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View Full Version : Halo: Reach Discussion



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Kornman00
March 12th, 2010, 06:46 AM
Forge was actually pretty sweet in Halo 3. Especially seeing as how no other modern FPS has anything like it (AFAIK), it was the first implementation and will of course have its initial issues. Use to be only the likes of Tony Hawk Pro Skater and all that jazz had it. Man, I can't believe that shit ran on the PS1. That thing was so puny.

SnaFuBAR
March 12th, 2010, 11:38 AM
What made forge shit (for me at least) was the fact that the sandbox was limited as hell in terms of what you could build with. I mean don't get me wrong, they did some very unique things with it and what it allowed people to do, but if they want to do forge maps right they need to introduce modular pieces that users can put together easily and convincingly to create relevant structures. I swear if I have to see any more caves made out of crates...

Heathen
March 12th, 2010, 12:30 PM
Forge will absolutely be making a comeback.

Kornman00
March 12th, 2010, 01:25 PM
What made forge shit (for me at least) was the fact that the sandbox was limited as hell in terms of what you could build with. I mean don't get me wrong, they did some very unique things with it and what it allowed people to do, but if they want to do forge maps right they need to introduce modular pieces that users can put together easily and convincingly to create relevant structures. I swear if I have to see any more caves made out of crates...
What they need to do is release an editing kit :realsmug:

that isn't cropped down :nsmug:

Heathen
March 12th, 2010, 01:37 PM
quote me on this, but I promise it will be cropped down.

Dwood
March 12th, 2010, 02:32 PM
What they need to do is release an editing kit :realsmug:

that isn't cropped down :nsmug:

Import your models into Reach so others can play :dream:

Hunter
March 13th, 2010, 06:45 AM
What they need to do is release an editing kit :realsmug:

that isn't cropped down :nsmug:

That would be rigging amazing. Do Bungie own Halo anymore though? Or are they doing this because Microshizen told them to?

p0lar_bear
March 13th, 2010, 08:07 AM
Given the practical and legal limits of user-created content on LIVE and Microsoft's policies, Forge may be the best we can get, or rather an improved Forge.

At least, for the XBox version.

sevlag
March 13th, 2010, 10:06 AM
Given the practical and legal limits of user-created content on LIVE and Microsoft's policies, Forge may be the best we can get, or rather an improved Forge.

At least, for the XBox version.

yep

Good_Apollo
March 13th, 2010, 10:32 AM
If I remember correctly they should follow the Far Cry level editors. I remember it being easy to use and people actually made maps with it rather than variations of existing maps like with Forge.

t3h m00kz
March 13th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Are you comparing a PC FPS map editor with a console one?

Futzy
March 13th, 2010, 05:49 PM
Are you comparing a PC FPS map editor with a console one?
I'm pretty sure the far cry editor was the same in the console and pc. If reach had something comparable, that would be amazing.

Warsaw
March 13th, 2010, 07:39 PM
It was the same on console and PC. Me and my buddies had an awesome time screwing around making giant cliffs and diving into tiny pools of water below us by jumping out of a falling vehicle.

t3h m00kz
March 13th, 2010, 07:46 PM
That's actually pretty fucking awesome.

sevlag
March 13th, 2010, 08:05 PM
I'm pretty sure the far cry editor was the same in the console and pc. If reach had something comparable, that would be amazing.
it was, i had used the edittor on both PC and xbawx version of far cry, almost the same

Heathen
March 14th, 2010, 04:36 AM
only reason I even own the fucker.

and mookz, I keep thinking you're polar.

Kornman00
March 14th, 2010, 04:39 AM
Problem is that Bungie uses third party modeling programs to create game geometry. It's not created in their proprietary game tools so this wouldn't be a feasible thing to ask

edit: I keep thinking the same thing too Heathen :3

p0lar_bear
March 14th, 2010, 04:45 AM
And I keep thinking those are my posts. :ugh:

Heathen
March 14th, 2010, 08:19 PM
Lol, thats bad.

Darqeness
March 15th, 2010, 05:59 AM
AFAIK Far Cry's map editor was just using heightmap terrain with geometry being made from pre-made meshes. I wouldn't go too far as to think a similar system would be too hard to implement in Reach.

Heathen
March 15th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I actually rather they didn't do it.

All the maps made in the farcry editor were only fun because all the given maps sucked.

Editable terrain in a bungie game would be no good.

Kornman00
March 15th, 2010, 09:15 AM
Nevermind that it would go against their normal data model

Con
March 15th, 2010, 09:22 PM
http://downloads.bungie.net/videos/dam.gif
http://downloads.bungie.net/videos/Waterfall.gif

Disaster
March 15th, 2010, 09:50 PM
The water is beautiful. All it needs is a shoreline effect, similar to Cryengine.

Heathen
March 15th, 2010, 11:19 PM
^this.

Gawd. It creates the illusion of realism perfectly.

Hotrod
March 16th, 2010, 12:48 AM
Where did you find those? They're so...sexy

BobtheGreatII
March 16th, 2010, 12:57 AM
Weekly update on Bungie.

t3h m00kz
March 16th, 2010, 01:02 AM
Lots of interesting shit in those updates.

=sw=warlord
March 16th, 2010, 07:18 AM
images
Am I the only one who feels a little disappointed by that water?
It looks more like a fog volume with a reflection than water to me.

E: just stumbled cross a interesting concept art.
http://halo.heavengames.com/albums/halo_wars_unit_concepts/UNSC_Falcon_Cut.jpg

Hotrod
March 16th, 2010, 09:40 AM
Weekly update on Bungie.
Really? I read through it, and I don't remember seeing that water...

EDIT : Nevermind, I went back again and found them

annihilation
March 16th, 2010, 11:02 AM
I didn't notice the plants near the water were moving.

I don't recal them having moving foliage in Halo 3.
The water looks pretty good. Seems like the water would be more violent though.

Heathen
March 16th, 2010, 01:44 PM
I don't recal them having moving foliage in Halo 3.


they did.

And I too am not very impressed.

Warsaw
March 16th, 2010, 04:13 PM
Not very impressed. Sure, it moves nicely, but it doesn't look like water. If they get away from using cubemaps and switch to some real-time reflections (or a very good simulation like Source did with HL2), then you may colour me impressed.

English Mobster
March 17th, 2010, 01:49 AM
Yeah, compared to Source, that water's no good. :saddowns:

flibitijibibo
March 17th, 2010, 01:55 AM
It looks more like Halo 3's water with weird colors and a foam texture on top of it (Halo 3's literally just being a perfectly clear bluish fluid (seriously, it didn't even reflect anything)).

ICEE
March 17th, 2010, 02:02 AM
I am on this yucky water bandwagon.

English Mobster
March 17th, 2010, 02:10 AM
Stages of hype about Bungie visuals:
Reveal/First trailer: HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK THAT LOOKS AWESOME
Second trailer: Huh. Not quite as good as the first, but the visuals still look pretty good.
First major screenshots revealed: Visuals look alright.
Second batch of screenshots: Bleh. Not really liking that. I hope they change it.
BETA: They got the gameplay down pat, but the visuals leave much to be desired. Oh well, it's only a beta.
Pre-release hype: HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK
RELEASE: HELL YEAH! Graphics haven't changed much since the beta, though.
1 month post-release: At least the game's pretty fun.
2 months post-release: You know, compared to the other games coming out now, these graphics SUCK.

Bungie: Masters of gameplay, not so much in the visual department.

Kornman00
March 17th, 2010, 05:12 AM
Better to be a master at gameplay than visual. It's like picking between having sex and looking at porn. Do you really want to wank off some visual just imagining what it would be like, or would you rather get down and dirty?

Hundreds of thousands of Halo XBL games are played everyday. How many other games from 2007 can say that?

Rob Oplawar
March 17th, 2010, 11:15 AM
I seem to recall the outdoor visuals in Halo CE being very impressive when it first came out. Subsequent games undoubtedly beat Halo, but when the xbox first came out Halo had very competitive visuals.

I agree with Korn to an extent. But to another extent, I'm shallow, and I like pretty things. But it's not like Halo has ever looked bad; Halo has always been reasonably good-looking. :P

Kornman00
March 17th, 2010, 11:59 AM
People continue to enjoy Halo CE too. I think that says something. Other than the fact that H2V wasn't successful enough at the time to replace it heh.

E: if anything, graphics should just be used to get the game out the door (the selling factor). Gameplay should be the contingency factor as it takes longer for that to grow old or get replaced by something more of value

Atty
March 17th, 2010, 01:38 PM
The reflections in this game are all wrong, I want my money back.

PlasbianX
March 17th, 2010, 05:47 PM
The reflections in this game are all wrong, I want my money back.

If you don't like it, bend over and take it up the arse and don't buy it.

flibitijibibo
March 17th, 2010, 06:03 PM
He's joking.

Also, this last page or so reminds me of this (http://www.destructoid.com/why-sonic-the-hedgehog-4-will-suck-166221.phtml), haha.

=sw=warlord
March 17th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Better to be a master at gameplay than visual. It's like picking between having sex and looking at porn. Do you really want to wank off some visual just imagining what it would be like, or would you rather get down and dirty?


depends if the chick your getting down and dirty with is a whale or not, if so then porn it is.

Heathen
March 17th, 2010, 08:57 PM
depends if the chick your getting down and dirty with is a whale or not, if so then porn it is.

clearly you are wrong

ugly girl > porn

ODX
March 17th, 2010, 09:00 PM
What I always loved about Halo, is how it was a sci-fi shooter... but it just had it's own individual feel from the rest in terms of graphics. The creativity is, let's face it, beautiful.

Bungie uses their brains, not photographs, and that's why I love them.

Give them some credit for not trying to simulate perfect water, and going for their own little style for their own made up planet.

Warsaw
March 17th, 2010, 10:15 PM
What? Water is water and will always behave a certain way...even muddy water has reflections.

Your statement is invalid.

That being said, I do hope the gameplay is excellent and I hope they do keep focusing on that. However, it's all part of the experience. Gameplay can be the best ever but certain graphical elements will diminish the feel just the same as shitty controls might diminish a game's experience, or shitty audio (MW2).

=sw=warlord
March 18th, 2010, 09:34 AM
What? Water is water and will always behave a certain way...even muddy water has reflections.

Your statement is invalid.
.
Aha funny man.
different planet, different environmental make up and different gravity all together, elements on one planet may not react the same due to nearly a infinite number of different variables.

Kornman00
March 18th, 2010, 11:06 AM
also, alien fish jizz

Warsaw
March 18th, 2010, 12:51 PM
Unless it's really fucking frozen with bubbles trapped, it will still have reflections (and at that point we call it ice and/or snow). You are missing the point. What most of us are bawing about is the shitty reflections, not its density values. This water is clearly a liquid, meaning it isn't frozen, and it should look like water as opposed to a puke-coloured bedsheet sitting on top of the water.

And yes, even under different conditions water will still behave like water. Definition of water.

Warsaw
March 18th, 2010, 12:52 PM
Aha funny man.
different planet, different environmental make up and different gravity all together, elements on one planet may not react the same due to nearly a infinite number of different variables.

Unless it's really fucking frozen with bubbles trapped, it will still have reflections (and at that point we call it ice and/or snow). You are missing the point. What most of us are bawing about is the shitty reflections, not its density values. This water is clearly a liquid, meaning it isn't frozen, and it should look like water as opposed to a puke-coloured bedsheet sitting on top of the water.

And yes, even under different conditions water will still behave like water. Definition of water.

Kornman00
March 18th, 2010, 01:13 PM
Assuming the stream is actually composed of H2O, then yes, "water". However, the shallowness of the water and global lighting (or lack thereof due to clouds) play as a factor.

Since both gifs were of areas by a waterfall source or an area where a rapids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapids) effect is taking place the "omg no reflections in dat water :saddowns:" is just really fucking lame.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/!downstream_river1.jpg
http://downloads.bungie.net/videos/dam.gif


In the end, it's a fucking game that is about combat. Are water reflections in turbulent water really that fucking important? And don't give me any "immersion" bullshit. Maybe if this was Tomb Raider or something but this is Halo. It doesn't need photo realism. So can we go back to talking about actual gameplay related topics?

=sw=warlord
March 18th, 2010, 01:17 PM
Unless it's really fucking frozen with bubbles trapped, it will still have reflections (and at that point we call it ice and/or snow).
Still different conditions which you missed, i wont bother going into more details as it really wouldn't get much understanding anyways, carry on thinking water is the same every where in the universe...
.You are missing the point. What most of us are bawing about is the shitty reflections, not its density values.You're bawwing over a stupid detail, atleast this water is 3D unlike so many others. This water is clearly a liquid, meaning it isn't frozen, and it should look like water as opposed to a puke-coloured bedsheet sitting on top of the water.

And yes, even under different conditions water will still behave like water. Definition of water.
Two parts hydrogen, 1 part oxygen fused together is the definition of water, not it's physical form.
.

Warsaw
March 18th, 2010, 01:20 PM
Look how cool you are using the excuse "I don't care" to avoid backing up your purported knowledge of chemistry! :allears:

H2O will always behave like H2O, so yes, definition of water. L2 chemical and physical properties. Rapids still have reflections when you get up close, and since it's up close, I can't see why it looks like a matte, translucent object. Both of you are stretching it. Most of what we saw weren't rapids but fairly gentle waves. If those were supposed to be rapids then they have some work to do...but it is an alpha so not much to say at this point. The only instances of matte water I can think of are the actual white caps, ice that has a jagged surface on the very small scale, ice with bubbles in it, ice with dirt or some other particulate in it (particularly on the surface), steam, or water that's been supersaturated with a solute. Aside from the last one, none of those are actually matte but just so small in their reflections that you can't discern anything other than the brightest source of light shining off of it merging together to form one colour, and otherwise scatter any light trying to pass through it. Also note that most of them are frozen. Did that water look frozen to you? Did that water look like a vapour to you? Did it look supersaturated? If you know something that I don't, then I pray thee tell.

So yes, your statements are still invalid. I said it and I'll say it again: small things like this take away from the experience. A game can be fun, but when one runs across a particularly heinous texture or a badly proportioned NPC, often one will pause and go "wow, they could have done that better" or "really now, an extra day of production would be worth it to make this worth it." Not sure about you, but I'd rather have flat water that looks like water than a bunch of tris that don't.

On a somewhat related note, I wonder if they'll make it such that you can crouch in a deep enough source of water or hide in foliage to actually fool the AI and set an ambush. I get tired of games where I know that there is no way in hell that my signature is visible against the environment unless I move, yet they still shoot at me anyways with frightening accuracy.

Saggy
March 18th, 2010, 01:46 PM
The beta test for Halo: Reach is set to begin on May 3 for owners of Halo 3: ODST. Until today, Bungie has been tight-lipped about new features and improvements coming to Reach's multiplayer game, releasing only one multiplayer trailer (http://www.shackvideo.com/?id=17441). Yesterday, I spoke with the team at Bungie for a preview of some of the new features for Halo: Reach's multiplayer offering, including Active Roster, Queue-Joining, and the extremely exciting "Arena" system.

http://www.shacknews.com/images/sshots/Screenshot/14167/14167_4ba267aee56f0_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14167&game_id=7592#152073)http://www.shacknews.com/images/sshots/Screenshot/13813/13813_4b74a333ec0f3_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=13813&game_id=7592#148643)
Halo: Reach's new UI and a shot from singleplayer.
Now, I've played a good amount (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Halo3/Default.aspx?player=empathe360) of Halo 3 and Bungie's plans for Reach have me extremely excited. What follows will be pretty in-depth and assume some knowledge of Halo 3's multiplayer, but I'll try to explain things in as much detail as possible. New Features:



Active Roster - This is a throwback to Halo 2. When you boot up Reach, right at the main menu or lobby, you'll see a list of what your Xbox Live friends are doing within Reach. You'll get detailed information about any friends playing Reach including who they are partied with, what game they are in (plus score and remaining time), and more.

http://www.shacknews.com/extras/spotart/matchmaking.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14167&game_id=7592#152072)


Basically, Bungie wants to make it so that you do not have to utilize the Xbox Live Guide to find out what your buddies are doing in Reach. Queue-Joining - In Halo 3, it was difficult to join friends that were already playing in a match. You had to wait until they were finished. If you started a game while you waited, they would then have to wait for you. Instead of going back and forth, Reach will support queue-joining. Simply put, Reach will automatically join up as soon as your friends are joinable.
Improved Voting System - Halo: Reach will utilize a new voting system, which Bungie described as "Veto 2.0". Each playlist will provide players with four options. The first will be a combination of map and gametype, much like you would see in Halo 3. The other three options will offer players additional choices to vote on. Thankfully, you'll know up front what your four options are so you no longer have to risk voting down a favored map, but unfavored gametype and getting an unfavored combination.

http://www.shacknews.com/extras/spotart/veto.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14167&game_id=7592#152073)


Behind-the-scenes, a lot of work has been done to give more flexibility to the playlist designers. A designer could, for example, ensure that the first choice is always Team Slayer on a set of 3 popular maps, but offer different gametypes in the additional choices. Arena Playlists - Possibly the largest change coming in Halo: Reach is the Arena. This is a Slayer and Team Slayer set of playlists entirely geared toward the hardcore. If that wasn't enough, players will be rated and placed into skill divisions in month-long seasons.
The rating system is smart enough to realize that kills aren't the other determining factor behind skill. This is especially true for team games where assists play a huge roll. Similarly, players that have a greater kill/death ratio (had more kills than deaths) will rank higher than players that die as much as they kill.
The divisions are Onyx, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Steel. It is possible to move up or down within a single season. To qualify for ranking, players will have to play a certain number of games a day to gain a "Daily Ranking", which will be an average of a player's best games from the day. To get a divisional ranking and compete in a season, players will need a certain number of Daily Rankings.

http://www.shacknews.com/images/sshots/Screenshot/13813/13813_4b74a33abeffc_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=13813&game_id=7592&id=148645)http://www.shacknews.com/images/sshots/Screenshot/13813/13813_4b74a337c1fdc_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=13813&game_id=7592&id=148644)


Casual gametypes will not appear in Arena playlists. You won't be seeing Rocket Race or Fiesta here. Even though Arena is geared toward top-level players, it should help less skilled players avoid being matched up against people they have no chance of winning against.
Ranked and Social Combined - Since the hardcore will be in the Arena, Bungie doesn't want to further splinter the community. In Halo 3, Ranked and Social playlists served two different purposes. Ranked games were generally of a higher quality, while social games were more casual.
In Reach, the playlists will be smart enough to put you and your party in the proper match based upon how many players you have. Say you're looking for a game in a four-on-four playlist. If you bring four people, Reach will attempt to match your team against another group of four at a similar skill level. If you go in with more than four, it will properly split your party across the teams and fill in the blanks with additional players.
Streamlined Party-Up - After a Halo 3 match, players were presented with the option to "Party Up" and merge lobbies with all willing players. In Reach, it will be an opt-out system. After a match, players will be kept together and it will automatically roll into looking for the next match. The system is flexible enough to allow Bungie to determine, per playlist, whether to keep a team together and find a new set of opponents or keep an entire game together and move onto the next map.

http://www.shacknews.com/extras/spotart/party.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14167&game_id=7592#152074)




Matchmaking Connection Options - The options for finding games in matchmaking will be more open to the player, if they so choose. If you only ever want to play in games with a good connection, that can be set in the options. If you only ever want to play against players of a similar skill, that can be set. The same goes for finding players that speak to same language. Social Settings - In addition to these connection options, players can rate themselves along four axes to add another layer of criteria to the matchmaking. These won't trump anything else, but it will help Bungie build better teams. Players will define their playstyle in the following four categories:

Teamwork - Team Player vs. Lone Wolf
Motivation - Winning vs. Having Fun
Chattiness - Chatty vs. Quiet
Tone - Polite vs. Rowdy





http://www.shacknews.com/extras/spotart/social.jpg (http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14167&game_id=7592#152075)


This allows Bungie, for example, to try and build a team of chatty, polite, team-playing, winners in serious playlists.

These new features are a huge part of Halo: Reach and should help foster a better community than Halo 3 or Halo 2. Personally, I'm extremely excited about the Arena system. I've been having a lot of fun in the StarCraft II beta test with Blizzard's Leagues & Ladders system. Arena is the same concept. It should also help alleviate the epidemic of smurfing (creating new Xbox Live accounts) to give maxed out players something to do in Halo 3. Instead of starting over, destroying noobs and reclimbing the skill charts, these top-level players will be encouraged to play season-after-season in the Arena and be meaningfully compared to each other. It's a system that has been a long-time-coming to a first-person shooter.
Look for more coverage on Halo: Reach from Shacknews soon and get ready for the beta, which begins on May 3rd. The full game will be released exclusively for the Xbox 360 this fall. See you online!

Copypasta from Shacknews

Kornman00
March 18th, 2010, 02:20 PM
H2O will always behave like H2O, so yes, definition of water. L2 chemical and physical properties. Rapids still have reflections when you get up close, and since it's up close, I can't see why it looks like a matte, translucent object.
Can't see why? Well to start off, it's a game and to add it's game where the developer has never gone on to say they're trying to create a photo realistic world. This is Halo. It's always had it's own look. Go outside if you want to stare at yourself in the water. If your mind is really that worried about your lack of reflection in the game's liquids then I have to wonder what use you are when the shit starts hitting the fan in-game.



Both of you are stretching it. Most of what we saw weren't rapids but fairly gentle waves.

I said a rapid effect. Not explicitly that they were river rapids.



So yes, your statements are still invalid. I said it and I'll say it again: small things like this take away from the experience. A game can be fun, but when one runs across a particularly heinous texture or a badly proportioned NPC, often one will pause and go "wow, they could have done that better" or "really now, an extra day of production would be worth it to make this worth it." Not sure about you, but I'd rather have flat water that looks like water than a bunch of tris that don't.
Have you ever stopped to consider the ramifications having reflections on a level's water could be to computation (they still support split screen remember)? That perhaps maybe they wanted to distribute the amount of detail in all aspects of the game world so other details didn't feel unbalanced? If they went ahead and satisfied your need for reflections while sacrificing some other photo realistic detail then you'd just be going off and baaawwwww'ing about that.

The argument of having "bland" water is "invalid" too as your mind would now pick out on this detail which doesn't sit right with the level of detail put into the rest of the world.

Have you ever considered hibernating or cryosleeping until Virtual Reality (ie, Holodecks) are consumable and cost effective? Or would you then go on to complain that since you can't touch and feel the objects in game yet that it takes away from the experience?

Siliconmaster
March 18th, 2010, 02:39 PM
I saw the new stuff about the multiplayer- looks really cool. I'm looking forward to the new matchmaking options, and also to seeing how the new playlists work in practice. The new veto system is brilliant, and the opt-out option at the end of a match instead of the party-up system from H3 sounds a lot like MW2, which actually works pretty well from my experience.

teh lag
March 18th, 2010, 02:39 PM
Kornmad00

I think it's more about the fact that they were parading the water effects like a brilliant addition to the game when, in fact, they're just okay water effects.

Kornman00
March 18th, 2010, 02:53 PM
Well comparing to the previous Halo engines it is looking better. When we actually get hands on with the Beta we'll get to truly judge just how grander they've made liquid physics interact with the world. After all, physics not only includes the light spectrum but also physical attributes like viscosity. The water isn't just a render effect. Since Halo 3 they've made it geometry of it's own, to where it should be feasible to do something Warsaw was diving into with sneaking up on an enemy (AI or human) while submerged in murky depths like that of water along a shore line.

Heathen
March 18th, 2010, 03:11 PM
Aha funny man.
different planet, different environmental make up and different gravity all together, elements on one planet may not react the same due to nearly a infinite number of different variables.

Gravity won't stop reflections :downs:

=sw=warlord
March 18th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Gravity won't stop reflections :downs:
I've yet to see a reflection on coloured gas.

flibitijibibo
March 18th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Shush about the water, it's probably not even a beta shot. Way to ruin a perfectly good joke.

About the multiplayer article: How well do they really think that category system will work? I'd bet anything a bunch of 12 year old faggots will go in the "having fun/polite" sections just to make assclowns of themselves.

I really like the idea on paper though.

jcap
March 18th, 2010, 04:48 PM
http://www.shacknews.com/images/image-o-matic.x?/images/sshots/Screenshot/14167/14167_4ba267ad8c993.jpg

http://jcap.h2vista.net/files/halo/sexyui1.jpg



http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/emot-argh.gif

Kornman00
March 18th, 2010, 05:16 PM
sry boss, but you don't have a gass giant (with rings!) in the background

Also, they destroyed your ODG. Just to show you how much better they are than you :realsmug:

jcap
March 18th, 2010, 06:01 PM
Yeah, in the convos I had with Lightning, we were planning to have debris in space from the destroyed platforms, like the Athens and Malta.

Heck, I can't believe they even did the dark to light transition that I had planned. Notice how it's dark in the bottom left and it's bright on the horizon? Yep.

Kornman00
March 18th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Physics beat you both to the bat :snafubar:

Roostervier
March 18th, 2010, 06:26 PM
I've yet to see a reflection on coloured gas.
haha, glad that applies to liquid water too

=sw=warlord
March 18th, 2010, 06:31 PM
haha, glad that applies to liquid water too
Liquid is only defined by the viscosity of the substance, which in it self is defined by how dense the substance is from the gravity holding it like that, like for instance water in air boils to steam at 100C but if you had something compressing the water to a certain point it could be kept as a liquid instead of it being a gas.

Roostervier
March 18th, 2010, 06:35 PM
so basically you just told me that, despite different environmental factors, it could still be reflective, right?

=sw=warlord
March 18th, 2010, 06:48 PM
so basically you just told me that, despite different environmental factors, it could still be reflective, right?
Depends on how you mean reflective, as in reflects white blurred light or reflective as in like a mirror?
Either way, i think both me and kornman have already addressed it as much as it's needed to be addressed.

Kornman00
March 18th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Yeah, I think we can just leave real world physics debating out of a game where time and space ('sup Shield Worlds) can be manipulated.

Next topic about Reach!

CtrlAltDestroy
March 18th, 2010, 07:02 PM
Liquid is only defined by the viscosity of the substance, which in it self is defined by how dense the substance is from the gravity holding it like that, like for instance water in air boils to steam at 100C but if you had something compressing the water to a certain point it could be kept as a liquid instead of it being a gas.

Wrong. Normally I don't reply to posts like this but your ineptitude in the fields of physics and chemistry is literally pissing me off.

Gravity does not hold molecules of a substance together, intermolecular forces do (ie: LD forces, dipole forces). Molecules are composed of atoms, which are composed of a nucleus and electrons. The electrons are in orbit around the nucleus (or, if you want to use the quantum model, they are in probability clouds around the nucleus; it makes no difference). As such, there will be instances where an atom of a molecule is configured such that one end of the atom is more negatively charged than the other end of the atom, due to the probable positions of the electrons at that point in time. Conversely, the other end of the atom is therefore slightly more positively charged (referred to a dipole). If an atom in an adjacent molecule undergoes the same phenomenon, and is aligned such that the negative end of the atom is facing the positive end of the atom in the adjacent molecule (i wont go into the quantum details), then--well, im pretty sure even you are smart enough to know that opposite charges experience an attractive force. This is an LD (london dispersion) force, which happens to be the weakest kind of intermolecular force.

A dipole-dipole force is somewhat similar in concept. For example, water is a polar molecule (hopefully you know that), as an oxygen atom has a higher electronegativity than a hydrogen atom. I wont go into the details, you can look it up yourself. At any rate, this causes the oxygen portion of the molecule to have a more negative charge than the hydrogen ends. You can guess what happens next. Im not going to waste time explaining


http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-science.gif



got dam

=sw=warlord
March 18th, 2010, 07:37 PM
Hmm, thanks for the interesting read CAD, i appologise that you literaly got angry, i guess im going to have to scratch up on my physics at some point, I was under the understanding it was Gravity that held it together, after a documentary i had watched several years back in which there was a point where a astronaught had found a phenomenon involving particles after shaking a snow globe.
I am a big enough man to admit when i am wrong, and so i appologise.

p0lar_bear
March 18th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Gravity keeps it all in one place. Liquids in pressurized zero-g environments (spacecraft...) sticks together like little bubbles iirc.

TeeKup
March 18th, 2010, 09:25 PM
I've been apart of this community for a long time so you'd think I wouldn't be surprised that a group of people would get angry over water. Holy shit guys.

Disaster
March 18th, 2010, 09:31 PM
I've been apart of this community for a long time so you'd think I wouldn't be surprised that a group of people would get angry over water. Holy shit guys.

Well, who doesn't get mad over such game defining issues? :allears:

Siliconmaster
March 18th, 2010, 09:38 PM
I've been apart of this community for a long time so you'd think I wouldn't be surprised that a group of people would get angry over water. Holy shit guys.

I think I have to second this. I've seen some pretty ridiculous arguments in this community, but this one may take the cake.

sdavis117
March 18th, 2010, 09:43 PM
Once the effects of gravity on water got involved in this, it just went downhill.

On a better topic, am I the only one who thinks the Halo Reach multiplayer just looks like too much stuff is in it?

ejburke
March 18th, 2010, 09:54 PM
This thread is making me have to pee.

Warsaw
March 18th, 2010, 09:57 PM
Look at these people looking up chemistry topics on Wikipedia and then spouting it out like they know what they are talking about, ignoring the fact that their points are completely irrelevant to what Bungie showed us in that .gif animation and will still be completely irrelevant even when applied to other affects! Korn, what I'm saying is that it looks worse than water they've had in the past. A flat bunch of tris bobbing around does not look as much like water as a cubemap with some well-designed effects. Yes, I am well aware of the computations required, and I'm not saying that I must have RTR in the water. What I'm saying is that they parade this overhauled engine like it's something genuinely impressive, and what they've demoed is less impressive than what a six year old engine can do, in it's original release state no less.

And technically, you could have been able to hide under water with previous effects. Just have a system that checks if part of your avatar is visible over the substance, and if not, then you are invisible to the AI...similar to Assassins Creed's "blending." Again, this bobbing mass of tris is irrelevant.

@sdavis117: I agree. It feels like this is becoming Unreal Tournament: Halo Edition as opposed to another installment in the series. I dunno about you guys, but I hardly play multiplayer and I buy the game for its campaign and story. Unless it has a bang-up single-player, I'm going to be sorely disappointed, again.

Heathen
March 18th, 2010, 10:01 PM
We aren't saying the water is going to ruin the game, just why flaunt ugly water like its the next Jessica Alba?

CtrlAltDestroy
March 18th, 2010, 10:20 PM
Look at these people looking up chemistry topics on Wikipedia and then spouting it out like they know what they are talking about

It really is upsetting to see that the intellectual quality of these forums has degraded (if there was anything to degrade in the first place) to a point where any sort of intelligent discussion is regarded merely as "Wikipedia regurgitation". What really sticks in my side is ignorance; nothing irritates me more.

On the actual topic, I could care less about the quality of the water in this game. The last thing I'm going to be doing while I'm playing it is stopping to inspect every single visual detail. If it looks decently like water, its water. However, I do agree it's nothing for Bungie to tout in their weekly update as anything significant or of value.

ICEE
March 18th, 2010, 10:44 PM
guys im still mad about the water.

We should not get over this. We should not get on to a better topic.

Lets all just stay mad

about the water.

ejburke
March 18th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Hey guys, what do you suppose is the deuterium-to-hydrogen ratio for that Reach water? I'll lose my SHIT if it's anything over 2X Earth oceanic levels.

PlasbianX
March 18th, 2010, 11:17 PM
I like the changes to match making. As long as I dont get the stupid open nat error crap though It'll be good.

Kornman00
March 19th, 2010, 06:16 AM
Yeah, I think we can just leave real world physics debating out of a game where time and space ('sup Shield Worlds) can be manipulated.

Next topic about Reach!
Instead of handing out infractions for the continued mess of this thread or branching all of those posts into their own thread, I'm just going to lock it up until anymore interesting (or even just new) news come about of Reach. That way you're all forced to drop the fucking subject and move on to something with more meaning.

If you think you have some serious talk to contribute to this thread (that isn't bawwwwwwww'ing over the properties of atoms and laws of physics in a game), PM and I'll consider unlocking it for you.

FRain
March 19th, 2010, 08:14 AM
Alright, since I started the thread, I'm unlocking it, but only because I found another interesting little tidbit.

http://www.shacknews.com/images/image-o-matic.x?/images/sshots/Screenshot/14167/14167_4ba267b21d289.jpg

Notice how it says 104cR in the bottom right corner? Is this for buying stuff (perks, weapon upgrades/etc) or is it just another way to describe EXP?

Now, listen carefully. Shut the fuck up about the water or I'll just have to relock it? K? And I'm sure Kornman will infract your shit.

Kornman00
March 19th, 2010, 08:18 AM
It sounds like a credit abbrv. but since it's so close to and grouped with the rank bar it may be "current Rank", meaning how many points you have in the current rank or something

but I could have sworn cR has been used to describe credits before in other sci-fi settings (ie, star-trek)

FRain
March 19th, 2010, 08:24 AM
Well, last I remember that U.N.S.C. Currency was described by cR, but then again it might be EXP because its so close to the rank, that I'm going to guess it's just a new word for EXP.

sevlag
March 19th, 2010, 09:53 AM
Once the effects of gravity on water got involved in this, it just went downhill.

On a better topic, am I the only one who thinks the Halo Reach multiplayer just looks like too much stuff is in it?
it does seem like alot, but alot isnt bad

also CR DOES refer to credits in some sci-fi settings, but i think for the sake of halo it means Current Rank

ODX
March 19th, 2010, 03:36 PM
On a better topic, am I the only one who thinks the Halo Reach multiplayer just looks like too much stuff is in it?Well, there's going to be quite a lot of players playing the game and a lot of variety is sure going to keep them all playing for a long time to come. Plus, games now-a-days just have to, in general, have a really in-depth multiplayer component or else it falls short of competition (MW2).

jcap
March 19th, 2010, 04:02 PM
I just hope they can keep multiplayer simple - no "classes" or kits or anything like that. I like the idea of the perks, but I want to believe that is only as far as they are taking it. If they just leave it as something that you set as an armor permutation from the settings screen and can't change mid-game, they will add a nice little feature without going overboard.

I hate class systems. It really kills my definition of balance, since you need to make sure all starting weapons are basically equal. Balance, to me, doesn't lie with the weapons, but with the map. Make weapons as overpowered as you want, but limit their use and design the maps to work against the weapon. "Balance" has turned into a load of bullshit ever since Halo 2, and it only got worse in Halo 3.

Then all this shit about buying weapon upgrades is dumb as fuck too. I don't want to be playing someone who has a weapon 2x better than me that I can't get. You should ALL start out on the same foot, and only win by your true skill, not by the number of upgrades you have. Also, especially since Halo ranking deals with Truskill, any bit of unfair advantages would completely shit all over the stats system. They would need to ditch Truskill (keep it hidden and use for matchmaking purposes only) and create a points system.

Sasc
March 19th, 2010, 05:38 PM
Two more articles have been posted here (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62873) and here (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62887). Also, a Bungie employee was answering questions in this thread (http://www.bungie.net/forums/posts.aspx?postID=42231833&postRepeater1-p=1).

I'm hoping that they don't concentrate too much on the competitive side of multiplayer.

ODX
March 19th, 2010, 05:44 PM
@Jcap

Bottom of page 3 in the thread where questions are being answered:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2h67syb.jpg

jcap
March 19th, 2010, 07:13 PM
They would need to ditch Truskill (keep it hidden and use for matchmaking purposes only) and create a points system.
OH MY GOD! WEEKLY UPDATE!!!


weíre using an updated version of Trueskill to ensure fair and competitive matches even though itís not being displayed or being used to inform your ďrankĒ anymore. Trust us, itís there.
ABOUT FUCKING TIME! It's only what I've been saying forever...

Cagerrin
March 19th, 2010, 07:51 PM
http://www.bungie.net/images/News/BWU10/0319/sm/REACH_MP-Beta-UI_FFA_Veto.jpg

oh. damn.

think about the map preview for a sec

sevlag
March 19th, 2010, 08:56 PM
are we NOT gonna be able to play TS and stuff like CTF in the beta because all i see are the headhunter GT and KoTH in several beta screens

CodeBrain
March 19th, 2010, 09:48 PM
are we NOT gonna be able to play TS and stuff like CTF in the beta because all i see are the headhunter GT and KoTH in several beta screens

Thats what they said about the Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta, and guess what happened?

Custom Gametypes, Last Resort as a playable beta map, etc.

Same thing happened in Halo Trial as well, so don't think Reach has no way of playing other gametypes.

Kornman00
March 19th, 2010, 10:06 PM
oh. damn.

think about the map preview for a sec
re-envisioned prisoner? I remember that spot from the trailer tho, when he goes up that man cannon

English Mobster
March 19th, 2010, 11:11 PM
Prisoner? I was thinking Rat Race for some reason.
I'm probably wrong (as usual), as I think Rat Race was PC-only, wasn't it?

E: BRING BACK CHRION.

Warsaw
March 20th, 2010, 12:33 AM
Rat Race was definitely on XBOX too. One of the best maps ever, and I'd love to see it return.

sevlag
March 20th, 2010, 07:48 AM
rat race and prisoner because it was sorta fun

Lateksi
March 20th, 2010, 08:40 AM
That Sword Base map looks like Boarding Action or Prisoner... As for Rat Race, the map would fit the game indeed.

jcap
March 20th, 2010, 12:23 PM
LMAO, the retards on the Bungie forums are so MAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDD that they can't stroke their 1 inch dick with their level 50 accounts anymore!

:D

PlasbianX
March 20th, 2010, 12:47 PM
LMAO, the retards on the Bungie forums are so MAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDD that they can't stroke their 1 inch dick with their level 50 accounts anymore!

:D

Wait, does the rank reset every 'season' for all gametypes or is it just the arena ones?

Siliconmaster
March 20th, 2010, 12:49 PM
The Arena ranks reset, but the others don't. However, I do not believe that there is the same sort of "highest rank" system in Reach as there was in H3, since the TrueSkill system is no longer visible, but instead working in the background to give you the best games.


Posted by: xXDarkCrimsonXx
Just so I am clear, one last time, playing Social playlists will not make my overall level on Bungie.net go up, correct?

I will remain a "visible" level 1 as long as I stay out of the Ranked playlists, right?



Answer:

There's no more concept of "Ranked" and "Social" playlists, and no more "overall level" on Bungie.net driven by playlist skill. So the answer is "mu".

The new "overall level" mechanism should be described in greater detail soon though.

flibitijibibo
March 20th, 2010, 02:06 PM
LMAO, the retards on the Bungie forums are so MAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDD that they can't stroke their 1 inch dick with their level 50 accounts anymore!

:D

Links, I want to enjoy this.

Atty
March 20th, 2010, 02:20 PM
I think Bungie has been secretly spying on my conversations with other Halo fans and has thusly stolen all of my good ideas.

jcap
March 20th, 2010, 02:24 PM
Links, I want to enjoy this.
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=42222851
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=42255909
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=42256714
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=42258718 < "People who don't care about rank! It's ludicrous!"
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=42252813

Heathen
March 20th, 2010, 02:27 PM
Rat Race was definitely on XBOX too. One of the best maps ever, and I'd love to see it return.
Amen.

Kornman00
March 20th, 2010, 02:34 PM
Or just give us an editing kit so we can do it ourselves :rolleyes:

Atty
March 20th, 2010, 04:38 PM
Wow, reading through those B.Net posts jfap linked to is making me not want to buy this game; mainly because it reminds me of what the Halo community is really like underneath our sheathe of awesome.

flibitijibibo
March 20th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Which is why we should move to TF2/HL2/UT3/Anything else for the love of GOD.

Yeah, those posts were depressing. I guarantee you half of the "HURR I ARE 50" laugh at WoW players without so much as a second thought (or even a first). Let K/D and W/L serve as your e-peens, morons.

FRain
March 20th, 2010, 05:58 PM
Which is why we should move to TF2/HL2/UT3/Anything else for the love of GOD.

Yeah, those posts were depressing. I guarantee you half of the "HURR I ARE 50" laugh at WoW players without so much as a second thought (or even a first). Let K/D and W/L serve as your e-peens, morons.

While I do agree with this, that isn't a logical reason to boycott a game. There'll always be stupid people and you can't do anything about that. It's like saying lets boycott youtube because 90% of the commenters are "first" "dont read this otherwise you die in 4 hours..." "fake" "fake" "simpsons did it" "first" "i hate jews to hahahahah"

flibitijibibo
March 20th, 2010, 06:17 PM
Wasn't saying boycott it, was just saying that Halo sucks now.

Kornman00
March 20th, 2010, 07:17 PM
Which is why we should move to TF2/HL2/UT3/Anything else for the love of GOD.
Every community is going to have it's shit holes. Let's just be thankful they're all mostly clogged up at b.net...let Bungie flush 'em out.

sevlag
March 20th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Wow, reading through those B.Net posts jfap linked to is making me not want to buy this game; mainly because it reminds me of what the Halo community is really like underneath our sheathe of awesome.
shit and useless people?

t3h m00kz
March 20th, 2010, 07:51 PM
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=41862656&postRepeater1-p=1

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=41956627&postRepeater1-p=1

Rediculous?

No waaaay :allears:

Most of the topics on those forums are a bunch of pre-teens obsessed with Recon Armor and Machinema, who have obviously never had to use a computer seriously in their lives. Our community may not be a shining example of "perfect" but it sure beats that.

p0lar_bear
March 20th, 2010, 08:25 PM
IMO, that Divide guy is the embodiment of what's wrong with Halo 3's community. There's good within the H3 community and all, but if you want to know about the minority undesirables, look no further.

He has an alt "warmup" account, obsesses over his ranks like they actually mean something, and bashes people who complain about the system, regardless of their rank. If the complainer has a low skill rank, bonus points.

e: Oh god, the teabag, thread, lmao. Another good example of the worst of the worst.

sevlag
March 20th, 2010, 09:05 PM
its sad that people out there think that the halo 3 ranking system is perfect

hopefully there is some sort of BTB, because everygame needs a BTB gametype :D

Kornman00
March 24th, 2010, 04:25 AM
Ok, obviously people don't know when to drop shit, so to back up the "Now, no more on this whole water thing, please" let me just state that the next (and every) person to even bring up the fucking water will get an Insubordination infraction which carries 3 points.

I've already tried giving out textual warnings. I guess those don't work. I don't even care if you are trying to set a record straight; you can use PMs for that.

sevlag
March 24th, 2010, 09:58 AM
so that waterjust kidding...

saw some MP footage from IGN or wherever i forget and it looks nice. I'm wondering if we'll be able to use the custom games glitch like with H3 beta and the beta of bionic commando

oh and kornman, Halo Wars this week? last friday i was busy

Kornman00
March 24th, 2010, 10:32 AM
lost my internet connection for the time being, can't get on live from home :\

jcap
March 24th, 2010, 02:49 PM
lost my internet connection for the time being, can't get on live from home :\
Just play Assassin's Creed 2 PC

......oh wait.

Good_Apollo
March 24th, 2010, 03:32 PM
Just play Assassin's Creed 2 PC

......oh wait.Zing! Take that corporate gaming world!

Kornman00
March 25th, 2010, 03:51 AM
Just play Assassin's Creed 2 PC

......oh wait.
All the more reason to pirate internet connections now; so I can play AC2 8)!

Now, how 'bout that Reach eh?

sevlag
March 25th, 2010, 06:54 AM
one hting i wont like is the influx of 12 yr olds who bitch and complain when you legitimately kill them

Kornman00
March 25th, 2010, 07:39 AM
Yeah, but hopefully with the new Social Options they won't be as prominent in your matches

sevlag
March 25th, 2010, 07:48 AM
Yeah, but hopefully with the new Social Options they won't be as prominent in your matches
ya nevar know, kiddies could do it to annoy you

god i wish hey would do it to MW2, tired of little kids who think marathon, lightwiehgt, and commando are the only perks in game...
I'd tell ya what i call that trio of perks, but i'd get an infract

Rob Oplawar
March 25th, 2010, 09:44 AM
Completely ot:

one hting i wont like is the influx of 12 yr olds who bitch and complain when you legitimately kill them
Why did your font randomly change in the middle of your post?
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=&quot] wtf is that?

sevlag
March 25th, 2010, 09:49 AM
Completely ot:

Why did your font randomly change in the middle of your post?
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=&quot] wtf is that?
oh because i decided to type the rest up in MS word on the school's mac and it has a habit of fucking with text... i tried to manually repair the problem :|

teh lag
March 25th, 2010, 12:02 PM
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/703448/Bungie-Reveals-Halo-Reachs-All-Encompassing-Player-Investment-System.html



Bungie Reveals Halo: Reach's All-Encompassing Player Investment System

http://cache.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/206948_S/Bungie-Reveals-Halo-Reachs-All-Encompassing-Player-Investment-System.jpg

Why should multiplayer gamers have all the fun? That's part of Bungie's pitch for its ambitious "Player Investment" system being implemented into what could potentially be the studio's final Halo adventure, Halo: Reach.

It's been a while since Bungie had a chance to reinvent their brand of online play and Player Investment is Bungie's response to the more RPG-influenced level-based multiplayer experiences found in dominating games like Infinity Ward's Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Whereas Modern Warfare 2 and its ilk confine these experiences to multiplayer, Bungie's hoping to rope all of its Halo fans under a single, player-driven umbrella and involve single-player.

"Whatever your preferred flavor of Halo is, we're gonna find a way to reward you," said Bungie player investment designer (and former games journalist) Luke Smith in a phone interview with me earlier this week. "Whatever you enjoy doing in multiplayer, we're gonna find a way to reward you. Through the Player Investment system, you're going to be building an identity for the first time in a Halo game."

Bungie has detached Halo 3's ranking from the Trueskill system that drives matchmaking. Previously, the on-screen ranking users saw reflected how players would be matched up competitively, meaning someone with a high ranking would most likely be a competent Halo 3 player. That's not necessarily true in Halo: Reach. To be clear, Trueskill is still driving matchmaking, but Player Investment is more reflective of the amount of time someone's dedicated to Halo: Reach and not necessarily their skillset. Someone can have a high Player Investment ranking and be a terrible player. But since Trueskill is tracking that data in the background, away from users, it will still match players appropriately. So, don't worry: terrible Halo: Reach players will be matched with other equally-awful Halo: Reach players.

http://cache.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/206954_S/Bungie-Reveals-Halo-Reachs-All-Encompassing-Player-Investment-System.jpg

Player Investment is driven by credits ("cR" for short). Credits are given to gamers simply for playing Halo: Reach, either through rounds of multiplayer or by working through the single-player campaign, but the amounts of credits vary, based on the actions of the player. Different actions will dole out a different amount of credits, but Bungie is being careful to not encourage player actions that would potentially damage the gameplay experience. It does mean that more challenging tasks (say, five headshots in under a minute) would produce more credits. Bungie's currently balancing how credits are doled out, but credits drive the Player Investment experience, both to increase a player's Military Rank (replacing Halo 3's Ranking system) and to purchase customization items in Halo: Reach's "Armory."

In Modern Warfare 2, as a player levels up, they unlock new abilities, new weapons and other features that fundamentally change the gameplay. Someone who is level one in Modern Warfare 2 can not equally square away against someone nearing the level cap. Bungie is being mindful to avoid that type of player inequality in Halo: Reach. Everything that players gain access to via credits in Halo: Reach are used solely to purchase helmets, shoulders, chests and other accessories that allow Halo: Reach players to create a Spartan who is uniquely them. These items are for visual changes only and do not affect the flow of gameplay.

http://cache.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/206959_S/Bungie-Reveals-Halo-Reachs-All-Encompassing-Player-Investment-System.jpg

"There are no in-game benefits to Spartan armor," said Smith. "It would definitely make Halo something different than what Halo is."

This player uniqueness is reflected in multiplayer and single-player. Your customized Spartan having battles in multiplayer is the same Spartan you're controlling while fighting the Covenant for control of Reach in the prequel storyline. Bungie wanted Halo: Reach's story to be more about the player's role in the battle, rather than simply assuming control of Master Chief and guiding his actions. Your customized Spartan is even included in the cut-scenes.

"When the cut-scene comes up in campaign, we want you to see you," said Smith. "For instance, that trailer that we showed with the helmet and soldier picking it up, the Noble 6 trailer, that helmet is going to be your helmet. If you're pink and adorned with unicorns, that's how you're going to look. [...] With Reach, this is your story, this is your identity, this is your version of a story that we want you to be a part of."

In speaking with Bungie, Smigh pegged me as someone they are targeting with another new feature called "Challenges." Smith knows me. He understands I'm not the most skilled Halo player and am more likely to finish the single-player, maybe dabble in multiplayer, get frustrated because most players are better than I am and move on. Bungie's hoping Challenges will keep players like myself coming back for more. Challenges come in two forms -- daily and weekly -- and are Bungie-developed obstacles that provide short to medium-length goals to be achieved solo or with groups. As Bungie expects most gamers will tackle Challenges after spending a chunk of time with Halo: Reach, many Challenges will have a notable difficulty curve.

http://cache.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/206960_S/Bungie-Reveals-Halo-Reachs-All-Encompassing-Player-Investment-System.jpg

"Some of [simpler daily challenges] are aggregate actions," said Smith, "like kill X dudes, help kill X dudes today. Sometimes those dudes we want you to kill are gonna be in multiplayer, [or] they're going to be in another mode. Sometimes it's going to say just kill anyone anywhere, we don't care what you do, just kill people and we'll reward you for that."

Smith knows what kind of Halo player I am because we've played Halo together. But it's hard to know exactly what kind of player someone is just by looking at their user profile. An impressively high rank doesn't tell you anything about their play style. Bungie hopes to help alleviate that problem with "Commendations," described as persistent medals that reflect player actions over an extended period of time. For example, if the game tracks that you spend most of your time battling with a sniper rifle, your Commendations show that. The profile can eventually represent a snapshot of your Halo play style and provide a better understanding amongst friends and strangers where player strengths are. Oh, and along the way to earning Commendation medals, you'll of course be earning credits.

"There are guys [who] just want to drive people around. We haven't done a great job of reinforcing that kind of behavior in the past"

"I can look at your service record, Patrick," explained Smith, "and see that you have a ton of assists and a ton of progress in your wheelman Commendation, so I know that you like to be a support player, you like to drive vehicles. That's your preferred style. One of the things that we really want to do a better job with Reach is [highlighting] the guys out there who do like their Halo maybe differently than, for instance, I like mine. I like head shots, I like killing people with a sniper rifle, I like all that stuff. But there are guys that we've encountered along the way who just love to drive; they just want to drive people around. We haven't really done a great job of reinforcing that kind of behavior in the past and the Commendation system is one way we're doing that."

Bungie's ambitions for Player Investment suggest hopes for a more efficient, more persistent player experience that extends over users' single and multiplayer adventures. While some gamers might hope for customizability that extends beyond the visual appearance of their Spartan, that's not Halo's style. But if you burned with jealousy over a friend getting their hands on Halo 3's Recon armor, well, Bungie has a whole new set of tools to play with. And for someone like myself, maybe there's a reason to play multiplayer again once the credits roll.

flibitijibibo
March 25th, 2010, 12:08 PM
Hey, Valve: Take a tip from these guys with your items/hats. (Yes, I know crafting was their attempt. It pales in comparison to this one.)

I also love their inclusion of your multiplayer character in single player. That always bugged me for reasons just as petty as the armor itself. XP

The rest is MW2'ish. Good stuff though.

sevlag
March 25th, 2010, 12:59 PM
i like it,but if there is a system some selfish players will find a way to break it and abuse it (5 HS in a minute? party up and go social)

great idea, let's just hope it stands up to the storm that is the fanbase of halo

thehoodedsmack
March 25th, 2010, 02:59 PM
I like that the armor doesn't have any effect on gameplay: FPSs are about pointing and shooting, with the occasional bit of tactics. There's really no need for the type of powerups in games like MW2. I think they did a good job with the single-selection armor abilities.

However, that said, I now know that this is not a game that I will be able to play with my friends locally. This system of customization will, like it did with weapon and perk customization in MW2, ruin the 4-player split-screen experience. Because people are going to take a calendar year to customize their characters, that they won't even see unless they're watching another player's screen. I pray you all have less retarded friends.

teh lag
March 25th, 2010, 03:16 PM
More pics: http://g4tv.com/images/3278/Screenshots---Halo-Reach-Customization/56480/

Some stuff looks okay. Some looks not so okay. (Danger stripes on the boots wtf)

http://cache.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/207082_l/Halo-Reach.jpg

ew what the

http://cache.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/207081_l/Halo-Reach.jpg

On the other hand, it looks like stuff can be further sub-customized, which I like the thought of (if not so much the implementation of these designs...)

Poonthem
March 25th, 2010, 04:37 PM
Amazing how Bungie did all the new perms. I wonder if there will be perms for your Elite character?

BobtheGreatII
March 25th, 2010, 06:39 PM
Does anyone think Bungie will pull the recon thing again? I wonder if they will have their flaming heads again too.

=sw=warlord
March 25th, 2010, 06:50 PM
Does anyone think Bungie will pull the recon thing again? I wonder if they will have their flaming heads again too.
That's amost a given, along with the hacked profiles that follow it.

ShadowSpartan
March 25th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Does anyone think Bungie will pull the recon thing again? I wonder if they will have their flaming heads again too.
Here's a quote straight from the article lag posted:


Bungie's ambitions for Player Investment suggest hopes for a more efficient, more persistent player experience that extends over users' single and multiplayer adventures. While some gamers might hope for customizability that extends beyond the visual appearance of their Spartan, that's not Halo's style. But if you burned with jealousy over a friend getting their hands on Halo 3's Recon armor, well, Bungie has a whole new set of tools to play with. And for someone like myself, maybe there's a reason to play multiplayer again once the credits roll.

So I'm going to say that it's safe to assume they will have a "reward" like Recon armor in Reach.

BobtheGreatII
March 25th, 2010, 07:56 PM
Well there's no doubt then that they will. But I wonder if it will just be like how they should have done recon and just made it a very very difficult thing to unlock. Or if they're going to try awarding it to people again and risk having a recon mess again.

Kornman00
March 26th, 2010, 04:42 AM
The "new tools" may mean that it's more than just a special helmet and chest plate. They probably have a handful of armor customizations specifically locked from public access. Instead, these will probably only be unlocked from special events (ie, Bungie vs the World). Having more than one set (ie, just the Recon) is better and allows those sets to not become so stagnant which was Recon's biggest problem. It also makes it harder for a meme to generate as there is no one-super-armor for someone to bitch "gimme <armor-name>!"


Their PI stuff sounds a lot like what we wanted to do with Cerebrum. Except we had specific military branches you could link associate yourself with 8)

sevlag
March 26th, 2010, 07:23 AM
I don't really care about recon-esque armor things, but i like the new system...

what im concerned botu is players all buying the "hyabusa" stuff, you know the stuff that makes them look "cool"

Kornman00
March 26th, 2010, 07:34 AM
So? Laugh at them and kill them while you sprout your own blend of armor. Sure they're annoying, but hey, more fuel for the fire in your rampage to kill them I say vOv.

ejburke
March 26th, 2010, 07:41 AM
Ugh, Hayabusa. That is the mesh tank top of Halo fashion. I would hope that they wouldn't bring it back, but a side-effect of all this customization seems to be a complete lack of design standards.

sevlag
March 26th, 2010, 07:57 AM
while we're on the permutation subject, how many do you think will be availible n the beta?

Kornman00
March 26th, 2010, 08:03 AM
We don't even know how many there are total (AFAIK there haven't been any posts on it anyway) so it would be kinda hard to guess :s

p0lar_bear
March 26th, 2010, 10:30 AM
Probably none, so players will focus on gameplay instead of exploiting the system to buy teh reconz.

Heathen
March 26th, 2010, 11:11 AM
plus they would have complaints of credits carrying/not carrying over after beta

"I unlocked the 'super red ranger godzilla' armor and now I don't have it!"

or

"All the people that had the beta have x more armor pieces than me!"

sevlag
March 26th, 2010, 11:15 AM
wondering if people will be able to exploit social to rank up in creds

=sw=warlord
March 26th, 2010, 04:55 PM
Am i the only one cringing at the deformation on some of these biped rigs?
Look at the legs...
http://cache.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/207087_l/Halo-Reach.jpg
http://cache.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/207088_l/Halo-Reach.jpg

sevlag
March 26th, 2010, 05:15 PM
Am i the only one cringing at the deformation on some of these biped rigs?
Look at the legs...
http://cache.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/207087_l/Halo-Reach.jpg
http://cache.g4tv.com/rimg_606x0/ImageDb3/207088_l/Halo-Reach.jpgits more visible on the second pic..well its not like the 12 year olds care about biped deformation like the rest of us .

BobtheGreatII
March 26th, 2010, 10:15 PM
while we're on the permutation subject, how many do you think will be availible n the beta?


Q. Cool. There's only three variants in each category, though. Iíll have everything in the first week, right?
A. The beta offerings of Player Investment are but a taste of what will be included in the final game.

I think it's safe to assume we'll get a couple of things.

sevlag
March 27th, 2010, 10:26 AM
I think it's safe to assume we'll get a couple of things.

thanks for finding this out man.

Atty
March 29th, 2010, 08:31 PM
I hope they fix the FP hands and reload animations, H3 gives me a headache.

Also, I like what I've heard so far, too bad Reach is too many years too late after Halo 1 for me to enjoy it like I did Halo: 1, between two jobs, a social life (wut), and college I barely have enough time to fap. :( :( :(

Con
March 29th, 2010, 10:37 PM
I like the armour, especially in the second pic. It looks less like an advanced battle suit and more like an armoured metal exoskeleton sitting on top of an inner suit.

Kornman00
March 30th, 2010, 03:07 AM
Also, I like what I've heard so far, too bad Reach is too many years too late after Halo 1 for me to enjoy it like I did Halo: 1, between two jobs, a social life (wut), and college I barely have enough time to fap. :( :( :(
Learn to multitask. By my computer's calculations, you'd have the most successful time fapping if you did it during social hour. It can't be wrong, a computer said it!

annihilation
March 30th, 2010, 03:42 AM
Looks like Bungie got a little to detail happy with the armor.

Malloy
March 30th, 2010, 05:27 PM
w hen a re t he e lite-perms r eturning ?

teh lag
March 30th, 2010, 05:31 PM
w hen a re t he e lite-perms r eturning ?

i do n' t kno w-but h er e


Q. Why do you hate Elites? Youíre just saving the big Elite customization reveal for later, arenít you?
A. It's not hate, it's a different kind of love. Elites will be customizable, but not in the same way as the Spartans. Spartans have their own dedicated massive part of the UI, you'll be able to customize your Elite, but it won't be the same as decking out your Spartan. Your Spartan is your identity in Reach. (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_032610)

Malloy
March 30th, 2010, 05:33 PM
sorry my friggin space bar is ruined i have to type real slow to make sure it doesnt spaz. well thats pretty awsome. any speculation on how the elites are gonna be pimp-able?

Choking Victim
March 30th, 2010, 05:38 PM
sorry my friggin space bar is ruined i have to type real slow to make sure it doesnt spaz. well thats pretty awsome. any speculation on how the elites are gonna be pimp-able?
Right..is it just a coincidence that the individual letters spell out water?
:tinfoil:


w hen a re t he e lite-perms r eturning ?

Malloy
March 30th, 2010, 05:49 PM
ha ha woohoo they spell water :\...

so sparta-perms have their own friggin system of customization and elites get like jackshit coverage. What gives. Although you do see that elite in the promo performa n evasive manouvre. Do you think spartans ca perform these stunts?

Choking Victim
March 30th, 2010, 05:52 PM
I brought it up because of the unnecessarily lengthy discussion before about water...


cock

Malloy
March 30th, 2010, 06:01 PM
what pages? i cba to go back through them for the sake of 'water' ha ha.

Futzy
March 30th, 2010, 06:03 PM
ha ha woohoo they spell water :\...

so sparta-perms have their own friggin system of customization and elites get like jackshit coverage. What gives. Although you do see that elite in the promo performa n evasive manouvre. Do you think spartans ca perform these stunts?
From what I've read, elites will not work in the same way that they did in halo 2,3. Spartans will be the main playable character in mp, elites will behave in an entirely different way and not be part of the normal games.

Saggy
March 30th, 2010, 07:13 PM
From Bungie's Offical Twitter:


http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/80712899.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1269995221&Signature=ik1FDF%2F0aHQAPWlCSmfeyc%2Bxcp8%3D
Just got this mysterious image and word that something big is dropping this week?!What could it be? Release date? New trailer? BOTH?

teh lag
March 30th, 2010, 07:19 PM
Ad campaign maybe?

Whatever that is, it doesn't look like it's in-game material.

Kornman00
March 31st, 2010, 03:12 AM
I can't see the image fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff T_T

LOCAL HOSTING DAMMIT!

hry
March 31st, 2010, 04:42 AM
http://i40.tinypic.com/311szr7.jpg
Master chief?.april fools?;o

Kornman00
March 31st, 2010, 06:58 AM
Or maybe some Live Action action to highten the Reach senses :o

Well no, def something Aprils fooling. Prob gonna show the E3 2003 demo in the Reach engine then say April Fools! You can't play this. Losers. Bungie: 1, World -1. Burn. Blame Shiska!

Teltaur
March 31st, 2010, 07:48 AM
I would guess the "announcement" of Halo: The Movie. Even though, that'd be a little too predictable for April Fools, usually Bungie tries to be a little more subtle with their April Fools jokes.

Kornman00
March 31st, 2010, 08:40 AM
Watch Bungie Aerospace just be an AF joke :realsmug:

or they play it like it is but then it turns out to be real, double april fooling us :tinfoil:

Malloy
March 31st, 2010, 01:56 PM
The biggest april fool of them all would be the whole Halo franchise was actually designed by the Kellogs breakfast cereal company

English Mobster
March 31st, 2010, 06:19 PM
They're going to drop something real on April Fool's Day and laugh when everyone thinks they're joking.

Atty
March 31st, 2010, 06:45 PM
The biggest april fool of them all would be the whole Halo franchise was actually designed by the Kellogs breakfast cereal company
No.

Delta4907
March 31st, 2010, 06:57 PM
New info from gameinformer: http://gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2010/03/31/exclusive-interview-on-the-halo-reach-sandbox.aspx

Atty
March 31st, 2010, 07:36 PM
I want this game now.

Hotrod
March 31st, 2010, 09:06 PM
I'm not too sure what to think of the whole Loadouts thing, but besides that, the game sounds better than sex....then again...I've never had sex...so I wouldn't know... ;) :P

thehoodedsmack
March 31st, 2010, 10:17 PM
Sounds like the loadouts are very basic: that real power and diversity will still be achieved by picking up weapons throughout the map. I really dislike the system CoD uses, where you customize your class and choose which weapons you start with, but you can still pickup other weapons lying around. That's not a real class-based shooter.

Atty
March 31st, 2010, 10:54 PM
Sounds like the loadouts are very basic: that real power and diversity will still be achieved by picking up weapons throughout the map. I really dislike the system CoD uses, where you customize your class and choose which weapons you start with, but you can still pickup other weapons lying around. That's not a real class-based shooter.CoD isn't supposed to be a class based shooter tho, at least, it doesn't claim to be.

Warsaw
March 31st, 2010, 11:16 PM
In CoD, "classes" are just like the CS:S quick-buy loadouts that you can configure...honestly, it's not meant to be seen as a true "class system".

hry
April 2nd, 2010, 04:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4DHllroiqM&feature=player_embedded

ohh

Lateksi
April 2nd, 2010, 04:43 PM
KBZHKVPPfaY
FALL ... FOOL

jcap
April 2nd, 2010, 09:03 PM
FUCK CLASSES

FUCK BUNGIE

FUCK REACH

They are a day too late with their fucking terrible April Fools joke.

ShadowSpartan
April 2nd, 2010, 09:05 PM
FUCK CLASSES

FUCK BUNGIE

FUCK REACH

They are a day too late with their fucking terrible April Fools joke.
I agree, I think it's a horrible idea. I said before that I would give Armor Abilities like the jetpack a chance, but this class bullshit is ridiculous. Halo should not have classes, everyone should start with the same weapon. I understand that they wanted to add something new to the game through armor abilities, but changing your start weapons based upon which armor ability you are going to use is a step in the wrong direction.

Darqeness
April 2nd, 2010, 09:30 PM
They are customizable though, so if too many people don't like it, Bungie can just change it to the armour abilities with the same weapons. Hopefully players get a lot of customization options for their own loadouts. I wonder how many you can have for a gametype; team fortress gametype anyone?

jcap
April 2nd, 2010, 09:35 PM
The point is that classes FUCKING SUCK.

Also, Bungie said that they are NOT customizable, which if they were it would make it infinitely worse than it already is. Thank god they thought at least that out.

flibitijibibo
April 2nd, 2010, 09:36 PM
Goddamnit, now Halo of Duty: Reach Warfare isn't funny anymore.

I don't even think I'd want a PC port of this. The editing kit would have to be like... "Metroid: Online possible for real this time" good.

ShadowSpartan
April 2nd, 2010, 09:37 PM
They are customizable though, so if too many people don't like it, Bungie can just change it to the armour abilities with the same weapons. Hopefully players get a lot of customization options for their own loadouts. I wonder how many you can have for a gametype; team fortress gametype anyone?
The player cannot customize them, learn to read.


Load Outs are not player created or defined, but rather playlist and/or game type specific. Essentially, they allow you to choose your Armor Ability, your starting primary and secondary weapons, and your grenade cache on the fly.

Edit: Damn you jcap.

thehoodedsmack
April 2nd, 2010, 09:40 PM
If I had to guess (and I do), I'd hazard that the "loadouts" aren't going to have a big variety when it comes to weapons. If they're smart, they'll limit it to choices between the assault rifle, the marksman's rifle, and other fairly balanced, but when combined wisely, gameplay-changing choices. If all goes well, the heavy hitters and power weapons will still be scattered about, like in the previous games, requiring the fast-paced, jack-of-all-trades gameplay we've come to love.

FRain
April 2nd, 2010, 10:24 PM
Load Outs. At the beginning of each match or round, and again every time you wait out your respawn window, you are given the option of choosing a Load Out.

Load Outs are not player created or defined, but rather playlist and/or game type specific. Essentially, they allow you to choose your Armor Ability, your starting primary and secondary weapons, and your grenade cache on the fly.

For some playlists, that might mean every Load Out features the same weapon sets with only the Armor Abilities to distinguish them. For others, it might mean that as the game goes on, you’ll have access to more and more choices based on a number of factors we can fiddle with.

That's just one example to the right. Many gametypes will feature more uniformity in the initial selection.

What it doesn’t mean is that you will be creating your own custom Load Out to bring into Matchmaking. You’ll be choosing from our prefabricated offerings, based on what’s best suited for each gametype.

Don’t worry about power weapons being available right from the start, either. In most cases, you’ll still be finding those distributed via a number of methods throughout the battlefield, though if circumstance warrants it, we certainly can start you with, say, the Rocket Launcher.

And, of course, you can still loot the corpses of your fallen foes and you’ll still find sweet stashes of weapons strewn carelessly about the map for you to find and acquire.


http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline10/040210/ui.jpg



SO:

LOAD OUTS ARE NOT THE SAME FOR EVERY SINGLE MAP.
THERE ARE NO MAJOR POWER WEAPONS ON LOADOUTS.
LOAD OUTS ARE UNCUSTOMIZABLE.

Now, how many of you were BITCHING and WHINING and COMPLAINING about how much you wanted a class based shooter in the "Halo Reach, classed based shooter?" But now they give it to you and you're whining again. Jesus you guys are really hard to please.

You guys really need to learn how to SHUT YOUR MOUTH until you know more about the subject at hand. You are acting how typically this forum acts: the cool people's opinions are the only ones that matters, and every one else sucks. This is why I was going to leave.

PERSONALLY: (note how i used the word personally alot of you forget about it) Loadouts seem like a way to add variety to the game, I'm sorry, but H3 just turned into a BR spam fest.

thehoodedsmack
April 2nd, 2010, 10:29 PM
They're gonna let you spawn with a Shotgun? I'll tell you right now, that's gonna get complaints.

Atty
April 2nd, 2010, 10:45 PM
They're gonna let you spawn with a Shotgun? I'll tell you right now, that's gonna get complaints.No its not, they turned down the shotgun a bit and because of shield popping it requires more to kill someone. At least, thats what the update I read claimed.

I'm looking forward to this, you are all a bunch of insufferable twats and complain about the sky not being the proper shade of blue. Give it a chance, if then you don't like it, complain, but not before you've even seen a proper video for it being demonstrated, especially when you don't have all the facts. You are all so pathetic.

thehoodedsmack
April 2nd, 2010, 10:58 PM
No its not, they turned down the shotgun a bit and because of shield popping it requires more to kill someone. At least, thats what the update I read claimed.

I read that too, but I don't think I fully understand how it works. From the article:


MERRILL:One of the biggest changes is how the shield barrier and transition state is being handled. Previously you could get a headshot through shields – if your opponent had 10 points of shields and you did 15 points of damage, the remaining 5 points would bleed over to the head. That is no longer the case in Reach.

HAMRICK: If the shields haven’t popped, you won’t be getting headshots or melee kills. You’ll have to pop the shields first; it reads a lot better, certainly as we juggle the health and shield differences in Elites and Spartans in multiplayer. This is true for all weapons except the sniper rifle.

I assume that weapons like the energy sword, or rocket launcher wouldn't follow this design, would they? That would mean it would take at least two shots from the rocket launcher to kill one person. Unless of course I'm understanding the system wrong. It sounds like they're trying to do away with one-hit kills, but that's really been the point of some weapons.

Edit: I just read another article from Bungie's website:


Rockets will be a one hit kill at close range, as will the Shotgun...

So now I'm still questioning the shotgun choice. I'm not saying I hate it, or that I even dislike it, but there's gonna be a fuss made.

FRain
April 2nd, 2010, 11:02 PM
Yeah, it was also mentioned in that update that stuff like the rocket launcher, sword, don't follow this rule.

t3h m00kz
April 2nd, 2010, 11:06 PM
You people whining about a game you haven't even played yet amuses me. Trust me when I say they'll listen to the feedback they get after the public beta.

If it's anything like the other Halos, it's safe to say there's going to be different playlists, so if you don't like something, you won't have to play it. Like, honestly, how many of you play MLG on Halo 3 when things like big team and social slayer are available?

ShadowSpartan
April 2nd, 2010, 11:12 PM
Now, how many of you were BITCHING and WHINING and COMPLAINING about how much you wanted a class based shooter in the "Halo Reach, classed based shooter?" But now they give it to you and you're whining again. Jesus you guys are really hard to please.

You guys really need to learn how to SHUT YOUR MOUTH until you know more about the subject at hand. You are acting how typically this forum acts: the cool people's opinions are the only ones that matters, and every one else sucks. This is why I was going to leave.
Was it really necessary to quote all of that from the Update? I'll answer that for you, no it was not. I don't know who you are talking to about people wanting a class based shooter, but I for one have never said that is what I wanted Halo to turn into. Read my response to Atty's post, that should tie in nicely to your "until you know more about the subject at hand".


I'm looking forward to this, you are all a bunch of insufferable twats and complain about the sky not being the proper shade of blue. Give it a chance, if then you don't like it, complain, but not before you've even seen a proper video for it being demonstrated, especially when you don't have all the facts. You are all so pathetic.
I find it funny how everyone is attacking the people who dislike the class system in Halo. What would seeing a video of it being demonstrated help? We already know what they are and how they work. They are classes that Bungie controls based on the gametype you are playing, and we have no control over them. That's not hard to understand, and does not require a video.

jcap
April 2nd, 2010, 11:18 PM
I don't care that I haven't played the game. It doesn't matter. I've played other class-based shooters and I avoid them at all costs. I fucking hate them. I realize that Reach isn't as bad as others, but it is still a step in the wrong direction and it's not Halo.

They should have just stuck to one "perk" (jetpack, sprint, armor lock) that you can specify in the lobby of every game. You can set it only once, and then you're stuck with it for the remainder of the game. In your profile you would have a default perk in case you don't choose one in the lobby.

Atty
April 2nd, 2010, 11:21 PM
I find it funny how everyone is attacking the people who dislike the class system in Halo. What would seeing a video of it being demonstrated help? We already know what they are and how they work. They are classes that Bungie controls based on the gametype you are playing, and we have no control over them. That's not hard to understand, and does not require a video.You haven't played it and yet you are passing judgement.

You are just wrong, trust me.


I don't care that I haven't played the game. It doesn't matter. I've played other class-based shooters and I avoid them at all costs. I fucking hate them. I realize that Reach isn't as bad as others, but it is still a step in the wrong direction and it's not Halo.

They should have just stuck to one "perk" (jetpack, sprint, armor lock) that you can specify in the lobby of every game. You can set it only once, and then you're stuck with it for the remainder of the game. In your profile you would have a default perk in case you don't choose one in the lobby.
Thats dumb. Really, it is.

Anyone else?

thehoodedsmack
April 2nd, 2010, 11:26 PM
You haven't played it and yet you are passing judgement.

These people are judging what they can. They're expressing initial thoughts based on what they've seen. They're allowed to do that, and it's no worse than blindly defending it, or having no thought on the matter whatsoever. It's topical discussion, and I don't see what's wrong with it. Some people may be mistaking the thought of "this looks terrible" with "this is terrible" . I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that they have definitively made up their mind on the quality of a game that isn't even out in public beta yet. That's just silly.

jcap
April 2nd, 2010, 11:28 PM
You're dumb.

Really, saying "you haven't played it so don't judge it" is absolutely the dumbest fucking argument you can make. What's wrong with drawing from prior experiences? You said the same dumb shit about Modern Warfare 2's lack of dedicated servers, saying "oh just wait to play it", despite our knowledge from experience of how P2P games SUCK and are filled with lag.

ShadowSpartan
April 2nd, 2010, 11:30 PM
You haven't played it and yet you are passing judgement.

You are just wrong, trust me.
Oh yes, I believe you just because you said that. I am wrong.....NOT. There is nothing wrong with passing judgment on something when I know how it works already. Also, I damn sure don't need to play the game to know that I dislike the class system they have. Some people will, without a doubt, have an advantage over other players because of the classes.

thehoodedsmack
April 2nd, 2010, 11:32 PM
Some people will, without a doubt, have an advantage over other players because of the classes.

Except those people are then free to choose the exact same class, thereby nullifying any inequalities and returning the gameplay to a skill-based method. The loadouts look, for the most part, fairly well designed and balanced.

All the loadouts are really doing is saving you the extra 5 seconds it would have taken you to switch your assault rifle for a battle rifle, or anything else laying around in your base. The real game-changers are the abilities. And we'll probably get used to the whole system fairly quickly.

FRain
April 2nd, 2010, 11:39 PM
I don't care that I haven't played the game. It doesn't matter. I've played other class-based shooters and I avoid them at all costs. I fucking hate them. I realize that Reach isn't as bad as others, but it is still a step in the wrong direction and it's not Halo.

They should have just stuck to one "perk" (jetpack, sprint, armor lock) that you can specify in the lobby of every game. You can set it only once, and then you're stuck with it. In your profile you would have a default perk in case you don't choose one in the lobby.

Bolded in red for ignorance.

You know what? I don't care that you don't like classes! See? It's YOUR opinion. You're entitled to your opinion. However, the way you're flaunting it around like you're some kind of god that goes "this is how it is and it isnt any other way" is completely retarded. Unless you're going to actually, you know, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, it serves no use to complain about it. Want my opinion? I really like this load outs feature! It changes from h3s massive BR and assault rifle fest to a somewhat more organized chaos.

By the way, Modern Warfare 2 was not a bad game. They cranked it out in a year and a half, I didn't expect more from them. They had the same timeframe that ODST had. Was it a shitty idea to cut dedicated servers? Absolutely. You're complaining about such trivial little things, and on top of that, you're being a little 7 year old twat that thinks his opinion is the only one that matters. It's like you're saying that the sky isnt R 10 G 20 B 243 so it doesn't exist (thanks atty for bringing that to my attention). It's little trivial disagreements that should be discussed, not completely bickered over that degrades our community into YouTube comments daily "modern warfare 2 kicks halo reachs ass" "halo reach pwnzzr0rz" "no you"


BTW: Shadow, that wasn't really directed at you, it was more directed at jcap.

I'm not dropping any -rep, but I expect to see a nice list of -reps in my inbox just for disagreeing it and bringing it to your attention you're being a twat.

Atty
April 2nd, 2010, 11:48 PM
You're dumb.

Really, saying "you haven't played it so don't judge it" is absolutely the dumbest fucking argument you can make. What's wrong with drawing from prior experiences? You said the same dumb shit about Modern Warfare 2's lack of dedicated servers, saying "oh just wait to play it", despite our knowledge from experience of how P2P games SUCK and are filled with lag.I did? What? I don't even play on PC so why would I care about dedicated servers? And I love MW:2.

flibitijibibo
April 3rd, 2010, 12:09 AM
Nothing like the "me first" argument.

"It doesn't affect me, why should I care about anyone else's problems?"

It was a bad move and ultimately made MW2 worse. Doesn't necessarily mean bad overall, but still. (I personally don't like MW2 myself, but there you go.)

But anyway: jcap has every right to hate a particular type of game and generalize to that degree. If someone hates "class-based" shooters, another one isn't suddenly going to make the "class-based" shooter good. However, I can't agree that it's objectively bad for those reasons. I can agree with jcap that "class-based" (yes, these quotes are for a reason, hold on) shooters executed in this manner are absolutely horrid, and seeing Halo move this far from its original working formula is upsetting. TF2 is the only game I've ever enjoyed because the classes are limited. There are actual limiting factors to what you can use. If you pick sniper, then you're going to hold on to that piss jar until you switch. Having a set of weapons that anyone can use without limits ruins the point of classes entirely. If someone is a dedicated sharpshooter, odds are you aren't going to see them carrying a grenade launcher.

So really, in my opinion (read that again and a-fucking-gain, it's an opinion, an opinion an opinion), this is still not a class-based shooter. Neither is MW2, or any game like these two. It's what I call the juggernaut-style gameplay (one guy knows how to use all weapons like a pro???) that Halo started with, only the developer (Bungie in this case) slapped on some "variety" in starting weapons. And, if the battle rifle shows anything about Bungie's weapon balancing, one class will be objectively the best and it won't really matter anyway.

TL;DR: It's not actually class-based. Calm the fuck down. Global perks/weapons a class-based game does not make. It just makes a diluted game.

jcap
April 3rd, 2010, 12:14 AM
Atty, I didn't mean "you" specifically, so sorry if it was too direct.


Rain,

There's a few things I'm worried about here which contribute to my opinion:
1. Usually when they add classes, they try to make literally every weapon the same. Weapon balance is a load of bullshit Jaime Griesemer needs to get fucked up the ass for. THOUGH, since they don't actually have any heavy weapon class (unlike other games which have a heavy class), maybe there is still some hope that every weapon won't be for pussies.
2. If you are in a CTF game, after your team scores once in an 16 player game, you can have 4 of your team mates camping inside of the base with their shotguns they get on spawn, while the other 4 people are in the field with their DMRs. If the shotgun guys die, then they call all respawn with DMRs and take out the flag carrier without ever needing to find a weapon. Instead of being "rewarded" for finding a weapon that hasn't been taken by another team mate or someone on the opposing team, you are given a list to choose from.
3. My biggest gripe is really the unfairness of being able to switch your loadout mid-game. Let's say you take the blue team's flag. You ran in with the armor lock and kill all the enemies. You are walking out of the base, meanwhile they all choose to respawn with the DMR and sprint loadout to catch you, and you can't do shit to counter them. There's no penalty for making the wrong decision. That's why I think you should have to make the decision at the beginning of the game, and then you are forced to live with it for the entire game.

I don't think this SUCKS and is going to kill the game. I do have some hope for it. It's not done exactly the way I had hoped, but it's not done the way I absolutely didn't want either.

ShadowSpartan
April 3rd, 2010, 12:15 AM
Except those people are then free to choose the exact same class, thereby nullifying any inequalities and returning the gameplay to a skill-based method. The loadouts look, for the most part, fairly well designed and balanced.
At the very beginning though, some people will have an advantage over others to get the power weapons. I don't see myself liking the class system anytime soon. We'll see what happens when the Beta rolls around though.


Unless you're going to actually, you know, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, it serves no use to complain about it.
How is he going to do anything? Bungie is the one developing the game so there's nothing any of us can do besides play the Beta and hope Bungie listens to the feedback.


Want my opinion? I really like this load outs feature! It changes from h3s massive BR and assault rifle fest to a somewhat more organized chaos.
If you are going to attack him based on his opinion, then why would he want your opinion on the matter? I personally see the classes doing more harm than good in multiplayer, but I will still play it because quite frankly I am bored with Halo 3. I just extremely dislike the fact people will start on different playing fields, and I really dislike that the armor abilities will be associated with certain weapons.


It's little trivial disagreements that should be discussed, not completely bickered over that degrades our community into YouTube comments daily "modern warfare 2 kicks halo reachs ass" "halo reach pwnzzr0rz" "no you"
You are the one who started it by telling people to shut their mouths.

Boba
April 3rd, 2010, 12:28 AM
fuck this is an awful decision!!

i wanted it to be the same game i've already played but different not something with different features!!

p0lar_bear
April 3rd, 2010, 03:52 AM
fuck this is an awful decision!!

i wanted it to be the same game i've already played but different not something with different features!!

This, pretty much.

I believe I said it before, (in this thread, actually), Bungie should just fucking drop the Halo IP already. They've done it to death, and every time they attempt to add in something new to alleviate the issues the fanbase is having with the game, the fanbase suddenly turns around and bites their heads off like they're a dog stuck in a bear trap or some shit.

Again I find myself looking forward to the changes, additions, and whatnot just to spite everyone crying about it. :realsmug:

ejburke
April 3rd, 2010, 08:18 AM
In an RPG, if one mage is equipped with a fire spell and another is equipped with a lightning spell, does that make them a different class?

In other Halo games, if someone had a sniper rifle and another guy had a shotgun, they had a different tactical role. You could argue that they were different classes. In Halo 3, if someone had a bubble shield and another guy had an energy drainer, they had different tactical options. So, let's not pretend Halo was always some super-symmetric experience. No one would want to play a shooter where two guys spawned directly across from one another with the same weapon in a featureless box map. All Bungie has really done with the loadouts is change the equipment so that it's more useful and made it so that you don't have to spend the first couple of minutes after you spawn looking for a decent weapon that fits what you want to do.

A class-based shooter is a shooter that contrives teamwork by placing the distribution of key resources (health, ammo, repair) in the hands of players. Everything outside of that falls under the umbrella of nuance, tactics, and customization. It's the difference between a pizza that is built upon a slab of bread and a meal that comes with bread on the side.

Bungie isn't IW. They're not going to do stupid shit like rewarding kill streaks with even more kills, making games even more lopsided. These armor abilities aren't passive bullshit perks that require no skill or timing to use. And Bungie remains in strict control of what combination of abilities and weapons you can load out with. Give them half a chance.

Rob Oplawar
April 3rd, 2010, 11:27 AM
I defended folks voicing concerns about features in this thread, but jcap just took it way beyond that, and I have to say: For fuck's sake, how can you possibly make that kind of judgement before you play the game?
It's one thing to say "gosh, Bungie, I don't like the art direction you're taking with the player models in this game. You seem to be losing touch with your roots and making a more generic shooter, which I wish you wouldn't do." It's quite another to say "God dammit, Bungie, this new feature which I haven't tried and still has months of tweaking left is going to totally break the game, and you owe it to me to make exactly the game I want."

flibitijibibo
April 3rd, 2010, 11:37 AM
One could argue that he's tried it in other games. Sometimes features can just be plain bad. Case in point: SecuROM/Ubisoft DRM.

One could also argue that, given you have the games and have then technically supported the developer (especially for what, 10 years now?), they do kinda owe it to those who have given them all this support to at least take in an opinion or two. If I buy every single Splinter Cell game since the first one and they put Ubisoft DRM on the latest one a few months before release, and it's clear that the system blows, I think I have every right to tell them to fuck themselves and take off the DRM before I pirate it just to have the game I wanted to buy.

ejburke
April 3rd, 2010, 11:48 AM
I defended folks voicing concerns about features in this thread, but jcap just took it way beyond that, and I have to say: For fuck's sake, how can you possibly make that kind of judgement before you play the game?
It's one thing to say "gosh, Bungie, I don't like the art direction you're taking with the player models in this game. You seem to be losing touch with your roots and making a more generic shooter, which I wish you wouldn't do." It's quite another to say "God dammit, Bungie, this new feature which I haven't tried and still has months of tweaking left is going to totally break the game, and you owe it to me to make exactly the game I want."Well, that's the internet. People take one extreme side or another. Being able to see issues from both sides is not well-practiced. Which is why most amateur podcasts are terrible, because people take internet discussion skills and use them when speaking aloud, making themselves look quite retarded in the process.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still not a fan of some of the art I'm seeing. And if they roll out a "Medic" armor ability or some passive armor ability that lets you shoot through walls at all times or shit a nuke every time you die, I'm going to bust out the screw face and point it squarely in Bungie's direction. But I don't think that will happen.

Kornman00
April 3rd, 2010, 05:38 PM
It'll be just like playing Halo Wars; you'll pick your type at the start of the game without knowing what your enemy has picked either. You all have the same types you chose from. However, when you die you'll be able to pick a different tactical class to use. Your enemy can do the same. It'll allow some game saving maneuvers if used right. Especially if some other players on your team aren't up for the cut.

I think jcap is just scared of change. Since he has no hands-on to fuel his case, he's basing everything off older games. Games which Bungie themselves have had the chance to play and figure strengths and weaknesses. He'll either realize he got carried away with his ranting after the game comes out, or won't admit he was wrong to jump the gun and continue his "class" hating while secretly actually enjoying it, especially when he gets matched up with shit players.

I for one, can't wait to play with some of this new stuff (and then voice any gripes). If I wanted the same shit, different day, I'd just boot up Halo 3.

Arteen
April 3rd, 2010, 08:24 PM
I like everything I'm hearing so far, but I hope Bungie is willing to include some old-school gametypes with only one loadout and no armor abilities. Those can be fun too.

Also, jetpacks!

ejburke
April 3rd, 2010, 08:31 PM
Reach isn't class-based, it is simply MODERN. Everything these days is going to have some degree of tactical customization. You can't call EVERYTHING a class-based shooter because of that reality. The label would retain no meaning.

Heathen
April 3rd, 2010, 09:53 PM
No its not, they turned down the shotgun a bit and because of shield popping it requires more to kill someone. At least, thats what the update I read claimed.

I'm looking forward to this, you are all a bunch of insufferable twats and complain about the sky not being the proper shade of blue. Give it a chance, if then you don't like it, complain, but not before you've even seen a proper video for it being demonstrated, especially when you don't have all the facts. You are all so pathetic.

This and what frain said

jcap
April 3rd, 2010, 10:14 PM
I defended folks voicing concerns about features in this thread, but jcap just took it way beyond that, and I have to say: For fuck's sake, how can you possibly make that kind of judgement before you play the game?
It's one thing to say "gosh, Bungie, I don't like the art direction you're taking with the player models in this game. You seem to be losing touch with your roots and making a more generic shooter, which I wish you wouldn't do." It's quite another to say "God dammit, Bungie, this new feature which I haven't tried and still has months of tweaking left is going to totally break the game, and you owe it to me to make exactly the game I want."
You still don't understand my concerns, so shut up. I'm thinking about logical outcomes of games. I said I wasn't entirely scared of classes as much as their decisions to let you change mid-game.

I don't need to experience something to understand how it will play out.

I'm not afraid of change - I'm just afraid of change done stupid...and Bungie has a looooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggg history of that.

Kornman00
April 3rd, 2010, 10:18 PM
Except when you finally play it, you'll have the feel of all the game mechanics working at once. Experience. Otherwise you're just thinking how you want to think and otherwise possibly overlooking or forgetting some aspects. Also, Bungie likes to keep some things behind the curtain until release...

t3h m00kz
April 3rd, 2010, 11:20 PM
You still don't understand my concerns, so shut up. I'm thinking about logical outcomes of games. I said I wasn't entirely scared of classes as much as their decisions to let you change mid-game.

I don't need to experience something to understand how it will play out.

I'm not afraid of change - I'm just afraid of change done stupid...and Bungie has a looooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggg history of that.

The way I see it, any change from Halo 3 is a good change. I'm sure others will share this opinion.

Good_Apollo
April 3rd, 2010, 11:43 PM
Halo 3 would have been perfect if they removed melee lunge and dual wielding. Reach looks gay.

t3h m00kz
April 3rd, 2010, 11:57 PM
you look gay :saddowns:

Kornman00
April 4th, 2010, 12:08 AM
Reach looks gay.
The reasons you provided are just SO true, I think you may be on to something :ohdear:


:nsmug:

Bloodraver
April 4th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Reach looks gay.

Reach looks okay to me

Atty
April 4th, 2010, 12:32 AM
Halo 3 would have been perfect if they removed melee lunge and dual wielding. Reach looks gay.I'm assuming the roman numeral in your title is your IQ, right? It would only be fair to somehow publicly warn us of your idiocy before we actually get around to reading your posts.

Please refrain from posting any more ideas, opinions, or even anything at all in the future, you'll save us a lot of satirical remarks.

You know, for a bunch of gaming enthusiasts and, for the most part, people dealing with on going projects and what-not, you're all really obstinate. I honestly feel like I'm on a forum with Henry Ford and his cronies, standing around a ball room with knee high socks and floor touching dresses on their wives talking about the good 'ol days of slave labor and plantations (those of you educated enough to understand that remark, +rep and <3).

ICEE
April 4th, 2010, 04:22 AM
im with atty on this one. FFs, the "selectable loadout" doesn't seem anywhere near a class based system. You're taking the scarce information at hand and making bold assertions in strict conservative format

Besides, if it does suck royally, its not like its going to be far out of the ballpark.

Hotrod
April 4th, 2010, 09:16 AM
The way I see it, the loadouts are a great way to stop people from complaining about "AR starts" and "BR starts". This way, everybody gets what they want without changing any of the gameplay since it just saves us the few seconds it takes to go find a BR (DMR) or an AR (I know that has been mentioned a few times before in this thread) Also, it adds a new level of strategy to the game, because a single strategy will never work twice due to the fact that your team won't always start with the same weapons, and neither will the other team. So, the way I see it, they don't unbalance the game in the least bit, since none of the starting weapons are power weapons, and are all good and bad in their own areas.

In short : Loadouts sound like a good idea to make the game more interesting, and they get my seal of approval, since it doesn't seem to be unbalanced.

Kornman00
April 4th, 2010, 10:30 AM
Also, they're not a mandatory part of the playlist. They can easily have "classic" SWAT where all you get to have are DMRs and Magnums. They're just adding an additional layer of customization. Something to keep the game from becoming so stale over time. Bungie Aerospace needs revenue to build that thar Giant Slingshot after all :downs:

Limited
April 4th, 2010, 11:32 AM
I love the ability to pick your 'load-out' at the start of the game. The problem is you cannot select and choose the seperate items and make custom loadouts. Okay I can see Bungie might have done this so they can balance it out well. Say you could start with an energy sword, you dont want them to have the run technique because that would just demolish everyone. However, the ability that you cant select and choose want you want I feel limits what can be done, and it means you cant pick your favourites. Again, I like how you can select certain loadouts, I just wish you could customise these.

The other big question is, can you pick up any weapon thats on the ground? If you cant then we have a big issue.

Also, people should bitch and moan, whoever says "yeah well you cant do anything", your just being ignorant, why the fuck is Bungie handing out a beta? Its not just to gather data, its to get the views of the people that will be playing it day in day out. If they find bugs, people will let them know, if it turns out, that sniper rifle isnt balanced enough against elites then they will find it out from users complaining.

I'm still looking forward to reach, loadouts are a cool addition and I feel they will change the game dramatically, for the better. It will add that dynamic-ness of the game.

Warsaw
April 4th, 2010, 12:03 PM
Also, they're not a mandatory part of the playlist. They can easily have "classic" SWAT where all you get to have are DMRs and Magnums. They're just adding an additional layer of customization. Something to keep the game from becoming so stale over time. Bungie Aerospace needs revenue to build that thar Giant Slingshot after all :downs:

This.

Think of it like an expansion of the "Custom" or "Generic" weapons option...

Also, where's the threat to infract if this discussion on loadouts continues, eh? :raise:

Arteen
April 4th, 2010, 12:19 PM
I love the ability to pick your 'load-out' at the start of the game. The problem is you cannot select and choose the seperate items and make custom loadouts. Okay I can see Bungie might have done this so they can balance it out well. Say you could start with an energy sword, you dont want them to have the run technique because that would just demolish everyone. However, the ability that you cant select and choose want you want I feel limits what can be done, and it means you cant pick your favourites. Again, I like how you can select certain loadouts, I just wish you could customise these.
I don't really see the problem with this. In the previous games, you didn't have any choice in spawn weapons. Now you do.


The other big question is, can you pick up any weapon thats on the ground? If you cant then we have a big issue.
Of course you can pick up weapons off the ground.


Also, people should bitch and moan, whoever says "yeah well you cant do anything", your just being ignorant, why the fuck is Bungie handing out a beta? Its not just to gather data, its to get the views of the people that will be playing it day in day out. If they find bugs, people will let them know, if it turns out, that sniper rifle isnt balanced enough against elites then they will find it out from users complaining.
I'd prefer if people would whine after they had a chance to play the game.

I hope we still have a way to spawn with a random loadout like in the H3 Fiesta playlists. I'd love a gametype where everyone spawns as a random biped (Spartan or Elite) with a random armor ability and random starting weapons. It would be awesome.

ejburke
April 4th, 2010, 12:47 PM
I love the ability to pick your 'load-out' at the start of the game. The problem is you cannot select and choose the seperate items and make custom loadouts. Okay I can see Bungie might have done this so they can balance it out well. Say you could start with an energy sword, you dont want them to have the run technique because that would just demolish everyone. However, the ability that you cant select and choose want you want I feel limits what can be done, and it means you cant pick your favourites. Again, I like how you can select certain loadouts, I just wish you could customise these.
Obviously, Bungie is aware of what other shooters have done with custom loadouts. They clearly have reasons for not going in that direction and I agree with their decision.

For one thing, if Bungie wants swords, hammers, and rockets as part of loadouts for a special gametype, they have the flexibility to implement that. If a certain gametype would be completely ruined if the jetpack were allowed, they can just take it out of the loadout options. They don't have to worry about making sure that every possible loadout combination is balanced in every situation. This system supports a huge variety of possibilities, not the least of which being the fact that you can make a fresh choice in almost every match, instead of being married to one optimal loadout combo for the majority of your time with the game.

I think it's great and solves many more problems than it introduces.

PlasbianX
April 4th, 2010, 01:21 PM
You can pick up weps off the ground. If you watch the video again, it says "Press X to pick up <whatever wep it was>" Which that right there, says the controls changed from H3.

Even with load outs, you have to realize that you can technically customize them in a sense. Want a sprint load out but you dont want a shotgun it comes with? Kill a guy with his DMR, pick the damn thing up, and don't die.

Limited
April 4th, 2010, 01:58 PM
I was just making sure you can big any type of weapon up. I don't think it will effect the game much, I won't be screaming at my tv for not giving me X gun at the start. It would have been cool to fully customise load-outs though.

Mass
April 4th, 2010, 02:37 PM
I'm completely with Mr. Burke on this one, it sounds like a problem-solving implementation to kill the time that in previous games would mean running around your base getting all the equipment you need to execute your plan of attack. Letting people choose between which basic weapons they start with means that more of the time in the match can be spent fighting, and that dying can be a less frustrating experience when you haven't invested so much time in your armory. I for one am excited about the more personalized and tactical game-play that can stem from variety in starting weapons. I feel like the majority of people will opt for the mid-range headshot-getting class (this is Halo after all) and aside from wasting less time seems like the experience will be pretty damn similar.

And yes, in case it satisfies one's twisted mind to know, I did like MW2 :/

Kornman00
April 4th, 2010, 02:45 PM
From the sounds of it, you'll be able to configure them in your custom game types so when you're fragging it out at home you can set them to your heart's content.

For matchmaking, I think leaving it up to Bungie is the best compromise. That way they're like the refs. No one gets to step out of bounds and come in with an upper hand because they have a load-out which no one else has (doesn't have to just be super weapons). It also simplifies program logic since they don't have to check your load outs against invalid configs when you join a matchmaking playlist, and thus limiting your load outs (had they let you used custom load outs). Instead they lay down the law and tell the world how it's going down.

Don't likey? Go back to playing with your CoDs. I could careless for tatical nukes and C130s myself. (not trying to attack you Limited, sorry if it sounds like that)



Also, where's the threat to infract if this discussion on loadouts continues, eh? :raise:
Kinda hard to infract an admin (read: j-hop-on-pop, aka jpop, aka jcap) :-3

Ifafudafi
April 4th, 2010, 10:47 PM
What it seems to me is less like Battlefield/CoD "classes" and more a way to make sure everybody starts on an equal playing field according to their playstyle. Some people would infinitely more comfortable with an AR, whereas others would prefer a DMR; this way, people gravitate towards what they play best with, and everyone's at an equal advantage. Likewise with armor abilities. All the weapons in loadouts are designed to be techincally equal (unlike H3's AR vs. BR), but their individual styles suit some players more than others. Everyone, in essence, is allowed to play at their best.

But for the weapons that actually are better, there's still the mad rush to the RL.

Either way, this is why they're having a beta in May; no doubt, something with the loadouts is going to be horribly fucking imbalanced, and they'll fix all those things accordingly.

thehoodedsmack
April 4th, 2010, 10:59 PM
The real question is... how will all this affect the sport sensation that is Grifball?

Kornman00
April 4th, 2010, 11:23 PM
It will benefit it if anything. Think about it, you could have an "offensive" and "defensive" load out. One with the AA of sprint, another with maybe armor lock or hell...active camo if you're feeling frisky :3

I can only imagine what kind of new things millions of fans will be able to cook up with whatever new forge they offer plus all of the game type customization they have. Gonna be sweat sauce.

English Mobster
April 4th, 2010, 11:52 PM
Forge (as seen in the April Fool's ViDoc) looks essentially the same, although admittedly it's hard to tell from the brief moments we take a glimpse at the Monitor's HUD.

Kornman00
April 5th, 2010, 02:23 AM
I'm sure that they wouldn't let any spoils leak out while making their AF's joke. I don't even think they showed the forge object menu during the vid (I only watched it once and didn't pay much mind to it, AFs and all) That's the only thing visual that I can think that would have changed.

BobtheGreatII
April 5th, 2010, 03:00 PM
The hell did they do to the Banshee?

http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/images/cutouts/cutouts_033110/Reach_MPBeta_Banshee.jpg

Cagerrin
April 5th, 2010, 03:52 PM
Dunno, but I like it.

Well, on the condition that the wings are animated so it looks like it's actually using the anti-grav pods to maneuver.

Best part of the update was the focus rifle tbh.

Warsaw
April 5th, 2010, 03:54 PM
I'm lost as to why Bungie said the SMG was a shitty AR...I thought it was more powerful in every way. At the ranges you would use the AR anyways, the SMG is a more potent choice even without dual-wielding. I'm kind of sad to see it go.

Good_Apollo
April 5th, 2010, 04:30 PM
The hell did they do to the Banshee?

http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/images/cutouts/cutouts_033110/Reach_MPBeta_Banshee.jpgLawl, more Reach fail.

Kornman00
April 5th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Is it just me, or do the wings (if you can even call them that...stabilizers?) look like they're on adjustable joints? Maybe they move into the horizontal position when you get a certain height off the ground

I'm lost as to why Bungie said the SMG was a shitty AR...I thought it was more powerful in every way. At the ranges you would use the AR anyways, the SMG is a more potent choice even without dual-wielding. I'm kind of sad to see it go.
Yeah, I'm gonna miss the sound of an SMG clip being rat-tat-tatted :(

Well actually, the sound of duel wielded SMGs. Sometimes I'd pick them up in game just to hear them burp some rounds off. Probably getting tagged in the process, but at least with the downs-satisfaction of hearing two SMGs going off :downs:

thehoodedsmack
April 5th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Is it just me, or do the wings (if you can even call them that...stabilizers?) look like they're on adjustable joints? Maybe they move into the horizontal position when you get a certain height off the ground

That sorta reminds me of the Imperial Shuttles from Star Wars:

http://www.dragonslair.dk/dlCart/dlimages/abb_imperialShuttle.jpg

Albeit, more compact. Anyways, I like the new look.

flibitijibibo
April 5th, 2010, 06:15 PM
The new look makes WAY more sense to me. I always wondered how those pairs of twigs/wings from the original games actually carried anything. Also, actual guns on the front! Woo!

The top... door, thing, does look a bit goofy though. Wonder why they de-smoothed it?