Play Halo CE with me instead, ass bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeKup
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Play Halo CE with me instead, ass bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeKup
I second this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
Must have Mark V.
I really like H4 online, but I've been so busy I haven't had any time to play recently :( It makes me sad.
hello, someone who wants to be halo famous should make a video comparing the number of frames in theater it takes to kill a spartan with the saw vs. the ar. 343i i think thinks the saw fires at 20rps but it doesn't, it fires at 15rps, and as a result their brilliant plan for balancing it, even as of the may update:
is a load of shit because the engine doesn't work the way their gameplay people think it does. (in halo, automatic weapons may only fire with single-frame increments in between shots when the trigger is down; due to the 30fps update cycle this means that the saw's desired rate of 20rps [at least in the original retail tags and probably in the current ones given that the same flawed paradigm was in original retail and given the evidence below] is impossible and gets slammed down to 15 rps/1 round every 2 frames [as evident in theater, as of the most recent update as well], meaning it only does 1.5x damage not 2x damage per second compared to the ar). you can verify this by counting frames-to-kill-time in theater w/ a saw vs. an ar; if it is indeed double the dps then you would expect to kill with an ar in roughly 2x the number of frames but instead it is more like 1.5x the time which is consistent with the 20/15 rps fuckup. i counted 32 vs. 46 frames to kill but i am bad at counting so you should verify this yourself and be an independent thinker. at least in the original retail tags the ar bullet uses the "bullet_slow" damage category and the saw uses the "bullet_fast" category, and those seem to have equal damage mods vs. the armor and shield collision materials that players have so this probably isnt the result of fuckery there. i think its just 343i, who ripped the tags and proved that they wanted it to be unprotected.Quote:
thank you for your time
I have never found anything wrong with the SAW before the buff. That just sounds like "Halo 4 is ending soon, so let's make everything unnecessarily stronger to attract more people!"
just stepping in here because this made me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by teh lag
engine code doesn't really equal gameplay code.
I'm doubting that they would have scrapped the weapon logic they inherited from Bungie. That's a lot of work you don't have to do for something that's damn near identical in function.
DPS versus alpha strike models can provide completely different results when it comes to killing things.
Instead of counting frames for kills, look at how much damage something takes from one frame to the next. If the damage is purely linear on high rates of fire, then you know something is up. Otherwise, 343i's dps model could be correct when it comes down to shield/armor resistances. I mean, there is a number that can multiply against x and y so y is 1.5x.
Designers tend to put that number in a character's archetype instead of in weapon specifics. That's the number that manipulates perceived difficulty.
Every Call of Duty game since CoD2 has had game characteristics change based on your FPS. The way the game is programmed makes it so shit cannot update between frames, so jump height, run speed, and weapon rate of fire can vary slightly depending on the number of frames you're generating per second. It's totally possible that the same thing is happening here in Halo.
Yeah, another model for damage-per-second would make me the one full of shit... I was taking a peek at some numbers from the original tags (via the public tool assembly). I was curious if it still was really a thing ingame, so I sat one spartan in front of another, killing with body-shots for either weapon, and then measuring the time per kill in Theater. This is shaky footing since I am just a script kiddie here and I'm not looking at real data for what the most recent stuff is, which is why I said someone else should verify whether this is really the case... But, I was led to my jubilant claims by the following (I think reasonable?) observations:
1) The weapon is (again, as of the original retail maps) set to fire at 20 rps, which is not what is happening.
2) The weapon does fire at 15 rps as observed in-game, and based on prior observations from how Halo's guns behave when using automatic fire, this is what would be expected for a weapon set to fire 20rps.
3) The AR is set to fire at 10 rps and actually fires at 10rps.
4) Both the SAW and the AR are set to do equivalent damage in the original tags (7.5 points). A Spartan has 70 points of shield and 45 points of armor.
5) Both damage groups for the SAW and AR projectile damages ("bullet_fast" and "bullet_slow") have equal (that is, no) damage modifiers versus the armor modifiers used on players ("hard_metal_thin[_hum_spartan]", "energy_shield_thin[_hum_spartan]") according to the "damage table" in the globals tag.
6) This leads to a very straightforward interpretation of a "double damage-per-second" comparison between the two weapons, as one literally does double the damage per second of the other. That it (seems) so cleanly implemented there is my primary reason for believing something would be unexpectedly amiss with the weapon's behavior.
7) Going ingame, the SAW originally took 32 frames (by my count) to kill a Spartan -> 1.06_ seconds.
--To add information: on a default gametype, it took 10 bullets - one every other frame - to remove the shield, and another 6 to kill once the shield was down. H4 provides no health meter but the shield damage appeared consistent from bullet-to-bullet (of course that's just me eyeballing it and the meter does that weird progressive drain where it takes a few frames for the meter to fully disappear after damage...).
--On a 'new' gametype (taken from local history from playing in matchmaking), it took 26 frames; 8 bullets to down the shield and 5 to kill.
8) Going ingame, the AR originally took 46 frames (by my count) to kill a Spartan -> 1.53_ seconds.
--It again took 10 bullets - one every three frames - to remove the shield, and again, another 6 bullets to kill once the shield was down. Shield damage per bullet appeared (?) the same as for the SAWs.
--On a 'new' gametype, it again took 39 frames; 8 bullets to down the shield and 5 to kill.
9) This is obviously not what would be expected in said naive dps model - again given the apparently straightforward intentions of the setup. However, at least the observations from the original gametype are consistent with a naive interpretation of how the tags behave.
I don't know what the current or "real" damage values are or what (if any) outside hidden gameplay things are happening, but at the very least I can say that: as-shipped, the game appears to have something that might not be what it should; after going into the game I saw results consistent with that, both on an original and a new/updated gametype; and that 343i has made a statement that the weapon is, and has been in the past, not what I observed it to be.
I again admit an alternative damage-measuring model could be at work (taking into account weapon accuracy? But the SAW is less accurate than the AR?) but it seems bizarre that the weapon's tags would both happen to appear to obey that simple double-damage-per-second model - and to have a public statement that it does "double damage per second" - if they knew it actually didn't work like that and they were really going for something else... I don't believe 343i has stated that the original wasn't functioning as intended either?