially in the first phase, is not having thicker ID tags above your teammates to see where they are so you know that they're at least trying.

MXC
October 2nd, 2010, 11:24 PM
Sorry to tell you Spartan but I do that in Snipers most of the time. I don't play BTB or Team Slayer to play Snipers or Swat. So I get back at the people who vote for it by doing that. :P I'll be happy when those are both moved to their own playlist.
*high-five*


Another question: isn't Blood Gulch too large for just 8 people playing CTF? All a team needs is a good enough tank driver and you have a stalemate.

Limited
October 2nd, 2010, 11:29 PM
Arent they taking the tank out of CTF, or was that other gametype?

Darqeness
October 3rd, 2010, 12:17 AM
I think they're just taking it out of Blood Gulch in all gametypes. I don't think they're replacing it in other maps though.

ejburke
October 3rd, 2010, 12:24 AM
I've always scoffed at "perks", but maybe a perk where your Spartan reversed the second melee attack into an assassination animation would help curb the issue. Never going to happen, just thinking out loud.

PlasbianX
October 3rd, 2010, 01:19 AM
Question. Im about to start a solo legendary run though for the achievement. I wanna know if daily challenges will affect my achievement or not. What i mean is, like say I get to mission 8 and I have been playing straight legendary. Can I say, do a challenge thats on mission 2 on heroic, then start mission 8 again and finish and still get my achievement?

Teltaur
October 3rd, 2010, 01:29 AM
Yeah, the achievement's just based on if you've completed each level on Legendary, not on what order you completed them.

NotZac
October 3rd, 2010, 01:30 AM
Question. Im about to start a solo legendary run though for the achievement. I wanna know if daily challenges will affect my achievement or not. What i mean is, like say I get to mission 8 and I have been playing straight legendary. Can I say, do a challenge thats on mission 2 on heroic, then start mission 8 again and finish and still get my achievement?
That should be fine. I basically understood that achievement as "beat every level on Legendary in some fashion, replaying a previous mission is coo tho."

*Edit: Snaked? fff rage

TeeKup
October 3rd, 2010, 06:17 AM
I'm starting to love BTB. Hemorrhage is where it's at. I can do ridiculous amounts of damage with the scorpion, I don't see how changing it to the wraith is making it better, the wraith can be devastating in it's own right when you know how to use it.

sevlag
October 3rd, 2010, 08:59 AM
I agree with Pooky about the melee. I hate it when I play a snipers game and the enemy has garbage people and when they are like 50 feet away, they will charge you with a pistol, melee, shoot, or vis versa.

I also made it to my Major, yes!
congrats... im an lt colonel...get on my farming level son

anyways i suck it up in BTB when it comes to snipers on like spire. I normally get to the top and wait for the enemy team to set up

98% of the time they are scoped in or not listening, and TBH nothing is more satisfying than a triple assassination

also since voice is proximity by default, does anyone here ever say anything catchy when they like board a vehicle or assassinate an enemy who is by himself, or am I the only one?

Pooky
October 3rd, 2010, 01:28 PM
So, after playing this game a while longer, adding this to my list of balance fixes

- I'm not a huge fan of the new vehicle health system, but I can see where it's useful in gameplay terms. That said, there's nothing more gay for a new player than to get into what seems to be a heavily armored tank, only to die from 2 assault rifle bullets. First off, if we're going to have vehicle health, we need to have a vehicle health bar. No one can argue that the health of your vehicle is vital gameplay information, and there's no reason to hide vital information from players unless you're fucking retarded or something. Second, the vehicle health should regenerate up to certain thresholds, the same as player health. That way you can have a damaged tank, or a heavily damaged tank, but not one that dies in 2 bullets.

ejburke
October 3rd, 2010, 01:42 PM
I thought vehicle health does regenerate similar to base health. People would have problems completing New Alexandria if the Falcon's health was static. Are you sure that tank wasn't fresh off a beating when you hopped in?

Anybody try the indestructible vehicle setting in the options? How does that work? Does it make them impossible to take down or does it work like in Halo 1 where you can get the kill and claim the prize?

Arteen
October 3rd, 2010, 01:48 PM
Teekup and I tried indestructible vehicles with his Hijack gametype. I don't know about the other vehicles, but the tank and banshee drivers don't take any damage. It's lame.

MXC
October 3rd, 2010, 01:55 PM
So, after playing this game a while longer, adding this to my list of balance fixes

- I'm not a huge fan of the new vehicle health system, but I can see where it's useful in gameplay terms. That said, there's nothing more gay for a new player than to get into what seems to be a heavily armored tank, only to die from 2 assault rifle bullets. First off, if we're going to have vehicle health, we need to have a vehicle health bar. No one can argue that the health of your vehicle is vital gameplay information, and there's no reason to hide vital information from players unless you're fucking retarded or something. Second, the vehicle health should regenerate up to certain thresholds, the same as player health. That way you can have a damaged tank, or a heavily damaged tank, but not one that dies in 2 bullets.

Soo...you want an energy shield on a tank?

ejburke
October 3rd, 2010, 01:57 PM
That's what I was afraid of. If people could take down a Banshee with an assault rifle and then hop in themselves, people would be less inclined to complain about Banshees. Everything has just been downhill since Halo PC. Disappointment after disappointment.

Arteen
October 3rd, 2010, 02:18 PM
Soo...you want an energy shield on a tank?
It worked in Halo 3!

p0lar_bear
October 3rd, 2010, 02:36 PM
Soo...you want an energy shield on a tank?

No. You ever notice how if you take just one or two bars of health damage, it regenerates back to full when your shields recharge? But, if you lose more than 50% of your health, it doesn't do that? That's what he's looking for. It's discouraging as all hell to have finally killed the person that just racked up an Untouchable in the tank while leaving it mostly intact, only to get in it and have it die from about half a magazine of DMR spam.

Sure, if you don't expect the tank to die quickly while it's on fire, there's something wrong with you. However, finding a motherfucking tank regardless of condition and not being allowed to get at least two or three kills with it because it has a mere 1 hit point left and will die from some random AR burst form across the map that wasn't aimed at you is flat-out bullshit.

Warsaw
October 3rd, 2010, 02:52 PM
Every person I know who plays this game thinks the melee attacks are garbage, most don't speak out about it.

Thing is, the melee isn't going to affect you as much when you're playing primarily big team games on large maps (Invasion), but melee whoring is the entire game on small team Slayer and objective matches. It takes no skill to use, it gets your shield off instantly, everyone can use it infinitely, and the only real counter to it is to have a Shotgun (since Sword gets blocked by melee), or kill people before they get close enough (zombie game).

So yes, the multiplayer in Reach is horrible.





e: this isn't related to my main argument, but you strike me as one of those people who think all bad design choices are okay because 'the developers intended it that way'. Sorry, but that's not a valid excuse, especially when considering the longevity of a mutiplayer game over many years. I'm already losing interest in Reach simply because the competitive modes pander to unskilled players, and there's no reward in gameplay terms for being legitimatelly better than your opposition.

"Why bother learning to aim", the newbs say. "I can just sprint-double melee people with no effort at all".

This is the same shit I've been complaining about since Halo 2, and yet people (including some here on this forum) shot me down for being an oldfag about it. Now here we are at the final game with the same problem, and people are starting to seeing the light. Late much?

Rentafence
October 3rd, 2010, 05:23 PM
What's all this complaining about skill? It's a fucking video game. If you play for fun you've already won.

Pooky
October 3rd, 2010, 05:29 PM
I thought vehicle health does regenerate similar to base health. People would have problems completing New Alexandria if the Falcon's health was static. Are you sure that tank wasn't fresh off a beating when you hopped in?

Anybody try the indestructible vehicle setting in the options? How does that work? Does it make them impossible to take down or does it work like in Halo 1 where you can get the kill and claim the prize?

Pretty sure it doesn't. When I played New Alexandria on Legendary, my Falcon took a huge hit from a fuel rod right off the bat. I completed most of the rest of the level without taking damage, but when I got to the end segment, I died from 3 shade bolts with full health. Of course, if the game had vehicle health bars, we would know for sure.


What's all this complaining about skill? It's a fucking video game. If you play for fun you've already won.

That's not even a real argument. Reach multiplayer is a competitive game. Competitive as in, players competing against eachother to determine who is the best based on skill, strategy, and teamwork.

When nothing takes skill, and the only strategy is camping with non-respawning power weapons, the game turns into a free for all where anyone can do as good as anyone else. Thus, it becomes uninteresting as a competitive platform.

thehoodedsmack
October 3rd, 2010, 05:32 PM
There was a vehicle health-bar in Halo:CE Campaign, wasn't there? I remember it being there for the Ghost and Banshee at least. I wonder why they took out such a nice feature.

SonicXtreme
October 3rd, 2010, 05:34 PM
I must admit I am getting annoyed with double melee faggots all the time , just sprint melee and boom Im dead :/

DarkHalo003
October 3rd, 2010, 05:48 PM
I can agree that the Vehicle Health (at least for tanks and banshees) is a load of bull. If anything, they should just have the tank's material impervious to common weapons (like the DMR, AR, Plasma Repeater etc.) The Banshee should be damageable by all weapons, but not incurr so much damage from the sniper. It takes only 3-4 shots from a Sniper Rifle to kill a Banshee. If I hop in, I already have to worry about Plasma Pistols, Plasma Grenades, Tanks, Warthogs, Small Arms from the ground after a while, Rockets, and the Splazer. The last thing I need to be destroyed by is the Sniper Rifle too.

Pooky
October 3rd, 2010, 05:49 PM
There was a vehicle health-bar in Halo:CE Campaign, wasn't there? I remember it being there for the Ghost and Banshee at least. I wonder why they took out such a nice feature.

Yes, it was there for the Ghost and Banshee, but strangely not for the Warthog or Scorpion (which were invincible). Halo 1 also had health bars for your passengers, another feature I really wish they would bring back.


If I hop in, I already have to worry about Plasma Pistols, Plasma Grenades, Tanks, Warthogs, Small Arms from the ground after a while, Rockets, and the Splazer. The last thing I need to be destroyed by is the Sniper Rifle too.

At one point when I was playing Invasion on Spire, some guy hopped in the Banshee while I was sniping. I immediately shot him 4 times with the Sniper and he exploded. It was a load of shit.

I'm glad that the sniper can finally damage vehicles (and thank god we can headshot the driver out of the tank again), but I do feel that the damage taken is a bit excessive.


e: also, I don't understand why the Warthog got such a heavy nerfing compared to previous games. Now the Warthog is practically useless in any situation where enemies have sticky grenades, heavy weapons, EMP weapons, other vehicles, or the sniper rifle. The chaingun does very little damage and has a range comparable to throwing rocks. Change the hog back to how it was in Halo 3, it was perfect in that game.

Rentafence
October 3rd, 2010, 06:57 PM
That's not even a real argument. Reach multiplayer is a competitive game. Competitive as in, players competing against eachother to determine who is the best based on skill, strategy, and teamwork.

When nothing takes skill, and the only strategy is camping with non-respawning power weapons, the game turns into a free for all where anyone can do as good as anyone else. Thus, it becomes uninteresting as a competitive platform.

Since when is multilayer gaming about being the best? The only reason Halo has a "competitive" aura around it is because of MLG faggots that don't know how to play a game for fun. And what's wrong with everyone being as good as everyone else? The game is boring as fuck when you're severely outclassed by who you're playing against.

Spartan094
October 3rd, 2010, 06:58 PM
I must admit I am getting annoyed with double melee faggots all the time , just sprint melee and boom Im dead :/

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Brandon094/I-dont-always-double-melee-But-when-I-do-shit-goes-down.jpg This is also for Pooky. :realsmug:

BUT yeah it pisses me off, Anything with the word PRO in the playlist there is some god damn faggot double meleeing you.

FRain
October 3rd, 2010, 07:02 PM
To be honest, as long as I stick with Invasion and BTB, I have only ONCE had a problem with a double melee faggot.

Futzy
October 3rd, 2010, 07:03 PM
IM SO MAD A BUNGLE

ejburke
October 3rd, 2010, 07:50 PM
Pretty sure it doesn't. When I played New Alexandria on Legendary, my Falcon took a huge hit from a fuel rod right off the bat. I completed most of the rest of the level without taking damage, but when I got to the end segment, I died from 3 shade bolts with full health. Of course, if the game had vehicle health bars, we would know for sure.Yeah, I mean that it has a basement level of health that it snaps back to. It's just not very much. 3-4 shots. But I'm pretty sure it never got to the point where 1 shot could kill me.

MXC
October 3rd, 2010, 07:50 PM
Was there any particular reason that the passenger health display wasn't in Halo 1's multiplayer?


Since when is multilayer gaming about being the best? The only reason Halo has a "competitive" aura around it is because of MLG faggots that don't know how to play a game for fun. And what's wrong with everyone being as good as everyone else? The game is boring as fuck when you're severely outclassed by who you're playing against.

I completely agree.

I've been playing on the same TF2 server for the past two years. Why, becasue of the competitiveness? The unlocks? No, because it's nothing but a bunch of drunks(including the moderators) who talk about things that don't make any sense, play completely retarded audio, sing karaoke and occasionally blow everyone up. When people actually stop singing and play, everyone is as good as everyone else.


If I want to be competitive I'll jump into the Arena or Firefight, but if I just want to have some fun, I'll hop into BTB or Team Objectives. I don't give two shits about my kill/death ratio, or the fact that I would be more productive if I didn't try to sneak a mongoose through a cave in Blood Gulch. If I turn out to be on top of the leaderboard, cool, if I'm on the bottom, I shrug it off and get back in. The "Pro's" out there are complete douchebags who bitch and moan and leave if they are so much as two points behind the other team. At the end of the game, win or lose, I still get my credits.

Pooky
October 3rd, 2010, 08:05 PM
Since when is multilayer gaming about being the best? The only reason Halo has a "competitive" aura around it is because of MLG faggots that don't know how to play a game for fun. And what's wrong with everyone being as good as everyone else? The game is boring as fuck when you're severely outclassed by who you're playing against.

Whenever you go into a non cooperative multiplayer game, like it or not, you are competing with the other players. Whether you go into the game just trying to have fun, or determined to win, the experience is still fundamentally competitive.

If you're getting matched up against people who completely outclass you, the solution is to get better. The entire point of the matchmaking system is to prevent lopsided matches, but they're still going to happen regardless.

Right now, none of that matters. If you can camp with heavy weapons and double melee, you can win at small team infantry games on Reach. There's no incentive to improve, and so competitive multiplayer on these maps is largely pointless. Big team multiplayer does have much better gameplay, but it's still heavily flawed.

Darqeness
October 3rd, 2010, 08:05 PM
I reckon it started in Halo 2 when ranks and global leaderboards were first introduced. As soon as a player ranking system is implemented it instantly turns the game competitive. I think it was a great idea on Bungie's part to have invisible trueskill ranking so it really doesn't matter whether you win or lose, you can just have fun without worrying about your rank going down. And the arena is a great outlet for people who like that kind of thing. That being said, I have not touched arena at all since launch and I really don't intend to. I tend to find the more casual, fun-seeking players like me tend to be found in invasion more than any playlist.

DEElekgolo
October 3rd, 2010, 08:15 PM
Hey guys, I came here to say that I am enjoying this video game and am having no problems with its gameplay or ranking system.

Pooky
October 3rd, 2010, 08:18 PM
Good job, enjoy your purchase.

Despite everything I'm saying here, I don't hate Reach, Bungie, or any of you. I find Reach to be a very enjoyable game for the most part, it just needs some relatively minor tweaks to really perfect the gameplay.

Timo
October 3rd, 2010, 08:19 PM
Annoyances aside i'm finding Reach pretty enjoyable overall, provided i'm playing with mates. It's nice when you win 75% of your games :]

ejburke
October 3rd, 2010, 08:24 PM
There's so much bullshit you have to know to be good at a Halo game these days. I really don't want to have to understand the game on such a trivial level. I'd just rather not play with the people who have the spawn times memorized or know exactly how their frag grenade is going to bounce.

Rentafence
October 3rd, 2010, 08:24 PM
Whenever you go into a non cooperative multiplayer game, like it or not, you are competing with the other players. Whether you go into the game just trying to have fun, or determined to win, the experience is still fundamentally competitive.

If you're getting matched up against people who completely outclass you, the solution is to get better. The entire point of the matchmaking system is to prevent lopsided matches, but they're still going to happen regardless.

Right now, none of that matters. If you can camp with heavy weapons and double melee, you can win at small team infantry games on Reach. There's no incentive to improve, and so competitive multiplayer on these maps is largely pointless. Big team multiplayer does have much better gameplay, but it's still heavily flawed.

Well, ya of course going into a non cooperative game is competitive. Team red vs team blue is competitive because they're fighting against each other. That doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is competitive as in "HOPPY SHIT THIS GAME IS ALL BOUT HARDCORE TOURNAMENT"

It's a fucking game brosef. I play it to have fun and waste time. I don't want to "improve". I don't give a fuck if people camp or double melee. The game itself is pointless. It's a tv screen.

I play for fun. I've already won.

p0lar_bear
October 3rd, 2010, 09:14 PM
Well, ya of course going into a non cooperative game is competitive. Team red vs team blue is competitive because they're fighting against each other. That doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is competitive as in "HOPPY SHIT THIS GAME IS ALL BOUT HARDCORE TOURNAMENT"

It's a fucking game brosef. I play it to have fun and waste time. I don't want to "improve". I don't give a fuck if people camp or double melee. The game itself is pointless. It's a tv screen.

I play for fun. I've already won.

We too, play for fun. However, the game ain't really fun when your enemies repeatedly abuse cheapshit tactics to kill you faster than you can realize what's going on and/or do anything about it. "It's not about whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game," and to be frank, everyone's playing it like a bunch of profags. Why are there sprint-double-melee abusers, countless jetpack fanboys, teabaggers, and people strafing back and forth constantly while spamming the crouch button with a DMR in the non-arena playlists with my psych profile set to "good time?" I still swear I encounter less MLGprowannabe jerkoffs in the Arena when I go in there alone.

Rentafence
October 3rd, 2010, 09:30 PM
So do the same shit back. Gosh.

annihilation
October 3rd, 2010, 09:36 PM
Unfortunately, video games never work in our favor.

Ifafudafi
October 3rd, 2010, 09:37 PM
The danger of opening up a game to everybody on the planet is that you end up with a bunch of kids and MLG wannabes and such, and there's really no online system in the world that can properly screen those faggots out while still preserving the core game, Halo or otherwise. Even trueskill doesn't work well, at least for me: I'll play a game and wreck some shit, causing me to get bumped up with a bunch of MLGwb fags; I then get my shit royally wrecked and end up back with some loser kids, and so on and so forth. I still haven't found the happy medium.

Halo's never been balanced, despite what anybody may tell you; the heavies, tanks, 2-melees, and such are what make it so popular and so accessible. The fact that any kid can get 4+ easy kills with the RL is by design, and "cheap" tactics and weapons have defined Halo's MP since the Pistol in H1. That's why, personally, I think Reach Halo works best when you're playing with people you know, whether it's just making a party in MM or doing some Custom Games. Since the game can't screen idiots, doing so yourself is really the best way of avoiding all of that, and an unbalanced partyfest becomes much more fun and much more tolerable when you take that "I'm competing with strangers" edge off of it.

The danger of opening up a game to everybody on the planet is that you end up with a bunch of kids and MLG wannabes and such, and there's really no online system in the world that can properly screen those faggots out while still preserving the core game. Even trueskill doesn't work well, at least for me: I'll play a game and wreck some shit, causing me to get bumped up with a bunch of MLG fags; I then get my shit royally wrecked and end up back with some loser kids, and so on and so forth. I still haven't found the happy medium.

That's if you just want to have fun, though; if you want Credits, then you better be ready to spend a lot of time in Score Attack

DarkHalo003
October 3rd, 2010, 09:38 PM
I hate teabagging-enemies. It was funny at first (I mean like, Halo3 Beta), but now it's just arrogant and stupid. Now if they Special Assassinate me, it's okay mainly because it's fair game and just looks badass.

Rentafence
October 3rd, 2010, 09:54 PM
I hate teabagging-enemies. It was funny at first (I mean like, Quake), but now it's just arrogant and stupid.

Ftfy

SonicXtreme
October 3rd, 2010, 10:19 PM
Most fun game type so far? , for me its team headhunt/ Big Team Head Hunt , so damn funny when skulls are flying all over the place.

Pooky
October 3rd, 2010, 11:12 PM
Played some more Team Slayer today.

In small team Slayer, the only strategy really is camping with heavy weapons. If your team has the heavy weapons and you're camping, victory is pretty much assured.
If the other team has heavy weapons and is camping, there's little you can do. A coordinated team camping with heavy weapons is virtually unbreakable, and there is no counter. Yesterday when we were in Slayer DMRs on gulch, I managed to get the other team's sniper rifle. I used it until there was one shot left, then switched to DMR. Our team was still sniping, but the other sniper never respawned. The enemies were getting destroyed completely and they had no hope of ever recovering.

Team Slayer in Reach really is complete garbage. Guess it's just Big Team and Invasion from now on.

Ellis
October 4th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Played some more Team Slayer today.

In small team Slayer, the only strategy really is camping with heavy weapons. If your team has the heavy weapons and you're camping, victory is pretty much assured.
If the other team has heavy weapons and is camping, there's little you can do. A coordinated team camping with heavy weapons is virtually unbreakable, and there is no counter. Yesterday when we were in Slayer DMRs on gulch, I managed to get the other team's sniper rifle. I used it until there was one shot left, then switched to DMR. Our team was still sniping, but the other sniper never respawned. The enemies were getting destroyed completely and they had no hope of ever recovering.

Team Slayer in Reach really is complete garbage. Guess it's just Big Team and Invasion from now on.

Agree completely. Six game losing streak because my friends wouldn't stfu and listen to me and try to get rockets at ALL. I went there every time and got decimated for being by my god damn self. Every time we lost my friends kept talking shit and losing MORE. The other team camped sniper and rockets the whole game, one game we were so close to winning until one lucky nade killed three of us. And I had full health and shields. There are times I actually HATE this game, and times I love it. Today I hate it.

Limited
October 4th, 2010, 12:49 PM
I'm not too fussed with weapon powers, double meleeing unless its against shottie, what annoys the crap out of me is having idiotic teammates. I'm Lt Colonel, I've got alot of games where I'm +21, +14, +10, so my trueskill should be pretty high, yet I get bundled with complete idiots who are recruit and either stand around like fools or have no idea how to even play an FPS.

And yes I have skill checked in search.

Pooky
October 4th, 2010, 01:18 PM
There are times I actually HATE this game, and times I love it. Today I hate it.

Same here, unfortunately it's hate more often than love.

This game has CoD4 syndrome. It's inches away from perfection, all it needs are a few critical gameplay changes to really bring it up to god-tier. If Bungie implemented the ideas suggested here, the multiplayer experience would imrove dramatically.

e:
I thought I should clear something up. Anyone who plays Live with me knows I'm a very serious, competitive gamer most of the time. However, I still despise MLG as much as anyone because I actually have standards and don't believe in using chicken shit tactics to win. Similarly, I don't believe in MLG's philosophy that taking away all weapons besides the human midrange headshot weapon and turning off motion trackers makes Halo more 'Pro'. What I'm after is a fun, fair multiplayer experience where the better team wins based on their superior skill and strategy, without using cheap tactics or exploits. Every balance change I come up with is only intended to further that goal.

=sw=warlord
October 4th, 2010, 03:16 PM
I'm not too fussed with weapon powers, double meleeing unless its against shottie, what annoys the crap out of me is having idiotic teammates. I'm Lt Colonel, I've got alot of games where I'm +21, +14, +10, so my trueskill should be pretty high, yet I get bundled with complete idiots who are recruit and either stand around like fools or have no idea how to even play an FPS.

And yes I have skill checked in search.
That recruit thing could be because of the whole bungie resetting stats.
I was getting matched up with warrant officers and majors until this week end and now alot of people are recruits.

Futzy
October 4th, 2010, 03:57 PM
True skill hasn't sorted anyone out yet. Just keep playing and it will get better.
And of course the competitive playlists aren't looking for a good a match as Arena would be.

Warsaw
October 4th, 2010, 07:43 PM
I can agree that the Vehicle Health (at least for tanks and banshees) is a load of bull. If anything, they should just have the tank's material impervious to common weapons (like the DMR, AR, Plasma Repeater etc.) The Banshee should be damageable by all weapons, but not incurr so much damage from the sniper. It takes only 3-4 shots from a Sniper Rifle to kill a Banshee. If I hop in, I already have to worry about Plasma Pistols, Plasma Grenades, Tanks, Warthogs, Small Arms from the ground after a while, Rockets, and the Splazer. The last thing I need to be destroyed by is the Sniper Rifle too.

The sniper rifle is an ANTI-MATERIEL rifle. It's SUPPOSED to blast through armour, just like the PTRD did with the same caliber bullet in the Second World War. Hell, I should even be able to take out a Wraith with it in a few shots to the back side. If there could be more than two enemy snipers on the map at a given time, I can see the problem. Since the sniper doesn't respawn when some imbecile has it, just bomb the shit out of that faggot.

Now, I don't think Halo 1 was at all balanced, but it had a happy medium between cheap tactics and competitiveness. Sure, the pistol was the end-all, be-all gun of the game and tanks camping the bases was a dick move, but they were all counterable. With practise, you can engage a pistoleer with the MA5B and a well-timed grenade. With more practise, you can take out a tank with three shots from a pistol or a well-placed grenade and MA5B spray to the cockpit. Alternatively, you can use the Plasma Pistol to take down his shields and then either pop him in the face, toss a grenade, or blast him out using the AR again. And then we have the melees. Bungie invented this "tripod" of power for Halo 2. They say that it wasn't balanced in the first game. I call bullshit on that. It didn't even exist before because they hadn't thought of it that way until AFTER the first game. Melee, from the way Halo 1 plays, was designed to be your fall-back weapon when you ran out of ammunition, a finisher so you could take out your opponent in a close-quarters fight if he made the mistake of reloading, or a way to humiliate your opponent by taking him down with a backstab (AKA, using the weakest "weapon" in the game to kill him in one shot). This "tripod" shit is what started all of the crap. By making the game what they did, they turned it into a series of preset engagement types: grenade-rifle, rifle-grenade, grenade-grenade, grenade-melee, rifle-melee, and the ever ellusive rifle-rifle. I see no tripod of power in here, only many bipods. Halo: CE was by comparison unpredictable, and that's what made it fun.

In Reach, if you don't have Bungie's predetermined counter to a situation, you're fucked. Guy has a sniper, sucks to be you. Guy has a DMR, grab a sniper. Guy has a tank, grab a rocket. Guy has a rocket, you're fucked. Guy has a shotgun, grab a sniper again (Close quarters you say? You're fucked). In all scenarios, the universal counter is "land the first hit."

tl;dr-the game is too regimented and over-engineered. What they SHOULD have done is just added new features instead of fixing something that wasn't broken.

On the side, I still love the game. The audio is fantastic, the graphics are pretty damn good for console, and it's relatively fun compared against its predecessor. I bought it for its campaign, and compared to the last three titles, it certainly did not disappoint. One of the better expenditures of $70. I'm just bummed that the multiplayer still lacks the "magic" that made the original so entertaining.

DarkHalo003
October 4th, 2010, 08:10 PM
Well see, I see it backwards. I find this game to have a lot of magic Halo 1 didn't have. I'm not a big Halo 1 fan though, probably because I never had a high-performance system to have a good ping or constantly decent graphics. Halo 3 was also a ton of fun in my opinion, but I think the BR ultimately ruined the experience.

Donut
October 4th, 2010, 08:18 PM
i dont think 3 round burst weapons have any place in competitive gaming. has anyone ever seen a GOOD result to a 3 round burst weapon ? (stopping power + m16 doesnt count :maddowns:)

im definitely in agreement with warsaw though. halo 1 is still my favorite, but reach is by far the second best multiplayer experience imo. i havent enjoyed a halo game (besides CE) in a long time, and reach has been surprisingly fun for me. loving the tank headshot :iamafag:

jcap
October 4th, 2010, 08:46 PM
Solution to all balance problems: lag.

Hey, it's what made Halo 1 balanced %-)

p0lar_bear
October 4th, 2010, 09:39 PM
i dont think 3 round burst weapons have any place in competitive gaming. has anyone ever seen a GOOD result to a 3 round burst weapon ? (stopping power + m16 doesnt count :maddowns:)"M16 + Stopping Power" and "good" don't belong in the same sentence.

Donut
October 4th, 2010, 10:16 PM
my point exactly. i know we have (had?) one member here in particular that would disagree with me on the m16+stopping power thing. thats all an aside though. point is DMR > BR, and thus less MLG whoring. for now at least :saddowns:

p0lar_bear
October 4th, 2010, 10:28 PM
MLG is too busy whining about the fact that they lost their bullet hose that net them easy kills in SWAT. Once they suck it up and realize how to somehow spam the fuck out of it with impeccable accuracy like most of the strafing profags I come across, it'll be whored out to the max. As Pooky said, it's Halo's ubiquitous medium-range human headshot weapon.

Rob Oplawar
October 4th, 2010, 10:36 PM
I don't know what all the complaining's about. I love Reach, and I feel like each Halo game has been a strong improvement on the last in terms of gameplay. Halo 1 is still fun, but it feels so... boring compared to Reach. And come on, comparing CE to Reach? It's PC vs console, apples and oranges. The mouse makes it a completely different game.

e: Oh, or were you referring to CE as in Combat Evolved, not Custom Edition? That duplicate acronym always confuses me.

Futzy
October 4th, 2010, 10:39 PM
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=50197793
Tomorrows playlist changes.

Donut
October 4th, 2010, 10:51 PM
rob i was referring to halo 1 in general.

Kornman00
October 4th, 2010, 11:04 PM
M16 on burst (or depending on the model variant, full-auto) is shit unless you REALLY are just trying to spray 'n pray. The DMR is the UNSC's true M16/M4 set to semi and it's fucking great.

Not saying the M16/M4s are fucking great IRL tho.

Arteen
October 4th, 2010, 11:14 PM
Wow, Hunters are full of BS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/halo_ss/reach_4969245_Full.jpg
That melee is a one-hit kill on me, despite completely missing by a wide margin.

ejburke
October 4th, 2010, 11:32 PM
Speaking of Hunters, I'm calling BS on the earlier advice of using a needle rifle against them. On Heroic, it took 5 supercombines in the back to bring one down. Inefficient!

Timo
October 4th, 2010, 11:36 PM
One supercombine to the face on legendary killed one when I was playing through. Not sure if it has already down on health though.

annihilation
October 4th, 2010, 11:56 PM
The green things on the Hunters gun look like roasted marshmallows.:downs:

I find it easier to spam every grenade I can find then jump over them and shoot them.

TeeKup
October 5th, 2010, 02:47 AM
The sniper rifle is an ANTI-MATERIEL rifle. It's SUPPOSED to blast through armour, just like the PTRD did with the same caliber bullet in the Second World War. Hell, I should even be able to take out a Wraith with it in a few shots to the back side. If there could be more than two enemy snipers on the map at a given time, I can see the problem. Since the sniper doesn't respawn when some imbecile has it, just bomb the shit out of that faggot.

Now, I don't think Halo 1 was at all balanced, but it had a happy medium between cheap tactics and competitiveness. Sure, the pistol was the end-all, be-all gun of the game and tanks camping the bases was a dick move, but they were all counterable. With practise, you can engage a pistoleer with the MA5B and a well-timed grenade. With more practise, you can take out a tank with three shots from a pistol or a well-placed grenade and MA5B spray to the cockpit. Alternatively, you can use the Plasma Pistol to take down his shields and then either pop him in the face, toss a grenade, or blast him out using the AR again. And then we have the melees. Bungie invented this "tripod" of power for Halo 2. They say that it wasn't balanced in the first game. I call bullshit on that. It didn't even exist before because they hadn't thought of it that way until AFTER the first game. Melee, from the way Halo 1 plays, was designed to be your fall-back weapon when you ran out of ammunition, a finisher so you could take out your opponent in a close-quarters fight if he made the mistake of reloading, or a way to humiliate your opponent by taking him down with a backstab (AKA, using the weakest "weapon" in the game to kill him in one shot). This "tripod" shit is what started all of the crap. By making the game what they did, they turned it into a series of preset engagement types: grenade-rifle, rifle-grenade, grenade-grenade, grenade-melee, rifle-melee, and the ever ellusive rifle-rifle. I see no tripod of power in here, only many bipods. Halo: CE was by comparison unpredictable, and that's what made it fun.

In Reach, if you don't have Bungie's predetermined counter to a situation, you're fucked. Guy has a sniper, sucks to be you. Guy has a DMR, grab a sniper. Guy has a tank, grab a rocket. Guy has a rocket, you're fucked. Guy has a shotgun, grab a sniper again (Close quarters you say? You're fucked). In all scenarios, the universal counter is "land the first hit."

tl;dr-the game is too regimented and over-engineered. What they SHOULD have done is just added new features instead of fixing something that wasn't broken.

On the side, I still love the game. The audio is fantastic, the graphics are pretty damn good for console, and it's relatively fun compared against its predecessor. I bought it for its campaign, and compared to the last three titles, it certainly did not disappoint. One of the better expenditures of $70. I'm just bummed that the multiplayer still lacks the "magic" that made the original so entertaining.

I love you warsaw.

Pooky
October 5th, 2010, 04:32 AM
Now, I don't think Halo 1 was at all balanced, but it had a happy medium between cheap tactics and competitiveness. Sure, the pistol was the end-all, be-all gun of the game and tanks camping the bases was a dick move, but they were all counterable.

Pretty much this. What really made Halo 1's MP great is that you were almost never completely helpless. Everything was counterable, and a sufficiently clever player with good aim could survive just about anything. Reach MP has far too many situations you can get into where there is no counter and no defense, and all the changes I've proposed have been made with that in mind.




And then we have the melees. Bungie invented this "tripod" of power for Halo 2. They say that it wasn't balanced in the first game. I call bullshit on that. It didn't even exist before because they hadn't thought of it that way until AFTER the first game.

If you look back at Halo 1, the melee attacks were still quite powerful. The main thing that made them balanced related to other attacks was the lack of autoaim, and more importantly the lack of lunge. I can't stress just how much I hate melee lunge. Melee attacks no longer require any sort of aiming, and the lunge function itself seems wildly inconsistent. Sometimes it won't lunge a guy 2 inches in front of me, sometimes I get lunges so far and fast it seems like there's a rocket up my ass.



I don't know what all the complaining's about.

Reach is basically a good game. With a few small improvements, it could be a dramatically better game. If no one complains, nothing gets changed. Hell, game testers are basically paid to complain. Some of us are a little more harsh in our complaining (I make no excuses), but that doesn't mean the complaints aren't valid.

I always try to give well thought out reasons for my bitching, and as someone who's been taking Halo too seriously from the very beginning I think it's safe to say I know the series' gameplay at least as well as the developers.

Arteen
October 5th, 2010, 08:49 AM
You know what's awesome? Infection on Sword Base. Some human will hide at the end of that long hallway on the ground floor leading to the air vent. After three failed attempts to kill to him, I finally close the gap and sword lunge him, only for him to melee block my sword lunge and shoot me in the face. That was pretty awesome.

L0d3x
October 5th, 2010, 09:50 AM
Wow, Hunters are full of BS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Arteen/halo_ss/reach_4969245_Full.jpg
That melee is a one-hit kill on me, despite completely missing by a wide margin.

Must've knocked up quite a bit of wind.

PlasbianX
October 5th, 2010, 03:35 PM
Bungie just announced on their twitter that all credits earned once you hit the cap still count towards your next rank when they lift the cap, assuming you hit the cap legitimately.

ejburke
October 5th, 2010, 04:05 PM
Thanks for posting that. I knew that had to be the case, but they should know by fricking now that everything they say needs to be spelled out and clarified.

DarkHalo003
October 5th, 2010, 05:04 PM
I officially sympathize with the melee people now. I just played a game of Team Slayer on Pinnacle and half of my deaths could have been avoided if the melee wsn't so unbalanced between two spartans. I play Invasion a lot, so usually I just back away as an Elite or can shoot enough bullets to get the melee kill first. But in Team Slayer, I literally hit myself because of all of the times I died from double melees that I probably shouldn't have. Nothing is worse when you get that melee and start blasting away at your enemy at point blank, but still die from that second fast melee attack. It's just quirky and generally stupid in Team Slayer games.

Warsaw
October 5th, 2010, 07:02 PM
Pretty much this. What really made Halo 1's MP great is that you were almost never completely helpless. Everything was counterable, and a sufficiently clever player with good aim could survive just about anything. Reach MP has far too many situations you can get into where there is no counter and no defense, and all the changes I've proposed have been made with that in mind.




If you look back at Halo 1, the melee attacks were still quite powerful. The main thing that made them balanced related to other attacks was the lack of autoaim, and more importantly the lack of lunge. I can't stress just how much I hate melee lunge. Melee attacks no longer require any sort of aiming, and the lunge function itself seems wildly inconsistent. Sometimes it won't lunge a guy 2 inches in front of me, sometimes I get lunges so far and fast it seems like there's a rocket up my ass.


Reach is basically a good game. With a few small improvements, it could be a dramatically better game. If no one complains, nothing gets changed. Hell, game testers are basically paid to complain. Some of us are a little more harsh in our complaining (I make no excuses), but that doesn't mean the complaints aren't valid.

I always try to give well thought out reasons for my bitching, and as someone who's been taking Halo too seriously from the very beginning I think it's safe to say I know the series' gameplay at least as well as the developers.

Yeah, I know it's all about the lunge. I've been bitching about that since 2004. But it still took three melee hits to kill someone in Halo 1. Bungie, reset it pl0x.

DarkHalo003
October 5th, 2010, 07:49 PM
Yeah, I know it's all about the lunge. I've been bitching about that since 2004. But it still took three melee hits to kill someone in Halo 1. Bungie, reset it pl0x.
I like the Lunge. It means I can actually hit someone.

Limited
October 5th, 2010, 07:52 PM
Great, we have Lodex whos absolute rubbish in SWAT, chatting about his penis and singing babycakes.

E: We just got matchmade up with Snave, locked the map down like crazy on SWAT :D

p0lar_bear
October 5th, 2010, 08:43 PM
I officially sympathize with the melee people now. I just played a game of Team Slayer on Pinnacle and half of my deaths could have been avoided if the melee wsn't so unbalanced between two spartans. I play Invasion a lot, so usually I just back away as an Elite or can shoot enough bullets to get the melee kill first. But in Team Slayer, I literally hit myself because of all of the times I died from double melees that I probably shouldn't have. Nothing is worse when you get that melee and start blasting away at your enemy at point blank, but still die from that second fast melee attack. It's just quirky and generally stupid in Team Slayer games.


Quit your whining and learn how to use a melee combat system in a game mostly about heavy weapons. GOSH! (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=28836)

What Bungie doesn't realize is, while just anyone can run around top speed beating people into a pulp with a homing, 2-hit melee kill, not just anyone can decide within the one precious second you get before Hurfen McDurfen's bumper-spamming registers as an actual press on what to do.

As stated, melee attacks wiping out the entirety of someone's shields is retarded. Someone choosing to bum rush you while you're staring them down with a fucking gun should be punished outright for stupidity of that magnitude. Instead, the person choosing to shoot is basically being punished for bringing a gun to a knifefight that was advertised as a firefight, and is given a limited window of opportunity to be forgiven of such a horrible sin.

Futzy
October 5th, 2010, 08:55 PM
BXR is back
R+RY+Melee

Warsaw
October 5th, 2010, 09:11 PM
I like the Lunge. It means I can actually hit someone.

If you require lunge to hit your target with a melee, then you suck at the game. Sorry to sound like an ass, but nobody should require a computer to compensate for their lack of skill. All you have to do is run up to someone point blank and hit "B" to land a legit melee, so you shouldn't be rewarded for pressing said "B" before you are actually in swinging range. Rather, you should be punished by getting your ass handed to you for being premature in your button press. It's fucking stupid what they do with Halo 2-Reach.

Limited
October 5th, 2010, 09:18 PM
Hah Malloy got mute banned.

thehoodedsmack
October 5th, 2010, 09:22 PM
I agree with the lot of gentlemen in this thread on the melee issue.

What Should Have Been:
"It sucks when you're trying to melee someone, but they turn around at the last second."
"Let's make melee attacks do a fair bit of damage from any direction, to compensate for such scenarios, including finding oneself in close-quarters with a light weapon."
"Good idea. Different weapons should do different melee damage, too. It would be crazy if swinging a heavy shotgun did the same damage as a hard-hitting pistol-whip."

What Is:

A system that needs improvement.

Honestly, the only melee system worse than Halo's is CoD's knifing.

Warsaw
October 5th, 2010, 09:25 PM
I'M SO KEWL GUISE I HAS TACTI-COOL KNIFE WATCH AS I SPRINT AROUND THE MAP KILLING UR FAGGOT ASSES WITHOUT BULLETS LULULULULULULUL...


Now that I think about it, there's a lot of that going on in Reach with the melee, and to a certain extent, the shotgun. Oh, the plasma pistol too...and you can't counter because if he has those guns, you invariably do not.

DarkHalo003
October 5th, 2010, 10:10 PM
If you require lunge to hit your target with a melee, then you suck at the game. Sorry to sound like an ass, but nobody should require a computer to compensate for their lack of skill. All you have to do is run up to someone point blank and hit "B" to land a legit melee, so you shouldn't be rewarded for pressing said "B" before you are actually in swinging range. Rather, you should be punished by getting your ass handed to you for being premature in your button press. It's fucking stupid what they do with Halo 2-Reach.
No, I'm accustomed to not having to be at coordinates 0,0,0 to melee someone. By Lunge I mean the magnetism to the other player when you melee, not the actually length and leaping forward as you do it. Halo 1's was flawed for multiplayer because then melee was virtually pointless with the exception of assassinations (if the player was actually still enough in the first place). I don't think I've ever been killed in an actively serious battle in Halo PC Multiplayer by a melee attack. Do I think that melee-time should be increased? Yes. Do I think having a damage adjustment would be nice? Yes. Do I think any other adjustments that might jeopardize the validity of having melee in the first place (like removing the lunge)? No. I'm pretty decent at this game and I'm mediocre at Halo PC. I can honestly say I have more FUN when I play Halo Reach than Halo 1, which includes the auto-melee lunge. It's just what I find fun in a Halo game (not the melee-rush, just the fact that I can actually land a melee when it seems reasonable).

If you take out melee then the only point to Reach is use power weapons, equipment, and spam grenades. Considering how boring that'd be, be thankful a good team of designers made the melee somewhat useful.

The Shotgun should be removed from spawning in Invasion. It's already one of the loadouts and gives you advantage in almost any situation against the Elites for the 3rd Phase (before the Core is stolen).

The Plasma Pistol is actually somewhat balanced now and is somewhat more useful without being Halo2's abomination.

Kornman00
October 5th, 2010, 10:14 PM
Bungie just announced on their twitter that all credits earned once you hit the cap still count towards your next rank when they lift the cap, assuming you hit the cap legitimately.
If I wasn't the Rep-hitler and had rep disabled, I would rep you

so instead I'll just give you this thumbs up: http://www.modacity.net:4000/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Ellis
October 5th, 2010, 10:57 PM
Here's what I don't understand. What the hell is the point of a cap if all the credits you earn while capped go toward next rank. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about it since I'm sitting at the cap, but it just seems stupid and redundant. There was NO way they did this just so people wouldn't max rank, you could not max rank in the first 3-4 weeks even if you played with minimal sleep everyday. I don't understand what logic (If any) Bungie uses when making some of their decisions. Then again, I see no logic in daily, weekly credit limits, and the rank cap when ranks are meaningless and the armor is all cosmetic. o.O

Arteen
October 5th, 2010, 11:15 PM
DarkHalo, the only reason melees sucked in Halo PC was because of the netcode. On the Xbox, melees worked just fine.

Warsaw
October 6th, 2010, 12:16 AM
^What he said.

Clearly you've never played the original Halo on Xbox either; we had no problems with melee over system link or split screen. What you need to STOP doing is comparing your Halo PC experience (a PC experience, duh) to your Reach experience (a console experience) because they aren't going to play at all similar when you have all this reticle magnetism, autoaim, and lunge compensation on the latter.

Aside from that, if you are a Halo PC veteran you should be able to lead your melees to compensate for the shitty netcode Microsoft forced on Gearbox. Therefore you are either unskilled or a novice. Judging by your join date, you should not be a novice.
:mech:

PlasbianX
October 6th, 2010, 12:21 AM
If I wasn't the Rep-hitler and had rep disabled, I would rep you

so instead I'll just give you this thumbs up: http://www.modacity.net:4000/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Be thankful I was thinking about you when I checked my twitter today :P I even took the time to login to modacity on my phone specifically to post that

BosanskiCarmine
October 6th, 2010, 01:26 AM
I miss Halo PC melee. I will take leading my melee to lunging any day.

Pooky
October 6th, 2010, 01:23 PM
No, I'm accustomed to not having to be at coordinates 0,0,0 to melee someone. By Lunge I mean the magnetism to the other player when you melee, not the actually length and leaping forward as you do it. Halo 1's was flawed for multiplayer because then melee was virtually pointless with the exception of assassinations (if the player was actually still enough in the first place). I don't think I've ever been killed in an actively serious battle in Halo PC Multiplayer by a melee attack.

What? The melee attacks were perfectly fine on both if you knew what you were doing.


I miss Halo PC melee. I will take leading my melee to lunging any day.

This man speaks wisdom. Leading melee attacks was an art few mastered, but those of us who did were a force to reckon with.

ejburke
October 6th, 2010, 02:43 PM
I don't really mind the melee magnetism in Reach. It's tightened way down from the Halo 2 days. Just remember that most players aren't willing to accept and master every quirk. Leading a punch isn't exactly an intuitive concept and most players would probably question why they have to do that instead of adapting to it. It hurts accessibility.

Hell, I kind of miss the Halo PC leading. It gave me a huge advantage over those unwilling to master it. But the point is to make something that people can pick up and play.

The problem is the double punch. Let's focus on that. Personally, I think that if you melee someone and pop their shield, your shield should come down as well, giving the punchee the advantage, because he doesn't have to wait a second to throw a punch, while the puncher does.

jcap
October 6th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Honestly, I think the bigger problem is the lack of ammo each weapon carries for the amount of bloom they have (specifically the pistol). I would avoid melee battles if I didn't run out of ammo and need to run in for the punch to get the kill.

Futzy
October 6th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Hoppy shit everyones argument in here just keeps going around in circles. What you say in here won't change anything.
Enjoy the game how it is and stop bitching.

=sw=warlord
October 6th, 2010, 04:16 PM
This man speaks wisdom. Leading melee attacks was an art few mastered, but those of us who did were a force to reckon with.

You mean like how people with sprint using double punches are today?
Gee how the times change...

DarkHalo003
October 6th, 2010, 05:12 PM
Honestly, I think the bigger problem is the lack of ammo each weapon carries for the amount of bloom they have (specifically the pistol). I would avoid melee battles if I didn't run out of ammo and need to run in for the punch to get the kill.
I agree here. Half of the time I don't even need to melee fight when I have a weapon that has a large enough magazine, like the AR or Needle Rifle. But when I have a pistol or DMR, I'm forced to melee just because i haven't enough of a clip to carry on. Unless I'm assassinating, I never really intentionally melee.

p0lar_bear
October 6th, 2010, 05:17 PM
Hoppy shit everyones argument in here just keeps going around in circles. What you say in here won't change anything.
Enjoy the game how it is and stop bitching.

Arguments? So far, I've seen people propose a change to something they claim is flawed, followed by people saying that they're wrong, followed by said naysayers changing their opinion and agreeing after playing a few games in the Team Slayer playlist. I'm about ready to call out anyone who claims two-punch rushes aren't cheap as someone that relies too heavily on that tactic (get out), or someone that's reserved themselves to mostly Big Team games (and stay there if you enjoy your sanity).

Donut
October 6th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Hoppy shit everyones argument in here just keeps going around in circles. What you say in here won't change anything.
Enjoy the game how it is and stop bitching.
well hoppy shit to you too. the game has issues, and we are bringing them to people's attention. in the past months modacity has received site traffic from bungie.net, so whos to say what goes on here isnt influencing what goes on there? the more people know, the more people either agree or disagree, and if there are enough people disagreeing with an element of the game, bungie would be inclined to patch it. they patched the melee in halo 3, why not here? our "bitching" isnt as useless as you make it sound.

=sw=warlord
October 6th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Arguments? So far, I've seen people propose a change to something they claim is flawed, followed by people saying that they're wrong, followed by said naysayers changing their opinion and agreeing after playing a few games in the Team Slayer playlist. I'm about ready to call out anyone who claims two-punch rushes aren't cheap as someone that relies too heavily on that tactic (get out), or someone that's reserved themselves to mostly Big Team games (and stay there if you enjoy your sanity).

If they change something for one playlist they need to think about all the playlists.
Just because something is broken in one playlist doesn't mean all of a sudden it must without any question be changed which will effect more than just that one playlist.

ejburke
October 6th, 2010, 07:29 PM
The problem is a problem everywhere. It's just obscured on the larger team playlists. Double melee is just a dumb, cheap way to die. They recognized this in the beta, it's just that their solution for retail didn't solve anything. It might as well be a one-hit kill -- that second punch is just a formality.

p0lar_bear
October 6th, 2010, 07:39 PM
If they change something for one playlist they need to think about all the playlists.
Just because something is broken in one playlist doesn't mean all of a sudden it must without any question be changed which will effect more than just that one playlist.

From my experience, Team Slayer and Rumble Pit games are usually played on smaller maps, where players are left with the options of midranged combat and CQC with power weapons. Big Team has more focus on vehicular combat, sniping, and heavy weaponry.

Statistics-wise, my deaths back this up. In Rumble Pit, melee attacks cause 24% of my deaths, the DMR and Needle Rifle cause 19%, and the Shotgun accounts for 8%. In Team Slayer, DMR kills me 27% of the time, melee deaths are at 17%, and I get sniped 13% of the time. In Big Team, the DMR tops the list at 29%, sniper rifle at 18%, all vehicles at 18%, and melee accounts for 10%.

I can't say how many of those melee deaths are double-punch rushes, but I'm willing to bet a good percentage of them are based on how much I'm bitching about them.

DarkHalo003
October 6th, 2010, 09:52 PM
If they change something for one playlist they need to think about all the playlists.
Just because something is broken in one playlist doesn't mean all of a sudden it must without any question be changed which will effect more than just that one playlist.
The problem with that is that the double-melee can give some spartans a little bit of leeway when it comes to close quarters fighting against bigger, faster, and stronger Elites. For the most part, I've really only seen the need for this sort of change in Team Slayer mainly because most of the maps are close-quarters enough to use the double-melee spastically.

Pooky
October 7th, 2010, 03:07 AM
You mean like how people with sprint using double punches are today?
Gee how the times change...

Actually no, not even slightly like that. All the double punch rush morons are as garbage as eachother, and as often as not get killed right after getting their shitty melee kill by another shitty melee tard. It's one of those things where no one can really be any better at it than anyone else, which makes the game mindless and inane.



The problem with that is that the double-melee can give some spartans a little bit of leeway when it comes to close quarters fighting against bigger, faster, and stronger Elites. For the most part, I've really only seen the need for this sort of change in Team Slayer mainly because most of the maps are close-quarters enough to use the double-melee spastically.

It's stupid and irritating any and every time it happens, there's no reason not to change it. Look at phase one on Boneyard, practically all anyone does is punch eachother and spam grenades because the guns are so ineffective.

ejburke
October 7th, 2010, 03:48 AM
I bet today was an easy day in matchmaking for people who don't care about the challenges, with everyone else trying to get 30 kills with automatic weapons. Wait, does punching with a weapon count as using it?

Seriously, I don't even know why full auto weapons are in the game. Those commendations for using them are basically Bungie encouraging you to play the game wrong. Ugh.

Rob Oplawar
October 7th, 2010, 06:56 AM
I know why it sounds like y'all are whining. Because some of you are saying the game requires too much skill and others are saying it doesn't require enough.

What they have done is made the golden tripod easier to use- more autoaim, melee lunges, more powerful grenades. The game is no longer dominated by your opponent's superior ability to have ungodly aim or horrendous accuracy with grenades or uncanny ability to lead melees. Those things still have an effect on the game, but much less so nowadays.

In my opinion, it has been replaced with more depth and strategy (in an FPS? pshaw!). You complain that there are some situations you can get in that are simply a no-win for you? Well now whose fault is that? OK, to be fair, every once in a while it's the luck of the draw. But when I play Reach the vast majority of the time when I die I can directly see, "well, I was too meek here, should have taken the initiative." "I let them grab the power weapon and then didn't use the right strategy to counter it." "I really need to stop charging them on my own while they're on the defensive as a team."

It still happens once every few games that there's some guy who has robot-like timing and aim that gets him to the top of the ranking without competition. But far more often than I did in Halo 2 or 3 I see rounds where the dominating factor is an opponent's foresight and teamwork.

Unfortunately, it's not perfect, because sometimes this equates to knowing exactly when the rocket launcher is going to respawn or knowing exactly when your teammate is going to go into armor lock...

=sw=warlord
October 7th, 2010, 07:18 AM
Seriously, I don't even know why full auto weapons are in the game. Those commendations for using them are basically Bungie encouraging you to play the game wrong. Ugh.
That is pretty closed thinking to be honest.
there is practically no way to play a game "wrong".
You may not like automatic weapons but some people who are from the ages of doom and wolfenstein actually prefer automatics.

MXC
October 7th, 2010, 08:19 AM
Seriously, I don't even know why full auto weapons are in the game. Those commendations for using them are basically Bungie encouraging you to play the game wrong. Ugh.

Don't be dissing the assault rifle, yo.

p0lar_bear
October 7th, 2010, 08:41 AM
That is pretty closed thinking to be honest.
there is practically no way to play a game "wrong".
You may not like automatic weapons but some people who are from the ages of doom and wolfenstein actually prefer automatics.

And I guarantee that most of the time, those types are getting dominated by people with mid-range headshot weapons.

=sw=warlord
October 7th, 2010, 10:09 AM
And I guarantee that most of the time, those types are getting dominated by people with mid-range headshot weapons.
Not always, short controlled bursts reduce the problems of the bloom.

Pooky
October 7th, 2010, 12:22 PM
What they have done is made the golden tripod easier to use- more autoaim, melee lunges, more powerful grenades. The game is no longer dominated by your opponent's superior ability to have ungodly aim or horrendous accuracy with grenades or uncanny ability to lead melees. Those things still have an effect on the game, but much less so nowadays.

I understand what you're saying here, but I disagree. Keep in mind that most of the complaints coming in here are directed specifically at small team games on infantry only maps. In these games, the only strategy is camping with power weapons. If the other team is camping with power weapons, then the only hope you have is for one of them to do something stupid and get killed, otherwise this strategy is unbreakable.

That's the main focus of my complaints. Reach has significantly less depth than any of its predecessors. The strategy is shallow, player skill is pretty much a non factor. It's a free for all where my grandma has as much chance of winning as the MLG pro champion as long as she knows to camp with heavy weapons and double melee, and there's something wrong with that. That's why I've suggested several sandbox changes that would increase the depth by giving players more choices and returning aiming skill as a primary factor in engagements.

For the sake of argument, I'm restating the list from before.


- The melee attack needs a damage nerf. It is far too powerful for something that requires no aiming whatsoever. My suggestion would be to nerf the melee attack to take off only 2/3 of a player's shield in a single hit.

-Get rid of the fucking sword/melee parry. It was a good idea to make the sword loadouts in Invasion more balanced, but it's bullshit anywhere else. My suggestion was to have two versions of the sword, one for Invasion, and one for everything else.

-Either tone down, or remove the reticule bloom (on the DMR and needle rifle). I really don't understand what the point of this was supposed to be, all I see is that retards can occasionally spam their DMRs at point blank range and get lucky headshots. Randomness is the bane of any game intending to be played competitively, and it certainly doesn't have any place affecting the primary competitive weapons of Reach.

-Give the plasma grenades a tiny 'arming time' of about 1/3 of a second after you throw it. During this time, the grenade will not stick to anything, but will just bounce off. This is to prevent that annoying and skill-less point blank sticking crap. To clarify, skilled sticks from a decent range will still work, it's only complete point blank auto aim sticks that will not.

-Either make the hitboxes smaller, or tone down the bullet magnetism, because the sniper is fucking ridiculous right now. It takes virtually no effort to use, and basically dominates everything.

-Like Warsaw said, can we please go back to purely timer based weapon spawns? I'd prefer games to be decided by who is the best power weapon user, not who is the only power weapon user.

- I'm not a huge fan of the new vehicle health system, but I can see where it's useful in gameplay terms. That said, there's nothing more gay for a new player than to get into what seems to be a heavily armored tank, only to die from 2 assault rifle bullets. First off, if we're going to have vehicle health, we need to have a vehicle health bar (passenger health bars would be nice, too). No one can argue that the health of your vehicle is vital gameplay information, and there's no reason to hide vital information from players unless you're fucking retarded or something. Second, the vehicle health should regenerate up to certain thresholds, the same as player health. That way you can have a damaged tank, or a heavily damaged tank, but not one that dies in 2 bullets.

Now, tell me how anything suggested there would not improve the depth of gameplay and give players more choices in every encounter.



That is pretty closed thinking to be honest.a
there is practically no way to play a game "wrong".
You may not like automatic weapons but some people who are from the ages of doom and wolfenstein actually prefer automatics.

I'm from the era of DOOM, I like automatic weapons just fine. That said, I would never use an automatic weapon in Reach unless I had no other choice. Headshots always win.

=sw=warlord
October 7th, 2010, 01:21 PM
That's the main focus of my complaints. Reach has significantly less depth than any of its predecessors. The strategy is shallow, player skill is pretty much a non factor.
I'm going to have to disagree with that.
In Halo 3 the game play was alot more shallow, it was more or less focused on the battle rifle and grenades, got a sniper rifle? no worries that guy with a battle rifle can out sniper you, got a shotgun? no worries that guy with a battle rifle can just shoot you twice and then melee you.

Pooky
October 7th, 2010, 02:04 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with that.
In Halo 3 the game play was alot more shallow, it was more or less focused on the battle rifle and grenades, got a sniper rifle? no worries that guy with a battle rifle can out sniper you, got a shotgun? no worries that guy with a battle rifle can just shoot you twice and then melee you.

I don't deny that Halo 3 focused on the BR to the exclusion of most other weapons, however I don't care for the examples you used. Assuming you're at the optimum range for a sniper rifle or a shotgun in these situations, if you die from a BR, you're kind of bad.

Gameplay focusing primarily on a single mid range, all purpose weapon is not exactly unusual. Every Halo game has done this. The other weapons on the map are specialist tools, giving you an edge over the guy with the all purpose weapon when used in appropriate situations.

I feel like Reach suffers from a heavy handed attempt to fix something that wasn't broken. They've made the all purpose weapons kind of shitty, and put back the terrible weapon spawning system from Halo 2, which leads to a focus on camping and double melee (like Halo 2). If the melee got nerfed and we had the old spawning system back, Reach MP would be a lot more interesting, other changes notwithstanding.

Limited
October 7th, 2010, 03:39 PM
:D Hit the level cap, and completed legendary today.

ejburke
October 7th, 2010, 03:50 PM
That is pretty closed thinking to be honest.
there is practically no way to play a game "wrong".
You may not like automatic weapons but some people who are from the ages of doom and wolfenstein actually prefer automatics.

Full auto weapons are all the same. They can't do headshots, because that would be too easy. They error like a motherfucker over medium to long range. They are the most boring, vanilla, brand of DPS imaginable. And in Halo, they are little more than vestigial relics. The series has evolved past any need for them in their current form.

Anybody notice that whenever Bungie demo's their games, they almost always use a full-auto weapon and it makes the combat look boring as Hell?

If I were making a Halo game, I would convert the AR to a 5-round burst weapon, with a "Center mass" version of the headshot -- if all five bullets hit the chest of an unshielded enemy, they die. There would still be full auto weapons, but they'd be treated like the PR and Spiker in Reach as intended for AI and not players.

thehoodedsmack
October 7th, 2010, 04:13 PM
Suggestion:

Full-auto close-quarters weapons that do more damage the closer you are to an enemy. I'm not sure how the system works right now, but does an AR round from up-close do more damage than an AR round from a distance? If they'd do something like that, then people might stand a chance at shooting away at those double-melee players.

Warsaw
October 7th, 2010, 06:58 PM
While they are at it, they might as well make the bullets have velocity and be affected by gravity.

Futzy
October 7th, 2010, 07:02 PM
While they are at it, they might as well make the bullets have velocity and be affected by gravity.
There weren't any hitscan weapons in halo 3 and it worked just fine.

DarkHalo003
October 7th, 2010, 07:10 PM
While they are at it, they might as well make the bullets have velocity and be affected by gravity.
I don't think it matters so much due to the size of most maps. Only Forge World really has enough distance to where the bullet could be even seen to be affected by gravity. Any other map basically has too many obstacles to in the way, so bullets would mostly hit before gravity would even be effectively accounted. It'd just be a waste of engine in other words.

I do agree a bit about distance and velocity needing to have effect on damage. However, are the common players that don't constantly ponder this type of addition really going to be satisfied. I think if an overwhelming majority agreed about it, then it'd be something to honestly consider, but the only weapons it'd honestly matter with would be precision weapons (not the Sniper Rifle) just because they're the only weapons that can be used moderately at long enough distances for the idea to be balanced.

@thehoodedsmack:

I think it's fine when it comes to the AR mainly because there are many other factors that come into play to balance it out. It's these kind of things that make me like Halo games just because it's totally unrealistic, but balanced enough to be fair to all players, not just some of those who complain about anything they think is wrong with the game. The AR works well against melee-users in Invasion mainly because the projectile error can hit Elites at point blank when the bloom has expanded out very far. I think if the Projectile Error was decreased just a bit to where each bullet didn't spray off into the distance when you fire the weapon (more or less like Halo3's projectile error), then double-melee in Team Slayer games would be not as easy.

jcap
October 7th, 2010, 09:13 PM
While they are at it, they might as well make the bullets have velocity and be affected by gravity.
Actually, that's already the case with certain projectiles. See: rockets.

Kornman00
October 7th, 2010, 09:24 PM
I think that's something to do with a projectile's fall off arc or w/e it's called and not actually or truly affected by the current world gravity. Something mythbusters should look into.

Futzy
October 7th, 2010, 09:29 PM
I think that's something to do with a projectile's fall off arc or w/e it's called and not actually or truly affected by the current world gravity. Something mythbusters should look into.
DMR, pistol, sniper, foces rifle, and AR are all hitscan. The rest behave in the same way they have since Halo 1 with projectile speeds and a defined arc.

jcap
October 7th, 2010, 09:36 PM
Hey Kornman, change the global for gravity in Reach and see if it affects it :p

DarkHalo003
October 7th, 2010, 10:18 PM
Can someone explain to me exactly what hitscan is? I've heard of it constantly and have not yet grasped the concept.

p0lar_bear
October 7th, 2010, 10:34 PM
Upon the trigger pull, a line is (invisibly, under the hood) drawn, originating from the point where bullets spawn (your FP camera for normal weapons, from the weapon itself on vehicles and HMGs). The line is pointed in a certain direction, based on the weapon's base inaccuracy or current reticle bloom. The line continues until either the maximum possible range of the weapon, or something collidable is hit, and damage is dealt and particle effects spawn on whatever it intersects with. (In the case of the sniper rifle, the line keeps going to its max range until a shielded target, or a wall is hit.)

Most weapons that fire traditional bullets (or something like them) are hitscan in this game to relieve stress on the netcode; actual projectiles are more expensive than hitscan methods.

Donut
October 7th, 2010, 10:35 PM
hit scan is like pistol vs plasma rifle. what hitscan means is when you fire, the game draws a ray from your gun to wherever youre pointing in one frame, and if theres anything in the way of that ray, its automatically a hit, whereas the plasma rifle has actual projectiles that must impact the target

thehoodedsmack
October 7th, 2010, 10:47 PM
Just putting this out there: gravity definitely affected some projectiles in previous games, at least in Halo 1. Increase the gravity in CE and fire a plasma pistol. You'll see it drop straight to the ground.

Kornman00
October 7th, 2010, 10:57 PM
Hey Kornman, change the global for gravity in Reach and see if it affects it :p
work trumps modding :ugh:

DarkHalo003
October 7th, 2010, 10:58 PM
That'd explain why Bungie stated that the FRG is tough on the netcode. Thanks for the explanation.

What I want to know is how they got Firefight working so much better this time around. I have a Moderate connection with a Wireless Adapter and my performance is usually very consistent in comparison to ODST's Firefight.

Donut
October 7th, 2010, 11:19 PM
can somebody tell me why theres a fuel rod gun in a matchmaking map?
actually, better question: can somebody tell me why theres a fuel rod gun that does one shot kills in a matchmaking map? it isnt in anything obscure either. spire on big team slayer. i killed some guy that had it up on the spire and ended up getting like 8 kills with it before i ran out of ammo. i would really like to know what the hell the map planner was thinking when they put that fuel rod cannon on there.
E: not that i minded the kills, it just felt really cheap is all.

p0lar_bear
October 7th, 2010, 11:33 PM
That'd explain why Bungie stated that the FRG is tough on the netcode. Thanks for the explanation.

What I want to know is how they got Firefight working so much better this time around. I have a Moderate connection with a Wireless Adapter and my performance is usually very consistent in comparison to ODST's Firefight.

Reach was built from scratch, whereas Halos 2, 3, and ODST were upgrades of the Blam engine. Starting with a clean slate is harder, but allows for more in the end.

Kornman00
October 8th, 2010, 12:49 AM
Reach is still the same Blam engine. That whole 'rebuilt' quote I think is thrown around too loosely (it was spoken by the designers, who were probably told from a programmer in a KISS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle)'d way). It's still very much the difference saw in going from Halo 1 to Halo 2, or H2 to H3, or even H3 to ODST. There may be some rewrites in the graphical systems and whatnot (to keep up with the times) but mostly it's just implementations getting tweaked (the complexity of the tweak being variable) or fine tuned.

Think of it in terms of cars. Generally as each new year model comes out not much has changed under the hood, but new features have been added due to technological advances. You may even get better gas mileage but it's still basically the same engine, just some performance tweaks. However, if the 2012 model turns out to be powered by a jet engine, has the body of a plane fuselage and, holy shit, can hover/fly then you can say it was rebuilt from scratch as the changes faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the advancements/tweaks.

paladin
October 8th, 2010, 01:17 AM
why arent you on live,

ha nvm

Pooky
October 8th, 2010, 02:12 AM
I think it's fine when it comes to the AR mainly because there are many other factors that come into play to balance it out. It's these kind of things that make me like Halo games just because it's totally unrealistic, but balanced enough to be fair to all players, not just some of those who complain about anything they think is wrong with the game.

Guys stop discussing and criticizing Reach in the Reach discussion thread, Bungie are gods and can do no wrong!


:haw:

Warsaw
October 8th, 2010, 02:20 AM
There weren't any hitscan weapons in halo 3 and it worked just fine.

I'm not supporting hitscan. I hate hitscan, I think it's for n00bs who can't aim for shit. I'd absolutely love it if they gave the projectiles finite velocity again, especially the sniper rifle.

t3h m00kz
October 8th, 2010, 07:43 AM
it's a case of gameplay over realism

Warsaw
October 8th, 2010, 02:09 PM
In this case, gameplay would be better without hitscan. We all know how over-easy the sniper is to use. Adding finite velocity would make it take some skill to wield and therefore balance it. Halo 1 did not have a hitscan sniper; I had to lead the target even on Xbox.

p0lar_bear
October 8th, 2010, 02:37 PM
"Gameplay" not meaning just skill. Having a sniper rifle that actually connects with whatever you shot it at no matter what your latency is a hell of a lot less frustrating than one that does it whenever it feels like your ping is good enough.

DarkHalo003
October 8th, 2010, 04:26 PM
Guys stop discussing and criticizing Reach in the Reach discussion thread, Bungie are gods and can do no wrong!


:haw:
Shut up. You're acting like a complete ars. By your logic, no matter what choice Bungie makes, I'll agree because I agree with many things in Reach's design because I find the game fun. Find the faulty logic in there if you will. I've mentioned and concurred about things that I've found aren't quite perfected yet too, so stop acting like I'm some one sided bigot with no opinion.

I generally agree with you Polar, but I think the magnetism should be less than what it is now, or make it so it's not as easy to snipe as Halo 2 at least.

=sw=warlord
October 8th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Credit Report

By now you’re all aware that there’s a limit on the level you can currently achieve in Reach. Based on the amount of noise and concern coming from the community I figured that the vast majority of you have already run face first into this virtual ceiling. I couldn’t have been more wrong. As it turns out, over 70% of the entire population is still at Warrant Officer or below. In fact, the amount of active players who are currently sitting at the level cap is less than 1% of everyone playing Reach.

I figured many of you would like to see how your current rank stacks up against the entire community at large so Jacob Miner, one of our infrastructure engineers and stats gurus, whipped up this quick chart for me:
http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline10/100810/ReachRankDist.jpg
Note that “Private A” is what’s known in-game as “Private Grade 1”, “Warrant Officer A” is “Warrant Officer Grade 1” and so on.

I just personally hit Major yesterday so I’m sitting in the upper echelons of the top 97% of our player base for virtual-ranks-with-no-tangible-real-value! I feel… special. This chart also shows what most of you already know – climbing the Warrant Officer Mountain is a monumental feat!

Luke Smith, the player investment designer for Reach, noticed this too, “Yes, Warrant Officer is a long stretch of gameplay so it’s not much of a surprise that there are a lot of folks still making their way to Captain.” There’s hope though. As Luke explains, “as some of you have found out – once you get to Captain it speeds up again.” Yes I can personally attest to this – once you finally get past WO Grade 3, its smooth sailing and downhill (mostly) from there.

So, what about that level cap then? I asked Luke to shed some light on the issue.

I’m at or near the current rank cap. Please say it’s being raised soon?
Luke: “We definitely have a plan for raising the cap and when those details can be shared, they’ll happily be conveyed here on Bungie.net. As far as “soon” goes, that’s a term that is pretty vague, so I guess your mileage may vary depending on what “soon” means to you.”

Once I hit the level cap, what’s going to happen to the credits that I continue to earn?
Luke: “Nothing, you’re still earning credits once you hit the cap and they are still counting towards your next rank. So, once the level cap is lifted, some players will shoot off into other ranks and get access to new stuff.”
Ok, so why is there a level cap in the first place?
Luke: “There’s a level cap in place for a number of reasons.
First, security: We’ve seen a bunch of games come and go where investment systems got exploited and broken early, completely throwing off the game economy (even though Reach progression is aesthetic only, it’s still important to us to preserve the ecosystem to the best of our ability) so one reason was certainly security. To use a hyperbolic example: If it turned out that teabagging players was giving mountains of Credits (try it, it gives nothing!), we’d have a failsafe in place to make a fix and continue the progression path
Second: We had some ideas on cool ways to lift it via communal effort.”

We should hopefully have more news to share on those “cool communal efforts” very soon and if I were a betting man I’d say that the current cap will be lifted in the next month or two, give or take. In the meantime that gives 99% of you plenty of time to continue playing, ranking up and banking credits while of course, most importantly, just continuing to have fun.
From the horses (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=29120) mouth.

Ellis
October 8th, 2010, 06:59 PM
Definitely not what I wanted to read. I was foolishly, and even I know foolishly hoping for maybe next week, but if it isn't until November, I think I'll work a bit more at the rank this weekend and then stop playing Halo: Reach until they lift the cap. Just because I'm still gaining credits doesn't mean a thing to me honestly. I'm stuck somewhere, and I can't unlock anything so it actually makes the game a bit more boring. I love how since only 30% of the community is above Warrant Officer that they could care less about lifting the cap. And communal effort to lift it? That scares me. No offense to the people here who are the exception, but by and large I wouldn't trust the Halo community to be smart enough to save my god damn life if they had to. >_>

Limited
October 8th, 2010, 07:01 PM
So Bungie is too busy massaging the cocks of MLG fangboys to keep them happy instead of working on elements that ultimately affect every player. Great...

What gets me is the fact Bungie have pretty much said they put the cap in place because they want the community as a whole to progress up the ranks together. They have advertised Reach as having shit tons of armour, to let yourself be unique! More helmets? More people will have different helmets! The cap is limiting that. People at moment only have a select few to pick, yes most people arent at the max, so they still have more to unlock. But the range would be even greater, if cap didnt exist.

The other 'reason' is security, the only thing the cap is doing is limiting the helmets from unlocking. Each player still has all the credits, the only difference, is the fact the rank name and helmet is locked. In my eyes having it locked makes it harder to find people who have hacked, if someone is somehow top rank after 5 days, Bungie can see "oh shit 3 people have inheritor, I'll look into that", if however Bungie see 10,000 people at Lt Colonel, how can the see the hidden stat?

The whole point in ranking systems, is to show that you are different than other players.

If this was H3 ranking system, I would say yes a level cap makes sense, because rank affected matchmaking, in Reach rank only affects the aesthetics of your armour.

So Hitscan == Raytracing

Arteen
October 8th, 2010, 07:27 PM
I just hit max rank, and I really have no problem whatsoever with the rank cap.

Limited
October 8th, 2010, 07:32 PM
What are your thoughts Arteen, about DLC and other content that are on the disk, but locked on launch? Considering that is affectively what Bungie have done, yes its available offline, so technically, we are paying more money, and we get even less content.

Oh and you might all be reading my posts and being like "oh hes butthurt as hes hit the level cap"...yes I am, all the low rank armour pieces are absolute shite.

Ellis
October 8th, 2010, 07:35 PM
I just hit max rank, and I really have no problem whatsoever with the rank cap.

Better person than I am then. o.O Then again I've been at rank cap for more than a week now. *Shrugs*