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I would not touch Norinco with a ten-foot pole. For many reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that they openly sell arms to known criminal groups, circumventing federal regulations.
Fuck the Chinese. The sooner their housing market explodes, the sooner we can all point and laugh at them and get our money back.
Holy shit, just read up on Norinco. Not touching a damn thing from Marstar.
Norinco as a company is evil. Its the ching chong government (AMERICA!!!) trying to fuck people over. It is literally the arms manufacturing wing of the PRC government.
That being said, their shit usually works and works well. Soviet designs don't fail. The only thing that goes wrong is that they are insanely inaccurate because they are shitting these out to sell to the enemies of America (and Canada), the UK, and Australia as fast as humanly possible.
Basically buy a Norinco if you love the evil version of communism that wants to melt your face for owning a house (aka not Ross's communism), or if you love terrorism.
AMERICA!!!
i heard the atf has been setting up straw purchases and letting guns go for some time in some grossly incompetent attempt to track them or something or other. it didn't make a whole lot of sense (like most atf-related things). in any case the atf is a horrible agency made up of bigots and/or horrible objectionable people who think it is just fine to kick someone's door in then shoot their dog and rub their face in it without any good reason. fuck the atf.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
if i wanted to support terrorism i'd move to the us and vote republicanQuote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
on a more serious note though, there are a lot of companies people buy shit from daily without guilt (some are even hailed as wonderful champions of society) which do horribly fucked up shit.
next time you go to fill up your car, ask yourself if you're supporting terrorism by buying a product from a company (shell) that no shit armed and funded various african factions to prolong existing conflicts, thus driving down their operating costs. i would feel less guilty buying weapons from the dprk than i would buying petrol these days. while we're on the subject of dodgy deals, there was one us firearms manufacturer quite recently busted for selling firearms to crims and guess who funded, trained, and supplied pretty much every country we have fought since vietnam? :haw:
not to say the prc's government aren't fuckwits, though. they most certainly are.
Whos guns do they use? Which side gave advanced weaponry to whom in Korea AND Nam? Every fucking time the US tried to be low key with shit (we gave the SK's fucking TRAPDOOR RIFLES ffs) and avoid conflict, the Russians and Chinese took a big shit of guns and tanks and jets in whatever country they supported. The system fucked up the Soviets too, since all of Eastern Europe rebelled using their wings of the Red Army and by shutting down the communist economy. But when you look at the history of arms supplies, America has been pretty innocent until recently, while the Russians sold AKs and RPG-7s like they were fucking going out of style. Even when they were brand new.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Case in point: in Nam, we sold M1 Carbines (NOT even M2s!!!) to the South Vietnamese. We figured they would work well enough for them to defend themselves against a force similarly conservatively armed, and not arm them enough to be invaders of the North. Wanna know what the Commies did? Took a big ole AK-47 Type II shit in the NVA armories. In Korea they gave the North side rockets and their best machineguns while we gave our guys Trapdoor Rifles and Browning M1895s.
Also: I totally agree with your assessment of Petroleum and other such products. But knowing what I know about Norinco, I would not buy their guns.
The US gave SAMs to the Muj and taught them how to use them, too. The US and UK supplied Iraq with the means to make WMDs decades ago, the bulk of Iran's modern fighters were supplied by the US before the current government took over. Then I could go ahead and point out that both South Korea and South Vietnam were, at the times of the relevant wars, both equally as bad as their northern counterparts. They were horrible shitty dictatorships with abhorrent attitudes towards human rights, but the US propped them up because they were staunchly anti-Communist. None of these conflicts had jack fucking shit to do with the Western world, either - they were largely on the Soviets' doorstep, not ours. Furthermore all of this bullshit happened, along with South America and Africa, because of sheer bloody-minded ignorance on the part of Western governments which made less than no effort to understand why the Soviets behaved in the manners they did, or to change their attitude once Stalin died, or to stop idiotic pieces of fucking filth like McCarthy from fucking over US citizens just because someone didn't like them and made them out to be 'a bit red'. The West, particularly the US, is still rife with horribly misinformed people who blindly shit out 50s-era propaganda at the mere mention of the dreaded C-word.
The entire Cold War was entirely avoidable and the single biggest example of human stupidity I can think of offhand. We came within a hair's breadth of nuking the planet to ash on several occasions just because nobody wanted to sit the fuck down and work out what was going on. The USSR never had any intent to invade or even incite Communist upriisng in Western Europe, just as the US wouldn't have invaded Soviet territory without first being provoked. Anyone who honestly believes there were good guys and bad guys during the Cold War is a fucking idiot.
Basically, the Soviets put such a massive force in Eastern Europe for the same reason Israel constantly gets itself in strife. They are a scarred nation and were hellbent on not being invaded for a third time in the same century, which was a reasonable fear with a radically different ideology on their doorstep. The Western allies assumed such a huge force buildup was something you would want if you intended to attack, and so they began to beef up their own defences and talk tough which put the Soviets even more on edge. Add in your agitators like McCarthy and several decades of political brainwashing - and I mean both sides here - and you're headed for trouble.
Basically my point is this: everywhere is fucking horrible, people are bad, shoot paper/watermelons/old cars not each other
Oh I agree completely. The fact that we seemed to always have to muck shit up with our own ground forces is proof of our own aggression towards the Reds. I was just pointing out that the guns in the hands of our enemies are, by a massive majority, either old Soviet guns or brand new guns made my Norinco. And I totally agree that S.K. and S.V. had awful, awful dictatorships for a while. But my point is, when we went to Afghanistan and gave those fancy rockets and shit to the Muj, it was a big middle finger like "Yeah, you see what it fucking feels like?" If the two sides had ever made one iota of sense, they would have dropped Krags, Enfields and Mosins into those shitholes instead of AKs. The West wanted to play it that way. The Stalin era Soviets and the Mao era Chinese didn't. They were too fucking far up their ass with their "spread communism around the globe! Fight the evil, Capitalist west that invented every resource we use!" asses to realize what they were fucking doing. Now we have a horrible situation on our hands, where any African tribe can go butcher their peaceful neighbors because SOMEBODY didn't know not to give away super efficient killing machines to people who don' believe in Communism or Capitalism or government.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
IMO the biggest mistake either side ever made was to arm the rest of the world with post WW2 weapons. Fucking idiocy.