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A man was shown apparently being shot twice with a Taser gun by police in Nottingham in a mobile phone video taken by a bystander and posted on YouTube yesterday.
The footage has prompted calls from human rights groups for the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) to investigate the incident and review the use of Taser guns by police."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...man-with-taser
This kind of thing pisses me off to no end.
Police did that because the guy was resisting the arrest... Anyone with half a brain would stop resisting when they threaten to use a fucking taser gun. Not only that, he was on pressed with charges of bodily harm. I really can't understand how this is serious police brutality, the only reason this is an issue is because someone recorded it.Quote:
Nottinghamshire police told the Press Association that officers were trying to arrest the 40-year-old man after they were called out by door staff at one of the city's nightspots; he was later charged on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm.
Well when your being fucking tazered you are going to squirm.
Seriously, you ever had a serious electrical shock?
The fact they kept tazering him even though he was shaking due to the shocks and then being punched in the head is what pisses me off.
You only need to shoot someone once with a taser and then handcuff them, but we obviously don't know what went on. The function of a taser is to disable someone, which is obviously what they did. You can't read an article and be an expert.
edit: I don't know if you understand how a taser works. You don't hold the trigger and keep on discharing into them, it's for a set amount of time. The guy was obviously resisting arrest, after the first tase, so they did it again.
Ok then, have you? Don't describe to me something like that, IF you have no clue what it's like either. He resisted arrest, which is why he was hit twice. If the taser didn't knock him out, nor the punches, that's why they did it again. Nothing like that should happen to the majority of goers here. The police wouldn't just do that out of the blue mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
Also masters is right, we don't know what went on before the guy started recording, he mighta hit someone or something.
Yes i have had serious electrical shocks before, a few times involving 240 mains voltage due to a project i was doing at college a while back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco
I could get more sources on this if you wish but from all the coverage i have seen implied the man was pretty much disabled after the first shock and considering the current is rather high im inclined to say the tazer would easily cause all the muscles to contract which would be why his legs were bent each time after being shocked.
[voltages for these things range from 25kv to 500kv but its the current that counts, 30mA will kill a full grown adult where as 8-15mA will cause muscles to contract.]
I've got qualifications in electronics and health&safety and to me what the police did was out of bounds for health and safety, using your elbow to hit someone in the side of the head could cause brain trauma, shocking the man several times is not good for the heart either, medical conditions aside it could cause cardiac aneurysm.
If the guy is resisting arrest then they are going to taser him.
If the guy is still resisting then they tase him again.
If he is still resisting then they tase him and beat him.
And one tase doesn't always disable someone. Obviously he was still resisting.
Seriously, have you ever watched COPS?
Did you not read what i just said?Quote:
Originally Posted by RecycleBin
...
Yes, and you are wrong. I could be struck by 2 million volts of electricity but if it doesn't have enough ampage it's not going to do much.
Like I said, tasers don't always work.
Wasn't the elbow though, I think the police did all this to make sure he wasn't a public threat. They would not of tasered him a second time if he wasn't resisting. Possibly drunk as well. Now I know that when you're drunk, the alcohol is a depressent, but it can cause violent things. Perhaps this guy really had no clue what he was doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
I would have at least pistol whipped him :rolleyes:. I don't have anything to say about the whole tazzard thing, but obviously it's not a fun thing when it's you getting tazzard.
You're grasping at straws here =sw=warlord. I've taken classes in law enforcement and the only iffy thing here going on is when that one officer punched him in the face, even then, it's not brutality. Ideally, he should have been handcuffed as soon as the first tase was done, but tasing him again because he's trying to resist isn't brutality.
Protip: current does not equal voltage, amperage does.Quote:
Originally Posted by RecycleBin
Therefore i am not wrong you misinterpreted what i said.
You've done american law enforcement, not UK law enforcement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterz1337
Laws differ between countries.
Where's limited when you need him...
Did i not point out being subjected to a electrical pulse with strong enough current could cause the body to shake due to muscle contractions?
That looks like exactly whats going on there.
Looks exactly to what happened to someone who was in my class when we were doing tests with a lesson in health and safety.
also im pretty sure it is not ok to cause brain trauma especialy when you want to charge someone because that could alter the defence.
Let me stick my finger in an electric outlet. Now I'm an expert too!!!
So now with both our experience, how do you propose the cops should have handled the situation?
I would suggest they used the taser once, while he was on the floor recovering from the shock they should have had one officer pin him to the ground while the other hand cuffed him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterz1337
Can you please state the differences. Of course, different countries have different laws but maybe it would be nice to learn them because I might go to the UK some day :D. Do you know anything about American law enforcement by the way? I mean it seems you should know since you are stating that they are different with law enforcement.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
They were obviously trying to hand cuff him after tazering him once, but he still didn't let his hands free to be cuffed - so they tazed him again. Punching seemed a bit too much, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
You know what I think? No big deal. If you're a belligerent asshole causing bodily harm to someone else, you deserve to get tazzed in the first place, and if you are dumb enough to resist after that, have a nice day, get some more.
Sounds like a personal problem to me. I couldn't give a fuck less about some fool recording it on his cellphone and the media (and you) sensationalizing it.
All i know of american law enforcement is what i've seen from programmes like road wars and street crime, from what i've seen most law enforcement offciers over there carry guns i've yet to see a officer over here carry a hand gun on a street patrol.Quote:
Originally Posted by PopeAK49
I learned how important subtle differences between laws were from when i had issues with a company in scotland and there being slight differences between scottish law and english law.
So from what i had learned from that experience leads me to say comparing american law enforcement classes to english law enforce is just a no go.
@timo, it sounded like they were shouting him to straighten his legs but if he has all his muscles contracting that would be very hard to do.
i've been hit by 240v from a computer power supply unit once and i could not feel my arm for most of the day due to all the muscles contracting which were squashing the nerve ending, it wore off after a few hours but i dare say a laser could be a very nasty experience usualy it takes 30 minutes for someone to recover which is relatively short but i dare say they could still feel a tingle after probably not as long though due to lower current than said psu.
V=IR, where V is voltage in volts, I is current in amperes, and R is the resistance in ohms. It seems he resisted too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
it sounds pretty justified here. If you're trying to hurt people, you deserve to get tasered. You keep trying to resist, you just get tasered more and more until it's safe to handcuff you.
no tasering incident is worse than the one that happened right here in my airport (Vancouver) where a newly arrived Polish immigrant, who was getting increasingly agitated (no sleep, zero help from the immigration officers), got tasered to death by four cops (who are sadly keeping their badges). Witnesses said the Polish guy wasn't trying to be violent, he was throwing chairs around to get attention to his plight, and basically everything was a complete mistake.
The power supply caused your arm to be numb, but was it able to freely move still? If tazers caused a person to contract up into the fetal position and prevent them from moving from that position, they would be never be used. The guy was still resisting.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
Also, not really sure what you meant by "current does not equal voltage, amperage does."Quote:
Originally Posted by ArteenV=IR, where V is voltage in volts, I is current in amperes, and R is the resistance in ohms. It seems he resisted too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
Current is measured in amperes...
And like Arteen said, V does not equal I. Because you have a resistor (V=IR), that changes everything. High resistance = low amperage, and low resistance = high amperage, assuming V stays the same.
They should have just smacked him across the head with a baton :| Tazers are more trouble then they're worth. Seriously, just knock him out and get it over with.
Striking someone in the head with a object IS police brutality. The only time they can do that is in a life or death situation, like if you have some guy on top of you trying to stab or choke you.
I like the way people whine when the cops have to shoot a kid dead for coming at them with a knife, and then when they're issued tasers, they complain about them using them. Yes, there should be strict guidelines explaining when it is and isn't appropriate and harsh penalties for misuse, but no, there shouldn't be a push to remove the taser from use or heavily restrict it.
At the end of the day, what's really needed is a more efficient way of weeding out the good cops (who want to make a difference and fight crime) from the bad cops (who want to shoot people).
they had a guy driving his car down here, they rolled down the windows AND TASERED A MOVING VEHICLE THROUGH THE MUTHA FUCKIGN WINDOW
BAN TASERS NOW.
It's a fucking bullshit police brutality weapon that doesnt leave a mark, is easy to exploit and keeps them clean.
In QLD they held a girl down and tasered her inner thigh.
Why do we give these useless tax collecting fucks more power.
RAGE
Just a question; how is this brutality? This is EXACTLY what I think the Police is supposed to do: use whatever means necessary to protect the populous.
BULLSHIT.Quote:
Originally Posted by ßðÐŻÍ££å
On point tasers might not leave a mark but most cops carry those launchy stabby tasers and those fuckers leave a MARK.
I got tazed for a gunshow. I was like "heh, go for it" I dont know I was feeling pretty head strong because I had two girls with me. Anyways, forgetting that they shoot out spikes, I was like "wait for the shock...."
Then I got STAB JAM ZAP.
Left two purple circles on my lower stomach. Damn close to my giblets.
Yes, your right they should be regulated, and they are.
There are certain places allowed to be tazed and stuff like that.
But fuck, try it out. Its enough incentive to get me to drop still when a cop would tackle me.
I bet that girl was resisting while they held her down.
yes let's shoot everyone dead or beat their skulls in instead!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ßðÐŻÍ££å
ps fuck tha police all cops are shitheads!!!
please bodie don't be an ignoramus, i don't want to have to roast you publicly for it
thats not what i'm saying god dammit.
man i went to school with teachers who used to get beaten with fuckign phone books for the very same reason.
They're a nasty peice of control work these cunts shouldant have because it will be abused.
Yes, let's just ban everything that could possibly be abused and go back to living in caves while we're at it.
Get a grip. If they're being abused, complaints will be made, investigated, and dealt with.
Or we could go to an eye for an eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Taze and beat them back.
it's not about wether it can be abused but how easliy it can.
my brother got pulled up for riding without a helmet on a push bike 100m's to the shops.
They hand braked in front of him slide out and nearly took him out on the bike, then sat there for the next hour tryign to provoke him so they could be the shit out of him.
there where 3 of them.
at the end of it they where like
"so kid how old are you"
"i'm 18. it's my birthday today"
"great! old enough to receive a fine."
wrote out a ticket and fined him with a message attached to it
"happy birthday from the queensland police"
YEAH LETS GIVE THESE FUCKS MORE POWER THATS MORE EASLIY ABUSED
GOOD STRATEGY
Get your fucking head straight. 90% of these people are power hungry abusive assholes who get off on this shit and i know this first hand.
the last thing we need is to give these cunts more power.
And i didnt make a commetn about shooting people that come at the cops, i think it's a fucking lowzy argument for taser's used by ignorant cunts living in a fucking dream world away from reality and away from any actual experience first hand of what these cunt fucks are actually like.
"Justify, those that die.
by wearing the badge they're the chosen whites."
Just because you've had one or two bad encounters with a cop doesn't mean every single of them is a power hungry bastard.
one or two?
mate these guys are the reason i've been fighting my depression for the last 18 months.
The police aint police, they're fucking tax collectors.
mmyes all police are power-tripping fucktards i see!
*makes generalisations based on no facts at all, claims personal experiences with certain police are an accurate depiction of the entire police force*
e/ now i think about it, i really don't object to taking their tasers away, any kid who rushes a cop and has a knife in their hand deserves to be removed from the gene pool no matter how pig-headedly ignorant their parents are of the fact their kid is a waste of oxygen
For fucks sake rossmum way to take things out of perspective.
I didn't complain about the tasers i was complaining about the wrong use of them, one jolt from a fucking taser is enough to fucking knock someone to the ground which is what their designed for.
And that attitude about people being killed is the exact kind which i find very distastefull, killing a individual doe's not just affect one person it affects alot of people friends, family members friends of grieiving friends.
It's not as straight cut as you seem to make it out to be so quit your fucking authortarianism and look at the bigger picture.
I have stated many times now why i am against using tasers more than once in such a short space, all in all i would preffer tasers being used than live ammunition as misunderstandings happen all the time and the whole "suicide by cop" deal is a whole bunch of bullshit, if someone slowly walks up to you and you shoot them then claim it was suicide by cop does that make it ok?
Use of lethal force is only to be used in self defense of equal or greater threat.
-rep me if you want but im getting rather sickened by the people who have a authortarian approach to dealing with things, wasn't authortarianism the whole reason world war 2 started in the first place?
Wow, flare up some more.
It's common fucking sense. NSW police are all armed. Running at someone with a knife is about as hostile a gesture as they come. Common sense would dictate that trying to (or at least giving the appearance of trying to) stab a cop is not really that bright, since they can and will shoot to kill in life-or-death situtations. It's no fault of theirs, no fault of mine, and I honestly don't really care who it affects because they plainly did fuck all to prevent it. If the kid was parented properly or had any friends who truly gave a shit, they wouldn't even consider threatening police, let alone running at them with a weapon. Don't bother getting all morally high-and-mighty on me, because it's their own damn fault it happened and it's about time people started taking responsibility for their own actions, instead of their parents getting on current affairs programs and crying about their 'harmless little baby' expecting us to side with them.
If you want someone taking things out of perspective, why not just read Bodie's posts? Considering I wasn't specifically addressing you but rather bringing up a relevant piece of information (people over here ARE calling for their removal), I don't think I took anything out of perspective at all. I didn't even mention your name or quote your post in mine, so thanks for jumping to the conclusion I was responding to your post.
And no, some mad cunt wanting to blame Germany's problems on the Jews and Japan getting uppity about not having any natural resources of its own is what started WWII. Do feel free to try again, though.
e/ oh and personally I'd be more worried about the families of that kid's intended victims (should he have lived long enough to actually kill someone) than the family which clearly failed to prevent it from happening.
Then again, I'm one of those freaks who actually thinks people should shoulder the blame for their own fuckups and not mope about to try bring everyone else down.
I was under the understanding the whole idea of having a police baton was for that exact scenario, some comes at you with a close quaters weapon you can defend yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
there are plenty of people who have had normal up brinings and have stilled turned out to be bad and it wasn't due to the people they were with either, i knew a guy who had it pretty bad hung about with junkies all the time had no where to go these days hes training in law to become lawyer at some point.
Yes because all know who the real high and mighty ones are, i should never challenge your authority.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
My point remains, nothing is as straight cut as you make out so don't go saying it is out of ignorance.
There are some people who act out in a cry for help for which ever reason, i know a girl who now gone off the rails after something happened she had a reasonable family was studying at college do you suggest that instead of listening to the cry for help she should be shot dead?
I agree there are many parents who need to grow the fuck up and pull the reins for their offspring, but the authorities also need to take responsibility for their actions just as much as those who they are paid to serve and protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
I was not aware there was such a movement, i guess im wrong for assuming you was taking it out of perspective and in a big enough man to accept i was wrong there so i appologise.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Tasers as much as i have said are dangerous are far less lethal than a live firearms side arm, i advocate their use but only if their regulated and are used as designed, if first arrest was unsuccessfull and suspect becomes violent use taser to knock them to the floor then do the standard pin to the ground and cuff them, Not shock them twice and punch them to the face untill their out cold and bleeding.
I say again, wasn't autharianism the reason germany ended up fighting, trying to occupy other countries such as poland as well as blaiming germanys issues with jews.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
I was under the understanding the whole idea of having a taser was so you wouldn't have to risk getting stabbed like you would with a baton, and also to take down people armed with longer-range weapons without killing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
Oh, so it's just fine to try and stab a cop to death as long as you get yourself a degree and a job afterwards? There's a difference between falling in with the wrong crowd and doing some stupid things and actually trying to end another person's life in cold blood.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
I love the way how whenever someone starts an idiotic line of argument only to have me shoot them down with some fucking rational arguments, it suddenly becomes Ross the Terrible trying to keep the working man down or some bullshit. Don't you dare try and blame me for the fact that your logic is flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
I don't doubt there was more to it, but the kid CHARGED A COP. WITH A KNIFE. WITH THE INTENT TO WOUND OR KILL.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
I suppose they should've asked him nicely what his intent was before opening fire.
If it endangers another person's life for no good reason? Yes, unless it can be avoided. In that case, it couldn't. Have fun trying to persuade the family that it was a 'cry for help' and the shooting was 'unjustified' if it happens again and the attacker succeeds in killing someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
Yes, and that's why things like the IPCC and its counterparts (not sure what ours is called) exist for. If a cop tases the shit out of someone unfairly, they are well within their rights to complain and ALL complaints MUST be investigated.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
Don't forget the wall of paperwork they're obligated to do themselves, not to mention that quite often it's investigated whether there's a complaint or not.
Accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
The problem is that not everyone will go down the first time, much the same way as it can take several seconds solid of capsicum spray or a few actual lethal shots to bring someone down. This is especially true of people who are high on shit like PCP, people who are running at a flat sprint with the intent to kill, and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
No, it had fuck all to do with it. The Allies pretty much fucked Germany over unfairly after WWI and Germany resented it (understandably; WWI wasn't even their fault, but they copped the blame). Along came Hitler with rash plans to rebuild Germany and his anti-Semitic bullcrap, to give the people a common enemy. While the Nazi regime was authoritarian in the extreme, that had nothing at all to do with the beginning of WWII. It was a matter of pride and the vision of Germany being as great as it once was that led to the invasion of other countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
e/ I should probably clarify that I'm not exactly jumping up and down every time someone dodgy gets shot by the cops, but I'm not about to start bawling my eyes out and calling blue murder, either. It's their choice, it's their life, and there's nothing I personally can do about it. The worst part is the waste of a life which may well have been a good one had they not decided to go looking for trouble.
Sometimes you have to put all your soppy emotions away and look at the bigger picture. I know that's both cliche and pretty cold, but it's the honest truth.
Mate my stories and experience's are not one off experiences and i have alot of friends and alot of relatives to fucking prove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Some cops are alright
But the majority where i live (i cant vouch for other areas) are fucked up in the extreme.
What perspective is their to get? Punching and kicking a man while he's down is alright and acceptable? Taseing the inside of a girls leg: the cops where actually going to release 1 part of the video surveillance of what happened, BUT they where denied because that it was a blatant attempt at trying to influence the media and the publics opinion. They had the choice of releasing the tape uncut and in it's entire state, or not at all. Guess what they chose.
hello corruption.
what about old mate that got tasered in his car that was still moving. he was still fucking parking the thing when they rolled down the windows.
got a story from my brother hey.
"was driving into brisbane to drop off a mate of mine at his place and we drove past this place and theres this kid with his hands behind his head leaying face first on the ground, and the cops where looking real dodgy adn this kid was being submissive. as we drive off we seen them just start laying into him. 20 minutes later after i've dropped him off i'm on the way back to mine and driving past again and theres fucking blood every where and this kids just unconscious. meanwhile the cops are just standing around looking hell dodge when this ambulance rocks up."
and another
"man they're like this all the time especially in the valley in brisbane. it's like a game to them
about 4 or 5 will just stand around and when they see a guy with punky hair and peicings and shit they just start calling them fags and taunting them until they say something back. then they run over and beat the shit out of him and write it out as he's resisting arrest and assualting a police officer and take them to court.
Happens everyweek and the cunts cover each other and lie to protect themselves while the peoples opinion nosedives."
EVERY WEEK.
And seeing as you've been projecting at me so often lately i thought fuck it, it's my turn.
Now Ross you dont go out to clubs, pubs or out like i do, or like my family do. Your pretty antisocial that way and stay at home alot of the time. Now because of this your not seeing these things first hand, your not witnessing it and you dont have the experience because 90% of your info on these events is third hand.
Your not involved in the scene where this occurs and your not in the places where this occurs, so how the fuck can you tell ME whats going on.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i8...1/DSCF0141.jpg
Newer pic
older pics
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i8...shitsocash.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i8...1/Image006.jpg
Now have a guess why my blue hat is now green and why i havnt been seen with my sunnies since the start of the year.
First hand experience.
You're very handsom.
In fact, you kinda look like Ashton Kutcher.
also the sunnie pic
(was a joke)
I spent quite a damn lot of time going out in Newcastle, and I met a fair few cops. Hell, I had them round my house because there was a drunk wandering around trying to break in at 3AM. Just because you or your mates have had a bad time with the LOCAL cops, it doesn't mean every bloody cop (or even a majority of them) are the same.
By your logic, I could say that all working-class families are full of alcoholic cunts, because a considerable number of the ones in Woy Woy are. Newcastle? Not many, comparatively. You can't prove shit from a small, localised sample, and if you think you can, you're sadly mistaken.
I can also personally vouch for the fact that when you know someone generalises you as a prick by association, it's easier to prove them right by giving them shit than it is to show them how stupidly ignorant they're being.
You're being no better than a lot of my school friends. When they heard I was joining up, they went all 'ugh no' on me and started prattling on about how the Army turns people into arseholes, because the few soldiers they knew were right fuckwads (and being the only good judge of character I know, I was the only one who realised this from the outset). Lo and behold, every single one I've met is great. Not necessarily perfect, but not cunts.
Don't fucking generalise people because of limited personal experiences.
Bod, if you hate cops in Australia, move to America. Our cops are mostly fair. Never had a problem with them ever. Hell, back in seventh grade the campus officer let me hold his gun (clip and all ammunition removed, slide locked back of course). Cops should be able to carry whatever weapons and tools that allow them to do their jobs.
BTW, the Rodney King thing should not color your opinion of American police. Most aren't like that, and very few people know that whole story anyways.
Cops here are a mixed bag, but in most areas they're alright. I've never had a run-in with them because, you know, I don't really go out of my way to break the law or stir trouble, but from the ones I've met and what I've heard from my mates the ones in our local area are pretty decent.
Well I'm in the Northern United States, and the Northwestern part to be more clear. We dont have that many problems around here, other than the occasional murders/whatever. I think we have a meth problem that we've almost solved, and people like their cannabis, and nobody really cares about that. I'd say its the best part of the US, although Alaska is pretty cool too. which is just even more northwest xDQuote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
i see a seriousQuote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
serious problem here
My dad's mate's son just completed the police academy, and he's alright.
out of his class of thirty he seriously recommended that 95% of them should never be in places of power or authority because of the mindsets of them.
questioned himself a fair bit after they passed, about why he is still doing it.
Also a mate of mine his family where good friends with some of the local cops around town and i met them. they seemed alright.
A few months after that they're place got robbed, the cops went through with a fine tooth comb, dusting for finger prints, forensic the works.
they got the guy.
But another friend of mine used to own the indoor cricket center he got broken into and they showed up, had a look around for about 5 minutes then left again.
2 weeks later broke in again. They drove up and handed him a peice of paper with a number on it so he could claim the insurance.
3 weeks after that he got broken into AGAIN this time they didnt even show up, they gave him the number over the phone.
Now these are the same cops where talkign about here.
It helps when they're on your side and you know them.
i'm not saying that if you done the blue jumpsuit your turn into an asshole. i'm saying it's predominantly assholes that are donning the blue suit in the first place.
from my experience and i'm talking from Kempsey to Ipswich as well as the newcastle area from the family members i have living down there.
E: look noone can be right on this, because it's opinion based and open to interpretation. I've stated mine.... a few times quite passionately i might add lol.....
it has been a jolly debate but i think it's time to put it to rest and declare n00b1n8r the ruler of the universe.
yeah that works
like i said most i met are fine but there's every possibility that's not the norm, it's just something you can't really assume
fucking chin give me my universe back
In b4:lock: