On Debates and Debating

Let's have a bit of a rundown of how to conduct ourselves during discussion of a Hot-Button Issue, so as to avoid things such as those that have been happening for the past few months. There was once a time when I believed that we could have discussions without these childish rules, but evidently there's quite a few children here pretending to be members.

So, someone posts a topic! And it gets you riled up! SO riled up!! Or, you see other people getting riled up! SO riled up!! What should you do?

Make an edgy, cynical comment about stereotypes?
Decide that if shit's going down it's gonna go down hard?
Pwn a noob?
Make a snarky comment that devalues the meaning of the word "troll"?
Go the all-sarcasm route?
Tell people to flat-out stop posting because they don't have the right perspective?
Declare that someone who's been here all this time is, in fact, an idiot in disguise?

No.
No.
NO.
NO.
No, you don't.

Why not? Because then, for whatever reason, it makes these discussions fall apart and become meaningless back-and-forth between people who are absolutely convinced that they're right. Perhaps with some red and yellow flying around and most likely with a closed thread. I'm pretty disappointed that we can't keep our collective cool in these threads and take a little sarcasm or whatever; the fact is that we evidently can't and so, rather than continue this cycle that will inevitably lead to otherwise good members racking up detentions and bans for unrelated offenses (we are a games & modding site after all, not a center of political and ethical philosophy), I think we need to establish a few things that shouldn't be happening.

I don't mind if you'll make a comment about perspective. When you decide to turn that comment into a declaration that nobody else should be posting, you've entered the problem zone. I don't (well, shouldn't) mind people weaving some jokes into their arguments. When your entire post is nothing but a joke, you've entered the problem zone (at least, when people don't recognize it for what it is). And for God's sake, everyone needs to calm down and stop throwing around "troll" like middle-schoolers with obscenities.

If you're going to swing in on a chandelier of facetiousness and ill-will, don't bother.
If you're going to save the day for the internet and single-handedly call out all the buffoons from your mighty throne of superiority, don't bother.
If you're not going to put some clear thought and effort into a post, don't bother.

Yes, we should be allowed to have a lighter, kinder atmosphere where people can crack a few jokes to make their point. We can't handle that though. We've had about 10 threads in the past 3 months or so that have become some form of debate or another, and very few of them have ended in anything other than verbal diarrhea and a staff member telling everyone to shut up. We've also had a few staff members behaving in less-than-exemplary manners, but that's another story for another day. What matters now is that these threads stop ending this way. A debate section may or may not be coming - that depends on if the staff team can get itself together and do it or not. Until then, I ask that you all stop being so damn crazy when it comes to topics discussing anything controversial.

Some of you reported posts. For that I'm at least grateful, and I'm sorry that lack of action - on my part as well as other staff members - led to this and once again added to the perception that the site is headed by incompetence. I accept blame for this and in the future I will try to handle situations like this better, so that people don't have the opportunity to turn them into this. The thing is, very few posts here would actually be bad on their own. Who can't take a little joke? Who can't spot an obvious troll for humorous effect? Well, evidently we can't. Not when we're all so excited and not when there are so many of them in one place. I have had (and continue to have, no matter how many times I admit this) too much faith that we as a site are capable of handling a touch of bumpiness in arguments.

I've been criticized for locking threads too easily, which is why I'm reopening the Wikileaks thread in hopes that it won't become a nightmare so easily after I've taken the time to write this. There are many infractions and warnings that deserve to be given out here. They will be taken care of in due time - a few users are on the threshold of a stay in Detention and I don't have the time to think those decisions through right now. Until then, I hope that you guys don't make me add to the list I have right now of posts that are getting a visit from the mod fairy in a few hours.

Color me impressed, I've agreed the whole time.

This isn't stickied because?

In case anyone TL;DR's, here's one thing you should be taking from this: Conflicting opinion != troll. teh lag understates how often this word is used incorrectly these days (not just here, but everywhere).

+rep when I can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flibitijibibo

This isn't stickied because?

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Because when you sticky a thread nobody reads it :downs:

tbqh I was thinking about ranting about this myself but thanks for sparing me the trouble; that be wisdom in that thar post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flibitijibibo

This isn't stickied because?

In case anyone TL;DR's, here's one thing you should be taking from this: Conflicting opinion != troll. teh lag understates how often this word is used incorrectly these days (not just here, but everywhere).

+rep when I can.

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Yes, but it doesn't help when people deliberately act in a way that provokes another.

well stop looking for excuse's to take offence or report it.

Let the staff decide if it's worth doing anything about and dont take the bait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ßðÐŻÍ££å

well stop looking for excuse's to take offence or report it.

Let the staff decide if it's worth doing anything about and dont take the bait.

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Excuse me for my belligerence, but the staff rarely do their job. :shrug:

then find another place thats up to your high standards and post there.

These are the rules, follow them and you'll be fine, if your gunna keep that shit up you aint gunna last.
simple as that.

I can guarantee you that everything that ever gets reported gets evaluated and assessed, just because it's not the outcome you where expecting or wanted does not mean we are lazy incompetent and swept it under the rug.
everything.
If you want to play by the absolute rules with no leniency at all then say good bye to sarcasm, jokes, puns... and an enjoyable forum.

*Timo for mod 2011*

But seriously, this is all good and positive and all, but asking people to play nice/deleting bad posts < handing out the odd infraction. Making detention threads sucks (I normally temp banned people instead of sitting down for half an hour finding posts and composing a nice way to say buck up or get out), but it gets the message across much better when a post appears red to everyone instead of deleted - to everyone, not just the person getting infracted. It also stops people bitching at a few people for not volunteering enough time to one small, relatively insignificant website on the internets.


e: i'm sleepy, i'll add to this later (probably not)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Good_Apollo PM on his infractiom

Lawl, another butthurt mod.

At least teh_lag can own up to his shortcomings and the state of the forums.

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Ok guys, I guess I'm butt hurt. I'll rally the moderators up so we can all post our own threads detailing our shortcomings (because the people we infract obviously don't have any themselves) and get TheGhost to make a State of the Union Modacity address.


Being snarky gets us no where. Got a problem? Like Bod said, take it up with a mod. Got a problem with mods? Bring it up to an admin, and be sure to have the backing documentation to support your claim just as Timo says we do for perma-bans. Don't just go around calling stuff gay, fail, or trolling in a thread made by a moderator trying to bring some sense to these forums.