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Thread: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

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  1. #1
    $20 bill y'all Bodzilla's Avatar
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    the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    Howdy guys i'm gunna float an idea by yas, and i want you to think analyze and respond.

    I Personally believe that in places all around the world that community ties, spirit and activism is being increasingly eroded, and that it's so powerful that it's even having a tremendous effect negative effect on mental health for things like depression, anxiety ect.

    What i'm talking about is Take-away alcohol.

    Over thousands of years mankind has been making the stuff, it's so old that it's theorized in some circles that the origin of the written language could have been the writing down of recipes to make alcohol. Whether thats true or not is irrelevant, but it's an incredibly ancient practice we've been doing through all developed civilizations that have existed on this planet.
    How we handle it has changed in that time. We put restrictions in place to mandate how the drug is served to people. We've created things like minimum age, security, the responsible service of alcohol, food has to be available, sleeping arrangements ect ect.
    And this is to make sure it's a safe environment in pubs and clubs to go drinking, to try and mange the negative sides of it.

    But a recent thing changed that, we began to sell it over the counter for people to take home.
    and thats changed everything.

    It's clear alcohol is very, very big buisness, which is quite evident from massive company's such as Westfarm (woolworths) and Coles (both are supermarkets who own 40% EACH of australias food supply) have moved in and are dominating the sale of alcohol.

    And it's because it's cheap.

    They dont have to provide security, because it's not consumed on site, and a whole raft of other expenses pubs are forced to endure. And that isn't even mentioning they're market buying power, so they can get it twice as cheap as the pubs can.
    This all leads into a massive difference in cost for people at the pub vs the take away alcohol, and most people have voted with their wallet and left the pubs.

    But what people dont understand in this is that pubs have traditionally been a community hub for thousands of years. People would migrate to then, for a drink, because it's the only place they could get it. There they would do the most important thing a community can do. Talk to each other.

    They'd exchange different ideals, rally for social cause's and network with other people. They'd form sports teams, they'd do fundraisers for schools and other important things in the region, they'd be socially engaged as to what was happening around them and form protests against things they didnt like. I cannot possibly over-state how important this is for people.
    So many community related projects where born in pubs for this very reason, because you'd have a sizeable chunk of the population, in a small area.

    And we've lost it.

    If you talk to anyone from a smaller town or rural place i can guarantee to you that you'll hear the same stoy's, that people dont know each other anymore, the town isn't as safe as it used to be, the community spirit is gone.
    and it's my personal belief that all of these things are making people feel more isolated, more alone in a big wide world. There arn't as many people to lean on, talk to or socialize with, and thats why i think it's also affecting alot of peoples emotional and psychological health.

    If you want a better community, a friendlier place, a better social structure... Get people back to the pubs by changing the way we do take away alcohol, by either forcing more tax on it, removing tax at the pub or outright removing licenses for people to sell it as take-away.

    TL : DR

    One of the reason's community's and social interactions are being destroyed is because of take away alcohol.

    For thousands of years if people wanted a drink they had to go to a specific place to get it, and over time we made legal requirements like "the responsible service of alcohol" sleeping arrangements, security food ect.

    So people would gather in their local hubs and talk about things, network and connect to other people.

    Now with take-away alcohol dominating the market because it's cheaper and they dont need security or any of those other restrictions because it's not consumed on-site, people take it home, drink by themselves of with their partners.
    They no longer connect or socialize with other people or network. It's also one of hte major reasons activism isn't as pronounced as it used to be in earlier times, because the people that drank together, played sport together and protested together.

    You wanna fix a society's ability to form ACTUAL community's and not just a bunch of house's close together? Get people back to the pub.
    They're more important then schools.

    Let me know what you think
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    $20 bill y'all Bodzilla's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    Just for reference, i work in a take-away alcohol store.

    With this post i didnt even touch on the other major issues of the hidden alcoholism now, and the insanely destructive things drinking in the home does to family life, through domestic violence, and passing on these behaviors to kids, and i believe these things are enhanced by it being peoples homes.
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    Senior Member =sw=warlord's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    If it helps, I don't drink alcohol, I also know a fair few others who don't also.
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    GLORY TO ARSTOTZKA rossmum's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    I think it's definitely a contributing factor. I remember back when we lived in the UK, it was a pretty common thing to walk into the local pub and see it packed. Over here, you generally only see that during a special event of some sort, but Dan Murphy's or Liquorland are usually pretty busy.
    Take my hand and I'll show you what was and will be
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    Tick Gate 2014 Donut's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    I'm sure it's a factor, just like air conditioning is a factor because it allows people to comfortably stay inside on a hot day. What I'm saying is there are countless factors to this breakdown of societal values you're talking about. It's the degree to which take-home alcohol affects this issue that you should be arguing, and frankly I'm just not seeing a very large degree here. Plenty of people drink together with take-home alcohol. I don't drink myself, but as a college student I can tell you first hand that nearly every social gathering has this take-home alcohol. I see it all the time at family parties too. I don't think I could seriously assert that take-home alcohol is a major player in a society that's getting progressively shittier due to lack of communication.

    You're coming dangerously close to prohibition with your suggestion to revoke liquor licenses. Idk if Australia has ever had an era of prohibition, but alcohol was banned entirely in the US in the early 1900s. It lead to huge networks of organized crime being formed around bootlegging alcohol. Providing alcohol to people who wanted it in a government that didn't allow it is how the mafia became so powerful. People are always going to do what's more convenient, and if you try to oppress them, they will rebel.
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    Gar TVTyrant's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    Not entirely true. Farmers often brewed and consumed their own beer for a long, long time. Liquor has often been a homemade product in the US, just look at the whiskey rebellion.

    But I think you have a point, even if I disagree with it. The social stigma in my family at least is strongly against drinking alone, and while I've had my share of minor depression, that was a place I never wanted to go and (thankfully) never did.
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    Shaka when the walls fell sleepy1212's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    ^Exactly. Homebrew is probably much older than the local bar.
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    It Isn't Easy Being Green DarkHalo003's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    While I see your point, I'd rather focus on remedying the reasons why people drink to the point of alcoholism. Coming from a family who's had and still has some alcoholic issues, I'd rather the community/society instill a sense of worth in everyone as well as encourage the intervention of alcoholics. The problem isn't so much that people bring home alcohol or brew it, let alone drink it, but rather the reasons why they do it. For example, while a drink after work to soothe one's long day isn't a big issue, lots of drinks because your day didn't go well is very bad health-wise and for relationships. Society should focus on instilling a sense that others can be open about their problems and be vulnerable without worrying about abandonment or degradation. At least, that's what I try to do when I meet people and befriend them.

    Your idea sounds solid though as it can avoid domestic abuse outright for the most part. Japan does something positive like this as well. Regardless, I'm totally for solutions on how to defeat alcoholism and all problems linked to it.
    Last edited by DarkHalo003; September 6th, 2013 at 09:49 AM.
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    $20 bill y'all Bodzilla's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    people mistake what i've said as a way to solve every social issue ever. Thats not what i've said or am implying. I just believe it's commonly forgotten about the roles pubs used to play in community's for community gatherings, networking and socialization.
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    Neanderthal Dwood's Avatar
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    Re: the forgotten ingredient for a working community.

    I like where this is going. Especially with the point or importance of gathering together as a community. Pubs were and in Ireland, still are grest places for gathering and exchanging thoughts and ideas.. modern pubs seem to be replaced by digital gathering places such as forums not unlike this one.


    I may be going on a tangent, however:
    These kinds of things are what helps us grow and develop as people... I know getting my fair share of flames and infractions have helped me cope even in normal social situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by katherineapplegate

    So sorry to get you into writing. What a horrible thing to inflict on you. Should have just sold you crack.
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