That's normal to extremists, not the average shepherd or villager.
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That's normal to extremists, not the average shepherd or villager.
True I suppose
leaving this topic i apparently don't know enough :(
Not the governments, fool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterz1337
The militia and insurgency units that form after governmental collapse in preparation for civil war or perhaps for self defense. I'm not talking about negotiating within the context of the war, but within the context of occupation.
Last I checked the Taliban controlled the government Pre-Invasion.
Actually, wikipedia states.
Quote:
The Taliban (Pashto: طالبان ṭālibān, also anglicised as Taleban; translation: "students") is a Sunni Islamist, predominately Pashtun movement[3] that governed Afghanistan from 1996 until 2001, when its leaders were removed from power by Northern Alliance and NATO forces.
Hey guys, meet me in my backyard at 9:00, we're going to go overthrow the government via a web forum!
Don't forget the greenday CDs!
:ssh:Quote:
Originally Posted by legionaire45
Did I say to assume you were an Iraqi prior to the war? No. I said, imagine if the place that you so contently live in (in this case, America) was occupied by a different nation with different ideals from us. Stow your "but American military is da best," I'm talking hypothetically here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterz1337
Of course, the people in power and the patriots would be against it, and the general population would dislike them due to culture clash. Much like how the insurgents and radicals were against it.
First things first... I read like the first 3 pages...
Ever since I saw the movie Charlie Wilsons War and did some minor research into the facts behind that whole event, I have a completely different view on our government and the problems it faces.
The important things I got from that movie and research was that the reason everything over there is so fucked up in the first place is because we left it like that long ago we didn't fix the mess. No education system was put into place and many of the elders and older people died fighting a war that they wanted to fight, but was easy to blame on us because of how we funded it without sending troops.
So popular beliefe was that we used them to fight our war, and fundamentalist radicals enforced this idea further (simillar to how everyone on this board thinks there right, except they were weak and uneducated so it was easy to spread misinformation).
So this ideaology grew, and got worse over time.
The best quote from Charlie Wilson that gets used at the end of the movie wasIt makes me look at the whole middle east conflict much differently, while I believe much of what happened in iraq wasn't necessary, once we were there if we just up and left things would have almost definately gotten worse, bush fucked up, but he could have fucked up way worse than he did.Quote:
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world. And the people who deserved the credit are the ones who made the sacrifice. And then we fucked up the endgame.
As for Obama, lets just hope he plays a good endgame.
E: Recap, in short there is no real way for us to just leave in any short ammount of time, and doing so would be way more catastrophic to us and others than actually staying and fixing things would be.
The only thing that does worry me I admit is, if we can even fix things, or did we already go too far, and perhaps leaving before we screw anything else up might be better. Obama seems to think its fixable... the thing is even if its not fixable and we do leave, theres always going to be that threat... leaving was what created that threat in the first place.
I think you're misinterpreting my post. Or rather, how can you ask us to think how we would feel if our country were to be occupied by a different nation, without us even knowing what the state of our country is? It doesn't have to be iraq, it can afganistan, pakistan, gaza strip, colombia or some african nation in civil war. If things are bad, I would't care who came in, long as it was someone better than before. If the Cuban government took over america, I would probably be pretty pissed, because things are good here. If I was living in afganistan, and Sadam came marching in to take us over, I'd probably be a lot happier, even if things got pretty shitty. If Canada took over America, well, I wouldn't be worried, but I probably wouldn't be outraged either.Quote:
Originally Posted by p0lar_bear
I don't know where you got the idea I think American military "is the best". The military is a tool of our government, and like I, the Afghanis and the Iraqi's were happy to have us roll in. Then of course, the insurgents helped bring everything down to a shitfest. Things have to get worse before they get better, and the general public opinion you hear about have got cold feet once the going got tough.
Stop right there. You're reading into my posts too much to try and prove a moot point.
All I said was that America coming in to lollerrape Saddam was a shock to their system, and to make an example, tried to put things into perspective with a hypothetical comparison.