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FRain
November 27th, 2009, 06:13 PM
A lot like the MW2 and HL3 threads, what do you want to see/not see in Reach.

Personally, I want to see more time-based-objectives. I want to see "Escape the ship" to actually be timed and not just run through at a leisurely pace and you'll still make it.

What do you guys think?

ODX
November 27th, 2009, 06:21 PM
If anything I'm hoping for a level just like the second one in Halo 1. It'd really be a nice way for them to show some beautiful open vistas and show off how well they've developed the architecture known as 'Forerunner' as well.

=sw=warlord
November 27th, 2009, 07:29 PM
If anything I'm hoping for a level just like the second one in Halo 1. It'd really be a nice way for them to show some beautiful open vistas and show off how well they've developed the architecture known as 'Forerunner' as well.
Yeah, what i want to see if you meet up with other spartans and visit different forerunner buildings in a warthog prefferbly the normal LRV not gauss or transport.
Although it could be very interesting if they choose to visit the scene where your with halsey in the caverns with the purple crystal looking at all the covenant in the cavern aiming at you.

Kornman00
November 28th, 2009, 11:53 AM
I want the crystal to be pink instead to piss off the people who bitch about that kind of stuff :downs:

killer9856
November 28th, 2009, 11:57 AM
i want huge fights with lots of guns blazing. Oh i adore those scenes

Kornman00
November 28th, 2009, 12:37 PM
As long as they don't over do the "huge fights" like that seen in MW2...

Siliconmaster
November 28th, 2009, 01:49 PM
I think Bungie will provide, but I still want epic. Halo 3 satisfied me a lot with the very large battles, actually feeling like stuff was happening and that you were part of something larger, but I'd love it if they went above and beyond that. Maybe, as mentioned before, being able to drive over huge vistas- wide open plains mb, stuff that never really happens in the other games. Complete covenant infantry and artillary battles. :iamafag:

ODX
November 28th, 2009, 02:29 PM
One thing that they had in Halo 3 though that I really liked, are those little/major battles that weren't really in your path, but you could just gaze out at the beautful vistas and just see some banshees and hornets battling it out. Added to the overall feeling that you're at war with these people, rather than going through a level and not really seeing much.

k4is3rxkh40s
November 28th, 2009, 03:03 PM
What I want is a level where you're from some sort of intelligence agency, and have to go undercover and infiltrate the covenant. At some point, you should end up with the first wave of ground forces attacking Reach, and have to shoot up an air base as the covenant begin glassing the planet.

:realsmug:

Heathen
November 28th, 2009, 03:55 PM
I hope the sequel to Reach is The Flood so we can play Halo 1 all over with better graphics and engine.

BUT WAT ENGINE CULD BE BETTER DAN THE BLAM ENGINE LOLOLOL.


Personally, I don't want it to be class based because I think the very idea of 'class based' as applied to Spartans is fucking idiotic. Spartans are supposed to be highly trained in all aspects of warfare. Saying 'this spartan can do somesuch, but this other spartan can't' just makes no sense to me.

Even someone trained in EVERY ASPECT of something will have a specialization.

Kornman00
November 28th, 2009, 05:36 PM
BLAM ENGINE PLUZ PLUZ LOLOLOL of course

Delta4907
November 29th, 2009, 03:00 AM
A better Firefight mode, that isn't just skulls enabling to make things harder because enemies throw a lot of grenades. And, a flood firefight mode (since firefight isn't canon). Or, just the ability to change what types of enemies you face. Anyways, if it was a small map, it would be cool if the flood only walked instead of ran, like slow-walking zombies. They wouldn't have weapons, but there would be a lot of them. As more waves were defeated, they'd start getting more resistant (no one-melee kill, like in Halo 1), and would start spawning with weapons. I don't expect something like this to come with the game, but maybe DLC? It'd be awesome either way.

Inferno
November 29th, 2009, 12:57 PM
Lol xbox exclusive video games.

Too bad.

Corndogman
November 29th, 2009, 12:58 PM
I want to see a level that combines the 2nd level of Halo 1, with the last level of Halo 3 (and H1) and the part of star wars where Luke blows up the death star by flying through the tunnel/canyon thing.

What I'm talking about is a level with lots of open space like "Halo" but near the end it gets all hectic and crazy like the end of halo 3. I want there to be lots of obstacles, and you have to constantly switch vehicles to make it through different parts of the level, adding to the chaos. That's where the Death Star part comes in, there needs to be a flying part with lots of obstacles. It will be timed, and you have to get to each "checkpoint" and change vehicles or else you wont make it (ie, if you don't get to the banshee on time, you cant make it through the next part in the hog). My favorite part of the last H3 level was the "Oh shiiiittt" factor, if you know what I mean.

Also, I'd like to see some unique multiplayer in this one. Not just like what they did with ODST, and hopefully a gameplay style much different than the other games.

Warsaw
November 29th, 2009, 02:33 PM
I just want this game to be less cartoony, darker, and overall more realistic than the rest of the series. Also, iron sights.

Heathen
November 29th, 2009, 02:50 PM
I just want this game to be less cartoony, darker, and overall more realistic than the rest of the series. Also, iron sights.

iron sights on a needler :haw:

=sw=warlord
November 29th, 2009, 03:14 PM
iron sights on a Gravity hammer :haw:
:v:












:smith:

Warsaw
November 29th, 2009, 04:30 PM
iron sights on a needler :haw:

n u

Aim between the needles. :saddowns:

Lateksi
November 29th, 2009, 04:37 PM
The feel of Halo 1, more tactics involved, new weapons that aren't lame like many of the H2/H3 weapons were, cool scenarios placed in both old and new areas. That's pretty much to ask, though.

Heathen
November 29th, 2009, 05:16 PM
most of that is contradicting itself.

ejburke
November 29th, 2009, 05:50 PM
No more open world hub level structure. Let that replay value-killing experiment die with ODST. Keep it nice and linear with Reach, so I can play it over and over without hitting a speed bump between every level.

Warsaw
November 29th, 2009, 06:44 PM
No more open world hub level structure. Let that replay value-killing experiment die with ODST. Keep it nice and linear with Reach, so I can play it over and over without hitting a speed bump between every level.

wat. :raise:

I liked the hub though.

t3h m00kz
November 29th, 2009, 07:30 PM
The feel of Halo 1, more tactics involved, new weapons that aren't lame like many of the H2/H3 weapons were, cool scenarios placed in both old and new areas. That's pretty much to ask, though.

Splaser was the only good weapon added in Halo 3.

I do have to admit I liked the carbine in Halo 2, though.

=sw=warlord
November 29th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Splaser was the only good weapon added in Halo 3.

I do have to admit I liked the carbine in Halo 2, though.
Gravity hammer was pretty cool but i wish it was brute chieftain exclusive in that you couldnt pick it up and use it.

Corndogman
November 29th, 2009, 10:32 PM
It's a good thing they added it though, or else we wouldn't have grifball.

Also, playing as a brute in multiplayer would be neat. Though I remember everyone saying that before Halo 3 came out, and I think there was a reason they didn't add that.

t3h m00kz
November 30th, 2009, 03:50 AM
hitboxes. balance. most likely.

Lateksi
November 30th, 2009, 05:37 AM
Like Corndogman I'd like to have more characters such as flood combat forms, elites and brutes. If you've played Quake 3 or Live you know it could work if they changed the characters a bit to make them more same sized.

E: But anything like this ain't gonna happen.

Heathen
November 30th, 2009, 08:11 AM
Am I the only one who liked all the Halo 2 and 3 weapons?

Kornman00
November 30th, 2009, 08:30 AM
I just want this game to be less cartoony, darker, and overall more realistic than the rest of the series. Also, iron sights.
So you don't want Halo to be Halo? I hear this game called "Modern" Warfare just came out, you should check it out.

=sw=warlord
November 30th, 2009, 11:21 AM
So you don't want Halo to be Halo? I hear this game called "Modern" Warfare just came out, you should check it out.
I actualy agree with him, i would like to see a halo where it's actualy got a darker undertone to it all, where any mistake burns you with a big flaming torch.
halo 3 they tried making a few "heroic" scenes like miranda, but that was pretty obvious what was going to happen, if a single spartan has troubles fighting brutes head on a little pms woman is not going to have much chance in the middle of a bunch of brutes.
at the final level out of all the places on halo 343 guilty spark had to be in the control room didnt he.
What i want to see is the spartans preparing on the pillar of autmn and john gets the call to fight, as you decend to reachs atmosphere you watch the long sword protecting you being fired on and you see the actual onslaught like in ODSt in the drop sequence.

Warsaw
November 30th, 2009, 05:37 PM
So you don't want Halo to be Halo? I hear this game called "Modern" Warfare just came out, you should check it out.

Cartoony doesn't make Halo what it is. If that were the case, then the books wouldn't be so dark and gritty. The current style is Bungie essentially trying to preserve the cartoony feel of the first game which is a result of the technologies of the time. It's fine for the main trilogy, but they keep trying to make it more in depth and they are failing at that task because they never actually add more depth; all they do is add more guns and more enemies while failing to delve into more detail on the existing stuff.

Also, I hate modern warfare games. Give me the future or give me the past, playing terribad representations of counter-insurgency ops don't appeal to me.

thehoodedsmack
November 30th, 2009, 06:37 PM
What do you guys want, exactly, when you say "darker"? Halo can't get all that realistic. Aliens die, your fellow soldiers die, occasionally a main character bites it, what more can you do? You want the kind of realism described in the books? Brutes slashing heads off civilian children? Or maybe marines screaming out for their mothers while half their torso melts away from a plasma burn? Someone offer up some ideas besides saying "I want it darker and more realistic." The Halo games are already rated M, anyways. Adding any darker elements would be sure to garner the attention of anti-videogame critics, and stuff up a lot of unneeded fuss.

Heathen
November 30th, 2009, 06:55 PM
You want the kind of realism described in the books? Brutes slashing heads off civilian children? Or maybe marines screaming out for their mothers while half their torso melts away from a plasma burn?
Yes, I absolutely do. Why write such rich and interesting details when you aren't going to give it in the stories main medium? Its censorship of the worst kind. The kind that distorts the very subject. The kind that leads everyone to believe something that isn't. Let it be grim and gory. Its a war game.



Someone offer up some ideas besides saying "I want it darker and more realistic." The Halo games are already rated M, anyways.

Then let it earn it. Let it deserve it. People who say that halo deserves its M rating are the same people who's parents didn't let them watch TV until they were 14. Why do game companies have to bar themselves for parents? Its supposed to be the other way around. Parents are supposed to bar their children from the games if they don't want them exposed to something. Why make ratings like M or AO if people are going to fuss when their kids play the games with these ratings when they bought them for them? It makes developers shy away from the M and AO ratings so that people don't throw fits.



Adding any darker elements would be sure to garner the attention of anti-videogame critics, and stuff up a lot of unneeded fuss.

Let them get all fussy. They can't do anything about it because the labels clearly warn people what is in the game and what will be experienced. When the child comes up to the parent and says "Buy this for me," they should read it. By all means, let them get fussy.

=sw=warlord
November 30th, 2009, 07:10 PM
What do you guys want, exactly, when you say "darker"? Halo can't get all that realistic. Aliens die, your fellow soldiers die, occasionally a main character bites it, what more can you do? You want the kind of realism described in the books?
Yes actualy, i would like to see the grim side of halo, the side thats mentioned but rarely shown, ODSt was the first time in the entire series you actualy saw a covenant invasion glassing a planet, you hear about it in the other games you even get a sneak peek in halo3 when the flood arrives, but you never actualy saw the brutality.
what i want is to see limbs be sliced off when a energy sword cuts through said limbs, i want to see the decal as a plasma bolt hits your armour and burns it away.
The Halo games are already rated M, anyways.
It would be no worse than with terminator salvation where you see the guys belly blown to shreads with a metal skeleton inside with all the veins arteries and other stuff hanging out, that was what 12+ wasn't it?
when i was 12 the most gory films you got then was "james bond: world is not enough" and all that had was a thermal view right at the end through like 3 walls of bond boneing the chick but these days you get things like american pie which are far more direct on such subjects, these days you have as i said terminator and other much more detailed media.
Adding any darker elements would be sure to garner the attention of anti-videogame critics, and stuff up a lot of unneeded fuss.
There will always be critics in the world no matter what medium, infact i seem to remember few years back a modder got arrested on terrorism charges for making a level for a game which consisted of his school...
Im not sure about anyone else but when i saw Et Tu Brute, i was actualy interested in the brute ripping the arms of the marine and the brute punching the marine as well as the elite slicing the brutes legs off.

Warsaw
November 30th, 2009, 07:31 PM
^IAWTP

Also, Heathen took the words right out of my mouth. I want to shit my pants when a brute slices a Marine in half with the Brute shot or punches a hole in the hood of my Warthog. I want to feel honest fear when I hear the screech of Flood about to pounce on me and my hapless kin, and then I want to panic when said kin get mutated in gruesome fashion right before my eyes.

I think "Deadspace and Red Orchestra meet Halo" sums it up well.

TeeKup
November 30th, 2009, 07:40 PM
The Flood is the most horrifying force in the galaxy. An extra-galactic abomination to everything that is what we call normal. Able to convert known sentient beings into it's nightmarish thralls with in seconds, controlled by a malevolent and extremely intelligent central consciousness and able to communicate through any said thralls at any given time or distance.

Halo: Combat Evolved presented the flood very creepily. Halo 2 was SORT of creepy...not really. Halo 3 did shit all to make it creepy other than to show Gravemind is truly twisted and evil.

The flood is not original, but it did a good job at representing its villain archetype. I want to be scared shitless by it.

tl;dr, What my good friend Warsaw said.

Heathen
November 30th, 2009, 09:07 PM
So was I. I was just thinking about that the other day too!

E: at et tu brute knees and ripped in half stuff.

Con
December 1st, 2009, 01:26 AM
I always felt Halo games were too dumbed down and pretty. They really fail to showcase humanity's dire condition and the horrors of war. There's so much rich story-telling that could happen, but they hush it away in favour of gameplay.

Heathen
December 1st, 2009, 02:33 AM
I always felt Halo games were too dumbed down and pretty. They really fail to showcase humanity's dire condition and the horrors of war. There's so much rich story-telling that could happen, but they hush it away in favour of gameplay.

that...almost sounds like sarcasm...but thats pretty much right.

Kornman00
December 1st, 2009, 11:37 AM
I was really just poking fun at the whole "more realistic and iron sights" part. What part of iron sight makes it so damn great? It only eats up one more input (combo) IMHO. Realistic...yeah, be more specific with what you mean there. I agree, I would like to see some more Human aspects (no pun) in game. Like someone was saying, how this would actually affect the mind of a human in this kind of war.
OIF is a cake walk compared to this war. Not all marines you see are going to have a battle hardened mind. Hell, both sides should have a "omg, fuckfuckfuck gonna die!" character chance (in the actual game mechanics, not just dialouge). You know, not all the time, but some of the time (don't want your entire squad turning chicken now).

SnaFuBAR
December 1st, 2009, 01:44 PM
I would like to be able to sprint. It's a little aggravating to not be able to get myself out of trouble when the covenant masses catch me in a hard spot. That's one thing about halo that always bothered me. When I'm being shot at, I don't feel like moving at the speed of "leisurely walk through the park". I want to haul ass out of there, or get to an advatageous position, maybe set up for a hasty ambush.

Warsaw
December 1st, 2009, 07:05 PM
^That too. I can't count the number of times that I died because a single spike or needle got me in the back as I was walking away from a fight to find cover.

The best characters in any of the core trilogy games were the ones who were scared to insanity by the Flood. First time I played Halo 1, that guy gave me the willies.

TeeKup
December 2nd, 2009, 02:06 AM
The Flood in the first halo was presented very well I thought. Walking on that log and in the distance, glimpsing at some that just didn't seem right.

Delta4907
December 2nd, 2009, 03:32 PM
Yeah, especially since they appeared as allies on your radar, but they weren't marines.

Heathen
December 2nd, 2009, 04:29 PM
they WERE marines, just not good ones.

Warsaw
December 2nd, 2009, 06:20 PM
Also, what was up with the lack of infection form swarms in Halo 2? And how come they weren't very aggressive in Halo 3? It took the flood out of "Flood."

Heathen
December 2nd, 2009, 06:32 PM
they weren't even much of a nuisance on legendary on Halo 3.

Kornman00
December 2nd, 2009, 10:25 PM
they weren't even much of a nuisance on legendary on Halo 3.
um the pure forms in their needler variant were quite the nuisance

I'm pretty sure others will agree with this

especially on Cortana

Heathen
December 2nd, 2009, 10:26 PM
um the pure forms in their needler variant were quite the nuisance

I'm pretty sure others will agree with this

especially on Cortana
OH GOD FUCK I forgot about those...
GOD SDGHASGHSDKLFJGHA:FDASF
I cant type loud enough.
I hated those fuckign things.

Okay those were a pain, but not difficult.

Kornman00
December 3rd, 2009, 02:00 AM
Yeah, def a pain

in my ass

which they hit as I ran away screaming like a little girl

until my shields recharged and I went back out dual wielding plasma grenades like a suicide grunt. I bet I could stick it :neckbeard:

Pooky
December 3rd, 2009, 02:15 AM
um the pure forms in their needler variant were quite the nuisance

I'm pretty sure others will agree with this

especially on Cortana

protip: needle them right back.

TeeKup
December 3rd, 2009, 02:25 AM
I just dueled plasma rifles. Hardly had an issue.

=sw=warlord
December 3rd, 2009, 06:52 AM
Yeah, def a pain

in my ass

which they hit as I ran away screaming like a little girl

until my shields recharged and I went back out dual wielding plasma grenades like a suicide grunt. I bet I could stick it :neckbeard:
But kornman you scream like a little girl when grenanade shows up in play lists enough i bet you must be real good fun in co-op, i feel sorry for your team mates when you were doing the annual achievement:v:

Am i the only one here who is hoping for no flood in reach?

Hotrod
December 3rd, 2009, 07:37 AM
Am i the only one where who is hoping for no flood in reach?
Nah, I too am hoping for no flood in Reach. Not only did I love the lack of Flood in ODST, and want more of it in Reach, I also find that it would completely ruin the story line they already have if they did include it.

Pooky
December 3rd, 2009, 11:13 AM
I just dueled plasma rifles. Hardly had an issue.

eh, on legendary the plasma rifles dont do much to pure forms

Kornman00
December 3rd, 2009, 11:36 AM
i feel sorry for your team mates when you were doing the annual achievement:v:

<_>

:ugh:

Siliconmaster
December 3rd, 2009, 01:35 PM
<_>

:ugh:

Actually, that time when we did all the firefight achievements and then the vidmasters was quite enjoyable. I'd happily play more with you if I had the time.

Warsaw
December 3rd, 2009, 02:33 PM
eh, on legendary the plasma rifles dont do much to pure forms

Melee. :v:

=sw=warlord
December 3rd, 2009, 02:40 PM
Melee. :v:
Brute shot is invaluable on cortana.
KM we need to go on MW2 sometime.

Kornman00
December 3rd, 2009, 04:03 PM
KM we need to go on MW2 sometime.
I don't own this game you speak of :neckbeard:

at least, not a retail version anyway

I'm thinking of some ODST weekend though

Warsaw
December 3rd, 2009, 09:27 PM
Brute shot is invaluable on cortana.
KM we need to go on MW2 sometime.

I only used it for it's ranged attack; it was more effective than the needler for taking out ranged forms (the rocket launcher was cool too). For the rest, I found the plasma rifle melee more than sufficient, and the extreme stopping power of dual-wielded plasma rifles is invaluable in those tight corridors where the Flood attack en masse.

=sw=warlord
December 4th, 2009, 07:09 AM
I only used it for it's ranged attack; it was more effective than the needler for taking out ranged forms (the rocket launcher was cool too). For the rest, I found the plasma rifle melee more than sufficient, and the extreme stopping power of dual-wielded plasma rifles is invaluable in those tight corridors where the Flood attack en masse.
But with black eye the bruteshot was basicly like a energy sword that didnt use up ammo in terms of melee power, its able to kill off even the tank flood forms.

Rosco
December 4th, 2009, 10:57 AM
But kornman you scream like a little girl when grenanade shows up in play lists enough i bet you must be real good fun in co-op, i feel sorry for your team mates when you were doing the annual achievement:v:

Am i the only one here who is hoping for no flood in reach?

He didn't

We played, we owned.

It was good. :)

BobtheGreatII
December 5th, 2009, 01:33 AM
http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=BWU_120409


When you read the words in this space next Friday, you’ll be a mere twenty-four hours away from your first really good look at Halo: Reach. I wish I could get into the details with you today. Tell you about the swell of horns and strings that are bleeding through the wall right now as the finishing touches are being lovingly massaged into the Spike VGA world premiere video destined for next Saturday night.

:iamafag:

Delta4907
December 5th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Old, to me at least. They stated it would be premiered at the VGA's a few weeks ago. Can' wait. :iamafag:

NullZero
December 5th, 2009, 04:37 PM
Bungie Tweets: our cinematics run real time in our game engine, they're not outsourced CG

Futzy
December 5th, 2009, 04:45 PM
Bungie Tweets: our cinematics run real time in our game engine, they're not outsourced CG
When have Bungie cinematics ever been done in CG?
They do outsource other cg animators to help them in the cinematics though.

Siliconmaster
December 5th, 2009, 04:48 PM
When have Bungie cinematics ever been done in CG?
They do outsource other cg animators to help them in the cinematics though.

True, but people had apparently been worried Reach might have Halo Wars-style cinematics, instead of the classic halo style ones. Bungie responded.

=sw=warlord
December 5th, 2009, 07:41 PM
True, but people had apparently been worried Reach might have Halo Wars-style cinematics, instead of the classic halo style ones. Bungie responded.
Starry night, Prepare to drop etcetra etcetra.

Siliconmaster
December 5th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Starry night, Prepare to drop etcetra etcetra.

True, but I think they meant ingame cinematics, not advertising.

English Mobster
December 6th, 2009, 03:13 AM
They said it would be a part of the game's opening cutscene; I take that to mean it will be the first official look at the game's engine, as well, similar to how they showed off the first little bit of ODST at E3, except without gameplay footage.

Odd, this seems very un-Bungie-like to give us an opening cutscene right from the get-go, I would have expected some viral marketing like "Prepare to Drop".

=sw=warlord
December 6th, 2009, 07:28 AM
They said it would be a part of the game's opening cutscene; I take that to mean it will be the first official look at the game's engine, as well, similar to how they showed off the first little bit of ODST at E3, except without gameplay footage.

Odd, this seems very un-Bungie-like to give us an opening cutscene right from the get-go, I would have expected some viral marketing like "Prepare to Drop".
Yeah but the last viral marketing didn't go so well with everyone insisting odst was more expansion than full game.
If their going to show the first cutscene then they must be betting all their cards on this one scene.
In which case im expecting something we have not seen before in Halo.
Possibly the pre mission prep on autumn with the other spartans now that would interest me quite alot.

BobtheGreatII
December 6th, 2009, 04:14 PM
Yeah but the last viral marketing didn't go so well with everyone insisting odst was more expansion than full game.
If their going to show the first cutscene then they must be betting all their cards on this one scene.
In which case im expecting something we have not seen before in Halo.
Possibly the pre mission prep on autumn with the other spartans now that would interest me quite alot.

Everyone insisted that ODST was an expansion because it was damn close to what Bungie said. They then decided to actually make it in to a full game.

=sw=warlord
December 6th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Everyone insisted that ODST was an expansion because it was damn close to what Bungie said. They then decided to actually make it in to a full game.
But they still ignored the fact it came with every released mappack as well as stock, a beta key to halo reach as well as firefight mode which wasnt even mentioned untill E3.
Truth is people were so determined to consider it as an expansion they felt let down because it wasn't a "full blown" game it had just as much as left4dead in all honesty.

Pooky
December 7th, 2009, 12:20 AM
But they still ignored the fact it came with every released mappack as well as stock, a beta key to halo reach as well as firefight mode which wasnt even mentioned untill E3.
Truth is people were so determined to consider it as an expansion they felt let down because it wasn't a "full blown" game it had just as much as left4dead in all honesty.

The main thing is was really lacking, which was where the rushed timeframe really showed the most, was artistic variety. Every single mission, every single map, every single fucking city sector was the SAME GOD DAMN THING. I'd like to be able to Firefight in places other than New Mombasa, for example an Ark type desert area, or a jungle, a swamp, something. ODST map pack is pretty sorely needed.

=sw=warlord
December 7th, 2009, 08:59 AM
The main thing is was really lacking, which was where the rushed timeframe really showed the most, was artistic variety. Every single mission, every single map, every single fucking city sector was the SAME GOD DAMN THING. I'd like to be able to Firefight in places other than New Mombasa, for example an Ark type desert area, or a jungle, a swamp, something. ODST map pack is pretty sorely needed.
Firefight on the halo control room would be pretty nice, im sure theyl add something simular with reach.

English Mobster
December 7th, 2009, 09:07 AM
List of features absolutely REQUIRED in Reach:
Firefight
Forge
Theater

If any one of those goes missing, fans will bitch and Bungie KNOWS it.

Huero
December 7th, 2009, 09:20 PM
The main thing is was really lacking, which was where the rushed timeframe really showed the most, was artistic variety. Every single mission, every single map, every single fucking city sector was the SAME GOD DAMN THING. I'd like to be able to Firefight in places other than New Mombasa, for example an Ark type desert area, or a jungle, a swamp, something. ODST map pack is pretty sorely needed.
The park and the highway were pretty different.

t3h m00kz
December 7th, 2009, 10:02 PM
List of features absolutely REQUIRED in Reach:
Firefight
Forge
Theater
M6D Rape Machine

If any one of those goes missing, fans will bitch and Bungie KNOWS it.

ftfy

Warsaw
December 7th, 2009, 11:35 PM
Because the BR55 wasn't a rape machine...trade one overpowered gun for another. :downs:

t3h m00kz
December 8th, 2009, 12:00 AM
BR55 was a nerf in Halo 2. In Halo 3 it was a fucking squirtgun.

EX12693
December 8th, 2009, 12:05 AM
no. it was just a noisemaker that let everyone know where you are.

Warsaw
December 8th, 2009, 10:16 AM
And yet everyone still whored it anyways...either way, the Carbine and BR55 are just ever-so-slightly toned down M6Ds with a rifle makeover. Large hitboxes don't help its cause.

Personally, I don't mind having an OP weapon; I just hate watching everyone bash the M6D for being OP when the BR and Carbine were almost if not just as OP as the M6D.

TeeKup
December 8th, 2009, 08:54 PM
I just want my hand cannon back...is that too much to ask for?

Pooky
December 9th, 2009, 11:25 AM
Because the BR55 wasn't a rape machine...trade one overpowered gun for another. :downs:

BR55 has nothing on the M6D. The only reason it might seem overpowered is because most of the other weapons in Halo 2 were nerfed even more.

FRain
December 9th, 2009, 11:32 PM
Yeah, there's a difference between a whore weapon and a hand cannon.

t3h m00kz
December 10th, 2009, 01:04 AM
Halo 1. most of the weapons kicked ass, some were useless. Halo 2, they nerfed them a bit. Halo 3, they were all equally useless.

I'm not bothered by the physical design of the BR55 (I actually like the idea of a rifle being used for long-range combat) but rather the fact that it was a less powerful, more spammy version of the Pistol's functionality.

Warsaw
December 11th, 2009, 08:07 PM
Whether it's OP or all the other guns are nerfed makes no difference because the end result is the same; everyone is going to whore the one effective gun.

English Mobster
December 11th, 2009, 08:43 PM
I think the H1 weapons were awesome, TBH. No nerfing of anything, they were all fine.

t3h m00kz
December 12th, 2009, 12:11 AM
With some minor tweaks by Inferno, yes they were. :downs:

Daishi
December 12th, 2009, 01:46 PM
I think the H1 weapons were awesome, TBH. No nerfing of anything, they were all fine.

Frankly, I am probably one of the few who thought the assault rifle was relatively useless. Inaccurate as all shit, and didn't do a heap of damage when you hit someone. The only redeeming part of it is its large magazine and high rate of fire...which sounds strangely like a submachine gun.

Heathen
December 12th, 2009, 02:57 PM
which is why they made it stronger, with a smaller clip, and kept the smg :downs:

Cagerrin
December 12th, 2009, 06:25 PM
which is why they made it stronger, with a smaller mag, and kept the smg :downs:
ftfy

Higuy
December 12th, 2009, 07:36 PM
With some minor tweaks by Inferno, yes they were. :downs:
Uhhhh no.

Siliconmaster
December 12th, 2009, 11:02 PM
I found the release trailer to be quite beautiful, but at first glance fairly lacking in information. I watched it a second time via that youtube link, and I noticed a few extra things- that one guy is an ODST, not a spartan; that there's a covenant ship hovering in the clouds near the end; and that Elite is still as beautifully terrifying as the first time.

All in all, the more times I watch it, the more excited I am. Can't wait for the HD versions. HBO reports that it should be online by 3am EST (midnight PST)

Delta4907
December 12th, 2009, 11:19 PM
Just because they have ODST-looking helmets doesn't make them ODST's. I'm pretty positive that they are all spartans.
Here's some dialog to back it up:
George: "Didn't think anyone survived Pegasi sir" (looking at the newcomer)
Commander: "Spartans never die George, they're just missin' in action."
Spartans in reference to the fact that there were spartans at Pegasi, and Noble Six is a surviving spartan.

Siliconmaster
December 12th, 2009, 11:26 PM
True- I thought the same, but the discussion over at HBO postured that that guy was also smaller than the others, suggesting he wasn't a Spartan. This is all speculation- I have no idea who is who. Nice pick up on the Pegasi reference.

Cagerrin
December 12th, 2009, 11:29 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else think Bungie's writers have gotten worse with every game?

Siliconmaster
December 12th, 2009, 11:32 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else think Bungie's writers have gotten worse with every game?

I actually liked the writing- ODST was especially fun to listen to, for me. I also consider the books to be part of the plotline, so any connection between the books and games is a plus in my mind.

I'd say Halo 1 had a better subtle plot line in that it never explicitly stated the plot until after the player figured it out. The later games were a bit blunter- I agree that it would be nice if they went back to that subtle style of storytelling.

Cagerrin
December 12th, 2009, 11:38 PM
I actually liked the writing- ODST was especially fun to listen to, for me. I also consider the books to be part of the plotline, so any connection between the books and games is a plus in my mind.

I'd say Halo 1 had a better subtle plot line in that it ever explicitly stated the plot until after the player figured it out. THe later games were a bit blunter- I agree that it would be nice if they went back to that subtle style of storytelling.
ODST wasn't bad, true. I just tend to think of it as pre-H3 rather than post, so my opinion on the writing isn't as strong.

Also since when was Halo brown/gray/etc? Maybe it's just because I've only seen the shit-quality versions floating about but one of my favourite things about Halo is that Bungie's never really been afraid of using colours liberally unlike so many other studios?

t3h m00kz
December 12th, 2009, 11:42 PM
storywise, I'd have to say ODST> Halo 2 > Halo 3.

Reach might be good.

It's been a while since I played through Halo 1 so I've forgotten how the storytelling went.

ejburke
December 13th, 2009, 12:29 AM
Bungie has issues with storytelling, but I think their biggest problem is delivering interesting characterizations *. I'm worried about this Spartan squad. I'm worried that some or all of them will die and I won't give a crap. And the dramatic narrative will hinge on the faulty assumption that I would give a crap.

Ooh, but look. They replaced the Pelicans with an eminently more pilot-able aerial transport vehicle. Now why would they go to all that trouble? I wonder.

* Excluding the Chief and his minimalistically stoic persona.

Amit
December 13th, 2009, 01:00 AM
I'm kind of afraid that I might not like the plot if it's different than what happened on Reach in First Strike. That's my problem. Bungie is not locked down to do what an author wrote about, but it would still seem like a kick in the gut if they allowed the Fall of Reach to become so widespread and not use the story. However, that was a long time ago, before Halo 2 was even out.

Warsaw
December 13th, 2009, 02:05 AM
They are already screwing with the story. For starters, it looks like they are wearing Unreal-inspired versions of the Mk. VI MJOLNIR armour, when they should all be wearing the Mk. V. Second, one of the signature Spartan II things is that they are all wearing the iridescent green armour, and that there are no markings on them whatsoever. That is part of what makes them like nameless/faceless ghosts in the field.

I like the visual style, I don't like the stylised approach to the actual world though. If I want to play Gears of War or Unreal Tournament 3, then I will go and play them. Leave Unreal out of my Halo, thanks.

t3h m00kz
December 13th, 2009, 02:23 AM
The main argument I've heard is that it's looking too much like Gears of War.

My argument against that is it's just because the engine looks GOOD now :mech2:

But really, let's not forget Halo was originally a blend of Ringworld and Aliens. They've never really been original.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_References_to_Aliens_in_Halo

Siliconmaster
December 13th, 2009, 03:08 AM
http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=HaloReach_SpikeVGAs

The trailer is out in HD!

annihilation
December 13th, 2009, 03:51 AM
Dear god, I can't wait for this to come out.

Heathen
December 13th, 2009, 03:57 AM
ftfy

which is why they made it stronger, with a smaller bullets, and kept the smg :downs:
ftfm

=sw=warlord
December 13th, 2009, 05:27 AM
They are already screwing with the story. For starters, it looks like they are wearing Unreal-inspired versions of the Mk. VI MJOLNIR armour, when they should all be wearing the Mk. V. Second, one of the signature Spartan II things is that they are all wearing the iridescent green armour, and that there are no markings on them whatsoever. That is part of what makes them like nameless/faceless ghosts in the field.

I like the visual style, I don't like the stylised approach to the actual world though. If I want to play Gears of War or Unreal Tournament 3, then I will go and play them. Leave Unreal out of my Halo, thanks.
This, as much as i like the idea of spartans using older armour im not too keen on the unreal style armour setup, the spartans were made to seem like ghosts, faceless soldiers that never let up and never die and then you get bungie come along and slap facepaint onto on spartans helmet and then paint the rest different colours.:smith:
Also am i the only one who noticed the music was more rock/unreal style than the normal halo style with orchestra.

Terry
December 13th, 2009, 05:38 AM
Yeah, I don't like the new guys already. Their accents are super annoying, and they look really tacky.

=sw=warlord
December 13th, 2009, 06:35 AM
Hmm not sure if anyone else noticed this.
http://i48.tinypic.com/y040j.jpgStill not liking the whole facepaint on helmet thing, that kind of thing is usualy reserved for the GoW and Unreal kind of game not Halo.
Also i know the spartans were enhanced but...
http://i48.tinypic.com/2zizksg.jpg

L0d3x
December 13th, 2009, 08:34 AM
They are already screwing with the story. For starters, it looks like they are wearing Unreal-inspired versions of the Mk. VI MJOLNIR armour, when they should all be wearing the Mk. V. Second, one of the signature Spartan II things is that they are all wearing the iridescent green armour, and that there are no markings on them whatsoever. That is part of what makes them like nameless/faceless ghosts in the field.

I like the visual style, I don't like the stylised approach to the actual world though. If I want to play Gears of War or Unreal Tournament 3, then I will go and play them. Leave Unreal out of my Halo, thanks.

I agree with you completely.

teh lag
December 13th, 2009, 08:58 AM
:/

Visually pretty impressive. Can't say I'm a fan of much else. I'm not at all liking the GOW look, especially for the Spartans. I can't believe we didn't get to see the Mjolnir Mark V helmet again, or at least the classic green armor (agahaghhsgdrf why are two of them blue?). I honestly thought I was looking at ODSTs at first. I miss the Pelican too... it's pretty much the definitive Human flier. If it wasn't for the Hogs and the BR on the guy's back, I honestly would need to be told this was Halo and not some generic spacemarine game.

The one addressed as "Commander" is Carter-259 (see 1:19 mark)... I was hoping to see Fred and Kelly and co. here, but it looks like we're following some other group. Welp. I'm guessing that this probably isn't the group in Fall of Reach (I don't think the books mentioned some "lone wolf" dude meeting up with them)... FOR had all Spartans not in that group of 5-6 get glassed before anything important happened, so I'm eager to see how (if?) Bungie gets themselves out of that one.

E; yeah the unarmored (wtf!?!?!?) prosthetic arm is a major oddity. I really don't like the direction this is going in.

E2; The Spartan numbers that I can see:

"Commander" = Carter-259
Robo Arm Woman = Kat-320
Red Shoulder with drinking canteen embedded in his chest = Jorge 052
Sniper = ???
Dutch Wannabe = ???
Lone Wolf = ???

This definitely isn't the team that we know. Oh well.

=sw=warlord
December 13th, 2009, 09:01 AM
Lag, what do you think of the whole robotic arm thing, because that kind of strikes me as odd because no spartans in the books were refferenced as having a artificial arm without being a drop out.

Hotrod
December 13th, 2009, 09:13 AM
Lag, what do you think of the whole robotic arm thing, because that kind of strikes me as odd because no spartans in the books were refferenced as having a artificial arm without being a drop out.
Actually, there was one Spartan who did get his arm blown off, and was still present in later battles, which was James. So it makes plenty of sense to have another Spartan with a prosthetic arm.

I, for one, really am in love with Halo Reach, every bit of it. I was expecting it to look good, but definitely not as good as this. Sure, I am disappointed to not see any Pelicans in that cinematic, but I'm more than sure that there will be some that show up in the game. Bungie aren't idiots, they know we want Pelicans, and they will give us Pelicans...at least...I hope so...

=sw=warlord
December 13th, 2009, 09:26 AM
Actually, there was one Spartan who did get his arm blown off, and was still present in later battles, which was James. So it makes plenty of sense to have another Spartan with a prosthetic arm.
Which book was that in because i don't remember that, i do remeber one being vapourised by a hunter fuel gun though
I, for one, really am in love with Halo Reach, every bit of it. I was expecting it to look good, but definitely not as good as this. Agreed, this engine actualy looks like a newer engine not an upgraded halo 2 engine, although the skull on helmet botheres me a little.
I find my self rather fond to the new particle system, those clouds and the explosion look pretty good.

teh lag
December 13th, 2009, 09:30 AM
Actually, there was one Spartan who did get his arm blown off, and was still present in later battles, which was James. So it makes plenty of sense to have another Spartan with a prosthetic arm.

I, for one, really am in love with Halo Reach, every bit of it. I was expecting it to look good, but definitely not as good as this. Sure, I am disappointed to not see any Pelicans in that cinematic, but I'm more than sure that there will be some that show up in the game. Bungie aren't idiots, they know we want Pelicans, and they will give us Pelicans...at least...I hope so...

My problem isn't with that it's there. My problem is with it being exposed like that. What advantage could there be to having those (comparatively) small metal bones out there instead of the Mjolnir's arm piece?

And, an interesting observation from some HBO dudes:

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=956942


it sounds A LOT like 052 says "Pegasi." If he means Pegasi-Delta, then there's a good likelyhood that at least the Lieutenant is a Spartan-III. That means that the events of Ghosts of Onyx The SIII assault on Pegasi Delta, is a part of the LT's backstory. Of course this is all speculation, but it would certainly be a new direction. Of course, with Bungie, there's rarely no backstory.

Spartan IIIs would at least be nicer than totally re-working what happened to the Spartan-IIs. I'll be quiet for now, I guess...

=sw=warlord
December 13th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Anyone notice Jorge mentioned Pegasi, if he talking about Pegasi delta than it sounds like the new guy maybe a spartan 3.
If thats the case it could well be more of them are also spartan 3's which would explain the skull paint on the big guy as well as the rest having their helmets off.
Spartan 2's were rarely ever shown to have their helmets removed in books or in the game with the cheif, how ever the spartan 3's were not trained from a young age they were recruited which would explain the loose military attitude and removal of PPE[Personal protection equipment] in a combat zone.
E: gah lag beat me to it.

FRain
December 13th, 2009, 11:11 AM
I have two things to say about this if this really is an ingame cinematic.

60fps

Anti Aliasing.

Also, who is to say those aren't mark V outfits? Who said those other variants were Mark VI specific? Who said those Mark VI variants weren't reworked?

Rob Oplawar
December 13th, 2009, 11:20 AM
Visually pretty impressive. Can't say I'm a fan of much else.
IAWTP.

Here's the thing. They seem to be moving away from their origins here. My opinion is, if you're going to keep doing Halo, preserve those things which make it unique and which the fans love. It's nice to add new vehicles, but don't replace the pelican. It's nice to make the engine prettier, but don't make it brown like every other FPS.
Then again, I wholly approve of them doing new things: Do a new IP! We all love Halo, but Bungie and MS are really starting to do it to death. This is the 6th Halo game, and while the new engine looks gorgeous, in order to make it anything but the same thing we've seen five times before, they're risking alienating the fans. If you want to keep doing new things, move on, and let Halo be Halo, imo.

Now, I loved FoR, and I am interested to see a gritty, realistic Halo in a gorgeous new engine following one of the better story arcs in the series. This game has plenty of opportunity to be fucking amazing. But, after getting my hopes up for Halo 2, and then Halo 3, and then Halo Wars, and then ODST, I still find the original to be the one I love. Not that those games detract from the original by their mere existence, and this game will be no different, and it is nice to continue to explore the universe. As for the corny dialogue in the trailer, it's not as though Halo 1 had such fantastic dialogue either (perhaps our standards were lower back then? or perhaps it was balanced by the story we've come to know and love). I'll give Bungie the benefit of the doubt here and say this game, despite its departure from its origins and the worrying decline of quality in their storytelling, looks pretty fucking sweet.

Plus, they insist that this one really is their last Halo game, and that they really are working on a new IP as we speak. Here's hoping Halo goes out with a bang and not with a whimper, and here's hoping their new IP will be a worthy successor to Marathon and Halo.


e: Also, the irony is not lost on me that I have spent a few years working on my own addition to the Halo universe while complaining about Bungie's additions to the Halo universe. I'm a hopeless fanboi, aren't I?

Dwood
December 13th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Whelp, time for everyone to start making things that look like Halo Reach in Halo PC.

Unless this really is the time... That we can't replicate half the stuff that goes on. e: Which I higly doubt

Kornman00
December 13th, 2009, 11:41 AM
I'm holding off my thoughts until the Beta, when we actually get to experience the game first hand and not just a segment of the first cinematic to a currently alien game whose direction we really don't have a clue of yet. All we know is that it is Reach, and I'm doubting they would just do a game of a book (check out their newest Writer position for what they're NOT looking for to clue you in). Tie ins yes, but just like ODST, I'm betting this is a view from another angle in the battle.

Hmmm...well now, doesn't that moutain look familiar...

BobtheGreatII
December 13th, 2009, 11:46 AM
They keep making the spartans look better and better, just makes the big MC look low tech. :saddowns:

Rob Oplawar
December 13th, 2009, 11:56 AM
Just so we're clear, the trailer, and the game, still look pretty good. My post comes from my experience getting excited about Halo sequels only to be let down because it wasn't exactly what I wanted it to be. I think those of us who are admittedly obsessed with the story each have our own conception of how it should be told, and it's impossible to live up to everybody's competing expectations. As far as gameplay and engine go, each of the games has been successively better, and this game certainly looks like no exception. I love the games for how fun they are, regardless of the storyline behind them. However, I really do like the backstory as well, and I know Bungie is still really trying hard on the storyline aspect, but each game has been kind of a let-down on that front (probably because we're putting Halo 1 on a pedestal it doesn't really fit on). I've been hurt before. So this time I'm just noting that the trailer only really shows us a gorgeous engine rather than getting excited over the game, so that when it does come out, I can either play it and say "oh, this is fun" or play it and be pleasantly surprised by the quality of the story arc in the campaign.

And let's be clear on one thing: in terms of fun, the campaigns and the mp have always been tops (with the possible exception of a couple of frustrating points on Legendary, but hey, that's Legendary) and I expect no less from Reach.

Phopojijo
December 13th, 2009, 11:58 AM
BLAM ENGINE PLUZ PLUZ LOLOLOL of course
(late because I don't check this forum much)

Dude, you're a programmer. Blam Engine++ is the same damn engine...

++Blam Engine.

ejburke
December 13th, 2009, 12:55 PM
The new vehicle isn't supposed to replace the Pelican, it appears to be an aerial Warthog that the player will actually be able to pilot. Flip-open, one-person canopy/cockpit; manageable size; landing skids instead of retractable landing gears -- these are the three requirements for making a player-controlled aerial transport vehicle. Check, check, and check.

Besides, it can't replace a Pelican, because it's restricted to atmosphere. And you'd need 3 of them just to deliver the payload of marines that one Pelican can. That wouldn't be very efficient in terms of performance.

As for the armor, it appears that they are sticking with the Mark V chestplate for most of them. And one of the helmets bore a resemblance to the Mark V. Obviously, there was some re-imagining going on.

All the permutations definitely hurt the iconic nature of the specific MJOLNIR armor we've come to know, but I understand that you can't have identical-looking characters. Which is why I never thought we'd see more than one Spartan when the main character is a Spartan himself.

I'm not so in love with the graphics as most. The engine seems fine, but Bungie's asset creation pipeline still looks like it's stuck 6 years in the past. They think they can get away with drawing in their normal maps when most every other company makes super-high res meshes to generate the bulk of their characters' normals and textures. The game just looks a bit crude and chunky to me.

Also not a fan of some of the walk animations. Motion capture is still a dirty word in Kirkland, it appears.

Kornman00
December 13th, 2009, 01:32 PM
Dude, you're a programmer. Blam Engine++ is the same damn engine...

++Blam Engine.
:raise:

I was speaking in terms of naming schemes. C, C++, C#, LOLCODE...

Either way, after you read/say it, it no longer is the same engine. It's PLUZ PLUZ LOLOLOL

Delta4907
December 13th, 2009, 02:20 PM
Don't forget Bungie's redux of the Mark V armor: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/e/e0/Gallery_6889_853_280617.jpg

The helmet resembles the helmet's used for some of the spartans in the premiere, so they may have used that concept instead of Halo 1's or 3's, then with each spartan having a more customized variant of it. Or I could just be all wrong.

Warsaw
December 13th, 2009, 02:30 PM
The main argument I've heard is that it's looking too much like Gears of War.

My argument against that is it's just because the engine looks GOOD now :mech2:

But really, let's not forget Halo was originally a blend of Ringworld and Aliens. They've never really been original.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_References_to_Aliens_in_Halo

If you take the original Halo characters and make them look as good as this engine, then it won't look like Unreal. Now the characters look like they are hyped up on steroids and the armour is super bulky while much less protective-looking...sounds like Unreal and Gears of War to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love Gears and I love Unreal, but the look just doesn't work for Halo, especially when one of the key points of Halo has been being somewhat realistic.

E: The image linked to by Delta4907 is fantastic, but in the premiere they made the armour/guys underneath really fat/big and removed a lot of the plating. It looks retarded.

Heathen
December 13th, 2009, 03:30 PM
Anyone notice Jorge mentioned Pegasi, if he talking about Pegasi delta than it sounds like the new guy maybe a spartan 3.
If thats the case it could well be more of them are also spartan 3's which would explain the skull paint on the big guy as well as the rest having their helmets off.
Spartan 2's were rarely ever shown to have their helmets removed in books or in the game with the cheif, how ever the spartan 3's were not trained from a young age they were recruited which would explain the loose military attitude and removal of PPE[Personal protection equipment] in a combat zone.
E: gah lag beat me to it.

This would also go along with them having accents.

Why would soldiers trained from children have accents?

Kornman00
December 13th, 2009, 04:44 PM
Is it just me or does the Commander resemble Sgt Forge?

Siliconmaster
December 13th, 2009, 05:00 PM
Is it just me or does the Commander resemble Sgt Forge?

Oh shit, you're right. :raise:

Delta4907
December 13th, 2009, 05:34 PM
Brother maybe? Might be related. (Probably not though)

Terry
December 13th, 2009, 06:49 PM
Oh and as Shishka pointed out, the skull on the EVA's helmet isn't paint. He carved it in with his knife.

Some descriptions floating around say you're a spartan III


Step into the boots of a Spartan III, as Halo: Reach charts the story of Noble ... and prepare for the first look at “Halo: Reach,”


I haven't seen that on any official site though.

Siliconmaster
December 13th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Ok, now that is badass.

Heathen
December 13th, 2009, 07:04 PM
He carved it in with his knife.

Uh...duh?

Was I the only one that noticed that from the video?

You guys thought it was paint?

Terry
December 13th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Uh...duh?

Was I the only one that noticed that from the video?

You guys thought it was paint?

I take it the people who saw it on youtube and were referring to it as paint probably did :mech2:

t3h m00kz
December 13th, 2009, 07:17 PM
They keep making the spartans look better and better, just makes the big MC look low tech. :saddowns:

So... you want a newer game to look.. worse?

Saggy
December 13th, 2009, 07:21 PM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2009/12/lot114.jpg
http://kotaku.com/5425454/bungie-donation-points-to-halo-reach-multiplayer-in-may-%5Bupdate%5D

Beta may be coming no earlier than May 2010. Can't say I'm surprised, that's about the time the Halo 3 Beta went out. Would be nicer to have it come out earlier, but we're just lucky to be playing it early at all.

Hotrod
December 13th, 2009, 10:23 PM
My problem isn't with that it's there. My problem is with it being exposed like that. What advantage could there be to having those (comparatively) small metal bones out there instead of the Mjolnir's arm piece?
Good point actually. The thing is, I think they want to show that she does have a prosthetic arm and really shove that information in your face. If they hid it under the Mjolnir's arm piece, most people wouldn't really know the difference.

And it was in the Fall of Reach that James lost his arm, and he is seen later on with the Chief during the actual invasion of Reach when Blue Team was sent to secure the NAV date in the Circumference.

Pooky
December 14th, 2009, 12:04 AM
Didn't like anything I saw, including the engine. Hopefully this won't be shit, but I'm not getting my hopes up. At least there's always Mass Effect 2.

Siliconmaster
December 14th, 2009, 12:26 AM
Why didn't you like the engine? I mean, disregarding the grayish color cast, it finally has AA, nice depth of field, high res textures, and what looks like a nice drawing distance. What isn't there to like?

BobtheGreatII
December 14th, 2009, 12:36 AM
So... you want a newer game to look.. worse?

YES! :v:

Pooky
December 14th, 2009, 12:46 AM
Why didn't you like the engine? I mean, disregarding the grayish color cast, it finally has AA, nice depth of field, high res textures, and what looks like a nice drawing distance. What isn't there to like?

I dunno, something about it just felt wrong to me. The characters seemed to pop out awkwardly from the background, like DOOM sprites in a Crysis screenshot.

=sw=warlord
December 14th, 2009, 08:36 AM
Is it just me or does the Commander resemble Sgt Forge?
Yeah no...
Similar but doubt their related, forge was a marine not a spartan plus he got got split to atoms by the mini sun going super nova, Carter has blue eyes forge has brown.
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/HawxF22/ForgeCarter.png

Lateksi
December 14th, 2009, 10:56 AM
The trailer reminded me of the Unreal Tournament game intros!

Kornman00
December 14th, 2009, 10:57 AM
omfg, I edited your post by mistake think it was a quote :gonk:. Hopefully u still have the link to that picture...



Yeah no...
Similar but doubt their related, forge was a marine not a spartan plus he got got split to atoms by the mini sun going super nova, Carter has blue eyes forge has brown.


Is it just me or does the Commander resemble Sgt Forge?
I was just remarking at how they looked a like, in the artsy kind of way.

But...

What if Sgt Forge was really a flash clone who by magic sauce survived being a clone and this is the real "forge" :realsmug:

Warsaw
December 14th, 2009, 10:59 AM
The trailer reminded me of the Unreal Tournament game intros!

This does not bode well.


Good point actually. The thing is, I think they want to show that she does have a prosthetic arm and really shove that information in your face. If they hid it under the Mjolnir's arm piece, most people wouldn't really know the difference.

And it was in the Fall of Reach that James lost his arm, and he is seen later on with the Chief during the actual invasion of Reach when Blue Team was sent to secure the NAV date in the Circumference.

And then he goes flying out into space after a needler shard detonates his jet pack. :haw:

I don't remember any other Spartans having prostheses, and any prosthesis would probably be inferior to the original arm it replaces.

As for the current state of the Mk. V: the main thing making it look fugly is the lack of shoulder plates...seriously, the lack of them changes the profile dramatically and it looks weird.

ejburke
December 14th, 2009, 11:49 AM
A lot of the shoulder armor looks weird. Like they took car parts and hydraulic motors and bolted them onto the arms.

This is what I mean with all these permutations killing the iconography of the MJOLNIR armor. It's all a mish-mash of mediocre, instead of a crafted, specific look that is tweaked until it's damn near perfect.

Kornman00
December 14th, 2009, 11:49 AM
I don't remember any other Spartans having prostheses, and any prosthesis would probably be inferior to the original arm it replaces.

As for the current state of the Mk. V: the main thing making it look fugly is the lack of shoulder plates...seriously, the lack of them changes the profile dramatically and it looks weird.
Of course, all of this goes out the window if this is indeed the SIIIs. Since they aren't trained from childhood, they could have had the artifical limbs either before or after attending the augmentations.

One should also note how this may play into the game. The arm may be detachable to allow other attachments to be...(wait for it) attached. Hence why it is so noticable, because her character (maybe she represents a certain class if this is class based game) is the baseline or the default permutation for this SIII type.

If they are SIIIs, they wouldn't be rocking the same armor as the SIIs of course.

Like I said earlier, I highly doubt bungie would be making TFOR into a game. They don't do those sorts of things. They'll do books/games which expand upon existing media, but they won't reinvent the wheel. You should all consider this before you go off naysaying everything with assumptions.



A lot of the shoulder armor looks weird. Like they took car parts and hydraulic motors and bolted them onto the arms.

This is what I mean with all these permutations killing the iconography of the MJOLNIR armor. It's all a mish-mash of mediocre, instead of a crafted, specific look that is tweaked until it's damn near perfect.
The SIIIs were meant to be mass produced like ammunition. Thus, they weren't developing armor for a specific set of soldiers who were hand picked from child hood. Instead, they would be using whatever resources (who knows, the SIIIs may even build their own) to build their armor, especially on a huge military planet such as Reach. Hell, all of their armor may be various prototypes for specific SIII subject matter experts (could be hinted at the fact that the LT is a 'lone-wolf').

Martini-562
December 14th, 2009, 01:29 PM
omfg, I edited your post by mistake think it was a quote :gonk:. Hopefully u still have the link to that picture...



I was just remarking at how they looked a like, in the artsy kind of way.

But...

What if Sgt Forge was really a flash clone who by magic sauce survived being a clone and this is the real "forge" :realsmug:

Couldn't it be forge's son? I mean, let's not forget there's a 20 year gap between the the end of Harvest and the beginning of Reach. And I don't think that Sgt Forge became daddy during deployment.

=sw=warlord
December 14th, 2009, 02:11 PM
The SIIIs were meant to be mass produced like ammunition. Thus, they weren't developing armor for a specific set of soldiers who were hand picked from child hood. Instead, they would be using whatever resources (who knows, the SIIIs may even build their own) to build their armor, especially on a huge military planet such as Reach. Hell, all of their armor may be various prototypes for specific SIII subject matter experts (could be hinted at the fact that the LT is a 'lone-wolf').
This is what im thinking, the spartan 2 varients were strict military where as spartan 3's were off the front lines and then augmented later in life, i really don't think a SII would carve a skull into their visor for the cool effect as they would probably find it distracting to their own eye sight, off the road soldiers however...
The LT seem's a little odd to me, Him and S-052 make me think SII, the SII's were originaly numbered upto 150 and then narrowed down to 75 after funding issues but the SIII's were anything above that.
Another thing im curious about is, wasn't Kurt promoted to LT and then assigned to work with SIII's?
Seems bungie has a rather large and sharp ace up their sleeves, let just hope its an ace of spades.

Also should i feel bad or happy that i think the ingame CGI for reach looks better than the pre-rendered CGI in the halowars cutscenes?

Warsaw
December 14th, 2009, 02:40 PM
What's all this talk of Spartan-IIIs being recruited from the regular pool? When I read Gosts of Onyx, it said that they were children as well, with Beta Group being comprised of 12 and 13 year olds...which is why it was so traumatic to the two survivors...they were not even teenagers yet and they watched their friends get slaughtered wholesale. The only things it mentioned that were different than the Spartan-II programme were the disposability factor, SPI armour, and the fact that the augmentation routine had been refined so far that 100% of the candidates made it by the time Gamma Team was done.

@M-562: Can't be Forge's son, since he joined the Marines at 17 and has been a part of the Corps ever since. And he doesn't seem the type to do one night stands either.

=sw=warlord
December 14th, 2009, 02:45 PM
@M-562: Can't be Forge's son, since he joined the Marines at 17 and has been a part of the Corps ever since. And he doesn't seem the type to do one night stands either.

Manual mentions forge as "the guy you want in the foxhole next to yours but would never introduce to your sister"

The spartan 3's were basicly riff raff, refugees with no home left to goto and what ever else suitable, they were supposed to be disposable arms much like [sorry KM] normal soldiers, mendez mentions in fall of reach the difference between a life spent and a life wasted teaching john now he is commander of the spartans he must "expend" his spartans at times for the greater good.

Warsaw
December 14th, 2009, 03:43 PM
Yeah, I know that, but they were still children in Ghosts of Onyx. I don't have the book, so if you could give me an excerpt and page number where they mention that they are general recruits, that would be cool (+rep for anybody who does this =o).

I'm a whore for videogame lore. :haw:

English Mobster
December 14th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Microsoft Press Release:
http://gamerscoreblog.com/press/archive/2009/12/13/kz123.aspx

Step into the boots of a Spartan III and prepare for the first look at “Halo: Reach,” the highly anticipated prequel to the “Halo” trilogy from acclaimed developer Bungie coming fall 2010.
SIII it is.

Heathen
December 14th, 2009, 07:15 PM
Of course, all of this goes out the window if this is indeed the SIIIs. Since they aren't trained from childhood, they could have had the artifical limbs either before or after attending the augmentations.

One should also note how this may play into the game. The arm may be detachable to allow other attachments to be...(wait for it) attached. Hence why it is so noticable, because her character (maybe she represents a certain class if this is class based game) is the baseline or the default permutation for this SIII type.

If they are SIIIs, they wouldn't be rocking the same armor as the SIIs of course.

Like I said earlier, I highly doubt bungie would be making TFOR into a game. They don't do those sorts of things. They'll do books/games which expand upon existing media, but they won't reinvent the wheel. You should all consider this before you go off naysaying everything with assumptions.



The SIIIs were meant to be mass produced like ammunition. Thus, they weren't developing armor for a specific set of soldiers who were hand picked from child hood. Instead, they would be using whatever resources (who knows, the SIIIs may even build their own) to build their armor, especially on a huge military planet such as Reach. Hell, all of their armor may be various prototypes for specific SIII subject matter experts (could be hinted at the fact that the LT is a 'lone-wolf').

I already saw a heavy and a sniper, assuming the prosthetic chick is lighter than the others with lack of parts of her body could make her the scout, the batshit crazy looking knife guy could be pyro.

See?

I'm not saying they are taking tf2 and running with it, their classes could be completely different, but just pointing out a specialization mechanic. Also, no main character was ever boldly pointed out, suggesting a swapping around mechanic.

Heathen
December 14th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Also should i feel bad or happy that i think the ingame CGI for reach looks better than the pre-rendered CGI in the halowars cutscenes?

it doesn't

=sw=warlord
December 14th, 2009, 08:02 PM
it doesn't
i said i "think" and visual quality is purely subjective, but the reach trailer does have something the pre rendered stuff didn't, believ-ability, i really doubt a bunch of elites would stand in one spot while being shot at like in HW but in reach the spartan 3's seem calm like their getting ready for their mission.

Heathen
December 14th, 2009, 08:15 PM
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/HawxF22/ForgeCarter.png
That isn't subjective.

Halo Wars looked way better.

Futzy
December 14th, 2009, 08:19 PM
W2G

t3h m00kz
December 14th, 2009, 08:27 PM
In case you didn't notice he was responding to someone saying Reach looked better than the pre-rendered cutscenes from Halo Wars.

I also have to disagree, Halo Wars' pre-rendered stuff looked awesome.

Heathen
December 14th, 2009, 08:43 PM
W2G

yes, I did notice, but I was saying that halo wars pre rendered stuff looks better than reach's cutscenes.

Warsaw
December 14th, 2009, 09:02 PM
Microsoft Press Release:
http://gamerscoreblog.com/press/archive/2009/12/13/kz123.aspx

SIII it is.

This makes me a sad panda. :smith: Spartan-IIIs don't have the badass factor that the Spartan-IIs had.

Amit
December 14th, 2009, 09:18 PM
This makes me a sad panda. :smith: Spartan-IIIs don't have the badass factor that the Spartan-IIs had.

I think they actually mean Spartan-IIs. There were no Spartan-IIIs on Reach. They were only either Onyx or died in a suicide mission, nothing else.

Warsaw
December 14th, 2009, 09:37 PM
Don't underestimate Bungie's willingness to retcon their material. They do like to pull a George Lucas every now and then.

itszutak
December 14th, 2009, 11:22 PM
Huh, so now elites do have a lower jaw and not just mandibles.

Neat

Kornman00
December 14th, 2009, 11:28 PM
And he doesn't seem the type to do one night stands either.
You never meet a combat savvy military man have you :realsmug:? They need their release too, someone times the one-night kinds are all they have time for, ha.

Manual mentions forge as "the guy you want in the foxhole next to yours but would never introduce to your sister"

.

Warsaw
December 14th, 2009, 11:32 PM
Lol, yeah, forgot about that factor. Also, I've never played Halo Wars, I just have his profile in the Halo Encyclopedia.

Heathen
December 15th, 2009, 12:29 AM
Lol, yeah, forgot about that factor. Also, I've never played Halo Wars, I just have his profile in the Halo Encyclopedia.

Ah, that book is amazing.

ejburke
December 15th, 2009, 12:50 AM
Most Halo players don't know about the different kinds of Spartans, don't care about the different kinds of Spartans, and don't care to know about the different kinds of Spartans. Introducing the not-as-good Spartans as Spartans would just confuse people, which is why I don't believe they are supposed to be III's.

The best way Bungie can attempt to avoid discontinuity with the supposedly canon novels is to avoid their subject matter entirely. Subtle nods are okay, but nobody should have to know any of that crap to enjoy a Halo game.

Daishi
December 15th, 2009, 01:00 AM
The skull-mask guy with the knife is definitely a nod.

t3h m00kz
December 15th, 2009, 03:06 AM
Huh, so now elites do have a lower jaw and not just mandibles.

Neat

That's only if you look at this design as "more canon" than the previous ones :eng101:

=sw=warlord
December 15th, 2009, 07:14 AM
Huh, so now elites do have a lower jaw and not just mandibles.

Neat
Was i the only one to notice this on the arbiter then?
I remember seeing that in halo 2 when you looked how the helmet wrapped around his head.

Warsaw
December 15th, 2009, 02:01 PM
The skull-mask guy with the knife is definitely a nod.

To what? ODST? None of the Spartans had markings on their armour...one was a knife whore, but he didn't mark up his armour.

Kornman00
December 15th, 2009, 03:53 PM
Well, it is after all, Bungie's game and Bungie's story line. I'm just here to play it and have fun, no matter what vOv. Playing as a SIII sounds cool to me. We've been playing as a SII for 3 so far, the ODST was a nice change so I'm interested to see them change it up with the new Spartans (especially if they're able to bring back firefight and with new additions). As long as the core Halo gameplay feel hasn't changed from the previous 3.5 games, it really shouldn't be a problem for any other Halo players.

Warsaw
December 15th, 2009, 04:09 PM
It really doesn't matter who you are playing as in the past 4 games: you always have shields and you always have health (though it isn't always visible and it regenerates in two of them). They are obviously aiming for something a bit different with Reach. Unless they make it a more tactical game, they won't accomplish that by simply saying "hurr, ur a SIII nao!" and then putting the same damn mechanics in again.

In their defence, their mechanics are perfectly fine, and the game does look like it will be fun irregardless of whether or not they keep it the same as the previous games. I'm just a bit disappointed that so far they have chucked the books out the window; hell, I wouldn't even call it a nod to them, I'd call it a steamroller.

Kornman00
December 15th, 2009, 04:16 PM
I'm just a bit disappointed that so far they have chucked the books out the window; hell, I wouldn't even call it a nod to them, I'd call it a steamroller.
I wouldn't jump to such conclusions as them "chucking the books out the window" until you actually played the entire game...in about 10 months :-3

Daishi
December 15th, 2009, 04:26 PM
To what? ODST? None of the Spartans had markings on their armour...one was a knife whore, but he didn't mark up his armour.

Nah, in "The Fall of Reach" I believe, near the end, there was a chapter that started by describing one of the team members that went down to the surface instead of going to destroy the navigational data on a stranded UNSC ship. He twirled knives and shit when he got nervous, and the skull paint may just be an aesthetic choice bungie made.

Kornman00
December 15th, 2009, 04:31 PM
Sounds like we all need to re-read TFoR before anything else comes out so our stories will be straight when trying to call Bungie out on their own story :downs:

Siliconmaster
December 15th, 2009, 04:38 PM
Sounds like we all need to re-read TFoR before anything else comes out so our stories will be straight when trying to call Bungie out on their own story :downs:

Agreed. *Reaches above computer, pulls book off shelf*

Heathen
December 15th, 2009, 04:47 PM
*explains actions with asterisks*

Kornman00
December 15th, 2009, 05:28 PM
*wort wort wort*

annihilation
December 15th, 2009, 06:02 PM
Stop speaking in wortish. I can't understand you.

sdavis117
December 15th, 2009, 06:32 PM
Just repeat it backwards to understand it...

*trow trow trow*

....Maybe that only works verbally.

Rob Oplawar
December 15th, 2009, 07:27 PM
honk honk, blarg!
+1postcount

EX12693
December 15th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Fuck I threw out my blarg-honk dictionary. Weren't enough pictures.

t3h m00kz
December 15th, 2009, 07:36 PM
w0rt chicka blarg honk

Rob Oplawar
December 15th, 2009, 10:12 PM
While I'm sure we can communicate entirely via Red vs Blue quotes from here on out, I'll try to re-rail the thread by remarking that while I wasn't sure what to think about the new game story-wise, the animation was fucking fantastic. The green Spartan loading rounds into the clip made a big impact on me- I couldn't help but picture each of those rounds as a unique named scenery object, thank god for the new engine. Plus the way they interacted with the environment- walking down the stairs was quite lifelike, and putting the hand on the aircraft as he walked by, and turning the helmet in his hands, all very smoothly done. I'd like to see the new technology they use for such seamless interaction.
Also, I liked the way the camera shook as it backed out of the aircraft at the end, as though there were a cameraman stepping out of the aircraft and zooming out to catch a wider shot.
Even if the voice acting and story are meh, we can be sure the visuals will be fantastic.

Phopojijo
December 15th, 2009, 10:13 PM
While I'm sure we can communicate entirely via Red vs Blue quotes from here on out,This doesn't seem physically possible...

ejburke
December 15th, 2009, 10:18 PM
Oh yeah, he does touch the aircraft. I never noticed, because his bizarre J-Lo ass and diarrhea gait had attracted my attention every other time I watched it.

sdavis117
December 15th, 2009, 10:23 PM
and turning the helmet in his hands

The scene where he is in the Warthog putting on his helmet was pre-rendered CG.

Rob Oplawar
December 15th, 2009, 11:01 PM
The scene where he is in the Warthog putting on his helmet was pre-rendered CG.

Really? That's disappointing. I was impressed at the engine's capacity for detail objects in that scene, among other things.

e: are you sure about that? That doesn't seem right to me. Why would that one part be pre-rendered? And if it were pre-rendered, why wouldn't they make it higher-quality? It looks good, but it still looks like something a real-time engine is capable of. How did you come to this information?

ejburke
December 15th, 2009, 11:35 PM
The scene where he is in the Warthog putting on his helmet was pre-rendered CG.NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!

Kornman00
December 16th, 2009, 12:38 AM
The scene where he is in the Warthog putting on his helmet was pre-rendered CG.
lying is a sin

on these forums

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=957303

Dakote
December 16th, 2009, 12:28 PM
You never meet a combat savvy military man have you :realsmug:? They need their release too, someone times the one-night kinds are all they have time for, ha.

Very True, it is all we have time foar; http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22941/108/29/n1171236368_4770.jpg

And the lighting in this game looks immense. I mean the lighting and the covenant blue explosions;http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs39/f/2008/344/c/9/I_jizz_in_my_pants_by_HOLIMOUNT.jpg

Hotrod
December 16th, 2009, 04:55 PM
The scene where he is in the Warthog putting on his helmet was pre-rendered CG.
Looks in-game to me...and Bungie said it was in-game as well.

Saggy
December 16th, 2009, 05:02 PM
The scene where he is in the Warthog putting on his helmet was pre-rendered CG.I'm guessing you heard that from the blog post written by some Indian PS3 Fanboy. I don't think he knows what he is talking about...

Heathen
December 16th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Yeh, I thought the same. Why would they still have the aliasing if it was pre-rendered?

FireDragon04
December 16th, 2009, 06:20 PM
Yeah its pretty obvious its in game because the conventional visible artefacts are still visible, like Aliasing. I do think they've done a great job at making it look like a next-gen halo game should.

My main worry is that everyone (even official sources) are saying that these characters (or at least the long wolf) are SIII's. However, Lone Wolf's helmet looks strikingly like that of one of grey teams Spartans (which where SII's)

Check it out:

The Cole Protocol Cover:
Their MJOLNIR Mk. IV armour was colored gray. Hmmm just like Lone Wolf’s.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/8/8f/Halocole-Cropped.png

Halo Reach Trailer Screenshot:
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/vga/Bungie_REACH_1280x720.jpg

Even more so here:
http://i45.tinypic.com/2vvnqti.jpg

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, I’m been a lazy British guy tonight.

I now do have very high hopes for Halo REACH so… next I would like some gameplay… kthxbi.

Delta4907
December 16th, 2009, 08:22 PM
That's a good theory, but incase you didn't see this image I posted a page or two back:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/e/e0/Gallery_6889_853_280617.jpg
It's Bungie's redux of the Mark V armor, and it's what I think the spartans (or at least a few of them) are based off of.

Advancebo
December 16th, 2009, 08:33 PM
Mark III

Heathen
December 16th, 2009, 08:34 PM
Whats so bad about them being SIII's?

FRain
December 16th, 2009, 09:00 PM
Mark III

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/MJOLNIR_Powered_Assault_Armor#Mark_III_Prototype_E xoskeleton


The next prototype, the Mark III, incorporated a wireless power transmitter and receiver so that power could be transmitted directly to it, much like the Orbital Defense Platforms used to defend UNSC colonies. This design was quickly rejected for two reasons: first the armor still had a limited operational range as it had to remain within range of a bulky, immobile generator, and second, if the generator was to be knocked out it would result in the incapacitation of the suit and leave its user locked inside and helpless against enemy attacks. In the end, all of the first three prototypes had one thing in common: They were impractical on the battlefield, as large exoskeleton units did not have a substantial use in any form of combat.

.Wolf™
December 17th, 2009, 01:55 PM
UNSC are made of secrets. Which makes me think these are Second generation SII´s. Mendez leaves the original SII´s to train the second generation. The project get closed down(as mentioned in one of the books), because of the costs, and not enough candidates. Maybe UNSC kept it going. That or they are just a team of Spartan II and III´s. I doubt the main character is a part of the gray team. But who knows.

Warsaw
December 17th, 2009, 06:16 PM
The more I look at the Reach Spartans, the more I don't like them. =|

t3h m00kz
December 17th, 2009, 06:50 PM
Really? That's disappointing. I was impressed at the engine's capacity for detail objects in that scene, among other things.

e: are you sure about that? That doesn't seem right to me. Why would that one part be pre-rendered? And if it were pre-rendered, why wouldn't they make it higher-quality? It looks good, but it still looks like something a real-time engine is capable of. How did you come to this information?

Honestly I don't think the movie was "real time." They're probably doing what they did with the Halo 3 "This is the way the world ends" trailer. Cramming as much detail as possible in. I mean hell they did that with the Halo 2 E32003 show too, the Halo 2 engine was shown to have real-time self-shadowing and all sorts of fancy shit that didn't make it into the final game.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have some sort of software to render it at a higher resolution within the game engine. I mean, they have that feature for screenshots, I'm sure the devs would be able to do something similar with the movies. Like, a series of high-res screenshots being rendered into a movie. It gives them a chance to show people what the engine is like.

It's definitely the game engine, but does that mean it's not "pre-rendered"?

Warsaw
December 17th, 2009, 07:07 PM
They re-wrote the Halo 2 engine after the E32003 demo, hth. They probably didn't have time to get all the sparklies back in due to Microsoft rushing Halo 2 out the door.

Also, Microsoft lifted the 720p maximum resolution limit on the XBOX 360. Developers are now free to have the games' textures at 1080p.

ejburke
December 17th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Is everybody starting to realize that the Halo fiction is swiss cheese and attempts to resolve this information with the previous "canon" will only end tragically, with a brain hemorrhage or stroke? You might as well devote your time to figuring out the Zelda timeline or grow a tail and chase it.

I mean, shit. In Halo 1, the ring activations doesn't kill the Flood and in Halo 3 it does. If you can't keep something that simple straight, then what hope is there?

Better luck with the next IP, Bungie.

=sw=warlord
December 17th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Is everybody starting to realize that the Halo fiction is swiss cheese and attempts to resolve this information with the previous "canon" will only end tragically, with a brain hemorrhage or stroke? You might as well devote your time to figuring out the Zelda timeline or grow a tail and chase it.

I mean, shit. In Halo 1, the ring activations doesn't kill the Flood and in Halo 3 it does. If you can't keep something that simple straight, then what hope is there?

Better luck with the next IP, Bungie.
The halo rings kill sentient life of certain biomass, meaning those little infection forms would probably survive but in halo 3 you destroy both the ring and the ark meaning everything would die.

Warsaw
December 17th, 2009, 07:15 PM
Not just sufficient biomass, but sufficient intelligence as well. The Flood collects that intelligence as well as the calcium deposits in order to create a Gravemind. To be honest though, I'd prefer if they had left the Flood as a mindless swarm of parasites...they are scarier that way.

k4is3rxkh40s
December 17th, 2009, 07:17 PM
I mean, shit. In Halo 1, the ring activations doesn't kill the Flood and in Halo 3 it does. If you can't keep something that simple straight, then what hope is there?

Better luck with the next IP, Bungie.

In the original, there was no Gravemind entity and I believe in 3 it was /the/ Gravemind that controlled most/all flood forces who was killed. Don't quote me on it, I don't remember exactly. Also; any flood on other rings are probably alive still.

ShadowSpartan
December 17th, 2009, 07:17 PM
They re-wrote the Halo 2 engine after the E32003 demo, hth.
Bungie did not rewrite the engine after that demo. Since the game was released in 2004, that would give them a little over a year to completely rewrite an engine that had been in progress for years. That doesn't seem possible, and highly unlikely. Sure they rewrote parts of the engine, but not the whole thing. Get your facts straight.

ejburke
December 17th, 2009, 07:18 PM
Except that Gravemind managed to survive the first activation while on Delta Halo. Don't even get me started on the "biomass" and "sentience" floodification requirements. Arbitrary BS.

k4is3rxkh40s
December 17th, 2009, 07:23 PM
Except that Gravemind managed to survive the first activation while on Delta Halo. Don't even get me started on the "biomass" and "sentience" floodification requirements. Arbitrary BS.

Each individual ring only has a limited activation area. If one single ring could destroy all of the flood, then why would they build 7 AND the Ark?

=sw=warlord
December 17th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Except that Gravemind managed to survive the first activation while on Delta Halo. Don't even get me started on the "biomass" and "sentience" floodification requirements. Arbitrary BS.
How is it arbitary?
Shadowspartan, in one of the documentaries either on the halo 3LE or halo 2LE they mention about having to rewrite alot of stuff because they felt they got back from E3 with less than they left with in the first place.
Wherther that means rewriting the engine or just the storyline or what im not sure off.

sdavis117
December 17th, 2009, 07:33 PM
Doesn't matter if the Halos were designed to destroy the Flood themselves, the ring and the Ark blew up. Flood died either way.

thehoodedsmack
December 17th, 2009, 07:38 PM
Doesn't matter if the Halos were designed to destroy the Flood themselves, the ring and the Ark blew up. Flood died either way.

Wouldn't there be Flood storages on the other five rings?

sdavis117
December 17th, 2009, 07:44 PM
Wouldn't there be Flood storages on the other five rings?

Yeah, but they were of no threat. They're just there minding their own business (I just used they're, their, and there in the same sentence, I am officially awesome) like they have been doing for the last tens of thousands of years. Only the flood from Delta Halo were an immediate threat. Most likely the UNSC nova-bombed the other Halos.

ejburke
December 17th, 2009, 08:17 PM
Each individual ring only has a limited activation area. If one single ring could destroy all of the flood, then why would they build 7 AND the Ark?ALL the rings were activated 100,000 years ago. They're all supposed to fire in quasi unison. You activate one and the others "follow suit". Gravemind saw it all happen and lived to tell the tale. There's no reason to think he could have formed after the event. The Covenant had only just arrived at the installation.
How is it arbitary?
Our sentience can be traced to a small part of our brains, which is a common, if less developed feature of other higher mammal species. It's just a cluster of neurons that is configured in a specific way to perform a function. The material is no different from other parts of our brain and when we die, the neurons die, the configuration is lost, and it all becomes undifferentiated meat. So, biologically, how could they possibly need their prey to be sentient. And if you could somehow explain that, then you can't explain how it's okay for their food to be dead. A corpse, as I explained, is certainly not sentient.

As for Calcium, it's something that every animal needs. Millions of species on this planet alone and not one of them has any problem obtaining and storing it. So, the Flood, a super-organism that can overtake completely alien species at an absurdly rapid pace (the speed of the floodification process would probably generate enough heat to liquify the host) has to be picky because of CALCIUM? I don't buy it.

It's all arbitrary, because Bungie wanted to make a threat that was specific to intelligent life and they made up shit about sentience and calcium to achieve that goal. The Flood could never exist as described in the fiction.

Then again, neither could a lot of things which I let slide (FTL travel). The Flood fiction just encroaches on territory that we know too much about.

FRain
December 17th, 2009, 08:20 PM
Lone Wolf - Halo: Reach Soundtrack (http://www.bungie.net/images/games/reach/audio/Lone%20Wolf.mp3)

ejburke
December 17th, 2009, 08:20 PM
Doesn't matter if the Halos were designed to destroy the Flood themselves, the ring and the Ark blew up. Flood died either way.Guilty Spark thought activating the ring to counter the local infestation was a good idea.

Guilty Spark thought DESTROYING the ring and the Ark was a BAD idea.

There you go.

Intent.

Heathen
December 17th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Bungie did not rewrite the engine after that demo. Since the game was released in 2004, that would give them a little over a year to completely rewrite an engine that had been in progress for years. That doesn't seem possible, and highly unlikely. Sure they rewrote parts of the engine, but not the whole thing. Get your facts straight.

:raise: I dont see the word "whole" in his post.

Warsaw
December 17th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Bungie did not rewrite the engine after that demo. Since the game was released in 2004, that would give them a little over a year to completely rewrite an engine that had been in progress for years. That doesn't seem possible, and highly unlikely. Sure they rewrote parts of the engine, but not the whole thing. Get your facts straight.

Still mad that I debunked your perception of the Halo universe? :downs:

There was an article on the old bungie.net where they talked about the Halo 2 engine. In it, they said they basically had to scrap a majority of the original Halo 2 engine that they used for the E3 2003 demo and make it again because the original had become too bloated. The E3 2004 demo was the first we saw of that new engine and is why everything looked so different. That's also why they couldn't finish the game the way they intended and why we got a cliffhanger ending. So, yes, they did rewrite it. They reused some of the old code, but they still started over. That's not to say they scrapped the entire game; models, textures, sounds, scripts, etc. were all probably kept for the most part.

@ejburke: The Gravemind you encounter in the Halo games is not the same one that attacked the Forerunner 100,000 years ago. The Flood have a trait that lets a Gravemind recall all the events of its predecessor. However, we don't know if this precludes the simultaneous existence of multiple Graveminds. This is all coming from the Halo Encyclopedia, by the way.

ShadowSpartan
December 17th, 2009, 09:57 PM
:raise: I dont see the word "whole" in his post.
In his later post he said "majority". Close enough don't you think? If they did indeed rewrite the entire engine, which I doubt they did, then they might as well have started from scratch.


Still mad that I debunked your perception of the Halo universe? :downs:
Hardly.


There was an article on the old bungie.net where they talked about the Halo 2 engine. In it, they said they basically had to scrap a majority of the original Halo 2 engine that they used for the E3 2003 demo and make it again because the original had become too bloated.
Go and find the article then, every article is still on Bungie.net so you can't use an excuse of "it was on the old bnet". Saying, "said they basically", is very skeptical and I think you are "recalling" incorrectly. How in the hell could they have rewrote the majority of an engine that had been in development for over 2 years already, in a little over a year? I don't believe that they did.

Warsaw
December 17th, 2009, 10:08 PM
Or you could find it yourself since you are the one in doubt. There's the Halo 2 Collector's Edition DVD and the Bungie archives; knock yourself out. I'm going to warn you though, half of the links in the old Bungie Weekly Updates are broken.

And yeah, I did debunk your ignorance on Cortana and Halsey...with proof from the two pertinent sources. Check your own profile. Actually there was more, but I had already hit the character limit and didn't think it required any more.

Heathen
December 17th, 2009, 10:25 PM
In his later post he said "majority". Close enough don't you think?

No.

A majority of Americans have STD's. Not all Americans have STD's.

Ki11a_FTW
December 17th, 2009, 11:18 PM
^^

word :smugsome:

ejburke
December 17th, 2009, 11:23 PM
@ejburke: The Gravemind you encounter in the Halo games is not the same one that attacked the Forerunner 100,000 years ago. The Flood have a trait that lets a Gravemind recall all the events of its predecessor. However, we don't know if this precludes the simultaneous existence of multiple Graveminds. This is all coming from the Halo Encyclopedia, by the way.If he's not the same Gravemind, then it begs the question where he came from. Where did the Flood find enough food on Delta Halo, post Halopocalypse, to generate a new one? The humans and Covenant had only just arrived during the events of Halo 2.

Bungie pretty clearly led the player to believe that he was a remnant of the war with the Forerunner. Given Cortana's line in Halo 1, "Halo doesn't kill the Flood, it kills their food." -- it made perfect sense that he would have survived. Then Halo 3 has to come in and confuse everyone by demonstrating that Halo does indeed kill the Flood.

Now it's a convoluted mess, with retcon on top of retcon being used to explain things that didn't need to be explained if only they had their shit straight all along.

All I'm really getting at is that the story could have made much more sense than it does, but for sheer carelessness. You can patch a boat with duck tape, but it's a better idea to avoid punching holes in it in the first place.

Warsaw
December 17th, 2009, 11:27 PM
Hell, the story could have also been better than it is, but it isn't. I just look the other way and play the games for fun now. To me, the original Halo had the only story worth digging into.

Kornman00
December 18th, 2009, 12:16 AM
Halo 2 LE disc they talked about how when they came back from the E3 demo that they really didn't have a real plan. They spent a majority of their time preparing that demo (along with some of the graphical features in it) only to come back and figure out that they needed to start over on some of their story and game feature set (dropping or not using them; not redoing the entire fucking engine who ever said that).

That's all the E3 demo actually was...an engine demo.

Also, after Halo 2 the rings were put on "standby" due to mid-sequence shutdown...hence the need to go to the Ark.

.Wolf™
December 18th, 2009, 05:49 AM
If he's not the same Gravemind, then it begs the question where he came from. Where did the Flood find enough food on Delta Halo, post Halopocalypse, to generate a new one? The humans and Covenant had only just arrived during the events of Halo 2.

Bungie pretty clearly led the player to believe that he was a remnant of the war with the Forerunner. Given Cortana's line in Halo 1, "Halo doesn't kill the Flood, it kills their food." -- it made perfect sense that he would have survived. Then Halo 3 has to come in and confuse everyone by demonstrating that Halo does indeed kill the Flood.
Simple answer. The flood went into stasis. Which also explains why there already are a large number of them at Delta Halo. Also the Flood at Delta Halo had been out of stasis a while, since the AI there had a red glow(Possibly the defensive or Anti flood state?) I dont think the gravemind grew by eating food.

t3h m00kz
December 18th, 2009, 06:13 AM
It's speculated that red AI signifies rampancy

=sw=warlord
December 18th, 2009, 07:05 AM
If he's not the same Gravemind, then it begs the question where he came from. Where did the Flood find enough food on Delta Halo, post Halopocalypse, to generate a new one? The humans and Covenant had only just arrived during the events of Halo 2.
It's possible the Gravemind came from somewhere else after finding out about the flood forerunner war, the flood were afterall extragalactic.

Bungie pretty clearly led the player to believe that he was a remnant of the war with the Forerunner. Given Cortana's line in Halo 1, "Halo doesn't kill the Flood, it kills their food." -- it made perfect sense that he would have survived. Then Halo 3 has to come in and confuse everyone by demonstrating that Halo does indeed kill the Flood.
The flood infect hosts, the halo's would kill the host's but not the infection spores themselves leaving the infection stuck in a dead host, much like Ebola, that virus kills its host so fast it cannot spread itself and yet it is possibly the most deadly virus on earth.



.
Oh and kornman, Joe said in the halo 2 LE at one point they felt like they had gotten back from E3 2003 with less than they had originaly hoped and that it required alot of rethinking.
There's an awful lot of differences in terms of the engine and not just because it was beta stage.
Im asuming you would know more on this though as last i heard, you had access to a copy of the beta which had the ATV.

.Wolf™
December 18th, 2009, 07:06 AM
It's speculated that red AI signifies rampancy
2401 Penitent Tangent red colour could also be his default colour. Like Guilty Sparks is blue.

=sw=warlord
December 18th, 2009, 07:08 AM
2401 Penitent Tangent red colour could also be his default colour. Like Guilty Sparks is blue.
I always thought the monitors default was blue but when they thought there was danger to the installation they turned red, pertinent tangent was captured by the gravemind which would pose a huge threat and guilty spark turned red after realising the humans want to blow both the ring and the ark up.

t3h m00kz
December 18th, 2009, 07:31 AM
I believe Guilty Spark turned red upon betraying the chief at the end of Halo 3. Correct me if I'm wrong.

.Wolf™
December 18th, 2009, 08:48 AM
Defensive state?

Martini-562
December 18th, 2009, 09:01 AM
Doesn't Spark also turn red for a moment in floodgate when he blasts the flood forms that appear behind the chief? So, the red glow could be just his defensive state.

.Wolf™
December 18th, 2009, 09:12 AM
Also mightve been mentioned

After the graduation of the first class of SPARTAN-IIs in 2525, Dr. Halsey began planning for the next wave of Spartans; her efforts, however, ran into problems. There were too few candidates that were in sync with her age restriction protocol and a majority of her funding was going towards MJOLNIR maintenance and construction; leaving little room for continued training efforts. By 2531, the majority of her funds had been diverted and she was forced to postpone the effort indefinitely.[4] (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program#cite_note-3)
Around six years later, however, it seems that enough candidates within the right age were numerous enough to begin a second class. Six year old Yasmine Zaman (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Yasmine_Zaman) was abducted and replaced by a Flashclone just like the Class-Is, and taught in a similar way. She however, died during augmentations.
Another girl, Janissary James (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Janissary_James), was selected as a suitable candidate for training. However, her father, an ORION Project member known now as "James James (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/James_James)", killed the to-be kidnapper.[5] (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program#cite_note-4)


I still believe Halo:Reach Spartans are Second generation Spartan-II´s.

Ki11a_FTW
December 18th, 2009, 02:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/SnaxyVideos#p/u

if anyone is curious, theres about 1 hour of footage of bungie's development on halo 2 from start to end.

Delta4907
December 18th, 2009, 03:49 PM
Then Halo 3 has to come in and confuse everyone by demonstrating that Halo does indeed kill the Flood.

Now it's a convoluted mess, with retcon on top of retcon being used to explain things that didn't need to be explained if only they had their shit straight all along.
The firing replacement ring for Installation 04 wasn't what killed the Flood. It was the resulting explosion from the huge amount of energy that ripped it apart, completely destroying itself and as Cortana states, "did a number on the ark". In a way, it was the same way the Flood on the original Installation 04 perished, from the rings destruction.

teh lag
December 18th, 2009, 03:51 PM
The firing replacement ring for Installation 04 wasn't what killed the Flood. It was the resulting explosion from the huge amount of energy that ripped it apart, completely destroying itself and as Cortana states, "did a number on the ark". In a way, it was the same way the Flood on the original Installation 04 perished, from the rings destruction.


Guilty Spark thought activating the ring to counter the local infestation was a good idea.

Guilty Spark thought DESTROYING the ring and the Ark was a BAD idea.

There you go.

Intent.

Somehow 343 thought that activating Halo would stop the Flood there, even though it's been pretty much hammered into us that Halo only kills the Flood's food and makes them burn themselves out when they run out of hosts.

ejburke
December 18th, 2009, 03:56 PM
It's possible the Gravemind came from somewhere else after finding out about the flood forerunner war, the flood were afterall extragalactic."I am a monument to all your sins."

Sure doesn't sound extra-galactic. Sounds like the Forerunner were in some way responsible for his existence. Like there was a lesson to be learned from the past. But no such revelations of divine retribution were to be had. What we got had far less resonance.

There were so many memorable lines throughout the series that hinted at one thing, but turned out to be dead-ends or hanging threads. That's just another in a long line of examples.


The flood infect hosts, the halo's would kill the host's but not the infection spores themselves leaving the infection stuck in a dead host, much like Ebola, that virus kills its host so fast it cannot spread itself and yet it is possibly the most deadly virus on earth.As far as I know, the Flood is characterized by an undifferentiated "supercell" that can be arranged to perform various biological tasks. So, the infection forms are just blobs of Flood supercells and the hosts have their DNA rewritten to convert them into larger blobs of Flood supercells. "No human life signs detected; he's one of them."

A Flood is a Flood is a Flood. Or at least there's no reasonable explanation that they shouldn't be. All or nothing is a much more elegant solution than this crappy, convoluted mess of an explanation that has been retconned into oblivion.

Either the Halo activation spares Flood supercells or it destroys them. There's no logical way it can spare infection forms, while taking out the larger ones.

By the way, does anyone know what the rings actually do to their victims? Does the signal vaporize them or does it just drop them dead, in which case the Flood would have no problem ravaging their corpses.

Delta4907
December 18th, 2009, 04:05 PM
Hmm, just realized that, I didn't really think about what he said until now. My only thought about it is that a Halo's pulse kills off infected flood forms, but not the infection or pure forms (or Gravemind, if there is one). This would've at least slowed the Flood's advances, but not completely destroy them.

=sw=warlord
December 18th, 2009, 04:15 PM
"I am a monument to all your sins."

Sure doesn't sound extra-galactic. Sounds like the Forerunner were in some way responsible for his existence. Like there was a lesson to be learned from the past. But no such revelations of divine retribution were to be had. What we got had far less resonance.

There were so many memorable lines throughout the series that hinted at one thing, but turned out to be dead-ends or hanging threads. That's just another in a long line of examples.

As far as I know, the Flood is characterized by an undifferentiated "supercell" that can be arranged to perform various biological tasks. So, the infection forms are just blobs of Flood supercells and the hosts have their DNA rewritten to convert them into larger blobs of Flood supercells. "No human life signs detected; he's one of them."

A Flood is a Flood is a Flood. Or at least there's no reasonable explanation that they shouldn't be. All or nothing is a much more elegant solution than this crappy, convoluted mess of an explanation that has been retconned into oblivion.

Either the Halo activation spares Flood supercells or it destroys them. There's no logical way it can spare infection forms, while taking out the larger ones.

By the way, does anyone know what the rings actually do to their victims? Does the signal vaporize them or does it just drop them dead, in which case the Flood would have no problem ravaging their corpses.
I wouldn't be too suprised if the halo's sent out some kind of gamma ray like a quasar from a white drawf but on a smaller level, it would be enough to fry anyone in contact but some life forms which are more delicate to radiation could possibly survive.
We may never know what the halo's really did for all we know it could have sent out some sort of EM pulse that messed up the signals in your brain which would affect animal life but not plant or micro bacterial life.
Like i said, i think the flood could be closer resembled to Ebola.
"i am a monument to all your sins" could be to do with how in the flood there are no casts, no creed, no race and that everyone is working towards a common goal unlike humans and the covenant.

ejburke
December 18th, 2009, 05:43 PM
Given that simultaneity is relative, especially over larger than solar distances, there's really no way to zap everything in the galaxy at once. Each Halo installation is far enough away from the others that, depending on your intertial frame, one might fire weeks or months before or after the other, giving you plenty of opportunity to avoid each individual pulse, provided that you had a fast enough space ship and the math skills to chart a course that takes advantage of the principles of special relativity. Not to mention, if your ship was capable of faster-than-light travel, you essentially have a time machine and REALLY don't have to worry about the Halo pulse.

But I'll let that slide.

Dwood
December 18th, 2009, 05:58 PM
Somehow 343 thought that activating Halo would stop the Flood there, even though it's been pretty much hammered into us that Halo only kills the Flood's food and makes them burn themselves out when they run out of hosts.

Yeah... That's probably because someone at bungie probably realized that the Halo killing only the flood's food was either a bad plot device or too annoying to work with so they ignored it all together..?

Terry
December 18th, 2009, 06:11 PM
Is everybody starting to realize that the Halo fiction is swiss cheese and attempts to resolve this information with the previous "canon" will only end tragically, with a brain hemorrhage or stroke? You might as well devote your time to figuring out the Zelda timeline or grow a tail and chase it.

I mean, shit. In Halo 1, the ring activations doesn't kill the Flood and in Halo 3 it does. If you can't keep something that simple straight, then what hope is there?

Better luck with the next IP, Bungie.

Great comprehension skills.

=sw=warlord
December 18th, 2009, 06:42 PM
Given that simultaneity is relative, especially over larger than solar distances, there's really no way to zap everything in the galaxy at once. Each Halo installation is far enough away from the others that, depending on your intertial frame, one might fire weeks or months before or after the other, giving you plenty of opportunity to avoid each individual pulse, provided that you had a fast enough space ship and the math skills to chart a course that takes advantage of the principles of special relativity. Not to mention, if your ship was capable of faster-than-light travel, you essentially have a time machine and REALLY don't have to worry about the Halo pulse.

But I'll let that slide.
Two words.
Slip Space.