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View Full Version : [SC2] New zerg strat i'm working on.



Bodzilla
March 14th, 2011, 09:38 AM
Being an avid zerg player, and a massive cry whore over the bullshit easyness of some of the other races play style's i've often found myself batting my head against the wall because of simple mistakes, loosing to them and not being able to punish the other races for it.

Looking over at zerg, they have a number of benefits, such as cheap fast units, low supply , fast production ect.
but they've always had some GLARING problems which in many peoples opinions cause them to acheive less then they deserve.

the 3 major things that come to mind is this,
Gas, you need more, constantly.
Cost efficiency, one of the big things about zerg is always having to have an extra expansion, simply because you need the income to support your much weaker army to stay even.
higher Macro mechanics causing you to be less focussed on battles, and more on larvae injects, because if you miss them your dead.

so i set about devising something to counter it, and to help my zvz as well.
a one size build to make it easier for me to survive, do damage and worry more on battles.

righto, now the first thing is, a 10 pool.
"but thats a major economy rush... blah blah"
no it's not.
1. with a 10 pool it allows you to be aggressive and punish zerg 14 gass 14 pools in close positions, by getting to their base before lings, queens, or spines can pop, taking all but 3 of your drones allows you to try to get up a spine and do massive damage to their economy, sometimes you'll be able to end it there, other times you dont, just know when to fall back with the drones and leave the lings to tank for you while you continue back to your base with a better econ.

2. If you dont want to rush or it's not close positions fine, drone till 12 and start getting queens as soon as possible, continue making queens till you have about 5-6 of them, while droning up and spreading creep like a madman, they also allow you to hold off ANY quick drops, voids, shees ect and will continue to be useful through the game.
if they push you throw down some spines and transfuse's and you'll hold off anything they throw at you, if it's a zerg going for a baneling speed rush, block the ramp with your queens and use transfuse's to cripple the attack and your good to continue.

3. Next thing you wanna get a reasonably fast baneling nest, and ling speed as well as bain speed and all those other essential upgrades, just get them when you think you can.

4. At about 30 drones you want to start your natural, tech to lair and take your third gas. next get a double evo and just pump upgrades as fast as you can, while still going for as many drones as you can, hold off aggression continue spreading creep and you should have INSANE map vision by now giving you ample time to prepare.

5. take your 4th gas and at around 50-60 drones stop making them entirely and switch to ling production, get 2/2 as soon as you can and then take a third and throw down infestor pit, because your going to hive tech. continue with lings when you can, dump all excess gass into banes.

6. Get that hive up and your third base. Get an ultra den, armor adrenal glands 3/3 and continue to build lings and banes
and pepper your army with a hand full of ultras. It's important to not over commit to ultras get a few more drones and gas if you feel you need it and throw down a spire for some insurance from a tech switch.

7. using your vision and creep spread, surround and destroy any ground army they send at you.



now the reasons why this works,
with terrans they do insane damage, and with seige's bunkers, PF's and thors they're hard to attack into, because your army just doesnt last that long.
P's are pretty similar with the death ball blob, where time after time engaging it meant instant death and hardly any damage against them.
and the reason is this, zergs units are short ranged weak units that arnt surviving long enough to do the damage, or if it's melee, hit the front line with the lings banes and ultras and the ranged units such as roached and hydras where actually blocking your melee units from engaging properly unless you had good flanking on their army.
no matter their army zergs upgrades benefit them more then any other, because it allows you to hit their front line properly and fastly so your banes ling and ultras come into their own and do their potential.

their army is only as good as the length of time it's alive to do damage.
They're costly, slow and hard to replace, but your banes do that much damage it doesnt matter. you can replace yours relatively quickly and cheaply.

you have map vision, loads of creep spread so surround work better and your army is having a a field day.
your queens help you against any form of early or late game harassment and force them into longer games.

your army's cost efficient and replaceable, your supply is lower, you have less to worry about macro wise because you only need your 3 hatch's to pull this off.

your able to engage armies directly.


now my experience with this.
i've been able to successfully shut down 4 gates, 6 pools, 3rax, siege tank rines, attack into PF and win, destroy Mech, bio and the protoss death ball.
It's something else when you engage a protoss death ball with 120 supply vs their 150
and you crush through it instantly.
if they have voids your queens can hold them off if they continue to push, and the only thing they have to fire on is ultras, which take a long time to die, and manage to get your army to the front lines by stomping forcefields. your army lasts long enough to do the incredible damage banes are capable of while the ling surrounds disable retreat.

now credit for the strat.
a while back i saw a thread about people crunching the numbers on upgrades, carapace vs attack for mutas, and there was a discussion about how mass upgrades could help zergs efficiency but detract from the size of the muta flock.
i also watch alot of Day9 and have seen his dailys on mass queen and the beauty of the insane creep spread, army size benefits, the benefits of avoiding multiple tech routes.... and a heap of other stuff.
and another thread on TL about a different approach to using ultras, rather then reinforce because of the times, using them to engage armies directly.

I'm also an avid Ultra man, who decided for luls to go for ultra fast ultra drops and see how far i could get in 4v4, and after reaching diamond easily in 4v4 i decided to think about it some more, and see if anything from it could be transferred into 1v1. I've been hoping for quite sometime that Day[9] would actually do a funday monday where the restrictions where the zerg couldn't attack until he had ultras and a third base, but seeing as i havn't seen that coming any time soon i decided to try it out for myself.

well i hope you guys have enjoyed this, if you talk to me about it and ask questions i'll be able to go into more detail, and the reasonings behind it, because this is just a short preview for it.

Note: with the 1.3 patch and the change in infestors role in zerg having 2 or 3 at your base's will allow you to continue this strat and using the new insane DPS shut down any major tech switch, or late game drop play.

cheers bodzilla

Phopojijo
March 14th, 2011, 03:29 PM
I was actually thinking of doing a program to simulate resource collection (including pulling SCVs, Probes, and Drones to build and collect gas and go back to minerals and whatnot) and blow through literally every possible build order (until the next produced unit would exceed 200/200 -- or you reach like 100 buildings before 200/200 which would mean that the buildorder is completely useless) building an ever-larger database back-end of just a bunch of build orders. Then you'd use the frontend to search the database based on parameters you desire. (Time to maxed army, army value over time, how quick you can rebuild armies, strength of your economy, how balanced your resource spending was, etc.)

I named that concept: "Soviet Rusher" (Logo of a Protoss Emblem sickle with a stimpack hammer)

... In Soviet Rusher -- Build Order Find You!

The idea would be that those crazy build orders would be less "Holy crap you can do that?" and more "Huh, I should try that".

Bodzilla
March 14th, 2011, 09:10 PM
well there already has to be a program out there that allows that.

i was thinking about it the other day, i just dont have the know how to actually do it.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20128407/zerg+strat+5+terran.zip


heres a bunch of replays on it. i didnt only choose where i won, just remember that it's only an over arching idea atm and i'm still fleshing out the fine details.
in the loss's you can see where i screwed up and adjust accordingly.

n00b1n8R
March 16th, 2011, 04:58 AM
I told you about the queens man
I told you dog!

Not at home so I haven't had the chance to check your replays (will do that tommorow) but this sounds pretty cool. I'm actually surprised at how late you stay 1base. How's it affecting your win/loss? (and you're plat right?)

Bodzilla
March 16th, 2011, 06:56 AM
no but MASS queen is still horseshit.

Cortexian
March 16th, 2011, 06:53 PM
hi im bronze what are you guys talking about?

n00b1n8R
March 16th, 2011, 07:20 PM
W/L: How is it affected? (don't make me log onto b.net to check Mr!)


hi im bronze what are you guys talking about?
It involves spawning more overlords and making appropriate tech choices. Sorry buddy :saddowns:

Cortexian
March 16th, 2011, 07:44 PM
i lose every game i play in bronze, i only play with friends occasionally for fun

welp~

Bodzilla
March 16th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Cant really tell the W/L change, i was away for a few weeks anyway, and the strat is still being ironed out,
i dont really have a build order for it yet so it's still an idea i'm fleshing out.

to hazard a guess i'd say i'm up at around 60%

Bodzilla
March 17th, 2011, 10:34 PM
anyone been trying this?

Dwood
March 18th, 2011, 03:37 AM
anyone been trying this?

Check the best pictures you've seen thread.

Bodzilla
March 20th, 2011, 08:07 AM
Wanna listen to some stats?
Z v T

The time is 20:35

supply:
Mine: 163
His: 195


worker count:
Mine: 50
His: 61


upgrades:
Mine: 3/3 melee, Carapace
His: 1/1 Attack, Armor


Base number:
Mine: 3
His: 5 (1 gold)


Army composition:
Mine: 115 Lings, 56 banes, 3 ultras, 5 queens (queens not in battle)
His: 8 Zealots, 3 immortals, 2 voids, 3 collossus, 30 Stalkers, 11 sentry's


LEERRROOOYYY JJJEEENNNKKKIIINNNSSSSS
The time is 21:00


supply:
Mine: 115
His: 79


Base number:
Mine: 3 Blue
His: 4 blue


Army composition:
Mine: 49 drones, 27 lings, 2 ultras, 1 baneling
His: 63 probes 2 voidrays

resources lost:
Mine: 5725
His: 10850



Oh baby baby.

Rainbow Dash
March 20th, 2011, 10:20 AM
just raped bod 3 times in a row when he used this build :3

one time with a mothership rush, once with fast expand fast weapons, and 3gate into 5gate

then with a 4gate.

Bodzilla
March 20th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Well your better then me, i'm playing at 1am when i'm tired and i'm making huge mistakes in the build.

Plus you know exactly what i'm doing.
lol.

Bodzilla
March 20th, 2011, 10:16 PM
build order for dummies

11 over pool (extractor trick)
10 OL
11 drone (extractor trick)
14 queen. (first queen will pop by 2:30
16 Extractor
17 OL
18 Queen
22 OL
22 Metabolic boost
22 Queen
26 ane nes
25 hatch
25 lair
26 extractor.

this will take you to about 5:10, 5:20 in game if you dont have to build any spines, or lings because they're not pressuring you.
Build order is subject to change if they are attacking you but thats the overall jist of it.


that will take you into the game a couple mins, and seems pretty solid.

you'll have 3 queens when you start your lair and your nat.

if they're 4 gating or rushing, just throw down some spines and use transfuse to hold with ling back up.

Amit
March 20th, 2011, 10:19 PM
Shit haven't played Zerg in forever, or SC2 for that matter. Any replays on how this works?

Bodzilla
March 21st, 2011, 12:08 AM
first post.

Phopojijo
March 22nd, 2011, 10:51 PM
Wanna listen to some stats?
Z v T <------

The time is 20:35

supply:
Mine: 163
His: 195


worker count:
Mine: 50
His: 61


upgrades:
Mine: 3/3 melee, Carapace
His: 1/1 Attack, Armor


Base number:
Mine: 3
His: 5 (1 gold)


Army composition:
Mine: 115 Lings, 56 banes, 3 ultras, 5 queens (queens not in battle)
His: 8 Zealots, 3 immortals, 2 voids, 3 collossus, 30 Stalkers, 11 sentry's <-----


LEERRROOOYYY JJJEEENNNKKKIIINNNSSSSS
The time is 21:00


supply:
Mine: 115
His: 79


Base number:
Mine: 3 Blue
His: 4 blue


Army composition:
Mine: 49 drones, 27 lings, 2 ultras, 1 baneling
His: 63 probes 2 voidrays

resources lost:
Mine: 5725
His: 10850



Oh baby baby.Cheating bastard... got "8 Zealots, 3 immortals, 2 voids, 3 collossus, 30 Stalkers, 11 sentry's" in Z v T :p