Modacity shooters' thread

[Matooba]

2014
I have a new 9mm like this one.
I also own a 4G Glock and soon to be Ranger.
Pretty excited about the Ranger. The guy said it shoots a 5inch flame out the front of it.
Lucky in NH, i can go shoot my firearms in my backyard. :)

[PenGuin1362]

NH you say? where abouts? I live in a neighborhood so I can't shoot in my yard, so I just go to the off road trail behind my street, there's a nice sandpit there. Can't say I've ever been a fan of glocks, they're just to bland and bulky to me

[Spartan094]

I agree with you on how bland they look but I just dont see how "bulky" glocks are, I have a Glock 19 9mm and it doesn't seem bulky at all to me.

[TVTyrant]

I've never like the sweep on the grip/ Really uncomfortable on my massive meaty palms.

[Cortexian]

I agree with you on how bland they look but I just dont see how "bulky" glocks are, I have a Glock 19 9mm and it doesn't seem bulky at all to me.
He may have meant "blocky" because Glocks really are. USP is a good balance of smooth lines and blocky slide imo. Glocks are pretty tiny though in comparison to most handguns.

[Warsaw]

USPs are more angular and blocky than Glocks (which have rounded edges and vertices), with a grip that's twice as square. Whatchu talkin' about?

[Cortexian]

The slides. A Glock is a rectangle, a USP isn't.

All grips are ergonomic to some degree. When someone talks about a guns looks I usually assume they're talking about slides, since the lower frame you grip is pretty much the same general shape for all firearms.

[PenGuin1362]

They just feel awkward and uncomfortable. I've never found anything appealing to me in a Glock, plus, like we've had this argument pages back, I found their action to be not as clean as others, and their triggers bother me too. Love the triggers on the S&W M&P's

[Warsaw]

The slides. A Glock is a rectangle, a USP isn't.

All grips are ergonomic to some degree. When someone talks about a guns looks I usually assume they're talking about slides, since the lower frame you grip is pretty much the same general shape for all firearms.


I was talking about the slide. The USP is sharp-edged. The Glock is not. Yes, it's boxy, but it is less angular than the still-boxy USP which has zero rounded edges on its slide. As for ergonomc grips: that's up to the shooter, but I've always felt that the modern Glock grip was much more comfortable than the USP in every way. I'm not saying the Glock is a fantastic gun to shoot, I'm just saying that the USP is far more boxy than a Glock. I'm just defending the clean-cut Glock over the messy, busy look of the USP.

I mean, shit, don't tell me this isn't boxy:
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/hk/hk_usp.jpg

[TeeKup]

HK makes it as angular and gives it all those details as much as they can so that can put a bigger price tag on it saying it was harder to manufacture.

...I apologize for that horrible run on sentence, but it's 4 am and I just got off work...and I'm tired as fuck.

[Matooba]

2015
My Glock and yes it really isn't very comfortable to shoot.
@PenGuin1362, I live in Nottingham. I'm on Route 4 towards Lee Speedway. I'm on 7 acres, so i don't need to worry much.

[PenGuin1362]

ah, that's like an hour north of me. I live in Milford, it's like half hour south of Manchester

[Spartan094]

2015
My Glock and yes it really isn't very comfortable to shoot.
Fourth generation glock right? That looks very different from my second generation glock imo. I prefer the older glock models apposed to the newer ones for some reason. then again I am not the fancy type to add little lasers or flashlights to a pistol.

[Cortexian]

I mean, shit, don't tell me this isn't boxy:
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/hk/hk_usp.jpg
It's more angular than the Glock, because Glock rounds their slide edges, but overall the USP looks less boxy to me. Also, the angles are extremely useful for one-handed weapon-manipulation. Got lots more places you can "hook" to than on a Glock, you may not know what I'm talking about if you've never taken a course or watched a good instructional video on one-handed manipulation though.

[Warsaw]

Usefulness is irrelevant since were talking about looks. More places to hook also makes it terrible as a concealed carry weapon, further rendering irrelevant that advantage since it's also a disadvantage. It's also not terribly hard to figure out how to one-hand any gun. For example: have catch point? Have belt? You're in business. Shit, I can even one-hand my Enfield and an AK.

Moving on: I've always favoured the Glock 26 out of the entire line-up. I think it just looks good. Not much use at an appreciable distance, though.

[TVTyrant]

I dont like Glocks. They seem cheap to me, they look ugly, and are just overall overdone. A good 1911, a Browning HP, a CZ 75, any of these guns I would take over a Glock. Poly frames look horrendous to me.

[Cortexian]

I kind of want a SIG P226, been favoring it recently... Need to try one out though.

[PenGuin1362]

I've heard good things from sig, never personally handled or fired one though

[Warsaw]

Never fired. Will be doing so either this weekend or early next week. I'll let you know how it is.

[TVTyrant]

So I'm thinking of buying a Mauser 98 of one kind or another this summer. Most of what I am seeing are either of Czech or Yugo manufacture, and that is fine for me. But Mitchells has me intrigued, since their "K98" is completely refurbished and is priced competitively with the Yugos that will come with some wear and a lot of cosmoline. Anyone have some tips or opinions?

[Warsaw]

Find a G98 instead. They are better guns.

[TVTyrant]

Except they are more expensive, some have .318 bores instead of .323, and I'd be more interested in casing it and saving it than shooting. With a K98 style rifle I could shoot it, hunt with it, bang it around a little, and not worry about damaging my uber expensive collectors piece.

[Warsaw]

Shit man, I could have had a 1916 original manufacture G98 with good bore and matching serials for $200. Not that hard to find. I passed it up because I was on a really tight budget.

[TVTyrant]

Where did you see it? I only see obscure stuff at shows. I have seen a pile of Arisakas two feet high and about 12 feet long. No joke. You can find anything at those.

I'm mostly looking to do internet business. I have found a lot of store owners in my area to be pushy when I examine half of their pieces and leave with one box of .30-06 ammo. So I'm really looking at the web for a cheap rifle. If I see a G98 at a show and have the money though I would totally snag it. Especially for $200, which would be an amazing deal.

[PenGuin1362]

That's what's nice about one of the stores I frequent. They all love guns just as much, sure they try to sell you stuff but they're happy to let you walk around and examine all the stuff on display.

Personally I like collecting rifles that came from the original manufacturer, or at least it's country of origin. So I'd go with the German K98, they usually run about $500 for a good one. But if you don't mind Yugo's that's fine too.

[rossmum]

Anybody who gets a 1911 something smaller than .38 is wrong in the head. :gonk:
get out, 7.62x25 1911s are baller as fuck


I dont like Glocks. They seem cheap to me, they look ugly, and are just overall overdone. A good 1911, a Browning HP, a CZ 75, any of these guns I would take over a Glock. Poly frames look horrendous to me.
glocks are not cheap but i agree, they're ugly as fuck and i don't like how they handle. the three you just named are, in no particular order, my three must-have handguns. new doesn't always equal best.

e/

oh yeah this place doesn't automerge. deal w/ it not like i post much anyway


So I'm thinking of buying a Mauser 98 of one kind or another this summer. Most of what I am seeing are either of Czech or Yugo manufacture, and that is fine for me. But Mitchells has me intrigued, since their "K98" is completely refurbished and is priced competitively with the Yugos that will come with some wear and a lot of cosmoline. Anyone have some tips or opinions?
DO NOT EVER BUY A MITCHELL'S MAUSER. EVER. DON'T EVEN ENTERTAIN THE THOUGHT OF DOING SO. SPREAD THE WORD TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
to paraphrase tfr's resident german milsurp expert, cyrano4747 (who i would trust innately with things like this):


edit: Because it gets asked so often, here is my canned response for "Why Mitchell's Mausers sucks donkey cock and you should never, ever buy anything from them." Seriously buy a K98k from anyone else in the world.

1) They're shady hucksters. For years they were selling "Rare Nazi K98k rifles discovered in a warehouse never used collector's condition!!!!" that were Yugo M48a Mausers. You know, made in the late 40s, about 3-5 years after Hitler punched his own ticket. Oh yeah, they were selling them for $500 when you could order the exact same Yugo M48 minus the bullshit "certificate of collector's authenticity" for $80 off AIM.

2) These days they actually do sell German K98ks - in a way. They take perfectly decent RC K98ks and then do a really heavy handed refinishing job on them. That in itself makes collectors cringe, but the REAL crime is that they bill them as "all matching." Sure, they're all matching - Mitchell's takes a lot of time and effort to grind off all the non-matching serial numbers from the small parts on the RC rifle and re-stamp them with the numbers from the receiver. The fonts are all wrong, there are no Waffenampts on those renumbered parts, and basically it's the same kind of grind-and-punch operation that dishonest gun dealers have been using for years to sell "all matching" rifles to people who don't know better. They sell them as matching collectibles when in fact they're mismatched rifles that don't even have value as those any more due to the thorough humping they took. Ten years from now RC mismatches will actually be worth something, probably the same $500-600 range that the old Romanian-captured K98k bolt mismatches that were imported in the mid-90s fetch today. The mitchells hump-jobs won't get even what an honest mismatch will. They have such a stigma that no collector will go near them.

Have you ever see those "American Heritage Mint" ads that run on late night TV where they try to sell you a "limited edition super-collectible" coin for $50? You know, the shit like the 9/11 commemorative coin where they paint a silver dollar with the twin towers, or the more recent ones where they've got Obama election commemorative stuff? Those $50 "collectible" coins that are made by the millions to sell to bored and gullible grandmas at 2 am and which have no real value? That's Mitchell's. They are hucksters who exist solely to sell "collectible guns that will appreciate in value" to the sort of people who have no fucking clue what they're buying and will trust anyone who prints up a glossy "certificate of authenticity and collectiblility" to toss in the box with the gun.

If TEOTWAWKI ever does come about while the rest of the world is busy looting, pillaging, and fighting t he unicorn menace a few thousand pissed off milsurpers will surround Mitchell's headquarters armed with a hell of a lot of K98ks, G/K43s, and the odd Stg44 and there WILL be blood that night.

[Warsaw]

But 7.65/7.62 is not the best anti-personnel round, as every country found out during World War I. The 1911 also was never intended for .38, so blah. I stay. :)

[TVTyrant]

Yeah but even the lead core ammo is great at penetrating light armor. And a .38 caliber 1911 would be cool. You get the advantage of bullet availability, with higher velocity higher pressure ability.

[Warsaw]

I have nothing against the bullet. It's just out of place in a 1911 in my opinion. I'll use it in a more appropriate firearm.

[Rorschach]

So I was at the range this week. Marine Corps' making the switch to ACOGs and they want all personnel proficient in its use, so now rifle qualifications are centered around using the optic instead of ironsights. Well, apparently you can request to use ironsights, but it has to be all the way through, and I didn't know that until well after I was finished. Anyway, the moral of the story is that the RCO makes accurate shots over a distance a wee bit more comfortable to take (Table 1 - 200, 300, 500m), but for the combat shooting (Table 2 - 75m) it's much more difficult because you have to find the target in the scope before you can take the shot, whether or not you're looking at it with your other eye. Ironsights you just pop up, place it over, and put 'em downrange, making it the practical choice for close-to-medium range (which in real life is exactly where it's going to count).

Would red dots be the happy medium we need? Convenience of ironsights with the simplicity of an illuminated reticle?

[Warsaw]

Red dots/holosights are the best of both worlds, I find. I guess you could use a magnifier in conjunction if you need it, but I find that set up to be clumsy.

[Cortexian]

Eotech with 4x magnifier is a better solution than the ACOG imo. Also works better with NV equipment from what I've read since the ACOG relies on natural light for the crosshair illumination. Just keep the magnifier on a flip-to-side (FTS) or quick detach mount, then you can keep it off in a pocket or flipped to the side. If you need to make a longer shot just flip it into position/attach it.

[Warsaw]

Better idea: maintain a strict qualifying standard so soldiers are still capable of making long range shots without assistance through magnification. Trust me, they'll be better off that way.

[PenGuin1362]

So I decided against the beretta and decided what better to do on the 100th year anniversary of the 1911 than to buy one :D some I'm considering going with the Kimber Custom II, not too bad of price for what I hear is a great gun. Also I found out Sage makes an EBR stock for the M1 Garand....O_o want :p, but not for a wwII era one, that would just taint it.

[Cortexian]

EBR stocks are bad, the MCS is lighter and all around better (I've fired M1A's in both platforms now).

KpiRmSMG0e8

Not available for the M1 Garand I don't think though. Not sure why you'd want a Garand when an M14 is a better Garand lol.

[hobojoe]

Because a Garand is vintage and awesome.

[Cortexian]

But as a gun, it's worse.

I guess I'm all about the performance.

[Warsaw]

MCS also looks a helluva lot better than EBR. EBR looks like it's going to snap in half.

[Cortexian]

Also, the MCS stock has a recoil reduction system built in. It's like a pneumatic shock or something that absorbs a lot of the recoil and then releases the tension slowly.

[Amit]

Also, the MCS stock has a recoil reduction system built in. It's like a pneumatic shock or something that absorbs a lot of the recoil and then releases the tension slowly.

That's what I noticed. I was wondering how those people were able to keep such good control of the weapon each time they pulled the trigger. At first I was confused. I thought it was like a 5-round M4 or something...until I saw the Bolt.

[PenGuin1362]

Cause Freelancer I have to buy all my shit and I don't have to money to buy an M1A and the stock to go with it. Plus the Lulz factor that would ensue from an EBR stock on an M1 garand is worth it.

Of course the M1A can out perform the M1 Garand, it's 60 years newer (this is assuming you buy it new >_>), especially if you get match internals. You also don't buy a Garand for the performance.

[Warsaw]

You buy Garands for their collector/sentimental value. That begs the question: what's the point of collector value if you are going to ruin it with a terrible EBR mod?

[Rorschach]

Better idea: maintain a strict qualifying standard so soldiers are still capable of making long range shots without assistance through magnification. Trust me, they'll be better off that way.
I'm pretty sure that sentiment is why the Corps has been holding fast to ironsights for universal qualification right up until about last year. I gotta say, I agree. If you're trying to land one killing shot from five football fields away, you shouldn't be taking that with an M16 anyway.

[PenGuin1362]

I mentioned earlier one shouldn't taint wwII era rifles with such a mod, but if you happen to have a newer, late 50's model than i think it'd be funny. I'm actually somewhat baffled by the fact they actually took the effort to make that stock in the first place O_o seems like a waste

[Amit]

Modifying the M1 Garand with EBR components is blasphemous. An excellent piece of history butchered is what that is.

These (http://sageebr.com/2010/07/05/m1-garand-ebr.aspx) are three versions of an EBR for the M1 Garand. The third one is the least ugly. Why for an M1, though when you can do it to the M14? It's more suited for the M14

[TVTyrant]

Unless you built your M1 on scrapped receiver etc. You can buy a barreled reciever from the CMP, and put the whole thing together yourself. I have also heard of mods that allow it to use old BAR magazines. Would be a neat experiment.

[Amit]

I believe they tested the BAR magazines on it back in WWII or around that time. The gun overheated when firing that many rounds in rapid succession.

[TVTyrant]

I've never heard that, but I recently read something online that said the feed rail in the magazine dont line up with the chamber properly, so it jams a lot. I wonder if you can attach a piece of metal to the trunnion to fix the allignment like you can on a Saiga.

[PenGuin1362]

That'd be kinda cool if you could get it to work, but at that point might as well buy an M14 lol. I actually saw a BAR for sale like a few weeks ago...it was only like $42,000 >_>

[Cortexian]

So I remember seeing pictures of this back when Halo came out, but I never saw this video:
vXLRYf9EV2Y

It's a lot bigger than I thought it was, I had never seen it pictured beside a human before. Bungie gone and fucked up the size with their version of it, but I guess it's technically not the same rifle.

Investigating legalities of purchasing in Canada...

[Warsaw]

You mean you never saw District 9? It featured quite prominently there.

Also, in Halo, you are a 7 foot super soldier. It looks about right when a marine is carrying it, though you certainly wouldn't be running around with one.

Also, NTW-14. NTW can swap out between 20mm or 14.5mm.

[Cortexian]

You're right, it is in District 9 but I had just figured that Neill Bomkamp just grabbed the Bungie prop for the movie. Looks more like the Halo version than the NTW-20.

Also, the Halo version looks a good 1/4 or even 1/3 smaller than the NTW-20... Even when compared to a non-augmented soldier like Romeo:
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/7642/halo3odstromeo.jpg

[Warsaw]

See, I was thinking Halo 1 (sarge to rifle ratio) when I said that. I remember it being bigger in the first game. In that picture, that magazine is way too small for a 14.5x114mm round...looks closer to 7.62 NATO.

Also, the 20mm and 14.5mm versions of the NTW look similar, but distinctly different. Or at least, they used to. I've seen the 14.5 with a round muzzle brake as well as the flat style.

[Cortexian]

That's quite a bit longer than most 7.62 magazines I've seen. Looks more like something around the 30-06 - 30-378 range.

[TVTyrant]

Maybe its a compact version :P

I mean, it is the future. Advancements in recoil management would be way beyond what we have now.

[Warsaw]

Maybe its a compact version :P

I mean, it is the future. Advancements in recoil management would be way beyond what we have now.

Even still, barrel diameter is too small for the huge AT round that it supposedly fires. That's a .50 right there in the picture.

Speaking of AT rounds, I always thought it was bull that the Elite's shields could deflect the sniper bullet at all, let alone multiple times. It's an anti-tank round, after all.

[TVTyrant]

Um, the shield is plasma after all. I mean, come on. Shits like 10000 degrees. Probably fazes the rounds out of existence instantly.

[Warsaw]

You saw that shit ricochet off. Ain't nothin' been sublimated.

[TVTyrant]

Yeah good point. damn video games and their lack of realism!

[Warsaw]

No, it's just frustrating when you know you have a huge gun and you shoot a guy in the head and his response is "Trololololol" as he runs behind cover to let his shields recharge.

[TVTyrant]

Yeah, I hate that bullshit. Especially since you're using a fucking 14.5x114. I mean Jesus.

I would love to see a semi auto 14.5 fo realz though.

[Cortexian]

See, they should have stuck with the 20mm in 2552. I'd love to see an Elite's shield repel that shit.

[TVTyrant]

Especially the HE round :iamafag:

[PenGuin1362]

when gun freaks play space shooters.

[Cortexian]

Shutup man! If I get a NTW-20 I'll be justifying the purchase as an anti-Tyrannosaurus invasion gun!!!!

[PenGuin1362]

good luck finding one. I did a quick search around places that usually have shit like that, got nothin. but it also wasn't that in depth either so who knows

[Warsaw]

See, they should have stuck with the 20mm in 2552. I'd love to see an Elite's shield repel that shit.

Actually, the 14.5mm is used for anti-armour and the 20mm is used for softer targets.

Also, without a Class III, the biggest you can own in the US is .50. :smith:

[Cortexian]

I think you have that backwards, the 20mm takes out armored targets more effectively seeing as how it explodes and you can pack more complicated gadgetry into the 20mm round. The 14.5mm is used for longer range shots, watch the video.

No restrictions like that up here apparently, the gun is Non-Restricted but ammo is impossible to import. Again though, like airsoft here in Canada, if you get your hands on some ammo you can do whatever you want with it legally.

[TVTyrant]

20mm is useful for taking out Humvees, ammunition stocks, and other lightly armored targets. The 14.5 is intended for use against more heavily armored items like Strykers, M3A3s, and such because the round is going much faster than that of the 20mm Hispano. Its also a better anti personnel round because of its solid bullet style rather than shell style of munitions. Bullet vs. Shell pretty much.

[Warsaw]

You also don't want to use an exploding round on a hard target because it won't do diddly squat on impact. You need a high velocity penetrator.

Explained here (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/large-caliber-sniper-rifles/safr/mechem-ntw-20-e.html).

[rossmum]

But as a gun, it's worse.

I guess I'm all about the performance.
by this logic why not buy a fa-

oh. canada. right.

well point stands; fal-lah hu ackbar, brothers http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/emot-jihad.gif

[Cortexian]

Bullet vs. Shell pretty much.
Oh so that's why tanks use AA shells instead of bullets.

I'm sure a specially designed 20mm shell would do a hell of a lot more than a 14.5mm bullet. All a bullet is going to do is ricochet around and POSSIBLY hit someone. A 20mm shell could be designed to penetrate and THEN explode (what I mean earlier). I'm pretty sure these exist...

[Warsaw]

An AA shell is either a hard penetrator core or a shaped explosive charge. A 20mm cannot do the shaped explosive charge. And the 20mm the NTW-20 uses is the Mauser variant; the 14.5mm has more muzzle energy. The 20mm Hispano version has more energy than either, but it's single shot.

You can't argue with what is. The 14.5 is used for AA, the 20 for softer targets. That's that.

[TVTyrant]

Freelancer the majority of tank shells use sabot ammo. You definently could design rifle specific ammo for the 20mm that would make it a better penetrator. You would use the sabot design. but, when your just firing the basic shell, it does not achieve the same kind of velocity, and the shape of the round does not have as high of a ballistic coefficient. Look at the rounds pictured. They are all round/flat nosed rounds. The 14.5 is using a humongous spitzer.

As far as the delayed HE rounds, yeah those totally exist. But the question is whether the magazine has enough length for you to equip such a shell with a VLD design.

[Cortexian]

Well, that's not that Warsaw. Like I said a 20mm round could be designed for AA purposes, it just isn't because they use 14.5mm for that. Even though most of the time you don't use man-portable rifles to destroy armor anyways so the entire thing is pretty moot.

[Warsaw]

That's what I said...

But I was also making the point that 20x85mm only does 27,000 J out the muzzle and 14.5 does 32,000 J out the muzzle. 20x110 does 37,000J. The last one is not a standard configuration, so it makes more sense to use the 14.5.

Also, a single well-placed shot using a SAPHEI round where the turret meets the chassis can disable a tank. It attracts a lot less attention than a missile.

[Cortexian]

I prefer the BC2 method.

Run up to them in a ghillie suit and plant C4 on them, then run away.

[Warsaw]

Good thing it doesn't work too well in real life, or we would be losing tanks left and right to insurgents.

[Cortexian]

That's because in real life your gunner does his job.

[Warsaw]

Then why are we dancing around this? A sniper will kill the gunner AND disable the tank likely without ever being seen.

[Cortexian]

Extremely doubtful, because snipers aren't usually deployed in anti-armor roles. It would be more than likely that a sniper trained on an NTW-20 or other silly powerful rifle wouldn't be available in those situations. It's just not a standard method of deployment, and I can only think of a handful of situations where it could actually be useful.

[Warsaw]

It's a South African weapon. Of course neither the US nor Canada would deploy as such, we don't have the equipment. A .50 is just not going to cut it.

Again, you saw District 9? Blomkamp is South African, so he might or might not know something about it, but they specifically and deliberately deployed that NTW as an AT weapon.

[PenGuin1362]

sooo uhhh, out of a super spontaneous splurg moment I went to the gun store and decided I really wanted an AR-15...so I bought a Rock River AR-15 carbine

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=219&CFID=138479032&CFTOKEN=45178542&jsessionid=f030298c760d42f43337

The overall feel is awesome, sturdy feeling construction. One guy who was buying something same time as me was saying he has one a loves it. Probably won't get to the range until 2 weeks from now :( but I look forward to it :)

[Warsaw]

Ha, that's awesome. It will shoot lovely.

[Cortexian]

Gotta love Rock River, they made a LAR-15 Pistol that was classed as an actual handgun here in Canada. Meaning its magazines are restricted to 10 rounds instead of 5 like all semi-auto rifles.

There's also no rule about using a magazine designed in one gun in another gun. So we just use LAR-15 10 round magazines in our guns that accept STANAG magazine styles now, lets us get around the semi-auto rifle 5 round limit legally. I love how stupid Canadian firearms laws are.

[TVTyrant]

Hurray for impulse buys!!!

Is it one with a removable handle assemble or is it a fixed handle?

[PenGuin1362]

Hurray! removable, it's the model shown in that image. Loving the pistol grip on it. I almost bought the 20" barrel one (m16 version) but after feeling that grip vs the standard AR-15 grip i was like...ehh fuck it gimme this one. Also I believe he said it has a 2 stage trigger, can anyone explain the advantage of this?

[Cortexian]

Odd, usually that means you can pull it half way or so for single shots, then press it all the way to the rear for full-auto.

[PenGuin1362]

Hmm. I could be mistaken, but the website also says the same thing. Can't wait to take this fucker to the range :D Unfortunately won't have time until the semesters over :(

[Cortexian]

I'm pretty sure the next gun I'm gonna buy is still gonna be a Benelli M4, cause it's so awesome. Not sure if I want the adjustable/collapsible stock or not...

[PenGuin1362]

Can't go wrong, found out not too long ago a friend of my recently bought one, he's in love with it (why wouldn't he be) Adjustable are nice but no sure what'd I'd go with either

[Cortexian]

I'm thinking I'll get the adjustable/collapsible one just so I have that capability as long as it's Non-Restricted. If it's shorter than 26" overall when collapsed it won't be Non-Restricted and I wouldn't be able to hunt with it.

I'd love a SpeedFeed III Tactical stock for it, which holds an extra four rounds in the stock (two per side) but they don't seem to make them for the Benelli M4...
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8566/speedfeed.jpg

I will definately get a side-saddle for it to hold an extra 6 rounds though. And I think I'll get the Dave's Metal Works 2 round extension tube kit and Speedbar (http://www.davesmetalworks.com/ben4.htm) as well.

[sleepy1212]

That's too bad if they don't, i have a tactical stock on my 870 which i thought might be weird. turns out hunting with it is a breeze.

[rossmum]

Odd, usually that means you can pull it half way or so for single shots, then press it all the way to the rear for full-auto.
no that's a steyr trigger. a two-stage trigger means you take up slack before it breaks, i.e. most military rifles i can think of. single stage means the trigger breaks immediately.

on that note, fuck single stage triggers are gay. i have no idea why dad loves them so much but if it's some kind of clever plot to make me not shoot hell out of his otherwise hella nice weatherby, it's working.

[Warsaw]

Enfields almost have a three stage, I swear...

[TVTyrant]

Ross is right. Although I disagree. I love good single stage. No creep, clean break, just put the plex on the target and squeeze. Its the ideal trigger style for hunting and long range target shooting.

[Cortexian]

I like it for handguns as well actually. Bit less safe I suppose but it'll make your shots more accurate.

Also, if you're Canadian and in this thread you better vote CPC!

[Amit]

The Conservatives are pro gun and so am I but I completely disagree with the way they run this country and the way they will be running it if they manage to get a majority. Fuck that. I don't care who you vote for, just don't vote Conservative. They are fucking this nation up a good deal.

[Warsaw]

Well, it's better than having two parties in a duopoly which both fuck your country over as bad as the other.

[TVTyrant]

...Or one thats comprised of elitist idiots and another thats comprised of billionaire idiots. Democrats v. Republicans go!

[Cortexian]

So you'd rather have Liberal or NDP in power? You know, the two parties that FORCED their own MP's to vote against abolition of the Non-Restricted firearms registry that's wasting like 8 million dollars a year? Yeah, when the CPC brought it to light that it should be abolished, some Liberal and NDP party members wanted it gone as well, then were suddenly all for having it stay in place when it came down to voting.

Sorry, I don't want a party in Government that just forces there members to do what they want instead of doing what's right. CPC has been doing nothing but good for this country IMO, we need to stop having a government of soccer moms. True that the CPC hasn't made all the best decisions, but no party ever will, they all suck horribly and I'd rather some not-shit party would appear and take over the country. CPC is the lesser of all evil parties running.

Also, Liberal and NDP stated that they plan to remove all Restricted and Prohibited firearms from the hands of existing owners if they get a majority government. Meaning they don't give a shit about your rights, meaning even if you were "grandfathered" into ownership of a Restricted or Prohibited gun here in Canada they would send the RCMP out to your house and steal it from you. And it would be sanctioned by the Government. Sorry, absolutely not.

[PenGuin1362]

what happened to guns >_>

[Cortexian]

Shooters' thread - guns - gun policies within governments.

makes sense to me.

[Amit]

Look, I'm not saying any of the other parties are awesome, but they sure as hell aren't as bad as the Tories. How you trust the Conservative party is completely beyond me. They are, without a doubt, the most controversial political party to ever take control of this nation. Brian Mulroney. Oh god, can't even talk about him. Now Harper on the other hand...well, let's just say he's not your saviour that will lead this country to social harmony.

As for controlling their members, every party does it. Yes, oh my gosh, the Tories do it too. Harper removed one of his own hand-picked cabinet ministers from the caucus. Apparently a "third party" tipped off Harper to some sort of wrong doing that Helena Guergis was involved in. Who this third party is, we don't know To this very day there has been NO evidence that remotely suggests that she did anything wrong. The RCMP, who were called on by Harper to investigate the matter, also found no conclusive evidence at all. This is especially suspicious as Harper is directly responsible for his ministers and in the past has defended her considerably. Now he's setting the dogs upon her? Something definitely doesn't add up and the conservatives won't tell us. They won't tell the people the truth.

It would truly be shitty situation should the RCMP be ordered to confiscate weapons that have been precious heirlooms for decades, I highly doubt any such policy would suceed in being put in place. The Firearms Act has essentially fallen on its face and the provincial governments have already noticed and pulled out. In the current voting climate, I doubt any of the four major parties will even grab a
majority government. They're all hated by the Canadian people.

Also, what was wrong with the name "Government of Canada?" Was it so hideous that the Tories had to go and rename it to the "Harper Government?" Never has this been done before.

I'm sorry Freelancer, but the rest of the people in this country don't devote as much as their lives to the sport of hunting and
marksmanship as you do and neither do I. I'd rather have a government that attempts to address the more relevant problems, such as the economy and unemployment, rather than one that just creates more issues and covers its shady movements in a shroud of secrecy. At least then, there wouldn't be huge, ongoing advertisement campaigns for employment programs that ended months ago. Go check out Rick Mercer's stuff. He's right on the money with the problems with each party. As a first time voter, I really have no fucking clue who to vote for.

[Warsaw]

Then vote for a minority party to take votes away from the majority parties. Or do a write-in, if you can.

[TVTyrant]

Holy crap. Canada has political problems too? I thought that was just America... ; )

[Cortexian]

It would truly be shitty situation should the RCMP be ordered to confiscate weapons that have been precious heirlooms for decades, I highly doubt any such policy would suceed in being put in place. The Firearms Act has essentially fallen on its face and the provincial governments have already noticed and pulled out. In the current voting climate, I doubt any of the four major parties will even grab a majority government. They're all hated by the Canadian people.
I'm just saying, the Liberals and NDP have stated that's what they want to do. Which is a huge change and infringement on our rights to boot. Even if such a bill doesn't pass,


Also, what was wrong with the name "Government of Canada?" Was it so hideous that the Tories had to go and rename it to the "Harper Government?" Never has this been done before.
Sounds like you've actually been listening to the TV ads (which are all full of completely biased and almost always incorrect information about everything from every party). The name of the Government was never officially changed, the "Harper Government" is a term the CPC coined themselves to call themselves as a campaign dealio.


I'm sorry Freelancer, but the rest of the people in this country don't devote as much as their lives to the sport of hunting and
marksmanship as you do and neither do I. I'd rather have a government that attempts to address the more relevant problems, such as the economy and unemployment, rather than one that just creates more issues and covers its shady movements in a shroud of secrecy. At least then, there wouldn't be huge, ongoing advertisement campaigns for employment programs that ended months ago. Go check out Rick Mercer's stuff. He's right on the money with the problems with each party. As a first time voter, I really have no fucking clue who to vote for.
The CPC is the only party that gives a shit about the state of our military. Expect our order of F-35's and all the helpful money being funneled into helping our troops be diverted to other causes. Not to mention that the CPC has decent plans to deal with economic and unemployment issues just like every other party. All the parties cover their shady movements in a shroud of secrecy, it suddenly becomes worse when the party in power does it.

Seven million Canadian gun owners will be voting CPC if they've heard anything to do with the Liberal and NDP stance on the subject. The CPC are also the only party willing to give airsoft a shot at becoming legitimate in Canada, all the other parties have a "looks-military-must-be-a-baby-killer" attitude towards airsoft. Heck, the CPC are the only people that give a damn about anything hunting/gun sport related.

[Amit]

Think about it. Do we really need 65 F-35 JSFs? No. The CF-18's have done a good enough job. While the military still needs funding, such a large portion of funding should not go to the military. We aren't involved in multiple wars.

[Cortexian]

So my post about needing F-35's was lost in the forum upgrade, suffice to say that yes, we really do need them. The CF-18's are 40 years old and we only have like 28 that actually fly, the rest are down for maintenance/mothballed for parts.

[Warsaw]

My post that came before yours was also lost. Tl;dr was that it's never a good idea to drop all of your money into one basket, but that there is something to be said for having a strong military for the sake of deterrence. Case in point: if the USA left NATO, NATO would not know what to do with itself in its present state.

[TVTyrant]

Warsaw it appears as if we are being ignored in this thread. :(

[Amit]

I had another post here describing the situation with the F-35's before the "update" removed it. In short, I have no problem with 35-40 F-35's but 65 is just overkill. There won't be enough uses for those kind of planes for Canada. There's virtually no air to maintain superiority in except Canadian airspace. Canada hasn't been in a major air conflict since WWII; it's been mainly bombing runs for the past 50 years. Gone are the days where developed nations try to scare each other with an arms race.

Freelancer is right that The F-18's need to be replaced, but the F-35 is not the proper fighter to be replacing it with. A single engine stealth aircraft that has performance that isn't fitting of the high price point. $9 billion for the aircraft alone and another $9 billion for maintenance (excluding weapons). It wouldn't be such a waste if so many weren't being purchased all at one time. Maybe if they started off with half of the number they are going to purchase and then slowly phase out the rest of the F-18's. On top of that, this deal is single-sourced. There is no competition whatsoever to challenge the F-35. These are not good decisions being made.




Sounds like you've actually been listening to the TV ads (which are all full of completely biased and almost always incorrect information about everything from every party). The name of the Government was never officially changed, the "Harper Government" is a term the CPC coined themselves to call themselves as a campaign dealio.

Nope. In federal communications, it is a requirement to say the Harper Government or you may be at risk for losing your job. When the conservative party came back in power in 2006, some senior government dude was fired for not saying "Canada's New Government." Really? Harper feels like he owns the country. The guy was reinstated almost 2 years later, though, when the name was changed back to "Government of Canada." Of course nobody will go against the "Harper Government" now for they fear they will be fired.



The CPC is the only party that gives a shit about the state of our military. Expect our order of F-35's and all the helpful money being funneled into helping our troops be diverted to other causes.


Diverted to other causes? You bet. More relevant causes and helpful. The Liberals will provide $1000 for 4 years to high school and post secondary students to help cover rising tuition fees. $1500/year for low income families. I am a student and tuition fees are ridiculous so this appeals to me. I will have to thoroughly examine their intentions in addition to the other parties before I make a decision, though.

[Cortexian]

Voted CPC yesterday.

The reason the F-35's cost so much is because they're generation 5 fighters, the electronics and avionics in these things is crazy. My friend who's at the Royal Military College of Canada working to become an Aerospace Engineer told me that they have there own proprietary wireless network package for cyber warfare and communications and such. He even said that one plane can be piloted from another over this wireless link, one pilot gives control to another in a different plane or on the ground in a flight-sim style station and that person can take over. He said we have some plans to have ground based pilots on-duty for all deployed aircraft, if the pilot has some kind of medical issues that prevent him from flying or needs to eject for some reason the ground controller can take over and fly the plane home. Not sure how accurate all of this is though.

Diverting funding that keeps people alive so you can get through school easier, no thanks.

[Warsaw]

Pssst, Amit, the F-35 is a multi-role fighter like the F/A-18. It is a more than suitable replacement. The F-22 is the air superiority fighter, not the JSF.

Anyways, fuck politics, needz moar gunz.

So I've decided that come Christmas, I am going to buy a Ruger Mark III. Prefereably a competition-grade model. They are cheap to shoot, fun to shoot, extremely reliable, and are very solid in the hand. You just can't go wrong with a Ruger.

[TVTyrant]

Wait there is a Mark III now? I thought it was the Mark II...

[Amit]

Diverting funding that keeps people alive so you can get through school easier, no thanks.

These fighters don't directly keep people alive like incubators in a hospital. Also, the money won't help me get through school easier, it helps be pay for the ridiculous fees that have been added on since the Conservatives came back in power. Tuition has been raised 20% in most institutions since Harper became PM. He doesn't give a shit about us. If you were in post-secondary school you would see that.

It's not like I'm saying that we shouldn't buy them at all. I'm saying by them in smaller quantities so it doesn't hit the taxpayers so much. Also, recent developments by Lockheed-Martin report that there are considerable increases in price. So, that 2001 estimate of $9 billion for the fighters is looking more like $24 billion.

I agree, with Warsaw, though. Politics suck. I'll leave the rest of it out of this thread since the subject of guns is almost conservative in nature.

[TVTyrant]

Lol Amit's party sounds like Obama.

[Warsaw]

Wait there is a Mark III now? I thought it was the Mark II...

Yeah. Mark II came out more than 50 years ago, I believe. I have a friend who has a 40 year old one and it's very well-used. However, it's in perfect working order and most (95%) of the bluing is still intact. I thought there was a Mk. IV but it appears that I was mistaken. Gonna try and grab mine at a gun show because they usually have a better line-up of Ruger models. It is also irrelevant whether or not you buy it new, because like I said you can't really go wrong with one at all.

[Amit]

Lol Amit's party sounds like Obama.

Let me make this clear: I don't like or support any political party beyond voting for the one that will be more likely to fix this nation's problems while reducing the amount of new ones.

[Cortexian]

Let me make this clear: I don't like or support any political party beyond voting for the one that will be more likely to fix this nation's problems while reducing the amount of new ones.
That's going to be a problem, since every single thing you "fix" will cause another "problem". I think you should just write your own name on the ballot and put check-marks (not X's) in all the other options.

Also, new fighters keep our pilots alive more directly than an incubator. And I'm taking a part-time post secondary course while upgrading a final high-school course at the same time, it's a fucked up curriculum I know, but the course I'm upgrading has -100% to do with the post-secondary course I'm taking. Anyhow, point is that the price for the course seems more than reasonable. I have a part-time job right now though, and have had on and off full-time jobs for 3 years now so I have a decent amount of financial backing for myself in addition to the Education-fund my parents started when I was born.

I'm still living at home though, not sure about you. So my home expense is A LOT less then what most people pay for in post-secondary.

[Warsaw]

Can we drop it? Pretty please? Take it to PMs maybe? I want to talk about shooty thingies in here.

[Cortexian]

Oh right, I was going to say in that post that I'm also going to Silver Willow (http://www.silverwillow.ca/index.html) to run some Sporting Clays on Thursday with a friend. Taking my Super Black Eagle, and we'll share it since he's unlicensed and has no guns of his own. Got to put the 250 shells I bought to work.

Going to take my GoPro HD with me to try filming some of it.

[Warsaw]

Anything in Canadian law preventing you guys from reloading your own ammunition? If not, get some brass shells so you can always have inexpensive shotgun ammunition to shoot. Up front cost is large, but the long term payoff is good if you use shotguns a lot.

[TVTyrant]

You don't even need to use brass. Just reload your shells. Great way to save money while shooting. I reload my .30-06 now, and since I've saved like every round of it I have ever fired, I have 200+ free pieces of brass to reload.

[Warsaw]

Hard to reload a flattened or punctured shell...XD

But that's the great thing about shotguns. If you have the brass end-piece, you can make a new cartridge using cardboard, cork, and your reloading material and it will be just fine. It's amazing how versatile the platform is.

[TVTyrant]

Well that's low pressure, high caliber firearms for you. You can get away with lots of shit.

[Cortexian]

Got the 250 shells for $50, so not bad. And reloading is only cheaper until you start shooting more because your ammunition costs less.

[Warsaw]

Well...that's still going to cost less than shooting more new ammunition.

[Cortexian]

So not doing sporting clays today after-all. Weather decided to start snowing and gusting again, may just go out to a "plinking range" instead... Depends what weather looks like when my friend gets here.

[Amit]

So not doing sporting clays today after-all. Weather decided to start snowing and gusting again, may just go out to a "plinking range" instead... Depends what weather looks like when my friend gets here.

Yeah, the weather is pretty shit even around these parts. No snow for the past two weeks, but plenty of thunderstorms and cold winds when it isn't raining. Then you get that random day where it's warm as fuck, but it doesn't last long enough to do anything fun :smith:

[PenGuin1362]

Taking my lovely new AR-15 out on sunday ^_^ will upload some videos/pictures if anyone cares to see

[Warsaw]

Yeah, the weather is pretty shit even around these parts. No snow for the past two weeks, but plenty of thunderstorms and cold winds when it isn't raining. Then you get that random day where it's warm as fuck, but it doesn't last long enough to do anything fun :smith:

Fuck your thunderstorms, I got tornadoes.... :v:

Alabama got leveled, Georgia had it pretty bad, and parts of VA had tornado touch-downs too.

[rossmum]

So my post about needing F-35's was lost in the forum upgrade, suffice to say that yes, we really do need them. The CF-18's are 40 years old and we only have like 28 that actually fly, the rest are down for maintenance/mothballed for parts.
the f-35 is a piece of shit. since the americans won't play ball and sell their closest allies the f-22, we all ought to start buying planes off the russians. the su-35 is a fucking wicked bit of kit and cheap, too. plus it works no matter what, like all things russian.

the almost godlike ethos people attribute the f-35 with is one thing, to see the military doing the same makes me want to rip my fucking hair out. now we're stuck with a handful of borrowed usn f/a-18es until the f-35 arrives, since the project is running so far behind and seems about as stable as a one-legged fucking centipede. that's not even considering the sheer mind-numbing idiocy (in my humble grunt opinion) of trying to replace the fastest, longest-ranging strike aircraft in the entire asia pacific with a gimped stealth plane we'll probably have half as many of and that has a fraction of the range and payload. as much as i lord the f-111 over everything else yes, it did need to be retired... but it should've been replaced with an equally capable aircraft. again, we should've bought from the russians, they do strike pretty well.


Taking my lovely new AR-15 out on sunday ^_^ will upload some videos/pictures if anyone cares to see
i'd care more if it was a retro build (xm16e1 or early m16a1), but sure why not

going shooting this weekend if the weather holds up. dad's been singing the praises of his new wolf eyes light nonstop so no doubt he'll insist on showing me how good it is. plenty of rabbits about so why the hell not.

[TVTyrant]

You better eat those rabbits.

[Warsaw]

@Ross: Lockheed-Martin has no idea how to run a program. To give you an idea, their idea of motivating their employees is to tell them that if they don't meet their deadlines, the CEO is not going to get his stock options. And then they fire all the best engineers because they are too expensive to maintain. It's not the plane, it's the company.

Also, yeah. Hunting for sport is sick. You better eat them.

[TVTyrant]

Honestly I have killed lots of rabbits and they taste great. Especially fried as fritters or stewed. The meat is kind of tough, but if you tenderize properly and everything, it turns out really well.

[Cortexian]

Decided to take a chance since the weather lightened up around noon here and stopped snowing (was about 8C out anyway). By the time we got to the range it had completely stopped, my buddy took a scope to the eye so hard from some 30-06 recoil that he needs stitches (Ross saw the pic). We did some clay shooting as well, but not nearly as cool as sporting clays. Got some video of the sporting clays encoding uploading to YouTube.

[Warsaw]

It's funny to consider that while you are getting 8 C weather, I am getting 28C weather. Especially funny because our two countries are adjacent. Geography and meteorology is whack, man. A few thousand miles further or closer to the sun makes the difference between burning hot and freezing cold.

Also, scope bite. Ouch. Negligent accident or he just didn't know?

[Cortexian]

He's a new shooter, doesn't have a license or anything so he was just shooting under my supervision which is legal here. He has only been out once before with us, he shot my other friend's father's Weatherby 30-378 without incident but that thing has a huge recoil-reducing muzzle-break. It was on his second or third shot on that gun, I think he just got to friendly with the scope.

You can tell he's new in the video I'm uploading, standing straight up/leaning away from the shotgun when we were shooting clays a few times. He actually did REALLY well for this being his first time shooting clays. We just went and recovered a bunch of unbroken clays from down-range and tossed them by hand haha, who buys these things? We used like 50 and found them all under 5 minutes of looking, there were a ton more.

[Warsaw]

I have only shot clays once, and I was 12. I was also just learning how to shoot left-handed at the time, so I sucked big time. :v: I'd love to do it again.

[Cortexian]

BYlzY2-kKlA

[TVTyrant]

I've been bumped in the eye with scopes before. Luckily never been cut.

[Warsaw]

Heh. That looked like a blast.

[TVTyrant]

Heh. That looked like a blast.
Oh, look who thinks hes punny.

[sleepy1212]

I've been bumped in the eye with scopes before. Luckily never been cut.

I got one (idiot mark) shooting my little brother's junior 7mm-08 several years ago. He had retarded relief on it, probably to make up for bulky coats. shit hurt like hell, bled a little but mostly the headache afterward hurt.

[Warsaw]

Oh, look who thinks hes punny.

Thought never crossed my mind. That makes me chuckle now that you pointed it out.

[Cortexian]

Heh. That looked like a blast.
I think the best part was just after I shut the camera off, all the hail that started coming down hitting all the spent hollow shells on the ground. Sounded like a really intense rain-stick type deal, was like a victory soundtrack heh.

I'm def going to go shoot clays once a month now if I can manage it, at least a box worth of shells. It's really fun, and I'm sure that once I actually get out to the sporting clays range it'll just intensify the passion. I've applied at a few different hunting/sporting places that sell firearms/clays/reloading tools/ammo/etc so if I get hired I'll probably get into shooting a lot more. I like clays a lot more than just going to the range and plinking targets because they're moving targets, and not always the same trajectory and such.

[Warsaw]

Anything that is inherently more challenging is also inherently more fun. That's why I prefer black-powder shooting with muskets and archery over simple plinking with my Enfield.

[Cortexian]

Bleh, I don't like black-powder at all really. To slow for me, would rather do IPSC, IDPA, and 3 Gun stuff myself for a challenge instead of just trying to reload a black-powder rifle... I've never been a fan of archery and don't have much experience with it, so I can't comment for that area.

[rossmum]

Also, yeah. Hunting for sport is sick. You better eat them.
rabbits are an exceptionally destructive invasive species and my parents have a farm. it's not hunting for sport.

in fact, the only things i have killed have been invasive pests.

[PenGuin1362]

also a legitimate reason. I think they mostly mean people who literally just hunt for fun and do nothing with the actual kill.

[TVTyrant]

rabbits are an exceptionally destructive invasive species and my parents have a farm. it's not hunting for sport.

in fact, the only things i have killed have been invasive pests.

I'm totally cool with pest control and not eating kills. I'm just not much of a sport killer kind of guy. As long as it serves a purpose its cool.

[Warsaw]

Bleh, I don't like black-powder at all really. To slow for me, would rather do IPSC, IDPA, and 3 Gun stuff myself for a challenge instead of just trying to reload a black-powder rifle... I've never been a fan of archery and don't have much experience with it, so I can't comment for that area.

It's not just the reloading. It's also about knowing your weapon so well that you can place accurate shots consistently with an inherently inaccurate system. If you can do it with minié balls, great. If you can do it with round balls, you are a god.

[rossmum]

I'm totally cool with pest control and not eating kills. I'm just not much of a sport killer kind of guy. As long as it serves a purpose its cool.
yeah, same here.

seems like hunting purely for sport is on the way out. i'm perfectly fine with that, i don't like killing things even when it's necessary.

[Cortexian]

When I started hunting I didn't even know "sport hunting" existed, I couldn't possibly imaging why anyone would go to the effort of learning to hunt just to shoot an animal. There's a difference between shooting and hunting, if you just want to shoot animals, go to the fucking range and get an animal shaped target.

Sport hunting is disgusting, trophy hunting is even more disgusting. If you're not going to make use of most of the animal then why kill it at all. If it were cheaper I'd save all the furs and pelts from the animals we kill as well, they'd make great extreme-cold weather clothing/rugs/slippers/etc. We mainly hunt because we like wild-meat and a moose made into steak can save a good $1,000 or so on buying good steaks from a store over the course of a year, or it could save a lot on hamburger if you make it into that. If you're not hunting for AT LEAST the meat then you shouldn't be hunting IMO.

I'll still go shooting varmints and pest animals every now and then. Gophers/Rabbits/Coyotes and the like, but only if it's on private land where I've been given permission and encouraged to do so by the land-owner. In fact, on the ranch we hunt at we've been instructed to kill any wolves we see by the land owner. I love wolves, and I think they're a very majestic and awesome wild hunter... The group I hunt with share that opinion and we almost have an understanding with the pack on the land we hunt on. I swear that they're so used to our vehicle now that they don't run from us, they've actually bedded down around our vehicle one time after we went for a walk-about and didn't show us any hostility when we returned. The land owner doesn't believe us, they run from him and his vehicle now since he and his ranch-hands shoot them down to prevent them eating his cattle...

[paladin]

I guess i should show you guys this
http://image.odinseye.org/images/squirrelar.jpg

or this <3 vacation homes

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pR-xfUxThKU/Sm0_VyGJ1cI/AAAAAAAAAZk/z2xPnYwlL2s/s400/Trophy+Nic+Elephant.JPG

[TVTyrant]

LOL @ the massive prairie dog collection.

[Cortexian]

I'm not against mounting/stuffing animals. That's not sport shooting really, you're still using most of the animal for something decently productive. That said, if you do it to sell the mounts and don't use the meat from the kill as well you're a giant dick.

If I ever get a monster Deer/Elk/Moose I'll definitely get its head mounted. Well, maybe just antlers for Elk/Moose since they're so huge and space would be a concern for me.

[TVTyrant]

If I ever drop a 10x10 I will definitely have it mounted. Plus delicious deer steak.

[rossmum]

we have an antelope mounted but dad ate the rest so its cool. he looks so peaceful too. i used to just go chill under him as a kid.

we also have a bearskin rug. he tried to eat dad and several of dad's friends. not one to waste a good opportunity, dad had him made into a rug.

[PenGuin1362]

Besides, most people who mount actually use the meat anyway, then just show off the mount to be like yeah, I'm baller, No big deal.

tbh, I've never hunted. My grandpa did, so does my uncle but I've personally never gone. I just like to shoot random shit :D If I was offered the opportunity I'd probably go, but not going to go out of my way

[Cortexian]

Political gun discussion:

So Conservatives won a majority government, lets get this useless $8,000,000/year Non-Restricted long-gun registry outta here and put the money towards something useful!

[PenGuin1362]

So took the Ar-15 out for a spin yesterday. It was making 1"groups at 100 yards. Going to try some better grade ammo next time, I hear you can get it down to 3/4"

Also in the process of going OD green :p (and tacticool >_>) right now have a mil-spec buffer tube with a Mapul CTR stock in OD, Magpul Pmags in green, and a Hogue grip in OD. Next gettin the rail, Magpul AFG 2, and a Magpul rear flip sight

[TVTyrant]

What sights are you running? What model/company? What ammo were you using? I WANT DETAILS MAN!!!!

[PenGuin1362]

Rock River Arms LAR-15 Elite CAR A4. Standard Iron sights. American Eagle .223 55 grain FMJ

[TVTyrant]

Rock River is awesome. I really want one of those for an AR. Does it come with the rear sight or do you use a rail mounted one?

[PenGuin1362]

I had to get a rail mounted standard AR sight (carry handle) they usually come without the sights unless you special order it from the website. I'm upgrading to a magpul sight though. I'd strongly recommend it. I've only put 100 rounds through so far but it was accurate and felt amazing, great feed too from the magpul mags

e: also (one reason I got one) I've heard nothing but praise for rock river from so many people.

[Cortexian]

If you're going OD for your accessories you should do something like the Canadian Forces do:
http://www.casr.ca/doc-npp-c8a3-rear-sight-1.jpg

That amount of OD-on-black looks great IMO, anything more is overkill unless you're going to paint the entire gun some type of camo or something. Go with black optics instead of the tan versions they have shown. The tan versions shown for that C8A3 are only issued to CANSOFCOM (special forces) members going into appropriate environments, in which case all the green furniture is replaced with tan as well.

Note the awesome front rails we use for accessories.

[PenGuin1362]

TIGER CAMO AR-15 FOR ALL MY HEADSHOTZZZZ.....

Yeah that's basically the setup I'm going for. I love the look of OD The front end is going to be a rail with the OD rubber rail covers. The sight I'm getting is the Magpul rear flip sight. I want to get an EOTech (would do black if i got one) but they're so much money and since I'm not actually needing this for combat I can't justify the $500+ price just yet :( eventually I'll get one...and maybe one day an ACOG just cause I can...despite the fact it costs more than the actual gun did >_> *dream*

[Cortexian]

If you want to blow money on an optic get an ELCAN Specter DR (http://www.armament.com/SpecterDR_Dual_Role_Optical_Sight.pdf). They retail around $1800 last time I checked.

[Warsaw]

That is the most overpriced piece of optical hardware I've ever seen. I'll bet it uses an electrically actuated expanding polymer lens to achieve that effect. Saw the tech used on "adjustable" glasses meant to replace the sets of reading and everyday glasses. If it's not that, then it's merely another lens being thrown into position. Ugh.

[PenGuin1362]

I like the ACOg more, plus it was designed entirely around the AR-15

[TVTyrant]

I like cheap stuff so I would stay with the original iron sights. Not cool I know, but cost effective.

[PenGuin1362]

There's something so satisfying about nailing that X at 100 yards with bare iron sights though. You feel somewhat badass

[paladin]

Iron sights are fun and all, and 1" isnt bad depending on your ammo, but if you dont have this (http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TA31F-RMR)
youre not shooting your ar15 right. 10 rounds @350yds <1"

350 yrds is pushing a .223 tho even with the best ammunition. Im in the process of getting a lar8 .308 (http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=400)

[Warsaw]

Nailing targets at 400 yards with irons has one of the most awesome feelings ever. Especially when you had to aim off-centre to accomplish the feat.

[Amit]

The LAR-8 is a pretty sexy looking gun.

[paladin]

its damn sexy

[Cortexian]

Just to point out, actual military and LE get Elcan products SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than retail. I've heard $500 for people that can provide proof of membership, obviously official military supply channels run even cheaper than that.

The Specter DR is replacing the ACOG in a lot of military units that are given the freedom to change optics readily. I know lots of Canadian Forces personal are picking them up personally at the $500 point before going to the sandbox and then selling them for cheaper then that to new deployments if they come back in working order. I've seen a ton of photos of U.S.A forces rocking the Specter DR on AR's to miniguns.

[TVTyrant]

Just to point out, actual military and LE get Elcan products SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than retail. I've heard $500 for people that can provide proof of membership, obviously official military supply channels run even cheaper than that.

The Specter DR is replacing the ACOG in a lot of military units that are given the freedom to change optics readily. I know lots of Canadian Forces personal are picking them up personally at the $500 point before going to the sandbox and then selling them for cheaper then that to new deployments if they come back in working order. I've seen a ton of photos of U.S.A forces rocking the Specter DR on AR's to miniguns.
I bet the actual armed forces pay full price and they are just giving soldiers a discount to be nice.

[Warsaw]

its damn sexy

It's an AR-10. Big whoop. AR-10s were sexier back when they were built with bakelite pieces (http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as16/ar10.jpg). A sexy gun is Kel-Tec's RFB.

[PenGuin1362]

meh, opinions. i like the LAR-8 also freenlancer a lot of US forces do use it, but I prefer the ACOG. Also got a mil-spec buffer tube, and the CTR stock on :D also green hogue grip. Sorry for the shit image quality, will get better images when its all finished

http://i.imgur.com/h25db.jpg

[TVTyrant]

meh, opinions. i like the LAR-8 also freenlancer a lot of US forces do use it, but I prefer the ACOG. Also got a mil-spec buffer tube, and the CTR stock on :D also green hogue grip. Sorry for the shit image quality, will get better images when its all finished

http://i.imgur.com/h25db.jpg
Looks pretty cool that way. Unless you want a rail you should just leave it the way it is. Looks neat.

[PenGuin1362]

I want a rail. It looks bad ass :p plus I want more green but I don't really like the look of the all green polymer heat shield, I like black rails with green covers. and I want the magpul fore grip

[Cortexian]

Get a Magpul MOE grip in OD instead of a standard RIS. You can put the rails you need onto the MOE from there.

Also:
xfojMy1MWok

[TVTyrant]

How much does one of those cost?

[paladin]

thats cool, but i dont abuse my firearms

[CabooseJr]

Can I have one of those?

[Cortexian]

https://danieldefense.com/rifles.html

$1,368 - $2,999

[Warsaw]

Yeah, doing what AKs have been doing since 1946!


Love how all these manufacturers of M4 rehashes have this reliability inferiority complex going.

[TVTyrant]

Yeah, doing what AKs have been doing since 1946!


Love how all these manufacturers of M4 rehashes have this reliability inferiority complex going.
Because people choose to rely on them for home defense/ property protection/ assassination plots need them to not jam M16A1 style.

[Amit]

It's an AR-10. Big whoop. AR-10s were sexier back when they were built with bakelite pieces (http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as16/ar10.jpg). A sexy gun is Kel-Tec's RFB.

I want that RFB. NAO.


I want a rail. It looks bad ass :p plus I want more green but I don't really like the look of the all green polymer heat shield, I like black rails with green covers. and I want the magpul fore grip

Took the words right out of my mouth. Heatshield/handguard needs more OD but not fully. I like the sound of black rails.

Maybe get something like this:

http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_106_286&products_id=34438
http://www.airsoftpost.com/images/large/Kit_GG_M4RIS_S_BK_lg.jpg

And then put these OD rail covers on it.

http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_104&products_id=28560
http://www.airsoftpost.com/images/large/RC_KA_RC_10O_lg.jpg

[Cortexian]

Amit this is the shooters thread not the airsoft thread.

Unless you're just using that as reference, then yeah it's a great idea. I actually like a good free-float RIS with rail covers than the Magpul MOE handguard.

[Amit]

Yeah, I don't know any real websites for actual gear so I used Evike for quick reference for the style of rails and cover.

[TVTyrant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQEi0adVhgo&feature=player_profilepage

A really interesting video to me since I am always thinking about potential survival scenarios. The guy (who has some nutso political beliefs) picked three guns to take in an immediate threat scenario and I thought his choices were interesting.

So basically what guns would YOU guys take? List two long arms and a sidearm you would prefer and why.

1. Folding AK-Id take an AK because I dont think scopes of any sort are something I want/need in a grab and go weapons scenario. The 7.62 is just as available in the US as the 5.56. The weapon is super dependable, and can be pretty accurate if you are a good operator.
2. Pump Shotgun-Versatility, power, options. Pretty much why you would buy a shotgun at all.
3. 357 Revolver-More power than a 9mm, ammo a plenty, more multi purpose, and you don't have to take care of it (in my admittedly limited experience) like a semi auto. Dependability is a big plus to me.

Also I honestly think having one of these is crazy. Your being paranoid if you actually have a set-up like this. Or an international criminal.

[Cortexian]

G36K - durable as hell, extremely accurate, integrated optic and iron sights, lightweight. Mags aren't STANAG but I'd most likely get an adapter for that if I owned a G36.

Benelli M4 - Extremely dynamic and reliable semi-automatic shotgun.

USP .45 - legendary H&K reliability and accuracy like the G36K, 45 is fairly common of a round.

[TVTyrant]

I'd say (in the US anyways) that the 45 is like third most common behind 9mm and 357/38 (I count it as one chambering, there is not point in owning one that doesn't shoot both).

[PenGuin1362]

http://i.imgur.com/dxiAk.jpg

be jealous for a little bit :p that's all

[rossmum]

Because people choose to rely on them for home defense/ property protection/ assassination plots need them to not jam M16A1 style.
nothing inherently wrong with the m16a1. in fact i will say right here, right now, that the a1 is the best variant and will not be topped. burst fire is fucking stupid as shit unless it's an an-94 and aside from replacing the pencil barrel with a heavy nothing significant has been done to improve the rifle at all. the m16a1 was as reliable as the newest of a4s, it was the earlier xm16e1 and lack of cleaning kits and training which caused problems. pretty much all the bugs were ironed out when the a1 arrived.

e/


3. 357 Revolver-More power than a 9mm, ammo a plenty, more multi purpose, and you don't have to take care of it (in my admittedly limited experience) like a semi auto. Dependability is a big plus to me.
don't buy into that '9mm won't save you' crap. i used to as well, hell a lot of people do, but it's absolute bollocks. 9mm is more than adequate in nearly every situation and .357 magnum is overkill. you could load .38 spc but then you lose the entire point of buying a .357 mag in the first place. revolvers are simple to operate on the face of it but are a clockwork nightmare to detail strip in case of deep cleaning or repairs. go with a proven semiauto - a browning hi-power or 1911 is more than enough. some newer pistols are good too but really have done little or nothing to improve over the aforementioned. find something reliable and reasonably accurate that fits your hand and roll with that.

stick to 9mm para or .45, personally i could go either way depending on the gun (.45 out of a 1911 is really soft recoil-wise, while 9mm is snappy out of some guns). calibres like .40 s&w in particular are a total gimmick which owes its entire existence to people being idiots and believing only a calibre which is NO LESS THAN FO-TAY will be effective; it's total bollocks and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

if, for whatever reason, you expect to need some kind of ap capability (space nazis take over the us government???) then 7.62x25 tok is good and very cheap

[rossmum]

ross' ideal shit hitting the fan setup:

ak-74m, preferably with a 1p29 mounted. can't go wrong with this rifle. reasonable accuracy, supreme reliability, it literally does not climb even in full auto and 5.45x39 is a pretty nasty round. the 74m variant has lighter and sturdier polymer furniture and a folding stock without the discomfort of the skeleton folder on the aks-74 model. the 1p29 is an excellent optic for both snap and aimed shots at all ranges and the mounting clears the irons in case the optics are damaged or it's too up close and personal for them to be any use.

second long arm would depend what's going on. ideally i'd have some kind of stash somewhere so i could switch between a decent shotgun and a 'reach out and touch things' rifle as necessary.

sidearm - browning hi-power or 1911. would depend what's going on, they're both excellent pistols.

ross' actual shit hitting the fan setup:

lee-enfield no.4 mk.1. my country blows.

that said, it is a good rifle, and it mounts a hella fuckoff bayonet...

/e

reply is not edit

whatever. deal w/ it

[TVTyrant]

I picked 357 because you can kill deer/bears/elk with it at close range. Im not worried about a 9mms power for humans. If I absolutely need three guns I want them to be the most versatile dependable firearms I can use.
I wouldn't pick a 44 mag because that is too much. I have fired one (live in Mericuh and Uncle has one) and that shit is too uncomfortable and heavy for a sidearm.

Ross I like the 1911 pick.

Your right on the M16A1, I meant a XM16E1.

[Cortexian]

My actual shit-fan-hitting setup:
• Browning BAR Long Track .30-06 / Thompson/Center Venture .30-06 / Old Remington 700 .308 carbine (short 18.5" barrel)
• Benelli Super Black Eagle 12 ga.
• Sig Sauer P226R 9mm

Put the Sig on there because its actually really fun to shoot and my dad and I both just got our Restricted firearms licenses here in Canada. Probably going to pick up our own instead of renting the loaner one at the range. A LOT cheaper than a USP. Also used by the Canadian Forces as an alternative to the good old Browning High Power.

[sleepy1212]

you guys are retarded.

1. 10/22 defense/utility.
2. .38 only pistol i own
3. 870 12ga defense

light, easy to pack, all common ammo, all useful for more than invading the Thunderdome

[TVTyrant]

you guys are retarded.

1. 10/22 defense/utility.
2. .38 only pistol i own
3. 870 12ga defense

light, easy to pack, all common ammo, all useful for more than invading the Thunderdome
This is why I picked an AKM, a Shotgun, and a 357. They are all useful for hunting, fighting, and are extremely durable reliable tools.

[Warsaw]

I would take:

1. A .22 Ruger Mk. III - .22 is so ubiquitous and easy to make that you would have to be insane to not include a single firearm that uses it.

2. M1897 shotgun - reliable, easy to fix, 12 ga., slam fire

3. .223 or .308 R700 rifle - sometimes, you just need the range to be safe. Also, if you break a Mauser action, you are a dumbfuck.

I favour extreme reliability over firepower. Your (general) semi-automatic bullshit isn't going to help you much when a critical part breaks and there is no replacement. It also isn't going to help you when the guy with the bolt-action Winchester magnum simply kills you from afar. And make no mistake, no semi is as accurate or durable as a bolter and rapid fire is useless if it skews your aim even more. This is survival: shoot first, ask questions later.

[Cortexian]

light, easy to pack, all common ammo, all useful for more than invading the Thunderdome
Sounds like the same reasons I picked the guns I did.

[sleepy1212]

Sounds like the same reasons I picked the guns I did.

just stirring things up :holy:


.22 is so ubiquitous and easy to make that you would have to be insane to not include a single firearm that uses it.

McCandless killed a moose with one. Hell, even JWR says "take the .22"

[Warsaw]

^
Exactly. You can also carry tons of the shit on you for the same weight in anything larger. Such a useful and under-appreciated round.

[Cortexian]

.223 / 5.56 isn't that much heavier than .22 LR and will still do the job. Probably even more common nowadays than .22 LR...

[paladin]

grain size is really the only diff

[Cortexian]

Grain doesn't have a size, grain refers to weight of the actual bullet... Are you referring to the cartridge size? Cause .22 LR and .223 use a very similar bullet, but a different cartridge size.

[TVTyrant]

Grain doesn't have a size, grain refers to weight of the actual bullet... Are you referring to the cartridge size? Cause .22 LR and .223 use a very similar bullet, but a different cartridge size.
I believe he meant the weight is the only real difference. As in it is miniscule.

[Warsaw]

.223 / 5.56 isn't that much heavier than .22 LR and will still do the job. Probably even more common nowadays than .22 LR...

A brass casing almost three times longer and almost twice as wide with that much more powder is not that much heavier? Say what? Sorry, but .223 is a lot heavier than .22 LR. It is also not more common than .22 LR, not in the United States. If it were, then .223 would be cheaper than it is.

[Cortexian]

If you can't deal with the weight difference between 300 rounds of .22 LR and .223 you probably won't need to be worrying about what guns you're going to be taking in case of raptor invasion.

Just sayin.

[Warsaw]

No, I'm talking about the difference between carrying 450 rounds of .22LR and 300 rounds of .223. I'd rather have the 450 rounds of .22LR. You also totally ignored the point about .22 LR being far and a way easier to find.

But hey, if you want to take .223, more .22LR for me. No, I'm not sharing when you run out of .223.

[paladin]

.22lr shoots about 50 yds before it drops. Id rather have a .223 that shoots 300

[Warsaw]

I would take:

1. A .22 Ruger Mk. III - .22 is so ubiquitous and easy to make that you would have to be insane to not include a single firearm that uses it.

2. M1897 shotgun - reliable, easy to fix, 12 ga., slam fire

3. .223 or .308 R700 rifle - sometimes, you just need the range to be safe. Also, if you break a Mauser action, you are a dumbfuck.

I favour extreme reliability over firepower. Your (general) semi-automatic bullshit isn't going to help you much when a critical part breaks and there is no replacement. It also isn't going to help you when the guy with the bolt-action Winchester magnum simply kills you from afar. And make no mistake, no semi is as accurate or durable as a bolter and rapid fire is useless if it skews your aim even more. This is survival: shoot first, ask questions later.

:downs:

Don't honestly know why we are arguing about rifles when I put the .22 in a pistol.

[TVTyrant]

Yeah but the .22LR is more than a little under powered for just about anything. Between the two I'd take a .223/5.56. You can shoot small game, defend yourself, hunt bigish game... Oh wait thats all the purposes of my shotgun!

[Cortexian]

.223 is fine for taking down a Deer the usual way, I wouldn't try and Elk or Moose unless I could take a perfect ear/eye shot.

[TVTyrant]

.223 is fine for taking down a Deer the usual way, I wouldn't try and Elk or Moose unless I could take a perfect ear/eye shot.
As opposed to a 1 ounce slug out of my shotty.

[Warsaw]

Moose skull will stop a .44 magnum at 100 and 50 yards.

[sleepy1212]

what hunter aims at the head?

[PenGuin1362]

Buy AR-15, buy .22 conversion kit. Carry both rounds. Endless possibilities. And by endless I mean two choices.

[TVTyrant]

Buy AR-15, buy .22 conversion kit. Carry both rounds. Endless possibilities. And by endless I mean two choices.
That are both less useful than a 12 gauge...

[Warsaw]

what hunter aims at the head?

It's an interesting piece of trivia. And if it's bull-rushing you, well...

[Cortexian]

what hunter aims at the head?
Took out an Elk a couple years ago with a headshot from my .308 since it was the only option. She was standing straight towards me, looking directly at us for about 15 minutes. We decided that instead of trying to wait for a better shot that I should aim for the eye and take a headshot. Worked wonders, instant drop.

Would never do it on a Bull though, in case we decided that we wanted to mount the head.


That are both less useful than a 12 gauge...
You have obviously never gone hunting for deer/elk/moose with 12 gauge slugs. A .22 LR probably has the same chance of downing a deer that a 12 ga. slug does since there effective range maxes out at 100 yards then drop like the giant chunk of lead they are. I'd take a .223 over either for any hunting situation.

Also, slugs are extremely inaccurate in real life. Bad Company 2 is a HORRIBLE example.

[sleepy1212]

Took out an Elk a couple years ago with a headshot from my .308 since it was the only option. She was standing straight towards me, looking directly at us for about 15 minutes. We decided that instead of trying to wait for a better shot that I should aim for the eye and take a headshot. Worked wonders, instant drop.

Maybe if she's really close, otherwise you took a BIG chance that's typically regarded as unethical and unsportsmanlike; but you probably already knew that. It's never the only option when you're hunting for sport.

My brother and I have both shot deer in the head with 7mm-08 (mercy kill) and even does don't always go down easy with headshots. Neckshots on the other hand seem to work wonders.

[Cortexian]

Maybe if she's really close, otherwise you took a BIG chance that's typically regarded as unethical and unsportsmanlike; but you probably already knew that. It's never the only option when you're hunting for sport.
Was at about 200 yards.

How is it unethical or unsportsmanlike? You're going to attempt to shoot it either way, it doesn't matter where if you're hunting for the meat like all hunters should be. Trophies are just a bonus that's sometimes worth taking priority over the meat, or even letting the animal live another day cause you couldn't get a satisfactory shot.

If anything a headshot is more ethical, it puts the animal completely out instantly. Every one of my typical shots have had the animal alive for a minute or so after the shot flailing around on the ground or even attempting to run away for half an hour or so.

[sleepy1212]

I only said typically. Most people will miss the smaller target a head/brain makes and that leaves bullets flying or a crappy hit that painfully disfigures the animal instead of killing it or slowly killing it. Many people wouldn't use the right caliber to make headshots because they don't consider the strength of the skull. And most animals don't hold their heads still long enough to make a responsible attempt at a headshot.

It's a low percentage shot. That's why it's considered a no-no in the hunting community. While shots in the vitals don't usually kill immediately, they're easier to make and generally always kill quickly.

About: Shot Placement (http://hunting.about.com/od/deerbiggame/a/shotplacement.htm)


Every one of my typical shots have had the animal alive for a minute or so after the shot flailing around on the ground or even attempting to run away for half an hour or so.

That can't be right. Either you aren't hitting the right spot or it just felt like a half hour. A shot to the heart is near instant kill. Hit the lungs and the animal will lay down and die in seconds. Miss a little and fragments will hit these and it could take minutes. I've had gutshot deer die within 30 seconds (gutshot because they were 15ft away). Try waiting longer before you track. when injured they'll run a little and lay down in a thicket. once they lay down it's over.

They always flail for a minute. They're dead though.

[paladin]

I aim for the Achilles

[TVTyrant]

Shoulder shots with my 06 always down deer instantaneously. I have never had one get away or even move around a lot after the impact. I have also arrowed one and I never will again. The pain they go through is ridiculous in archery, and I felt terrible about it (was my first deer).

FreeLancer: I'm not basing it off of BC2... I've fired lots of 12 gauge slugs and hit chest sized targets at 100 yards using a cylinder bore. IDK what crappy slugs you are using, but you should buy better ones. That "big chunk of lead" will kill an animal way faster and more ethically than a .22 LR any time.

[Cortexian]

I only said typically. Most people will miss the smaller target a head/brain makes and that leaves bullets flying or a crappy hit that painfully disfigures the animal instead of killing it or slowly killing it. Many people wouldn't use the right caliber to make headshots because they don't consider the strength of the skull. And most animals don't hold their heads still long enough to make a responsible attempt at a headshot.

It's a low percentage shot. That's why it's considered a no-no in the hunting community. While shots in the vitals don't usually kill immediately, they're easier to make and generally always kill quickly.

About: Shot Placement (http://hunting.about.com/od/deerbiggame/a/shotplacement.htm)



That can't be right. Either you aren't hitting the right spot or it just felt like a half hour. A shot to the heart is near instant kill. Hit the lungs and the animal will lay down and die in seconds. Miss a little and fragments will hit these and it could take minutes. I've had gutshot deer die within 30 seconds (gutshot because they were 15ft away). Try waiting longer before you track. when injured they'll run a little and lay down in a thicket. once they lay down it's over.

They always flail for a minute. They're dead though.
I've been hunting for 9 years and taken at least two deer a year in that time, I recall one a couple years ago that ran for almost a mile with both lungs shot out. I'm not sure what the status of the heart was.

Also, the "hunting community" has no qualms about taking headshots up here because the smallest caliber people hunt with up here is typically .270 and that'll even penetrate skull in a non-soft area. That said, if you can take an ideal side-shot then that's always what you do...

[TVTyrant]

I've been hunting for 9 years and taken at least two deer a year in that time, I recall one a couple years ago that ran for almost a mile with both lungs shot out. I'm not sure what the status of the heart was.

Also, the "hunting community" has no qualms about taking headshots up here because the smallest caliber people hunt with up here is typically .270 and that'll even penetrate skull in a non-soft area. That said, if you can take an ideal side-shot then that's always what you do...
The problem with headshots os pulling the shot, which can cause serious injury to the animal without killing it. I have heard stories of deer/elk roaming the woods for weeks with their lower jaws blown off slowly dying a lingering death.

[Cortexian]

Yeah I don't ever take shots unless I can make the shot perfectly, so that's irrelevant to me. The only way to take a proper headshot is through the eyes or ears were the skull is weakest.

[Amit]

The problem with headshots os pulling the shot, which can cause serious injury to the animal without killing it. I have heard stories of deer/elk roaming the woods for weeks with their lower jaws blown off slowly dying a lingering death.

Jesus Christ :saddowns:

[TVTyrant]

Yeah I don't ever take shots unless I can make the shot perfectly, so that's irrelevant to me. The only way to take a proper headshot is through the eyes or ears were the skull is weakest.
Thats what everyone who ever had it happen probably always said. Your scope can be knocked out of alignment and the wind drift can be stronger than you can anticipate.

[sleepy1212]

Or they could just move their head. Even rifle hunters experience some "string jump" like in archery. That's a real pain in the ass when your target is the size of a golf ball.

[Cortexian]

Thats what everyone who ever had it happen probably always said. Your scope can be knocked out of alignment and the wind drift can be stronger than you can anticipate.
Every day I go out hunting I always sight in under the most ideal conditions possible, wind is pretty negligible since 90% of our shots are through heavy tree areas with little wind. If my scope is bumped one day I switch to a different rifle until I can verify that it's re-sighted, unless of course the animal is sub-100 yards and I can take an ideal shot through the lungs and heart area.


Or they could just move their head. Even rifle hunters experience some "string jump" like in archery. That's a real pain in the ass when your target is the size of a golf ball.
Never done archery so I have no idea what this string jump stuff you're talking about is. All our rifles have extremely light trigger configurations to negate the effects of incorrect trigger depression technique. That said, I have no idea if that's similar to what you're talking about or not.

[sleepy1212]

When you release the arrow the string makes a loud noise the deer hears and instinctively reacts by flinching or jumping. Sometimes it only throws the shot off by a few inches but they can also jump high enough that the arrow goes under them. It's a lot more noticeable in archery because an arrow's speed.

It still happens with rifles but is a lot less of a problem, unless you're aiming for something really small where the diminished "jump" could cause a miss. Distance is a huge factor and, although bullet speed might be 2-3000fps, deer flinch insanely fast. At close distances they won't hear the shot in time but they will hear the trigger (if you've ever dry-fired on a deer you will know this first hand).

It's a stretch in rifle hunting but it's only one example of something that could cause a paranoid animal like a deer to move, ruining the shot. A snapping twig, a wren that just woke up, maybe a squirrel found you under his tree, a slamming truck door, or even a farm dog barking in the next hollow over. All these could ruin the best setup.

[Cortexian]

So long as the animal isn't moving when you pull the trigger that won't be a problem unless the animal is 700+ yards away, and at that range you'd only ever want to take an ideal side-shot anyways...

[TVTyrant]

So long as the animal isn't moving when you pull the trigger that won't be a problem unless the animal is 700+ yards away, and at that range you'd only ever want to take an ideal side-shot anyways...
Or just use a 50 cal so it won't matter.

[Cortexian]

That's a horrible round for hunting, I'd much rather use a .408 CheyTac...

[TVTyrant]

That's a horrible round for hunting, I'd much rather use a .408 CheyTac...
I agree. It was more of a joke. I should have ninjad

[rossmum]

welp, 300 more rounds of .303 to burn

fukken bullets are expensive, reloading still saves a fair bit though

[PenGuin1362]

considering buying an M16 parts kit for $300 (meaning the parts necessary for full auto). Only thing stopping me is how much money its going to cost in ammo when i feel like having fun with the selector switch :p

[Cortexian]

Although I know some states can have full-auto guns, don't you usually also need some extra kind of certification?

[sleepy1212]

yes, otherwise he's technically allowed to own but not allowed to assemble...or something like that.

unless there's a really cool state i don't know about

[PenGuin1362]

false. Places like NH and Vermont allow fully automatic weapons through transactions made by class III dealers. Essentially all I need to do is take it to a gun smith, they'll assemble it, classify it as a class III weapon, charge a $200 automatic weapons tax and register it with the BATF. So an overnight stay at the store and around a total of $500 will present me with a select fire AR-15, well at that point it's now classified as an M4. Which is a hell of a lot cheaper than the 15-20k you pay on average for most automatic M4's/16's. It's very appealing but it'll burn through so much ammo (money) :(

[Cortexian]

Your barrel probably wasn't designed for sustained fire either.

[TVTyrant]

DO IT