So I heard Obama is now "One of the boys" :awesome:

Whaaaa? You brought up a stupid comparison. And you're telling me to stop posting because I disagree with it? I don't know what your reason for having a bad attitude towards me is today, maybe it's from my posts you warned the other day? If it is then get over it. Snaf and I spar on the forums but we don't let it spill over into other threads (or our friendship). If you don't want to take a page out of my book, take it out of his and don't degrade the argument and thread over a stupid grudge.


Onto the man topic....

Any change of government and lifestyle to a people is a going to be a shock to their system. It was for the US when we first gained our independence, and it was a shocking change in government and life for the Germans and Japanese after WW2.

Your hypothetical comparison would make sense if our country was as barbaric nation. You say imagine if the place I contently lived in was suddenly occupied, what would I feel? I'd be angry, unless it was a change for the better. The difference is, in neither Iraq or Afghanistan were the people satisfied with their lives. They CHEERED when we liberated them.

To simplify your comparison, you're asking how would we feel if a the government came in and told us all we had to get rid of our old consoles and have PS2s. Well if I had an Atari, hell ya, I'd be happy for the change. If I had a 360 I'd say fuck no. Afghanistan and Iraq are the people with Ataris, the US is the people with the 360s. Do you understand what I mean when your comparison is invalid?

And I don't even know how Iraq came up in our convo, seeing as how I was talking about Afghanistan in the OP you quoted.

Masters I have no idea where you get your information from, but the Afghans and Iraqis definitely did not welcome Americans with arms open.

Even now, its pretty 50/50 about whether they like us being their. The majority of people are now just wary of the forces in Afghanistan. They are worried that the troops are attracting Taliban forces to attack and innocent people are getting caught in the crossfire. And they have ever right to be worried, considering the highest amount of casualties in both wars are innocent civilians.

You all need to stop watching the news and start watching independent documentaries, which show what REALLY is going on.

I'll tell you why I dont like the fact more troops are being sent it.

Firstly, if the forces there are being stretched and is causing a big problem and our forces are being killed because of the storage, then yes I agree something needs to be done.

Sending more troops in is sending more troops into harms way.

Right now my best interests is within the men and women that make up the soldiers that fight for us. The middle east will never be perfect, the way of life there will always be less of the western world. Its good we went there attempting to help them, but we cant afford (resources wise) to be in there indefinitely holding their hand.

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Originally Posted by Limited

You all need to stop watching the news and start watching independent documentaries, which show what REALLY is going on.

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Woah there, a good majority of those "independent documentaries" are made by anomaly-hunting conspiracy theorists with a political agenda. What you should do is stop watching those and start reading peer-reviewed papers which analyse both the little details and the bigger picture.

E:

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Originally Posted by Limited

The middle east will never be perfect, the way of life there will always be less of the western world.

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ugh

I wonder what the people over there REALLY think... It's not hard to believe that they don't like us, and that they weren't thrilled when we showed up in the first place, but on the other hand, it isn't hard to believe that a majority DID want us there, and that the liberal media's been playing up the jihadist, death-to-america angle. Hmm... we need some sort of raw feed news station. Screw toning down the violence and drama, I want to see the real deal.

I'll bet nobody in this thread really knows what's going on over there, including myself.

My friend is in the air force, and he'll be deploying to Iraq some time this year. I'll ask him what it's like when he gets there.

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Originally Posted by thehoodedsmack

I wonder what the people over there REALLY think... It's not hard to believe that they don't like us, and that they weren't thrilled when we showed up in the first place, but on the other hand, it isn't hard to believe that a majority DID want us there, and that the liberal media's been playing up the jihadist, death-to-america angle. Hmm... we need some sort of raw feed news station. Screw toning down the violence and drama, I want to see the real deal.

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Here's one from "the peace keeping mission" in Afghanistan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2r3C0PJ1LM

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Originally Posted by Limited

The middle east will never be perfect, the way of life there will always be less of the western world.

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Heh, you should look up this thing called the crusades and shit, and British Empire. You might understand why the living standard has fallen in the ME. It's the fault of the European and British empires

not only that, but the Middle East was at a time technologically superior to most everyone in the old world

And there was a time when China dominated everyone else. Crusades fucked shit up, and then Imperialism made it worse. Europe screwed the Middle East and Africa over (and China), US and Great Britain screwed South America over.

Also, Limited, the Taliban would waltz right back into Afghanistan and take over within a decade if we left now. Then there would be the bad kind of dictatorship, at least just as much civilian killing, and we'd have another hostile country on our hands (Afghanistan right now is not a hostile nation, it just has hostiles in it, like Iraq...North Korea and Iran are hostile Nations). Also, there have always been more civilian casualties in war since World War II, where 95% of the deaths were civilian.

Also, why do you say "did not welcome Americans?" You are forgetting that it was a COALITION of primarily American and British forces that rolled over Iraq. Your country is just as guilty. We started it, UK followed (and then pulled a Russia on the deal). So I ask you, who's the more foolish? Is it the fool or the fool who follows him?

Patriotic garbage indeed.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Then there would be the bad kind of dictatorship,

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Is there a good kind?