I have no problem with him sharing his opinion on the design, but he felt it was necessary to challenge me because I don't agree that the artists should "lose their jobs, fast."Quote:
Originally Posted by Donut
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I have no problem with him sharing his opinion on the design, but he felt it was necessary to challenge me because I don't agree that the artists should "lose their jobs, fast."Quote:
Originally Posted by Donut
....yeah actually, thats fair enough. i kinda :raise:'ed at that too.
oh how terrible of me, i made a really flippant post, i'm sure none of you guys ever do that!
in any case, i do find myself questioning why again and again, sci-fi franchises have their art direction shit up by the same completely illogical, unoriginal, greebly bullshit.
Bobble, you also have to remember that this is rossmum's style of posting. He has always posted this way. He will always post this way. You kind of have to read between the lines.
:woop:
inflammatory posting best posting
that artstyle really, truly is bad though
Some of the silhouettes are good, they just went overboard on useless intricacies. The new BR remains a prime example. The Pistol is pretty good though. Incidentally, it's nearly identical to the one in Reach, so I'm not sure I can give credit there.
the new br's silhouette isn't good, it looks like it belongs in unreal. or mass effect. or anywhere else that isn't halo.
I'm honestly okay with the art style if you don't go comparing it to other art styles. It does a have a good bit of Crysis and Metroid Prime influence in them, but many of the artists working for 343i are from those franchises. All I know is that 343i has a very high diversity in artists in terms of where they came from.
Who knows, we might see Spartans with a pair of Bose speakers on their chests.
To me it all looks very lazy. Look at the Halo Reach DMR vs the Halo 4 DMR:
Bungie:
343i:
Just looks undetailed, unloved. Looks boring.
That would be because you're looking at an old, outdated render of the DMR. This current version of the DMR looks much better :
I can't help feeling we could have it all.
Rollin' in the deep!
But still not as good looking as the Reach DMR.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotrodThat would be because you're looking at an old, outdated render of the DMR. This current version of the DMR looks much better :
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amit
It's hardly any different than the "older render". Still looks like crap compared to Bungie's.
I actually kind of prefer it to Bungie's model, since it looks more like a cross between the Battle Rifle and a Sniper Rifle, as it should. The Reach version of the DMR, which being quite awesome, looks just like a BR with a different scope.
that's not really a good mindset to be in, though. "i like reliant robins as long as you don't go comparing them to any other car" would probably get you branded as an idiot, so i don't see why applying the same logic elsewhere should be okay (although for what it is worth, i love the robin simply on the basis of how hilariously terrible it is, and because of only fools and horses).Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
i looked at halo 1's assets, and the game was pretty unique as far as sci-fi went. the weapons all looked like they made sense, and thanks to a mix of style and the restrictions on the engine at the time, details were used sparingly and logically. no greeble to be seen anywhere. every shape had a purpose, every line contributed to the overall form. halo 2 was still better than most, but you could see it slipping. halo 3 slid further still, though i will say they did a very good thing preserving the assault rifle's classic design. that abortion of a thing that was in the earlier halo anniversary teasers (i can only assume it was scrapped for the classic design, and rightly so, as i saw more recent media where that appeared to be the case) was absolutely awful in every single sense. the person who designed it must have been either slacking off or just plain incompetent.
art is supposedly a subjective thing - which i suppose is why you have art schools and critics, because of how subjective it is (:lolugh:) - but i maintain that the 'greeble everything' style is lazy, generic, and completely talentless. you can disagree until you're blue in the face, but really, i will always hold the view that detail which does not in some way contribute to function, let alone form, has no business existing.
further to that, the best art design (if we assume it isn't deliberately abstract, or a parody) is that which is based upon reality. the best concept weapons are consistently those drawn up by people with some idea how firearms work mechanically, because everything makes sense and comes together well. people whose knowledge of guns extends to "press button, shoot bullet" consistently turn out visually confusing, messy abortions which are covered in greeble and dumb shit like phillips head screws and rivets, because they don't know any better and are so desperate to hide their inability to think of reasonable detail that they just throw whatever on there.
With a magazine that size, the DMR should be firing out Anti-Materiel rounds. It looks stupid for a weapon that's meant to be used on the move. Might as well add a bipod and a long range scope. Those things might make it look better. It starts out looking like a huge sniper rifle from the back end and then moves forward into a regular rifle look. It's awkward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod
Ignore this post. I was a retard. I agree with Amit.
"High diversity" isn't that great when all of the designs look like they come from different games.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
The assault rifle looks just like it always has:
http://www.halopedia.org/images/thum...saultRifle.png
But the battle rifle looks like it was designed with a different mentality:
http://www.halopedia.org/images/thum...RightAngle.png
And armor designs that looks Halo-ish (MC's armor looks great, IMO):
http://www.halopedia.org/images/thum...hief_front.pnghttp://www.halopedia.org/images/thum...OLNIR-GEN2.png
To what the hell is this:
http://www.halopedia.org/images/thum...96px-Fotus.jpghttp://www.halopedia.org/images/thum...on-Pioneer.png
That assault rifle looks so out-of-place in that first image. It's not over-designed and anime enough to match that spiky unicorn hat.
The AR's silhouette is recognisable but I wouldn't call it 'just like it always [was]' - it's all greebly and visually confusing now, versus a very clean, functional design in H1 and even H3. And are those fucking rivets? :raise:
The magazine looks to be the same size as the one from Reach, but having the stock integrate into the handle gives the illusion of it being bigger. I dunno, I'm not really gun savvy like many people here, so I guess I don't look at the technical details to figure out if the gun would actually work properly in real life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amit
Things that strike me about the render of it posted further up the page:
- What is the point of the extruded rectangle on the side of the butt?
- Where the fuck does it eject from?
- What is all that bullshit in front of the trigger guard?
- What's the deal with the stock? Okay, so it's a bullpup, and it fires long cartridges I assume - but has anyone actually stopped to think how uncomfortable, awkward, and poorly-balanced that would be?
- Why are there rivets and screws? It's a military weapon. It should be pinned and welded, not screwed and riveted together. Fuck, it's the 26th century; I'd expect it to be more advanced than current weapons in terms of construction techniques, not less so.
- That fire selector looks really awkward to use.
- Barrel and gas block are... weird. Chunky in places they don't need to be, and pencil-barrelled in places that ought to be a touch beefier.
Then there's all the other random greeble and shit, plus the painted markings or decals or whatever the fuck they are. Who has the time to do that shit, then worry about it peeling or flaking under normal wear? Military weapons use stamped or engraved markings for a reason.
e/ I also have no idea how the fuck the bolt assembly even works, though this applies to the AR and BR too. Maybe the carrier is in front of the bolt and all the rods and springs and shit are up front, who knows. I've seen bullpups with mags all the way up back like that before, just not often - Korobov's designs sometimes had that feature, I think.
When designing weapons based on Rule of Cool, practicality is never an option. :suicide:
It's not even cool though.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalcyon
After Arteen's post, I'll admit it: what the fuck?
Still, I love goofy, narmy shit like this (makes me laugh on t he inside, keeps things interesting). At least it's not all entirely generic BS like what we see in CoD or Battlefield.
Battlefield is modeled after actual weapons...
I was talking about the bipeds. >_<Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornman00
Regardless, it's really not much better.
Everything in BF3 and CoD is modeled after real stuff, so same argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
What I don't understand why both the DMR and BR are in the same game >:(
It seems to me in order for both of them work, they would have to take away from some of the good things each had to offer. I liked the DMR in Reach (as long as I played in a zero bloom gametype), but just take it away this time. Leave the BR
BR fires slower and requires four bursts, DMR fires faster and requires five shots?
If the amount of damage an individual receives from either weapon kills in a relatively equal time-frame of each other, then there should be no problem having both on our palette of weapon choices.
DMR would go great for those who are providing on-the-move covering fire (leave the stationary covering fire to snipers). BR would go great for those up ahead who have to react to fire, especially in close range, instead of initiating it.
I don't understand why anyone is bothered by this. They are different weapons with their own strengths and weaknesses, effective ranges, etc. Reach would play quite differently if everyone had BRs and carbines instead of DMRs and needle rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctus
Holy shit, a discussion about guns and design principles and I missed the good parts...
:smith:
No, that's not it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalcyon
The BR in Halo 4 is a 5-shot kill weapon holding 36 rounds per clip. The weapon features slight recoil and spread, making it an effective weapon at medium-long ranges.
The DMR is also a 5-shot kill weapon in Halo 4, and it contains 14 shots per clip. The weapon uses bloom once again, albeit differently than it was in Reach due to a higher reset speed. The DMR is more useful at long-very long ranges, filling the niche between the Sniper Rifle and BR.
5 shot kills? From the Battle Rifle? Are these people serious? I'm starting to believe that nobody at 343 has any design ability at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod
Ah, I didn't know the BR was a 5-shot weapon now. I should check on the other weapons to see if I missed much else.
Plasma Rifle isn't coming back? That was my favorite Covenant weapon of all time. :smith:
What's the problem with a 5-shot kill Battle Rifle? Honestly, kill times are what's important, not necessarily shots to kill. Play the game before judging, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
Because all the xX4Sh07KiLLXx kids were fun to point and laugh at.
Fuck you guys. The Carbine is back. Your DMR and BR weapons are now invalid.
^Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
^Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblehob
I take your Carbine and up you a Light Rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
Your carbine is irrelevant I have a light rifle.
E: Haha shit, ninja'd.
Is precisely why I've refrained from commenting on most of Halo 4 so far. But given the abysmally slow fire rates of weapons in Reach, I have a hard time imagining the kill times are going to be any less shitty than they were there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod
I'll see your Carbine and up you a mother fucking Halo ringQuote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod
/thread
Actually, I wonder if we'll even see a Halo in H4. Technically speaking, there's been a Halo in every major Halo FPS release. Reach has that (legendary?) ending with the PoA nearing Halo after all. And ODST is technically Halo 3: ODST :3
spin-off title made by team assembled specifically to milk franchise is going to be bad #wow #whoahQuote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
I can't wait for the light rifle. 3 shots burst unzoomed and powerful DMR style shots when zoomed? Count me in.
Plasma Rifle is being replaced by the Storm Rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalcyon
I'll take your Light Rifles and shove them up your asses!
And kill times never bothered me. I'm a hunter kind of guy, so I enjoy qualitative over quantitative in Slayer games....BUT OBJECTIVE GAMES ARE ALL ABOUT THE KILLS OMNOMNOMNOM.
But in all seriousness, kill times should never be something that makes or breaks gameplay granted it's within 7 seconds of continuous fire. That's generally the standard I have for most FPS weapons anyways. If I wanted a game with insta-kills, I'd play CoD, Battlefield, or I'd save $120+ dollars and play SWAT/MLG.
I would be completely ok with them milking the franchise if they weren't taking it in such an apparently retarded directiion. Instead of being unique from all the other mainstream shooters Halo is now exactly like them. Woo hoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
It's not the same. :smithicide:Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
i kind of agree, actually, but what can you doQuote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
This makes me sadface only because there are a lot of apparent elements that state so. Honestly though, if the gameplay is good for MP, then I can overlook a lot of the MP aesthetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
I'd be fine with MS milking the franchise is every new Halo game was like ODST.
^Quote:
Originally Posted by Arteen
So, you want games without matchmaking, right :mech2:?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arteen
Or DLC?
Oh, that's right! How could we live without such a wonderful multiplayer system that works so flawlessly, constantly bringing us other players with low IQs and high pings that ragequit the second your team falls behind by 1 point!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornman00
I never have any problems with other players, lag, or rage quitters. Maybe because when I'm playing i'm in a party, or more surprising I get along with everyone on XBL.
this probably isn't a good signQuote:
Originally Posted by Masterz1337
Ok I can see then how they would fit. But I would still rather have the Plasma Rifle over the Storm Rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornman00
I never have problems on Xbox Live matchmaking either.
As for the whole Plasma Rifle bs Storm Rigle argument, I'm actually happy to see something new come along. Sure, the Plasma Rifle and awesome and all, but the Storm Rifle fits much better in a game where there's no dual wielding, just like the Plasma Repeater in Reach.
I don't get what's wrong with doing a PR H1 style, that weapon was pretty scary to go up against in MP (on xbox, the lag and lack of stun killed it on CE)
That's exactly why I love it so much. Few people know of the PR's ability to slow down enemies and give the shooter the upper hand. I think Halo 3 retained some of the stun capacity that the original weapon had, but I haven't been able to play with it enough in Reach due the the Plasma Repeater phasing it out on damn near every map.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterz1337
If the Storm Rifle keeps the classic stun capabilities that the original PR had, I could see myself liking it down the road. If it's actually just like the Plasma Repeater, then I'll leave it on the ground.
Lack of stun in CE? Lag yes, but the stun effect is still there if you manage to land your shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterz1337
In CE it was removed in the stock maps and tag set... but it's still there in PC. Unless there was a patch that changed that.
My default tags still show that the Plasma Rifle still had stun, and I don't think patches apply to individual maps or the tags in them, only parts of the game's code.
I mean, clearly the evidence I present to you all is faulty and should never be trusted like everyone seems to think on Halomaps.
I'm sorry, but that jackass just pissed me off. I know Alpha on a multipurpose bitmap can be used for color change, but he refused to even double check on the bitmap color setup to even confirm or deny whether I was right or not, the little shit. Blue and Alpha maps are interchangeable you fuck nugget, why even bother posting if you don't know what the fuck you are talking about?! Blue isn't reflection, that's red! Why the fuck do you have to be a retard! Double check your shit before posting, dammit! /rant
Yep, your right. Turns out I was thinking of the ghost stun from Xbox.
The Ghost stun was on PC too, but got taken out of CE. Sucks, since the stun made the Ghost brutal against tanks and Hogs.
Nah, removing stun from the ghost was a great move.
Any idea if these are the latest controller layouts? Boxer looks awful. Who the heck puts sprint on the B button?
Kind of relevant post is relevant.
McFarlane Toys releases the Chief with his namesake freezer-box.
It is among some of the greater releases with the Halo 4 Series 1 toys that are now available (a few of them look like jokes to me). The Chief looks like he's been handled with love, and by that I mean he looks like he's been through some serious shit. Plus, that refrigerator looks awesome.
Bumper Jumper looks terrible.
I fixed the game controls, but was too lazy to put it on an image. I copy-pasted it from my "Halo 5 can be better before Halo 4 is released.docx"
Don't ask about Orbital Drop. It's a dream that I'll send off to Frankie so he can crush it.
Basically it is the Reach controls, but you can swap Sprint and your Armor abilities with the D-pad. :iamafag:
I'd be fine if the Storm Rifle didn't have such a similar profile to the Carbine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOOgFUwZfA
CTF footage. Apparently you automatically get an infinite-ammo pistol when you pick up the flag, but you can't drop the flag. Bizarre.
I figured it out.
MS will release the next Halo PC game as a Windows 9 exclusive: Halo 4 9
lawl, 343 / 7.
From reading the comments it looks like even if you have something other than the pistol as your second gun, you'll still have it when you pick up the flag. Also looks like you run at normal speed with the flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arteen
Fine by me. You ran at normal speed with the flag in Halo 1 and it did just fine. Then they tried to force teamwork but, unlike Valve, Bungie has no idea how to encourage team play with in-game play.
ftfyQuote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
Holy hell, even with the crappy off screen video, that is a nice looking map...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arteen
Edit: Anyone else notice the orange power drainer like things at 3:16 and 5:50? Im curious to see what the hell that is :P
I'll have to agree, the multiplayer is looking fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC5-eoJByW4
Some HD CTF footage, loving that assasination, stab the dude in the face with the flag xD
I came.
At a thirty-seven second teaser? You should get that looked at.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/...l?read=1151303
The resupply perk is something that every player should be able to do. Dumb. The explosive perk sounds obnoxious. Well, most of them sound obnoxious.Quote:
Originally Posted by HBO
Glad to see more than 2 grenades types though.
It's the Pulse Grenade, a Promethean grenade that acts like a Power Drainer for around 1-2 seconds, then explodes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblehob
And here's something that will make you guys happy, confirmation that classic Halo 2/3 Mark VI is indeed returning :
Holy shit, that map looks like a good classic Halo 1 map. Wide open, level terrain with some tunnels and two simple bases. None of that close-quarters bullshit in Reach or that atrocity known as Boneyard.
And dat sound design :O
Sometimes all it takes is 37 seconds. :realsmug:Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeKup
I don't mind that players can't pick up grenades off of other players by default. Halo really needed a way for all players NOT to spam grenades.
The more I watch that video the more it reminds me of some Custom Edition maps. Its like a mix between Sniper Canyon Redux and something else, maybe Cliffhanger in a way...
You know, the more I think of it after seeing it in motion, the more I think this game getting to PC wouldn't be so bad. Given it be as open as Custom Edition in terms of content creation of course. Scaleform library interface, tag parsing/manipulation callbacks for Lua, custom game mode slots, dedicated servers as a foundation for connectivity to prevent the XBL ToS from getting in the way, and an open art authoring pipeline of course. I might actually buy it if that were the case.
The high walls and narrow passages in the teaser video reminds me of Infinity. It's too bad they look like they are cell-shaded. Looks really nice, but not what I'd expect to see in a Halo game. Then again, everything else new in Halo 4 isn't anything I'd expect to see in Halo *cough* anime armour *Cough*
Hahahahaha. Oh you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph
Beam rifle is in the game. Yay, I guess.
A man can dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph
Booo. Always hated the beam rifle. It's just a human sniper... but with overheat. Much rather have seen them fix the focus rifle instead so it didn't suck.
Last I checked, they're not using the turd bucket known as Scaleform. Lua is only good if the users are fucking :downs:. Tags aren't meant to be changed at runtime. Megalo scripts already drive the MP engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph
Touché!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornman00
Now all it needs is a way for all players to NOT spam melee! Grenades are actually much more tolerable. I'll take infinite grenades over rapid-fire, two-hit melee kills with lunge assist any day.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEm21t7fRAg
Kinda still getting that "Bungie didn't do Halo right" vibe from 343i. But I'm still looking forward to the game.
Cortana is bonkers too.
And who was it that didn't believe me that the background art for that trailer was a matte painting? Well, there's your fucking proof.
wtf, who the fuck uploads 360p videos anymore
Ha!, loving that they put 117 in braille on the front of the suit xDQuote:
Originally Posted by BobtheGreatII
