2012 Presidency (USA)

[Amit]

Quiet, Timo! You've said too much already!

In related news, Romney: ‘We Don’t Have People Who Die Because They Don’t Have Insurance’

This guy talks like the emergency room will save you 100% of the time, which it won't for people who are seriously ill and had no previous access to treatment.

[rossmum]

The potential is much higher than you give it credit for. People over here are very fed up with the current two options over here, I can tell you that as fact. They haven't been presented with an alternative they like yet, but somebody is going to catch on and provide one very soon.

you and i and probably several others here are idealists, all in our own ways. this makes us fundamentally different from your average citizen in a number of ways.

in this case, the relevant example is that we consider there to be vast, overarching problems with the system which cannot be solved by electing one party over the other. most people, meanwhile, think in terms of "x party created this problem" and "y party can solve it". this will not be changed by more parties, it will just broaden the argument slightly. at the end of the day, another two (or maybe three, by some miracle) major players will emerge from that and we've gotten absolutely nowhere.

parties are holding us back, just like your entire system of government is. ours is too, but it strikes me as easier to restructure into something worthwhile than the clusterfuck you have.

It's also cute that you think probability is interchangeable with possibility because *quantum mechanics.* Newsflash: that only applies in application when your probability is astronomically small, and the probability of a third party showing up to the fight in a major way is far far greater than that, because...

...you don't know anything about the people of the USA, today. You don't give the rate of change here enough credit, and that's because you are only able to view the events through whatever filters in via the various media you use. I live here, and I can tell you that it's not as cut and dry as you like to think it is. I wouldn't pretend to dictate to you how your own society is dealing with its politics, so don't try to dictate to me what's going on over here when I have a much firmer grasp of it than you could possibly (look, there's that word again) have unless you have been living here over the last 4 years.

i don't base this on media, i base this on talking to people from all over the country. if people were anywhere near as enlightened as you are making out, this thread would not exist to begin with.

out of all my friends in the us, and all the americans i speak to regularly, a meagre handful of you have political ideals outside of the two major parties. some of my left-wing friends will generally agree with me when i get taken up with a sudden bout of socialist fury, but ten minutes later they're fanboying for the dems again.

i haven't really heard anyone claim any significant change is coming. i've heard the republicans are falling apart at the seams as they alienate more centre-right voters, which i can see happening here with the liberals (conservatives, remember) as well, but that won't fix a damn thing. voting for independents won't fix anything unless everyone votes for the "right" one, which is highly unlikely. you are far too optimistic for your own good. you cannot win a fixed game.

As for the last bit, those parties that broke up? Yeah, they slowly consolidate into new coalitions, which turn into new parties. You are left with two new parties. That said, it's funny you put it like that. Does the UK not have a multitude of parties?

yes, it has loads. so does australia. in both cases, none of the small parties make a blind bit of difference unless there's a hung parliament. the overwhelming majority of votes go to the two major parties.

Is the UK not, by your own definition, decades ahead of the USA? Does the UK get work done, or do they squabble all day? No matter how you answer any of that, you make my case for me.

how do i? all it does is illustrate how horrifically broken the current form of the democratic system is.

[=sw=warlord]

As for the last bit, those parties that broke up? Yeah, they slowly consolidate into new coalitions, which turn into new parties. You are left with two new parties. That said, it's funny you put it like that. Does the UK not have a multitude of parties? Is the UK not, by your own definition, decades ahead of the USA? Does the UK get work done, or do they squabble all day? No matter how you answer any of that, you make my case for me.

The very fact that smaller running parties can collect together to become a coalition is one defining change from what the seemingly binary voting system you guys seem to have.
Not only that but we also have watchdog groups which over see certain aspects of government and authoritative organizations which you yourself stated you don't have.

On note of probability, just because it's possible for a third party to jump in on your elections does not give them a probable chance of obtaining any form of formal election.
When you have members of one part or another who are benefactors of the corporations who create voting machines and then account into the fact that "donations" put into the marketing results in hundreds of millions of dollars, it becomes very unlikely, thus improbable that a third party can simply waltz into the election and gain a win.
To give some form of analogy, It would be kin to a canoe with a monkey sat in the back with a pistol shooting at the USS Iowa and expecting it to be able to sink the Iowa.

[rossmum]

Also the pistol is a Lorcin.

[TVTyrant]

Also the pistol is a Lorcin.

hehe

[Timo]

Guys I just finished studying it out, turns out Obama really is a communist.

[Rainbow Dash]

if fucking only

[Amit]

Notice how she herself didn't even know what a communist is?

[Rainbow Dash]

Notice how she herself didn't even know what a communist is?

well obviously anyone who thinks Obama is a communist wouldn't know what a communist was loll

[DarkHalo003]

Now one thing I have come to realize in terms of our parents' generation is that the reason why a lot of them don't like Obama and call him a negative socialist/communist is because, growing up, our parents were faced with harsh living in that the "evil" USSR lived by those standards. Then there's the fact that the USSR collapsed utilizing those same ideals (even though it's because the West spent them to death, or something like that, plus internal issues), so going a Socialist/Communist route for a lot of these people brings Cold War Era trauma.