A thread with a difference: 'THE HORRORS OF WAR' in mainstream gaming

[Pooky]

I was being very general, there are always exceptions.

Is it just too much to ask that a big budget game NOT be centered around its competitive multiplayer for once? And is it also too much to ask that a big-budget game also not be a general pile of shit?

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree and I'd rather see more SP games. Still, MP focus wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for a general void of creativity from big publishers.

[Mr Buckshot]

ironically it was multiplayer that pushed me to quit torrenting PC games and start buying them a few years back.

now I rarely buy games specifically for multiplayer, not since BF3, and had a lot of fun along the way. Sure, the AI is crap in the shooting games but the storyline always keeps things going.

[DarkHalo003]

I'm not exactly sure if I understand the premise of this thread. Is it that someone has an opinion that stories ruin gameplay and therefore most modern games suck, or is it that someone has an opinion that most games are being milked and devs are forcing a story upon them in an attempt to make them appear legitimate?

If it's the first one, I hate this thread.

[Higuy]

Its that games are being milked, most have absolutely no replay value, and stories aren't ever that amazing anymore. Theres a few exceptions of course, but it seems the thread is mainly disucssing games like Call of Duty, Halo, etc, FPS.

The game that came out in the past year or so that was truly amazing was Skyrim, it had alot of replay value, hundreds of hours of gameplay, and a pretty worthwhile storyline.

But then we can get into other games, such as Battlefield 3 or Call of Duty. Both have mediocre story lines (that are extremely short in comparison to other games, even Halo), linear gameplay, but also a fun (although shortlived) multiplayer experience. Both games were extremely hyped up, and its no doubt that the games generated tons of sales for both EA and Activision, respectively. But seriously, were those games actually worth the money? Were they worth 60 dollars? Do they deserve the ratings they got, etc. Both got 9's, if I recall correctly on IGN, which I believe is unfair and neither game truly deserved either rating (However that is my opinion).

People here are also complaining about uncreative multiplayer experience that basically use the "CoD" effect (and may I also add that some use "Halo" like gameplay), and that each new sequal is basically just another version of its predecessor, not actually inviting any new creativity or uniquness. It's quite sad really, but obviously as everyone should be able to tell, they sell, they make money, and people who dont care about actual game design and just want to play " guns & shiny lens flare effect 5 in HD" will buy it.

[Warsaw]

tl;dr: Ross wants games that separate story from gameplay so he can just get straight to the play and totally ignore the story if he wants to. He is also tired of devs thinking they are making political statements when all they have done is force-fed something appalling to you in a way that makes you roll your eyes rather than be appalled.

Also, The Elder Scrolls in general is a terrible example if you want to talk about good stories in games.

[Higuy]

Also, The Elder Scrolls in general is a terrible example if you want to talk about good stories in games.

Whys that? Because its an RPG and you can make decisions? I still believe it has a better general storyline (Dragonborn, etc) then a game like BF or CoD were its like OMG russians! Kill! While both are totally different and both capable of producing worthwhile storylines and plots, I'm going to go with the Elder Scrolls because its generally more creative then your typical 'merica vs ruskies cliche that you see in LOTS of FPS's or Humans vs Aliens that will wipe them all out. Also it comes down to opinions as well, as I found the Elder Scrolls an extremely refreshing game compared to 90% of everything else that has come out in the last 3 years.

Mass Effect is the only other exception, and it also had a huge expanisve universive to explore and go deep in. Even Halo did not offer the same kind of exploration and discovery in its universe.

[rossmum]

tl;dr: Ross wants games that separate story from gameplay so he can just get straight to the play and totally ignore the story if he wants to. He is also tired of devs thinking they are making political statements when all they have done is force-fed something appalling to you in a way that makes you roll your eyes rather than be appalled.

Also, The Elder Scrolls in general is a terrible example if you want to talk about good stories in games.

ding ding ding

additionally bethesda are awful writers, worse than children, and if you play tes games for the story you are sadly misguided as to what constitutes a 'good story'. worse still with fallout 3, which was the biggest clusterfuck of cliched, bad writing i have seen in a long time and a disgrace to the fallout name. new vegas, on the other hand, was superb - because bethesda were only publishing, not writing the damn thing.

bethesda don't understand choice. they give you the illusion of choice (and a very shallow one at that) by having two polar opposites and no middle ground. conversation going somewhere you don't like in skyrim? there's no dialogue branch for that, the only way out is to literally just cancel the whole conversation. what kind of shitty writing and game design is that?

if you want to see REAL choice, and REAL writing, play new vegas. skyrim was decently pretty to look at and fun to explore, but it has a bad story which doesn't mesh well with gameplay at all.

[TVTyrant]

Doesn't mean they are "bad" games. Just means they aren't what you were wanting in them. It's honestly impossible to have a full "free choice" game.

[Warsaw]

Whys that? Because its an RPG and you can make decisions? I still believe it has a better general storyline (Dragonborn, etc) then a game like BF or CoD were its like OMG russians! Kill! While both are totally different and both capable of producing worthwhile storylines and plots, I'm going to go with the Elder Scrolls because its generally more creative then your typical 'merica vs ruskies cliche that you see in LOTS of FPS's or Humans vs Aliens that will wipe them all out. Also it comes down to opinions as well, as I found the Elder Scrolls an extremely refreshing game compared to 90% of everything else that has come out in the last 3 years.

Mass Effect is the only other exception, and it also had a huge expanisve universive to explore and go deep in. Even Halo did not offer the same kind of exploration and discovery in its universe.

First, you assume I like Battlefield 3 and CoD. You would be wrong. They both have terrible campaigns and questionable multiplayer. Bad Company has a fun campaign, but the story is there for amusement rather than cerebral engagement, especially with the first one.

No, TES and Mass Effect have terrible stories because their worlds are so full of pragmatic, logical, and plot-based holes. They are a mess and they can't decide what they want to be. Mass Effect started as this wondrous galaxy full of things to discover, things both terrible and awesome and ended up another cliché Man vs. Machine story with all of the discovery taken away, with flimsy characters and equally flimsy choices throughout the series.

The Elder Scrolls is even worse. Quick, let's see how many generic fantasy items we can squeeze into one game!

Vampires? check.
Orks? check.
Elves? Check.
WoW--I mean Dark--Elves? Check.
Werewolves? Check.
Dragons? Check.
Animated Skeletons? Check.
Trolls? Check...hell, the publishers themselves could count as this.
Mystical prophecy coming true and only one man/woman can stop it? Check.

Now squeezing as much as possible into the game alone is only half the problem. They didn't even try to do it tastefully. You know why Lord of the Rings is so fraking awesome? Because everything is in moderation. Magic is invisible, you don't meet some supernatural beast every two steps, the story was planned from start to finish, and the characters are few (given the size) but have real depth and substance to them. TES is supposedly a Tolkein-esque fantasy, but it's nothing more than a mockery of it. Oh, and your choices essentially boil down to "be a dick" or "not be a dick." You aren't faced with something grey and confusing like choosing to level an entire village because doing so will show some evil deity that he doesn't need to begin the Rapture yet and restore darkness to the world, thus buying time for the forces of Light to prepare.

That's why TES sucks. That's why ME sucks. Unfortunately for us, BioWare and Bethesda do try more than most and thus they are the ones setting the bar. It's not a very high bar, but it is a bar nonetheless.

A bar, by the way, that Metro 2033 passes brilliantly. Though they cheated, since Metro 2033 is a book and 4A had help from the author.

[Higuy]

ding ding ding

additionally bethesda are awful writers, worse than children, and if you play tes games for the story you are sadly misguided as to what constitutes a 'good story'. worse still with fallout 3, which was the biggest clusterfuck of cliched, bad writing i have seen in a long time and a disgrace to the fallout name. new vegas, on the other hand, was superb - because bethesda were only publishing, not writing the damn thing.

bethesda don't understand choice. they give you the illusion of choice (and a very shallow one at that) by having two polar opposites and no middle ground. conversation going somewhere you don't like in skyrim? there's no dialogue branch for that, the only way out is to literally just cancel the whole conversation. what kind of shitty writing and game design is that?

if you want to see REAL choice, and REAL writing, play new vegas. skyrim was decently pretty to look at and fun to explore, but it has a bad story which doesn't mesh well with gameplay at all.

Funny, I did not like Fallout 3's story a whole lot and never really got in to New Vegas when my brother lent it to me. Like TVTyrant said its pretty much all about opinions.

dsafidsf

What the fuck did I just read?

Oh yeah, opinions, like already stated.