Frag Nade strength

[Masterz1337]

One person in the server today was complaining the nades were to weak. I like having them do less damage, as the game becomes less of a nade fest, and it forces players to use frag nades to help get kills, rather than their primary way of killing. I agree they need a little extra damage, but should we keep them similar to how they are now.

[jcap]

One person in the server today was complaining the nades were to weak. [...]
*eight people

They need more damage, but they should be able to kill in two. One grenade should not put your health into the red, but it should completely drain your shields.

[Neuro Guro]

I voted weak , but i'd have it strong enough so it kills the sheilds at least , then you can just use your weapon to finish the rest , and if one kills all the nades , dont add starting nades , add them around the level some. I think nades are just good to help ya to get a kill , combined with using a weapon.

[Kyle]

You should either make them weaker and they can carry four of each, or stronger and they can only carry two of each. That's the only way to really solve it. D:

Oh and "strength" ;p

[someone]

The frag should be stronger, so that one can take down the whole shield, but not the health.

[TIA Gangsta]

Nah, I prefer it to be weaker. I always use nades, but for some reason I just don't feel like using nades in the CMT mod. Maybe it's because the weapons are so fun and interesting to use. I've never even tried out how strong the nades are until (litterally) a few mins ago.

So yeah, I'd prefer it to be left as it is for this mod in particular.

[Hurrvish]

make them slightly stronger, just enough to take out shieds, but then you can only carry 2 of the frags (like in Halo 3)

can you make it so that any explosions can set off the nades on the ground (both types)

[rossmum]

Stronger. Please. They feel weedy, even compared to the H1 grenades. And even those are pathetic compared to most other games I play.

[DaneO'Roo]

damage pl0x

[MikeM709]

I agree with making them stronger. Quite a few times I tossed a nade expecting it to kill someone then got surprised when i ran in there and they weren't dead :/

[rossmum]

It took me two and half an AR mag at close range to actually kill someone...

[Hurrvish]

really? it took me 6 shots to take out the shields, and 5 more shots to kill
AR mb too accurate?

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

really? it took me 6 shots to take out the shields, and 5 more shots to kill
AR mb too accurate?You know we have a code for invisible text... the [ninja] tags. And no, the ar is not to accurate. I have seen much more accurate assault weapons in other games, the weapon is fine.

[Hurrvish]

ok, i was just checking
lol, ninja tags

what a bunch of cowcrud

[rossmum]

The AR is fine, it's mainly my shit-poor leading ability and high ping that make me miss so much... but the nades are pretty much worthless >_>

[Stealth]

and the plasma nades are just as bad as the Frag nades, if you can, add something to the frags so it isn't just a boom, but it has some fragments to it, ones that some will hit you, and others that will bunce off of you.

[Teroh]

More damage. I hate nading someone then realising I still have to use a full clip to kill him.

[Atty]

What is strenth?

If you mean strength, it should stay the same as it's always been in Halo. No need to change it, it's good as is.

[rossmum]

Yeah. In any case, grenade spam is a legit tactic, if you look at newsreel WWII footage they used it then and all. :D

[PenGuin1362]

What is strenth?

If you mean strength, it should stay the same as it's always been in Halo. No need to change it, it's good as is.

^

[Hurrvish]

also, can you change the explosion bitmap? its a bit too orange and looks too fake :/
the plasma nades a fine, everything is perfect except for that glitchy thing on any map, where you thought you stuck someone, but it bounces off so you see a huge blue blob on their head, but the nade explodes behind you and you get killed

[TIA Gangsta]

also, can you change the explosion bitmap? its a bit too orange and looks too fake :/
the plasma nades a fine, everything is perfect except for that glitchy thing on any map, where you thought you stuck someone, but it bounces off so you see a huge blue blob on their head, but the nade explodes behind you and you get killed

That happens on some maps when you're guest. You think you stuck them and theres a big glowling blob thing on their body, but then it dissappears and the nade appears somewhere else. It ain;t a glitch with the map.

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

also, can you change the explosion bitmap? its a bit too orange and looks too fake :/
the plasma nades a fine, everything is perfect except for that glitchy thing on any map, where you thought you stuck someone, but it bounces off so you see a huge blue blob on their head, but the nade explodes behind you and you get killedThat's called lag. You have to lead your sticky grenades just like if you were shooting the person.

[rossmum]

also, can you change the explosion bitmap? its a bit too orange and looks too fake :/
the plasma nades a fine, everything is perfect except for that glitchy thing on any map, where you thought you stuck someone, but it bounces off so you see a huge blue blob on their head, but the nade explodes behind you and you get killed
Yeah. Add some more yellow/white and plenty more smoke, dust and debris. Possibly fake shrapnel - a plane with a transparent skin, with a few animated speckles flying outwards from the explosion, and a wide-range damage (say a blast radius of 8 or so) of 0-10-30 so that it does either no, little or moderate damage and is potentially lethal to someone who is already wounded.

[Hurrvish]

i do lead my nades, i see them hit the helmet, but it still bounces off :(
if youre going to say lag, the server's overall ping was no less than 60 (not talking about the CMT one)

[adumass]

Make them explode faster and weaker or just stronger. Make it so the detonation timer starts immediately not when at rest.

[Syuusuke]

Can you make it so its strong on shields and weak on your meat? (meaning the vitality)

[Amit]

i do lead my nades, i see them hit the helmet, but it still bounces off :(
if youre going to say lag, the server's overall ping was no less than 60 (not talking about the CMT one)

that is a bug built into halo itself and it carried over to halo ce

[rossmum]

i do lead my nades, i see them hit the helmet, but it still bounces off :(
if youre going to say lag, the server's overall ping was no less than 60 (not talking about the CMT one)
Low ping = good. High ping = bad...


Make them explode faster and weaker or just stronger. Make it so the detonation timer starts immediately not when at rest.
No point in changing the det timer. If anything it'd just make them harder to use because a lot of us have fine-tuned our timing to that of the regular Halo grenades.


Can you make it so its strong on shields and weak on your meat? (meaning the vitality)
Yeah, you can, though if anything it'd probably be the other way around :|

[Mr Buckshot]

If they're going to be this weak, then increase the number of frags the player can carry. Four is not quite enough, especially if the first few enemies you kill don't drop any (this was a big fault with the human weapons in H2, which lacked reserve ammo).

[rossmum]

I think 36-10 is an overwhelming enough majority to call this one settled...

[Masterz1337]

Ya ya I get it. Incrase nade strength.

[rossmum]

Thanks Masters. :)

[HDoan]

thank you Master Masterz

[Masterz1337]

Well, it ended like this. 2 nades, 4 bullets to take someone down. Thats how I intend of keeping it.

Complaints?

[jcap]

They should be done like this:

If you are standing within 2.5 world units of the grenade, your shields should be drained completely and you should be at 80%-85% health. With the bounce on the grenades and with the constant moving of the player it actually takes SKILL to land it within that radius. Once outside of that 2.5 world unit radius up to whatever Halo's default max is, your shields should be drained to roughly 15%-20%. That's more practical. In addition, you should start off with only one frag grenade, and one plasma grenade.

Right now, there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO sense to using a grenade. You can kill someone with half a clip with the SMG from mid range, and yet you can't even bring down someone's health WHEN STANDING ON TOP OF A GRENADE? What is this, A JOKE? Whatever happened to balance? Whatever happened to the vote?

[rossmum]

:|

The original Halo grenades made sense. One to drain shields, another to kill.

[Timo]

They should be kept as strong as the original grenades. I always liked shooting someone into a hiding spot and then tossing a frag in there to finish them off, or fragging a hiding spot to get the bastards out of there.

[Bodzilla]

The AR is fine, it's mainly my shit-poor leading ability and high ping that make me miss so much... but the nades are pretty much worthless >_>
^indeed.

the nades need to be able to take out all of the sheild and most of there health. at the moment there pretty terrible and it's a struggle to use them for a kill. for ppl like me and rossmum nades are a life saver because when we battle with the high 300 pings it makes it easier to hurt someone and makes it so the ping gap aint quiet as big as it used to be.
we need more damage on them.

[Bodzilla]

They should be done like this:

If you are standing within 2.5 world units of the grenade, your shields should be drained completely and you should be at 80%-85% health. With the bounce on the grenades and with the constant moving of the player it actually takes SKILL to land it within that radius. Once outside of that 2.5 world unit radius up to whatever Halo's default max is, your shields should be drained to roughly 15%-20%. That's more practical. In addition, you should start off with only one frag grenade, and one plasma grenade.
.....
that makes it a hell of alot harder for high pingers to use them. if u do that u turn an explosion into a thing of accuracy, just have them the same strength and blast radius as they have allways been.

[Stormwing]

i think all you need to do is have:
current plasma damage = new frag damage
current frag damage = new plasma damage

(plasma kills have health + shields)

[jcap]

Well, looks like he is ignoring the vote... Well, not only that, but a few other fairly common complaints, too.

So tell me, what's the point of having the vote if you aren't even going to bother with following it? Was it made hoping you would have more people on your side so you could prove me wrong and shut me up, or was it made so you would know which way to lean so you can give the people what they want?

I am calling you out on this. Why? Because now I am SICK of having almost every one of my suggestions being ignored, just to be repeated in the long run by everyone else, and THEN for something to be done about it. I don't want to see this to go down the shitter because you feel what you want is what everyone does. If people did that all the time, what would the world be? That's why we have teams; so you get many people's viewpoints and make something the best it can be. Unfortunately, the "team" part of the Custom Map Team is being ruled out. Don't believe me? Check the vote. That will show you which way they are swinging. So, take one for the team, or bring everyone down with you?

[Zeph]

Well, looks like he is ignoring the vote... Well, not only that, but a few other fairly common complaints, too.

So tell me, what's the point of having the vote if you aren't even going to bother with following it? Was it made hoping you would have more people on your side so you could prove me wrong and shut me up, or was it made so you would know which way to lean so you can give the people what they want?

I am calling you out on this. Why? Because now I am SICK of having almost every one of my suggestions being ignored, just to be repeated in the long run by everyone else, and THEN for something to be done about it. I don't want to see this to go down the shitter because you feel what you want is what everyone does. If people did that all the time, what would the world be? That's why we have teams; so you get many people's viewpoints and make something the best it can be. Unfortunately, the "team" part of the Custom Map Team is being ruled out. Don't believe me? Check the vote. That will show you which way they are swinging. So, take one for the team, or bring everyone down with you?

Whoa, you mean it's 51-13 and he's going with the 13?

[Pooky]

Well, it was his mod originally... and the way the nades work in RC3B is fine...

[jcap]

Well, it was his mod originally... and the way the nades work in RC3B is fine...
He wouldn't have gotten ANYWHERE if it wasn't for the people behind the curtain, and yet as of now all that is being put behind. To me, that's just sick. Plus, you were one of the thirteen who got what they wanted. How about the 51 other people who are getting screwed over and left in the dark?

[Pooky]

Yeah, that's probably true... still, wouldn't a compromise be the best thing to do here?

[jcap]

Yeah, that's probably true... still, wouldn't a compromise be the best thing to do here?
I would love that. In fact, I offered one back at my post here (http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showpost.php?p=13591&postcount=36), but this one, along with some others, were turned down/ignored.


Conscars on AIM]
[13:08] Conscars: http://www.h2vista.net/forums/showpost.php?p=13591&postcount=36
[13:08] Conscars: truth
There are some who agree with me, however. Conscars voted for the weaker grenades and he agrees with this compromise, so at least I know I have some logical reasoning behind it.

[Pooky]

I personally think that energy shields should do a better job of absorbing grenade fragments than they do in Halo 1, but that is a very reasonable idea there. Oh well...

[Reaper Man]

How about the 51 other people who are getting screwed over and left in the dark?
*52, the Reaper Man has arrived.

[rossmum]

2 standard Halo frags would be a fair trade off... anything but the current nades. It took me a full stock of EIGHT - count 'em, EIGHT - grenades plus a pistol mag and an AR mag (granted the bulk share of the shots missed due to lag) to bring down one person.

[Reaper Man]

Then again, there is the fail-.. netcode.

[rossmum]

Failcode shouldn't make shit all difference when the grenade lands well within its supposed 2.5wu blast radius. :|

[PenGuin1362]

Well, looks like he is ignoring the vote... Well, not only that, but a few other fairly common complaints, too.

So tell me, what's the point of having the vote if you aren't even going to bother with following it? Was it made hoping you would have more people on your side so you could prove me wrong and shut me up, or was it made so you would know which way to lean so you can give the people what they want?

I am calling you out on this. Why? Because now I am SICK of having almost every one of my suggestions being ignored, just to be repeated in the long run by everyone else, and THEN for something to be done about it. I don't want to see this to go down the shitter because you feel what you want is what everyone does. If people did that all the time, what would the world be? That's why we have teams; so you get many people's viewpoints and make something the best it can be. Unfortunately, the "team" part of the Custom Map Team is being ruled out. Don't believe me? Check the vote. That will show you which way they are swinging. So, take one for the team, or bring everyone down with you?
masterz go with the 52 >_>

[Pooky]

2 standard Halo frags would be a fair trade off... anything but the current nades. It took me a full stock of EIGHT - count 'em, EIGHT - grenades plus a pistol mag and an AR mag (granted the bulk share of the shots missed due to lag) to bring down one person.


The AR needs a way bigger clip and more reserve ammo. The reload for a full clip isn't exactly short, and I've yet to see anyone kill with 1 clip. It needs at least a 40 round clip, preferably 45.

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

The AR needs a way bigger clip and more reserve ammo. The reload for a full clip isn't exactly short, and I've yet to see anyone kill with 1 clip. It needs at least a 40 round clip, preferably 45.I have killed several people with one clip before, it's most likely due to your ping/poor leading...

[Pooky]

I have killed several people with one clip before, it's most likely due to your ping/poor leading...

Good for you, maybe you have god-like aiming. So, here it goes again, one disagreement is going to lead to this person disagreeing with me on every single point. I don't want to ignore yet another person -.-

[WhÎþLå§h ÐÆmØÑ]

Good for you, maybe you have god-like aiming. So, here it goes again, one disagreement is going to lead to this person disagreeing with me on every single point. I don't want to ignore yet another person -.-Uh, no. I don't get biased with one person because of one statement/argument I have with them. But believe me, I certainly do not have god-like aiming. I just get lucky.

[Pooky]

Apparently I don't... but if nothing else isn't a 32 round clip just a little bit silly? We've had Assault Rifles with clips bigger than that for years, why then should a super shiny futuristic one be crippled that way? The SMG is a starting weapon and it's way more useful than the Assault Rifle, with such a tiny clip and such a small capacity for more ammo, it's just not worth the pickup. Perhaps in light of that if it doesn't get a bigger clip it should be a starting weapon, as the SMG is more powerful.

[Dole]

Apparently I don't... 1. but if nothing else isn't a 32 round clip just a little bit silly? 2. We've had Assault Rifles with clips bigger than that for years, 3. why then should a super shiny futuristic one be crippled that way? 4. The SMG is a starting weapon and it's way more useful than the Assault Rifle, 5. with such a tiny clip and such a small capacity for more ammo, it's just not worth the pickup. 6. Perhaps in light of that if it doesn't get a bigger clip it should be a starting weapon, 7. as the SMG is more powerful.
1. More accurate weapon + more powerful rounds + less ammo = balance
2. *Note - they had bigger clips. Look how small the AR magazine is physically. Compact, yet effective.
3. See answer to #1
4. No, it really isn't. Good luck trying to kill someone who has an AR when you've got an SMG.
5. Who cares about low ammo capacity? It spawns more frequently and in more places than any other weapon.
6. Depending on the gametype, it is the starting weapon.
7. See answer to #4

[Masterz1337]

I can take down an AR user with my starting weapons, use pistol for distance, use SMG up close. SMG is one of the strongest close range weapons, rivaled only by the spiker and the shotty.

[Pooky]

1. More accurate weapon + more powerful rounds + less ammo = balance

But it ISN'T more powerful, the SMG is. Less ammo I agree with, 32 rounds is excessively less. Plus the SMG is silenced AND the bullets don't have tracers, AND it has a higher ROF. Fighting enemies using ARs with my SMG I win every time. The other way around, I lose everytime, regardless of the range.

2. *Note - they had bigger clips. Look how small the AR magazine is physically. Compact, yet effective.

Compact yes, effective no.

4. No, it really isn't. Good luck trying to kill someone who has an AR when you've got an SMG.

Done, many times.

5. Who cares about low ammo capacity? It spawns more frequently and in more places than any other weapon.

It spawns frequently at the bases. Not so much anywhere else. In most areas you're much more likely to find a Spiker (which is better anyway). Besides, more spawns don't make a weapon any more useful, just more plentiful. Put Plasma Rifle spawns EVERYWHERE on a map, I bet they still don't get picked over a Pistol.

6. Depending on the gametype, it is the starting weapon.

Not CTF where it should be the starting weapon, nor Slayer.


.

[Bodzilla]

I can take down an AR user with my starting weapons, use pistol for distance, use SMG up close. SMG is one of the strongest close range weapons, rivaled only by the spiker and the shotty.
>_> wat about the poll....
54-14 is a clear indication of which way ppl would prefer to have the FRG strength. Dont ignore it cause u want them to be weaker. after all these are release candidates and your supposed to take in opinions of the ppl using your map.

this is just like the multi-color'd biped....

[rossmum]

Oh, of course.

And I agree to an extent on the AR. Under no circumstances should a silenced 5mm SMG beat out a fucking 7.62mm assault rifle at any sort of range, let alone long range.

[Pooky]

Oh, of course.

And I agree to an extent on the AR. Under no circumstances should a silenced 5mm SMG beat out a fucking 7.62mm assault rifle at any sort of range, let alone long range.

And what's the extent after which you disagree?

[rossmum]

The mag doesn't necessarily need an increase, particularly since it's meant to be a H3 AR. The power does. And the reserve ammo is fine.

[Emmzee]

The nade would be best if it killed everyone in the map instantly.

[AAA]

The nade would be best if it killed everyone in the map instantly.

obviously, but where'd that come from:confused2:

[Pooky]

The mag doesn't necessarily need an increase, particularly since it's meant to be a H3 AR. The power does. And the reserve ammo is fine.

Perhaps... still, even if 32 is going to be how it is in Halo 3, maybe Halo 3 is going to suck. I would like to see at least a nice even multiple of ten. If not a power increase would do just as well though (AND SMALLER RETICULE)

[rossmum]

The German MP40 fed off 32-round mags, as did the British Sten. Both good guns, especially close in. Who says the H3 AR will be any different?

In any case, the CMT AR is by no means an accurate depiction of the H3 AR. They've replicated the looks and the mag capacity... but that's about it.

[Pooky]

I know but that's exactly my point though. Why would a gun from the future emulate guns that are no longer in production? Bah, let's drop it

[rossmum]

You're right, current guns have cut back to 10, 20, 30 or in some cases gone to 50, 75 or 100.

Why did they use 32 rounds? I don't know, I'm not the designer. If they want to add 2 extra rounds to a mag barely larger than a standard 30 round one, though, that's fine by me. ;)

[Edward Elrich]

Strange thing, the grenades' explosions seem bigger to me. Maybe it's just because I haven't played anything by CMT for a while.

[m13120]

Explosions don't mean shit. Just because you see an explosion, that doesn't mean that the damage coming from the grenade will exactly hit the person near the grenade. At least, that's from what I've seen. Explosions are just animations. You could have the explosion of a grenade look like a nuke, but that doesn't mean that the power will be the same.

So pretty much, even if the explosion looks bigger, that doesn't mean the power is turned up.

[AAA]

okay...nevermind about the strength...I think the radius of damage is small, too weak? I think Masterz had a good idea going... less of a nade fest, make the damage radius as big as the original frag and keep the damage it has.

This maybe a little late, but this idea is what's been bugging me.

[rossmum]

War is a nade fest. Halo was designed with grenades as an integral part of the gameplay, not a useless round thing that does sweet-fuck-all damage to your opponents.

[Masterz1337]

I changed it to 2 hit kills now.

[HDoan]

Huzzah!:D

[rossmum]

Good. That should be a lot more like it :)

[m13120]

I think Masterz had a good idea going... less of a nade fest, make the damage radius as big as the original frag and keep the damage it has.

This maybe a little late, but this idea is what's been bugging me.

How the hell is throwing a max of 4 nades a nade fest. I say just keep the strength as halo 1.

[itszutak]

Ever seen a barrage of grenades when enemies know you're behind that rock?

It's a nade fest.

[m13120]

Wow four nades isn't a nade fest. If you consider something like 4 nades a nade fest, all I have to say is wow. And even if I was hiding behind somewhere, and I got hit by the first nade, considering that so far the nades are pretty weak in this level, I have enough common sense to run away because I know what's coming next. How retarded do you have to be to stay in one place after you've been hit with a nade. Even if you're that retarded, it doesn't even take TWO nades to kill you in this level. At least, not in the last time I played, the nades were still weak. You SHOULD be able to run away and let them waste their nades. At least, I am able to do that. Nade fests only happen when the host is stupid enough to have infinite nades, which lowers fps, and there, comes the nade fests, and your barrage.

[rossmum]

Yep. Go look at war footage if you want a nade fest... I've seen newsreel footage of an entire Russian platoon lobbing a grenade each at a bunch of Germans. THAT is a nade fest... anything up to 6 or 8 of the nades in RC3B wasn't one at all, especially since the Halo grenades lack shrapnel effects and such and are therefore fairly easy to dodge.

[p0lar_bear]

Wow four nades isn't a nade fest.

Right, because there's only one enemy on any multiplayer game at any given time.

[rossmum]

Yeah, but since when does every person on the team completely empty their stock of grenades on one guy?

In any case, weaker grenades make it MORE of a nade fest since it takes more of them to kill.

[m13120]

Yeah, but since when does every person on the team completely empty their stock of grenades on one guy?

Exactly what I was going to say. The most people that I have gone up against are 3 people in this level (there were more people on the team, they were just somewhere else), and most of them don't even use the nades. Even if they did, it's not that hard to back away to its easier to dodge them, and use something like the pistol to bring them down.

[gruntboy]

I have to say they should be stronger. Their strength now, at least for me, makes me not even try to find more if I run out because they aren't able to deliver well.