The Controversy of Ron Paul?

[DarkHalo003]

This is an article I came across recently. Everything in it regards the negative aspects of Ron Paul. If these hold true, I have no clue who to vote for anymore. What does Modacity have to say?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/04/10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-paul/

[=sw=warlord]

WELP.
Obama is looking like a even better choice for this election.
So then, who do you want to vote for?
A guy who tried to improve your health care system and ordered the closure of gitmo, or do you want to vote for the guy calling your current president a Nigger or maybe you want Ron Paul who may as well be a aged version of Hitler given the chance.

[Limited]

As you grow older you will realise that there never is that one candidate who is a shining example of perfection. You simply look for the person who has the least worst views on topics.

[Rainbow Dash]

Don't participate.

All the candidates are a huge joke. The only way you're going to see some meaningful change is if you stop supporting the electoral system which just provides the illusion of choice.

hYIC0eZYEtI

Get out and protest.

[Higuy]

Don't participate.

All the candidates are a huge joke. The only way you're going to see some meaningful change is if you stop supporting the electoral system which just provides the illusion of choice.

Uhm, what? You do realize that the people elect the people in the electoral college, right? The reason its in place is to protect the candidates from idiots who have no idea what they are voting for and just vote to vote.

[Rainbow Dash]

What the FUCK does that have to do with anything I said?

[Limited]

Ron Paul looks like the guy that gets unhooded at the end of every Scooby Doo episode.

[DarkHalo003]

WELP.
A guy who tried to improve your health care system and ordered the closure of gitmo

or do you want to vote for the guy calling your current president a Nigger or maybe you want Ron Paul who may as well be a aged version of Hitler given the chance.
The Health Care system as it is in the bill is a total sham that will not work for the purpose that it really does nothing in terms of health coverage. You might as well keep going to free volunteer clinics that could probably help you better. Though closing down Gitmo was successful, there is little else he has accomplished and a lot that the administration has done wrong, like spoiling the banks irresponsibly with Bailouts (that shit should have ended after the first ones).

I've always had a weird vibe towards Ron Paul, like what he says is too good to be true. If this information holds out, then I suppose my gut was right all along. It was mainly that he said (especially to the new generation) what people wanted to hear and I feel like that's just too artificial.

@Limited: I realize that now. However, I'm tired of politicians and masqueraders being our Presidents and Congressmen.

@Sel: Carlin brings in adequate rhetoric and questions, but he IS a comedian. He is also a huge asshole. I want to vote because it's one of the political powers as a citizen that I have, though this season doesn't look like the first time I will be voting regardless.

And for the record, the Electoral College is a series of scholars voted by the people to allocate their state's points in an election based off of the best interest for the people of that state. Though some see it as extraneous and not representative of the people, one must ponder just how many people are actually educated properly on what each candidate promises versus actually do. In other words, if the population voters in a state were outweighed by uneducated individuals, then the electoral college balances that ratio by having the insight and information necessary to make the electoral votes for each state.

[Rainbow Dash]

I want to vote because it's one of the political powers as a citizen that I have

That's the joke.

As long as you believe your ability to pick your dictator for the next four years is actually meaningful, the longer you'll be dead easy to enslave.

[TVTyrant]

That's the joke.

As long as you believe your ability to pick your dictator for the next four years is actually meaningful, the longer you'll be dead easy to enslave.
Right, so lets get our guns, and start murdering political officials.

Owai-

[Limited]

That's the joke.

As long as you believe your ability to pick your dictator for the next four years is actually meaningful, the longer you'll be dead easy to enslave.It's better than not voting at all...fool.

[DarkHalo003]

That's the joke.

As long as you believe your ability to pick your dictator for the next four years is actually meaningful, the longer you'll be dead easy to enslave.
A bit dramatic don't you think? Like I said, Carlin is a Comedian meant to exaggerate the conditions surrounding certain issues to evoke emotions that ultimately lead to humor. The people easily have enough power to deal with the Executive branch as has been proven in the past, not to mention that Congress is not in coordination with the Executive that often, plus the Judicial Branch and Supreme Court checking the both of them.

Your theory, Sel, could be applied anywhere with voting for officials if you put it in the context you did.

[Rainbow Dash]

It's better than not voting at all...fool.

Doing something that accomplishes nothing is better than just doing nothing at all. Makes sense!



Like I said, Carlin is a Comedian meant to exaggerate the conditions surrounding certain issues to evoke emotions that ultimately lead to humor.


Like I said. The joke is that it's true.



Your theory, Sel, could be applied anywhere with voting for officials if you put it in the context you did.

Ok. So?

[DarkHalo003]

Like I said. The joke is that it's true.

Ok. So?
No.

[Limited]

Doing something that accomplishes nothing is better than just doing nothing at all. Makes sense!
No voting is one of the worst things you could do in the elections. The best thing to do if you really didnt want to vote for someone is to void the vote by ticking 2 boxes (so like ticking Ron Paul and Obama).

Assuming thats how it works in America.

[DarkHalo003]

No voting is one of the worst things you could do in the elections. The best thing to do if you really didnt want to vote for someone is to void the vote by ticking 2 boxes (so like ticking Ron Paul and Obama).

Assuming thats how it works in America.
Yes, the ticket would be void. Or you can prank the ticket by writing in someone completely bogus like Chuck Norris or Jack Daniels.

[rossmum]

hmmm how about that, the guy i told you is a completely abhorrent asshole is, in actual fact, a completely abhorrent asshole

[TVTyrant]

hmmm how about that, the guy i told you is a completely abhorrent asshole is, in actual fact, a completely abhorrent asshole
New concept right?

[DarkHalo003]

New concept right?
It is apparently on these forums.

[rossmum]

in the interests of making a less snarky post though, this is why you need to really look into someone before you throw your support behind them. forget the policies you know about; look at the ones they either don't explicitly mention, or they did but then their pr people tried to bury said mentions. ron paul is a crazy old bigot with horrible ideas and people insist on imbuing him with some kind of magical fairyland powers that will right all the wrongs of the us government and make things better for everyone. in reality, the only sensible thing i have ever heard him say is that 9/11 was essentially both predictable and preventable by avoiding fucking with other nations' shit. that comment got him a lot of opposition but to date it is the truest thing he has said that i know of and it's not his fault americans insist on pretending 9/11 was anything other than an avoidable consequence of stomping around the middle east like an intoxicated rhino in a fine china shop.

as an aside, in case you still have any faith at all in the free market's ability to make things anything but 'worse than ever before', look at what happens in online games with completely free markets. eve especially. eve is like some kind of libertarian dreamland where people do whatever the fuck and there are no regulations at all on trade or the game's market. you end up with shit like goonfleet cornering the market in rare alloys and then utterly demolishing trade, driving up the prices to the point of sheer ridiculousness and ensuring they get so hilariously spacerich that they can just continue to grow their power as long as there is a supply of goons eager to fuck shit up for comedy. people who actually play eve in a capacity beyond "shoot the bads sometimes and giggle as goons fuck things up", like cn or zeph, could elaborate on what kind of bullshit eve's free market economy allows.

i've said it before, i'll say it again: corporations are out of control. abolishing market regulations and vastly diminishing (if not removing) the responsibilities accorded to them by law will do nothing but build their wealth (and therefore power) even further. regardless of whether you share my socialist beliefs or not, one thing every sensible person should realise is that there needs to be more regulation, not less.

the only thing the free market does is benefit the fuckers sitting on piles and piles of wealth that they really don't earn. it would lead to rapid increases in the class divides and leave the poor even more powerless and voiceless than they already are, which is in itself an impressive situation considering the poor rather outnumber the rich. western society is already little more than poorly-disguised feudalism, we don't need it going any further down that road, thank you very much.

[DarkHalo003]

Politically, I don't support socialism for the United States (the model would not work well with the cultures that intersect the country in my opinion). However, I do agree with most of your points rossmum. It all comes down to critical thinking, something not too many people do in today's world.

[rossmum]

it's because they're specifically 'educated' not to. even in fairly socialist countries a lot of the education system is slanted against anything other than 'western democracy' (funny joke) and so very rarely does it turn out someone who is opposed to it on a level beyond usual student activism that they will grow out of with age. the reason that nothing has changed for so long is because the vast majority of people are blissfully ignorant of where the real problems start, and so they will attribute it to x candidate of y political party sooner than they will the entire system as a whole. it's not so much that they're happy enough with their lot - though i don't doubt some are, especially the richer members of society - but that they simply cannot see beyond what they've been taught.

ask yourself why else people grow up, go through school, buy a house and a car and put themselves in shitty debt, then work the rest of their life away to pay off those debts before having maybe twenty or thirty (often less these days) years of retirement. twenty or thirty years out of an average human lifespan is not all that much me-time. all the while the debts get bigger, the pay gets smaller, and the work hours get longer while retirement gets slashed. before long they'll have us slaving away until we're in our seventies and we'll only get the money to pay for a simple funeral, because that's what's best for business! and business means everything.

[Sanctus]

TL;DR
Protests don't do shit, just people being loud. You need someone to back you that works in law or something like that.
I watched a debate where Ron Paul said he'd legalize drugs like Heroine because the increase in tax revenue would be enormous, so that was enough for me.
I believe the basic idea of Communism would actually be sort of appealing if humans weren't greedy by nature, otherwise someone in power always hordes the money for his/her personal gain.
Fuck voting, our votes don't count.

Kbai

[DarkHalo003]

Well Gingrich is finally out of the race. I've decided that it is unlikely that I will vote and if anyone asks I will simply tell them because I am at college (which is one of the main reasons why voter turnouts aren't as fruitful as they could be). Romney and Paul are both relatively scary candidates. Obama isn't much better.

[TVTyrant]

I wouldn't call Obama scary. I'd just say hes not a very good president. This is the least heated race I can remember tbh

[paladin]

Maybe no one will get the majority... fun stuff happens then! :3

[Limited]

Yes, the ticket would be void. Or you can prank the ticket by writing in someone completely bogus like Chuck Norris or Jack Daniels.The important thing is you are marked down as having voted, albeit voided the vote.

People who didnt vote (in the poll before) play a vital role in these peoples elections, they try to cater to that with wooing statements, which are typically catchy lines that have no bulk to them. Like that dude who said he wants a moon base, we all know that wont happen.

You want to make them fight for your vote.

[Rainbow Dash]

TL;DR

...
I believe the basic idea of Communism would actually be sort of appealing if humans weren't greedy by nature, otherwise someone in power always hordes the money for his/her personal gain.


1)Humans are not greedy by nature

2) Communism has no money

3) don't bring your TL;DR shit to this thread, if you have time to spend on an internet forum and post, you have time to read the thread (or atleast skim it for the good posts)

[DarkHalo003]

Human nature is the human tendency to variate based on one's perceptions and feelings. It swings in any direction, so let's please avoid using it as an argument all together. This applies for both sides of any argument, unless you're having a philosophical discussion based directly on human nature.

[rossmum]

Yeah people use "BUT LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT HUMAN NATURE AND ALSO I," all the time as an argument against it, when there are definitely people out there who are more worried about others than themselves. If there weren't, wars would fall flat with no soldiers fighting them and nobody would go out on a limb and risk their livelihood to invent something to help the world. Sure, some people are complete self-absorbed assholes, but saying that greed is a part of human nature is just as wrong as saying that a desire for peace and equality is. It varies from person to person, nation to nation, and culture to culture.

All the same, it is still a cop-out excuse, like most other excuses people use. Really it comes down to being too lazy, too afraid, or simply too brainwashed to embrace change and make it happen.

[TVTyrant]

would saying its the nature of life be okay then?

[rossmum]

not really, it's a fairly poor rule to apply even to animals. instincts and personalities (yes, most animals with any kind of intelligence tend to have their own distinct set of behaviours, not just cats and dogs) aren't really something you can write off that easily.

[Rainbow Dash]

would saying its the nature of life be okay then?

Ever wonder why sharks (and other animals) in competently run aquariums don't eat each other?

[=sw=warlord]

Ever wonder why sharks (and other animals) in competently run aquariums don't eat each other?
Ever wondered why sharks are constantly able to replace their teeth yet humans don't?

[DarkHalo003]

There is also the matter that human nature is oppressed by humanity. Few can actually be themselves in comparison to the rest of the world because the social constructs that define our lives bar our ability to be someone NOT sculpted by the societies we live in. I hate this. I hate society because it brought this madness into a world I can hardly fit into without dawning a mask. Everyone's reactions are predictable and I'm struggling with being optimistic versus realistic. What's better? Insulting someone because you think they're irritating or lying to someone just to be socially nice? No, I hate it all. I hate such a complicated world. I hate hating. It's hardly living if all I'm doing is existing without any reason or ambition. There's no point to dying prematurely because I have life. There's no reason in pursuing ambition because my society bars my way with obstacles completely unrelated to it. That is why I do nothing. I just exist in the world to prove how pointless most of it conventions are or to keep others from deteriorating. Mathematics, science, religion, society: all of it is subjective when humanity constantly degrades itself by people degrading people. I've reached the point where I'm asking what's actually real.

[PopeAK49]

I like how every political thread has troll posts. It's comical in the fact that people are making others angry by saying: Dont vote! When in fact they will vote because you pissed them off. Activists should really take psychology courses if they ever want to get anywhere.

[rossmum]

define "troll posts"

because i'm fairly certain that phrase does not mean what you seem to think it means

[PopeAK49]

You're right, when arguing about how shitty Ron Paul is, people have to shit on american values and rights which has nothing to do with Ron Pauls shittyness. I should have known that it wasn't a case of troll, but a shitty attempt of activism. My bad.

[sleepy1212]

that article is retarded. it's a top ten list of false dichotomies based on partisan ideals.

even if Paul's ideas were bad they didn't even attempt to take account of his widely known explanations.

for example:

"Ron Paul is a racist because he wants to abolish affirmative action". if you think affirmative action is inherently racist on multiple levels
(which it is), abolishing it in favor of real equality wouldn't be racist, it would be fair.

and so on and so on....

[TVTyrant]

that article is retarded. it's a top ten list of false dichotomies based on partisan ideals.

even if Paul's ideas were bad they didn't even attempt to take account of his widely known explanations.

for example:

"Ron Paul is a racist because he wants to abolish affirmative action". if you think affirmative action is inherently racist on multiple levels
(which it is), abolishing it in favor of real equality wouldn't be racist, it would be fair.

and so on and so on....
fair

[DarkHalo003]

that article is retarded. it's a top ten list of false dichotomies based on partisan ideals.

even if Paul's ideas were bad they didn't even attempt to take account of his widely known explanations.

for example:

"Ron Paul is a racist because he wants to abolish affirmative action". if you think affirmative action is inherently racist on multiple levels
(which it is), abolishing it in favor of real equality wouldn't be racist, it would be fair.

and so on and so on....
Would you care to further your analysis sleepy? I'd like to make sure what's actually legitimate and what isn't, especially when it involves the person who will try to lead this country for the next 4 years.

[rossmum]

You're right, when arguing about how shitty Ron Paul is, people have to shit on american values and rights which has nothing to do with Ron Pauls shittyness. I should have known that it wasn't a case of troll, but a shitty attempt of activism. My bad.
tell me more about how anyone who doesn't follow your own narrow perception of the ideals and values and rights of an entire nation of some 300 million is either fakeposting or making a 'shitty attempt at activism'


even if Paul's ideas were bad they didn't even attempt to take account of his widely known explanations.

for example:

"Ron Paul is a racist because he wants to abolish affirmative action". if you think affirmative action is inherently racist on multiple levels
(which it is), abolishing it in favor of real equality wouldn't be racist, it would be fair.

and so on and so on....
okay so which part is his explanation for refusing to use toilets that gay people have potentially used while normal, good heterosexual toilets are just fine

and which part is his explanation for being all cagey around other races or religions or sexual persuasions

and which policies of his are anything other than terrible with the sole exception of "don't bomb the piss out of other countries then act surprised when bad shit happens"

[Rainbow Dash]

I am amazed that king isn't all up in this thread going on and on about how free market capitalism is the solution to all our problems.

[Bobblehob]

I am amazed that king isn't all up in this thread going on and on about how free market capitalism is the solution to all our problems.

Im amazed that you make your attempts at provoking him in to another useless argument so obvious xP

[TVTyrant]

I am amazed that king isn't all up in this thread going on and on about how free market capitalism is the solution to all our problems.
I think he got tired of going around and around and around. When an immovable object (you) meets an immovable object (King) it makes an unstoppable whirlwind.

[DarkHalo003]

How can an immovable object meet an immovable object?

[rossmum]

How can an immovable object meet an immovable object?
damn

[TVTyrant]

How can an immovable object meet an immovable object?
They are set very, very close to each other.

[=sw=warlord]

How can an immovable object meet an immovable object?
*Irish logic*

[DarkHalo003]

They are set very, very close to each other.
But how can an immovable object be set anywhere if it is immovable?

Lol hypothetics.

[Rainbow Dash]

*Implying that either mine or king's opinions on the solutions to our economic crisis are set in stone*

[JackalStomper]

implying they can be called solutions

[TVTyrant]

implying they can be called solutions
implying this isn't a spot on description lol

[Futzy]

implying they can be called solutions
Implying that halo isnt real and we cant just go there and live in an open source reality

[Higuy]

IVjfa0Alz5o

[TVTyrant]

Thats fucking amazing.

[DarkHalo003]

RO RO FIGHT THE POWA!

[TVTyrant]

RO RO FIGHT THE POWA!
Ron Paul Fight the powa!

[Pooky]

Even if an immovable object did meet another immovable object, nothing would happen.

Because neither of them would be moving.

[DarkHalo003]

An immovable object could never meet another immovable object because neither object could move to meet the other object.

[Pooky]

An immovable object could never meet another immovable object because neither object could move to meet the other object.

But even supposing they hypothetically did, supposing both objects existed together from the start of the universe. Nothing would happen.

[TVTyrant]

But even supposing they hypothetically did, supposing both objects existed together from the start of the universe. Nothing would happen.
This is exactly the point I was making.

[DarkHalo003]

So....WHAT THE FUCK WAS THE POINT OF THIS?

[TVTyrant]

So....WHAT THE FUCK WAS THE POINT OF THIS?
That the two of them have formed their opinions and aren't going to change. You might as well talk to a pair of concrete walls if you want to talk politics with them.

[DarkHalo003]

That the two of them have formed their opinions and aren't going to change. You might as well talk to a pair of concrete walls if you want to talk politics with them.
A much better example.

[TVTyrant]

A much better example.
Lol theres like 2 pages about this haha.

[Rainbow Dash]

Lol theres like 2 pages about this haha.

Congratulations, you have, yet again, taken a legitimate thread full of opportunity for meaningful discussion and turned it into shit?

[TVTyrant]

Congratulations, you have, yet again, taken a legitimate thread and turned it into completely worthless discussion.
Its what I do man. I used to have a sig about it...

[DarkHalo003]

Congratulations, you have, yet again, taken a legitimate thread full of opportunity for meaningful discussion and turned it into shit?
Considering that this thread has only been irrelevant for a page as compared to three pages (as now Tyrant has gotten his point across connecting all of the dots), I feel like it's been more successful than half of the other threads out here.