Microsoft. I think we all know what this topic is going to talk about.

[Flyboy]

Don't you love it when giant cooperations decide to stick their 40 inch dildos right up into your ass? (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/developer/rules.htm) Well I love it too.

If you put everything they just said, and think about it for a second, many many many things that are being put into effect right now are just about to be waisted. Mainly for machinima, Bridge CE, and Scythopolis. An entire series that one of my favorite producers has been canceled because of Microsoft, and this threatens what I have in the works, which a select few of you may know about. I'm not going to bother explaining this crap to people, as if you care, you should be able to interpret this yourself.

I know most people here are not going to obay this (myself included), but just for another reason to hate microsoft, I just thought what the hell.

And before people start linking me to the other page, yes I know that there is a topic with relatively the same information on the H2v forums. I just think it would be good to have a second source to get the word out. Also, that was more about advice for a specific mod, I just want to discus this rule, and every other restriction our heavenly big brother microsoft has placed on us ever since god said "Let there be suck!"

[Archon23]

........And people wonder why I have a target on my mouse pad that says "Bang Head here".........

[Metroid4593]

It's official; Microsoft fucking hates its customers. They just LOVE to completely screw us over on every little thing possible. -_-

[Skyline]

I'm starting to think those Mac commercials are true. I have a better idea, let me calculate how much time Microsoft just wasted. :shake:

[Mass]

Originally posted by THE MAN
You can’t add to the game universe or expand on the story told in the game with “lost chapters” or back story or anything like that.

Yeah uh, lame. also:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/nate-the-great_photos/gatese.jpg

[TeeKup]

Seriously, what in gods almighty kingdom causes them to think that freelancers like us in the community are going to cause them SO much harm that they HAVE to enact this BULLSHIT.

[Mass]

THEY COULD BE GETTING EXTENDED USE OUT OF THE PRODUCT THEY PURCHASED!!! OR EVEN GENERATING SMALL AMOUNTS OF REVENUE THROUGH HARD WORK!!!!

RELEASE THE LAWYERS!!!

Really, I mean I can understand people being mad about someone reselling their product, but this is insane. And greedy.

[Archon23]

Ahem. Microsoft. 'Nuff Said.

[Limited]

Thats on xbox.com. I dont have an xbox, therefore theres no reason for me to see it.

Therefore I havent seen it ;) Sorted :D

[Elite Killa]

This is shit. WHAT THE FUCKING HELL??!!!!111

Why? Why does Microsoft make such horrible decisions for every stupid little detail in our lives? Can't they just leave us alone for the sake of us? What does machinima have to do with Microsoft to make this....this....THING???!!

[Neuro Guro]

You can’t add to the game universe or expand on the story told in the game with “lost chapters” or back story or anything like that.
So according to this making a custom campaign for Halo:CE is infringing on their IP... good one.

[Skyline]

Thats on xbox.com. I dont have an xbox, therefore theres no reason for me to see it.

Therefore I havent seen it ;) Sorted :D
It says Xbox or PC.

Edit: ^ LOL. That means CMT just wasted all that time for nothing ;).

[Archon23]

That is the rule I don't get one bit.

Why is making spinoff stories illegal now? Oh wait, Microsoft.

[Flyboy]

I say screw Microsoft and their 40 inch dildos, I'm already into filming for my series and I'm not turning back because they say so.

[TeeKup]

You can’t add to the game universe or expand on the story told in the game with “lost chapters” or back story or anything like that.This is their way of stopping something awesome (which they could profit off of) from every getting made. If they can't earn money or anything off of it. No one can. :awesome: Not like we actually get money off our stuff in the first place....we do it for the art and creativity or if we just want to make something awesome. Christ this sucks.

[Elite Killa]

You can't use it to enter a contest or sweepstakes.

At least the contest for the Zune giveaway came and went before this abomination came into play.

[Skyline]

You can’t reverse engineer our games to access the assets or otherwise do things that the games don’t normally permit in order to create your Items.
Does this mean even if we do get something like Prometheus working for halo 2 we can't use it otherwise it would be illegal because we are adding items that we would normally not be able to add (ex: Jahrain's model convertor).

[Elite Killa]

You can’t use the soundtracks or audio effects from the original game.


So does that mean we have to disable sound while we record a movie? I mean, all of the sound like gunfire in a game are examples of audio effects.


I just feel like commiting suicide now... :suicide:

[Emmzee]

You guys all know as well as I do that this is just Microsoft puffing up their feathers. Nothing will change, except more people will whine and complain (as evidenced by nearly every post in this thread). That's about it.

[Archon23]

Seriously how many people are actually going to follow this?

And while I'm on that point do you think that Microsoft will even enforce this?

[Emmzee]

Seriously how many people are actually going to follow this?

And while I'm on that point do you think that Microsoft will even enforce this?
This is just like Napster. When that got shut down, people thought that was the end of filesharing.


Guess they were wrong.

[Elite Killa]

Seriously how many people are actually going to follow this?

And while I'm on that point do you think that Microsoft will even enforce this?
I'm most definently not! All I'm saying is how ridiculous this "rule" is that M$ came up with.

[Flyboy]

I agree with Emm. Nothing will change (I hope), however, even by Microsoft stating this, they are putting their ass way to close to the fire. By the fire, I mean their own customers. If they keep this kind of tactic up, then they will quickly loose support and Apple will finally take a lead. It just goes to show, that if you turn your back on the ones giving you money, for money, you'll quickly regret it.

[DaneO'Roo]

Fuck they're idiots. Without the modding community, and without people being able to make montages, creating new campaigns and stuff, halo for the PC would have died 3 fucking years ago.

Modding increases the lifespan of a game, interests a broader audience and keeps people playing.

This is why Epic Games and ID software are awesome. They fully endorse modding and the games are prolonged even longer. UT2004 would have got old ages ago too, but the ability to create awesome maps and mods, keeps it going.


Just look at Half Life and Counterstrike

2 of the most played games, and they have a gigantic modding community no doubt keeping it stable, and keeping people interested.

Surely not a coincidence.


Microsoft, by trying to scrounge the pennies have lost thousands, maybe millions in fucking everything over. It wasn't broken, buds.

[Zeph]

Custom Edition is not listed in that list. And really, it cant be as they would be infringing on IP they dont own. Carry on.


So according to this making a custom campaign for Halo:CE is infringing on their IP... good one.
Nope. The tools to do so are available and sanctioned by them.

[legionaire45]

You can’t add to the game universe or expand on the story told in the game with “lost chapters” or back story or anything like that.
Thats the only one I have any problems with. It's stupid, it's not like anybody really is making any money off it and unless it really does suck so much that it somehow robs Microsoft of money. I don't see why they should give a damn if you are adding back story to a game. That would be like saying that parodying something is illegal.

[Agent ME]

Looking at these two mainly:

You can’t sell or otherwise earn anything from your Items. We will let you have advertising on the page with the Item on it, but that’s it. That means you can’t sell it, post it on a site that requires subscription or other fees, solicit donations of any kind (even by PayPal), use it to enter a contest or sweepstakes, or post it on a page you use to sell other items (even if those other items have nothing to do with Game Content or Microsoft).
...
You can’t add to the game universe or expand on the story told in the game with “lost chapters” or back story or anything like that.
Doesn't this make about every halo machinima and fanfic illegal?

All serious machinimas add to the game universe in some way and follow the story. And a lot have a section where you pay them to become a member to download higher-res versions/download them earlier.
So those are ALL illegal now?

And this one:

You can’t use the soundtracks or audio effects from the original game. We often license those from third parties and don’t have the rights to pass them on to you.
So all machinima must be completely muted? So now we have to make movies like in... the 20's? where there was no sound with slideshow cards for dialogue?

[Flyboy]

I think that is possibly the biggest problem for Machinima...ers like myself. However, the fact that we can't even use sounds from the game is stupid.

Oh no, he used the bullet sound from the BAMF Rifle! The third parties are angry! We must SUE!

[Zeph]

I would like to see them take something dealing with this to court against a prepared defense. It would pretty much finally test the 'we can change this agreement at any time' thing. I know the terms of service are like that for future flexibility against exploits, but there is a massive amount of content out there right now produced before this. Is it bound to the agreement from the time of its creation or is it bound to the new changes? Honestly, I think it's still fine. Imagine if bussinesses for real world content/services did this?

[Skyline]

Custom Edition is not listed in that list. And really, it cant be as they would be infringing on IP they dont own. Carry on.


Nope. The tools to do so are available and sanctioned by them.

Halo 2 Vista isn't listed. Really how would you make as much as they say in halo 1 alone.

"ANY" game published by M$, Halo custom edition is still published by microsoft.

[halo2windows]

It's official; Microsoft fucking hates its customers. They just LOVE to completely screw us over on every little thing possible. -_-
That's true. They put no effort in their products.

[Emmzee]

That's true. They put no effort in their products.
Then why did Halo, Halo 2, and soon Halo 3 sell so well? As far as I know, I haven't seen any Halo 3 ads of TV since the Super Bowl, so it isn't marketing.

[Agamemnon]

It was the best the console had to offer in the FPS department. I can clearly remember the early days of the Xbox and everyone buying one to get Halo and go over to a friend's house and link four Xboxes to play with 16 people. The interaction between one another, the feeling you get when you shoot a rocket in your friend's face, or when you hear, "ITZA BOMB! GEET OWT!" come from another room, it just made the game ten times as fun. People who had experiences like that carried them over to their friends and built anticipation for Halo 2 on its own.

Also, you don't really need to have a commercial for something to properly advertise. Why would Microsoft spend millions on a commercial when magazines/websites advertise it enough?

[Warsaw]

Then why did Halo, Halo 2, and soon Halo 3 sell so well? As far as I know, I haven't seen any Halo 3 ads of TV since the Super Bowl, so it isn't marketing.

Because it has a cult of fans following it, and I myself am guilty of that (I only bought the limited stuff this time around to spite my friends and to be different than the regular XBOX 360 owners).

Those last two rules are the worst ones.

[Skiiran]

It could be worse. They could say NO Machinima, flat-out.

Silver linings.

[Zeph]

Halo 2 Vista isn't listed. Really how would you make as much as they say in halo 1 alone.

"ANY" game published by M$, Halo custom edition is still published by microsoft.
There is no game called Halo 2 Vista. There is a game called Halo Custom Edition. And you left out the all-important second half of that quote:

And by the way, these Rules only cover games published by Microsoft Game Studios and where Microsoft owns the copyright.
Microsoft cant own the copyright for your work unless you give it to them.


Then why did Halo, Halo 2, and soon Halo 3 sell so well? As far as I know, I haven't seen any Halo 3 ads of TV since the Super Bowl, so it isn't marketing.
Halo 1 had such a cult following it spilled over into Halo 2.

[halo2windows]

Then why did Halo, Halo 2, and soon Halo 3 sell so well? As far as I know, I haven't seen any Halo 3 ads of TV since the Super Bowl, so it isn't marketing.
They put little to no effort in their PC products. Look at Windows Vista. I personally find it very nice. Other people say its buggy. I haven't met a single bug. What about Halo 2 PC? Why didn't they make it DirectX 10?

[Flyboy]

I'm happy they didn't, if they did we'd have people bitching "I don't have a Dx10 card!" I would be one of them.

[itszutak]

...What about Rooster Teeth?

[Emmzee]

...What about Rooster Teeth?
They suck, who cares about them anymore?

[DaneO'Roo]

you suck

[itszutak]

They suck, who cares about them anymore?

I'm just wondering; they somehow got away with a very popular series, probably boosting MS's revenue a bit, but they would have been unable to do so with these new laws...

:/

[SnaFuBAR]

o btw, if they should ever want to take someone to court for making a funny machinima, they'd loose. SATIRE ACT HURR.

FUCK OFF MICRODICK.

[Emmzee]

you suck
Wow. That was an eloquent, thought-provoking rebuttal. You must be captain of the debate team. In fact, I bet you're going to take the Guinness World Record for most well-thought out response, so eloquently put in your post.


FUCK OFF MICRODICK.
How did the topic change to Stealth all of a sudden?

[Atty]

Why didn't they make it DirectX 10?Because they wanted to release the game sometime this year?

They would have had to re-write the entire engine to make us of DX10. There would be no point, it would have been a total waste of man power and money, as well as time to get the game released before Halo 3 is out. I'm amazed anyone still doesn't realize this...

[itszutak]

Wow. That was an eloquent, thought-provoking rebuttal. You must be captain of the debate team. In fact, I bet you're going to take the Guinness World Record for most well-thought out response, so eloquently put in your post.


How did the topic change to Stealth all of a sudden?

Goddamnit. Stop with the posts. My two bars of rep can't keep up.

>:(

And I can't rep you right now.

[Neuro Guro]

I don't give a shit about this because until anyone starts showing up knocking on my front door, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.

[rossmum]

Yeah, I doubt they can really do shit about it. They'll probably make a few examples, realise it's pointless, then give up.

[Flyboy]

I don't give a shit about this because until anyone starts showing up knocking on my front door, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.
:highfive:

You remind me of me.

[Archon23]

Hell I'm really doubting they'll even set examples.

[Agamemnon]

I don't give a shit about this because until anyone starts showing up knocking on my front door, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.
width="600" height="600"

[Flyboy]

I think they will try to enforce this, in the beginning that is. Then after they realize no one cares what the fuck they think, they'll give up, realizing that they don't have enough lawyers.

[Bodzilla]

yeah i saw this the other day and was devestated.

cheers for quoting me btw dano :)

[Pooky]

Careful what you say guys, the Microsoft secret police are watching :ssh:

[jahrain]

LOL PIRATE
Dude that is so seriously fucking annoying that I had to add it to my blocksite list allong with those "Congratulations! You have just been selected to receive 2 free ipod nanos" ads I see on various sites.


Careful what you say guys, the Microsoft secret police are watching :ssh: And they are lurking here as well known forum members :ssh:...


You know what? I'm actually happy to hear about this. I have been spending the last year and a half, taking harsh community beatings, flamings, floggings, public humiliation and ridicule trying to warn people that that this is the direction microsoft is heading with the gaming industry. This finally proves it and it shows they have no interest in changing directions. All they have to do is work their way to the top to have as much control over the gaming industry as they have over operating system industry, and they can fuck us over all they want. Before you know it, we will be paying for ammo reloads in games. They already got us to pay just to get online multiplayer with Live who knows whats next.

Anyways, lets examine how much they just fucked us over this time with these "rules" they have bestowed upon their customers. (lol, instead of a product that is controlled and used by the user, with microsoft, the user is controlled and used by the product.)

You can’t reverse engineer our games to access the assets or otherwise do things that the games don’t normally permit in order to create your Items.What!? Even though the US law says we can do this in certain situations, I guess microsoft is the law when using their products now. So now attn. machinima producers. If this means what it says, you may NOT use any reverse engineering tools, such as camera hacks, dev mode hacks, remove hud hacks, player or object spawning hacks, or anything that could potentially be defined as "reverse engineering" to do some of the things that you would normally do to make conditions ideal or even suitable for recording machinima.

Attn. render artists. You not may obtain in any way models, or textures from the game as they require reverse engineering efforts to obtain them. That also means you cannot make any derived work from those assets such as fan based movie sequences, scene renders (sorry veggie, but all your shit is now illegal), or anything else in that matter if it involves using anything that could be defined as reverse engineering to obtain those assets.


You can’t use Game Content to create pornographic or obscene Items, or anything that contains vulgar, racist, hateful, or otherwise objectionable content.LOLOMGWTF Masterchief pr0n!? Seriously, I could understand if microsoft was in Temco's situation. It would considerate to define what they would consider "obscene, or objectionable" as one can easily define anything violent in that case to be obscene. The way they loosely use vague terms could suit this to anything they feel convenient. This puts them in a position that they could shut down any machinima or fan based derivative work as long as they can find a way to define it to be "obscene or objectionable". This is like the microsoft version of the patriot act.

You can’t sell or otherwise earn anything from your Items. We will let you have advertising on the page with the Item on it, but that’s it. That means you can’t sell it, post it on a site that requires subscription or other fees, solicit donations of any kind (even by PayPal), use it to enter a contest or sweepstakes, or post it on a page you use to sell other items (even if those other items have nothing to do with Game Content or Microsoft).So your "items" (wtf is with this macro?) can't be posted on fileplanet, or rapidshare, megaupload, etc or anything that sell products (such as download subscription plans) on the same page as the downloads. Good luck finding somewhere to post your "items"...


You can’t use the soundtracks or audio effects from the original game.As mentioned before, when recording, even for non machinima purposes, you can only record video, not sound. In the post processing, you could add little comic book styled "bang bang" and "boom" text bubbles next to your gun when ever you shoot something to give it some bit of interest.



You can’t add to the game universe or expand on the story told in the game with “lost chapters” or back story or anything like that.Be sure that in your fan based and fanfic work, you say "THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL GAME. THIS DOES NOT EXPAND THE GAME UNIVERSE IN ANY WAY NOR TELLS ANY BACK STORIES IN RELATION TO THE GAME" as a little disclaimer from this new rule. Also, make sure you're not original or creative and don't do anything that could potentially "expand the game universe" such as giving characters names that are not in the original game, telling any stories, or adding objects or scenes that aren't within the game universe. This will be a tricky one to work around when creating any fan based works.


You can’t grant anyone the right to build on your creations. We don’t mind if other people help you out, but you have to be clear with them that it’s not you giving permission, it’s us. (That’s how we make sure everyone plays by the same rules.)This makes no sense, nor does any of the the other "rules" but this one really doesn't. In fact, if it made any sense, it would be a negative amount of sense.




Anyways, according to them, you must all be loyal obedient fans and listen to their nazi rules of being a fan or else "you can expect to hear from Microsoft’s lawyers who will tell you that you have to stop distributing your Items right away." To sum this up, this filters out about 99.9% of all fan based work we were able to do in the past using the original content.


There’s still a way to do some of these things we’ve excluded, but you have to contact us for a commercial license. Thanks, and have fun!AH HAH!!!! Yes now it all makes sense! DUH.... They just found out a way now to make money off of whoring out all fan based creations, and this is their first step in doing so. Anyone who isn't blind could easily see that this is because they want to sell "commercial licenses" to creators of fan based content. This must be their latest scheme. Make 99.9% of all fan based work illegal, and sell licenses to fans to make it legal. With the amount of fan work out there and people who will blindly pay for anything microsoft asks them to, they could make fortunes with this.

Buy the Fan Based Creation Premium Gold Package! Which will allow you to create up to 3 fan based works to be distributed for up to 12 months! Many restrictions may apply. Not available in all areas. All plans are subject to 4 year agreements. Termination, activation and many other hidden fees may apply.

[nooBBooze]

Hell I'm really doubting they'll even set examples.
Okay, i confess i really mention it alot, but in a thread like this i should be allowed to unload my grief.
Halogen.

K, it didnt have any connection to this new law-but still M$ acts as random as it acts greedy.

[Emmzee]

I don't give a shit about this because until anyone starts showing up knocking on my front door, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.
You, are, a pirate!

~SWF Removed
^^
Thanks.

[Siliconmaster]

As someone who's part of a project which violates quite a few of those rules (sound fx, model/bitmap extraction, etc.) I'm torn between ignoring the problem completely and just replacing all the Halo models with our own. But that would take forever, so I'm leaning considerably toward the "let it all blow over" approach. Animation ftw!

[Agamemnon]

Dude that is so seriously fucking annoying that I had to add it to my blocksite list allong with those "Congratulations! You have just been selected to receive 2 free ipod nanos" ads I see on various sites
Don't you have a mute button?

[rossmum]

Why would you want to mute the awesomeness that is an endless loop of the chorus of You Are A Pirate? :confused2:

[LinkandKvel]

I hope this doesn't stop Dennis with the Halo CE Chronicles.

[Agamemnon]

Well it's not the full one. Couldn't find it last night. :(