Here's a New Development

What is this rabble? >:U

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Originally Posted by Dwood

Socialism allows those who do no work never to feel the pang of not doing the work, and it makes it harder for those who DO do the work to actually succeed.

Sounds like you're talking about welfare. Welfare exists in my partially Socialist nation of Canada, as well as your Capitalist nation of America. And frankly, it's just the proper thing to do. You want to see stuff get hard for "people who do the work to succeed"? Take it away. Then watch the increase in violent crimes and robberies infest your neighbourhood, because they have no other option.

It doesn't give people the chance to succeed any more than regular capitalism. In fact, if you look at Canada and Britain (Socialist) to America (Capitalist) you will see that America has more people have succeeded than anywhere else in the world. It's just simple facts.

Of course you have more success stories, you have more people. Hell, the State of California has more people in it than the entire country of Canada. And what does that even mean, "has more people that have succeeded"? What census gets handed out asking "have you succeeded?"

A motivated person is going to succeed no matter what. It's all in the mindset of the person.

That's not true. That's impossible.

Oh, and I can't convince you about Socialism unless I can convince you that Human Nature is such that we are lazy at heart. You can't convince ICEE that Socialism is best unless you can convince him that people won't take advantage of being able to be lazy.

Yeah, people will take advantage of it. But you shouldn't be angry at Socialism. It isn't Socialism's fault. Socialism can be implemented properly, given the right way of doing it, such as with healthcare and education, as well as with government aid money, though even I admit, that system needs to be reformed to limit abuse.

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The truth! In bold!

Frankly, Socialism is great. Not hardcore, full-on Socialism, mind you, but a peanut Socialist centre wrapped in a chocolatey Capitalist shell. Y'know, like Canada or the U.S. =__= I'm not even sure why this was brought up...

Mmm... Peanut M&M's of Government...

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Originally Posted by Dwood

A motivated person is going to succeed no matter what. It's all in the mindset of the person.

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That's not true.

Get a crappy math program at your school and see how many physicists comes out the other end.

In my graduating class we had 3 physics degrees. (Myself, Aaron {who went on to grad school I believe} and Joey)... how often do you see that happening?

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Originally Posted by Phopojijo

That's not true.

Get a crappy math program at your school and see how many physicists comes out the other end.

In my graduating class we had 3 physics degrees. (Myself, Aaron {who went on to grad school I believe} and Joey)... how often do you see that happening?

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If you're motivated and in love with what you do you can succeed despite the odds. Heck, look at Einstein. His math teachers dismissed him/wrote him off completely and look what we got out of him.

I'm not saying the success rate's going to be high, but I'm talking about specific types of individuals here not clumps of people.

Also, what's with the Tags at the bottom of the thread?

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Originally Posted by Dwood

I'm not saying the success rate's going to be high

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Originally Posted by Dwood

A motivated person is going to succeed no matter what.

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=_______=

We get what you're saying, but you're making out Socialism to be a baby-killer, and Capitalism to be a miracle drug.

What they're saying isn't true is that motivation by itself is enough. It takes more than that, and a lot of what it takes more if is out of anyone's control.

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Originally Posted by Dwood

If you're motivated and in love with what you do you can succeed despite the odds. Heck, look at Einstein. His math teachers dismissed him/wrote him off completely and look what we got out of him.

I'm not saying the success rate's going to be high, but I'm talking about specific types of individuals here not clumps of people.

Also, what's with the Tags at the bottom of the thread?

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And specific types of individuals develop immunity to HIV.

You can point to outliers -- but they had an opportunity to capitalize on. (The hookers' case it was genetics)

You're neglecting:

1) Some people may not have ANY opportunity, at all.
2) A lot of people cannot succeed because their environment "taught" them they cannot succeed. The Government needs to change that environment by socialized education and social programs that prevent people from getting into debt because their gallbladder explodes... otherwise it will perpetuate.

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Originally Posted by Phopojijo

And specific types of individuals develop immunity to HIV.

You can point to outliers -- but they had an opportunity to capitalize on. (The hookers' case it was genetics)

You're neglecting:

1) Some people may not have ANY opportunity, at all.
2) A lot of people cannot succeed because their environment "taught" them they cannot succeed. The Government needs to change that environment by socialized education and social programs that prevent people from getting into debt because their gallbladder explodes... otherwise it will perpetuate.

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1) Thanks for that Article. It was quite mind-opening.
2) The Article stated that it was possible you develop immunity to it by repeated exposure, not genetics, however I am sure that genetics played a large role. (/offtopic)

3) Why would I believe in that government if, in Washington DC, Chicago, Cleveland, Memphis, Milwaukee, and Oakland, under those same principles, less than 50% of the students there graduate?

Genetic HIV Resistance Deciphered

Yeah I forgot to quote the second article.

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I don't understand what you're getting at... if you're somehow stating that "Blue states" have less than 50% of students graduate...

... well...

It's kinda well documented that nations with higher levels of socialism have higher education levels.

See page 6... smaller bar = better. Canada and the UK kinda -- well -- their average rankings added together still beats the USA. The source is UNICEF sooo yeah.

I think that's a sign that you need to embrace Socialism a bit and buff up your education levels.

Well I'm Canadian so I'm not trying to move to a socialist state -- since everything I've been talking about has been implemented here albeit it could be better. I've pretty much succeeded in life due to the social programs that were created.

The problem is I want the world to be on the path where everyone has their own free will whether to succeed or fail -- indiscriminate of their race, gender, or income level.

This world has practical applications... problems will be solved much easier because there's so many more... and different... views and opinions working to solve it...

... and it has the nice application that you know if someone failed -- it simply was not because they had no choice BUT to fail.

You may like the USA how it is now... but that kind-of defeats the purpose of "Earning what you deserve" since it depends heavily on who and where you were born to.

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Overall, these data show that some countries do a very much better job than others in containing educational disadvantage. A child starting school in Canada, Finland, or Korea, for example, has both a higher probability of reaching a given level of educational achievement and a lower probability of falling well below the average than a child starting school in Denmark, Germany, Greece, Hungary, or the United States.

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And that's the harsh facts about your nation.

So as I said before...

Socialism is the tool to provide maximum accessibility to the Free and Open market.