[WIP] Valhalla

Updates List

• April 8, 2007 - Update (First Page)
• May 15, 2007 - Accuracy Check
• July 12, 2007 - Revamped Bases [new!]

April 8, 2007 - Update
No, it's not dead. Valhalla's still on my to-do list, right under the CMT, Evolution, and assorted favours. I decided to work on it a bit today. I didn't accomplish much, just finished remodeling some rocks and fixing some normals. Said rocks can be seen beside the base. I know there's supposed to be 3 of them, but I can add in the 3rd through instance geometry. Yes, that's right- This is going to be an H2V exclusive map. Simply put, it's just better that way. I can have man-cannons, H2 weapons, nicer visuals, and lots of other nifty things.
This map definantly won't be done before H2V comes out, I don't even think the modeling will be done by then. In the little time I get to spend on halo things, I still need to skin bipeds and weapons and skies and levels too. Don't expect updates too often. I got a few pics for you guys, nothing much. It shows the region that I have modeled to completion so far. The first image depics an overhead plan of whats going on at the moment, to give you an idea of what has to be finished still.

[wshot]http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4734/plan6zx0.jpg[/wshot]
[wshot]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6663/down6cu7.jpg[/wshot]
[wshot]http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7941/base6wy3.jpg[/wshot]
[wshot]http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2323/overlay6dg7.jpg[/wshot]

cya next time!

EDIT: Sorry if this is in the wrong section, we don't really have an H2V editing section.

It matches up enough, lol. Good job keeping it this accurate thus far.

Wow.


Very nice job. I was thinking about your progress on this just the other day since we haven't heard about it in so long. Nice to know you're still working on it, even though I could have found out simply by asking you about your progress on AIM. >_>

Very nice :o

Hi =)

Wow that last picture made me think it was the real deal.

Wait a second...

Almost perfect Valhalla
Nice Visuals+Man cannons + other good stuff
A Canadan! (i know)

IT ALL ADDS UP!no it doesn't
You werk fer Bungee! Or you're spying on them

=o conscars has free time? **sends him 3537835 things to do for cmt**

Looks very nice, can't wait to see it done.

Love how its turning up! Looks exactly like the reference.

yep, If I know Con well enough, it'll look exactly like Valhalla when finished.

O.O
Crap, thanks alot con, now I'm going to be iching to play that map.

That looks very nice, even though it's not very far yet. I can't wait to see this released. Keep up the good work.

Awesome! Now I'm just desperate to get Halo 2 Vista!

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Originally Posted by FriedMetroid

I like it, although I'm not sure where you're drawing some of your references

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hes got multiple concept pictures arranged in maya so that hes pretty much created a panorama of the level. You can see all the space in the level if you arrange them properly. With halo 2 vista, it is incredibly possible to replicate the alpha version of the map exactly (from what bungie has told, Valhalla now has real grass decorators all over the ground, that move with wind and physics, and new water physics).

Man, you can seriously model. I'd have to say that is one of the the nicest looking maps I've ever seen. Can't wait for a release!


EDIT: That last screen shot is... whoa. Teach me, o thy God.

Awesome stuff! Maya ftw.

:o... -_- *gets to work on h3 stuffs for con*

This is total win <3

Awesome! It almost looks like the alpha version of Valhalla. Good job:)

finally! some one who wants to make a H3 map! i +rep you man!

Is it going to have halo 3 weapons or halo 1 weapons

+rep

Well, since it's going to be an H2V map, I figured why not. Most of the weapons from H3 already exist in H2, so that only leaves a small amount of weapons and vehicles that need to be created. L33T and Penguin said they can help with this, which is very nice of them :)

That is great, man. Nice work +rep

This is the hawtest lookin map eva!!!!! :D

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Originally Posted by Conscars

Well, since it's going to be an H2V map, I figured why not. Most of the weapons from H3 already exist in H2, so that only leaves a small amount of weapons and vehicles that need to be created. L33T and Penguin said they can help with this, which is very nice of them :)

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I'll help aswell. I'm helping everyone lately :) The work is amazing man, keep that shit up.

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Originally Posted by OriGinaL

I'll help aswell. I'm helping everyone lately :) The work is amazing man, keep that shit up.

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Check your PMs :) I should make some Valhalla team sigs later

The amount of attention you've put into making it match the released screenshots is amazing. Keep up the good work!

Are you making any plans of having the man cannon in it?

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Originally Posted by m13120

Are you making any plans of having the man cannon in it?

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What kinda Valhalla would it be without them? :)

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Originally Posted by Conscars

What kinda Valhalla would it be without them? :)

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A Halo classic one.......actually that's not a bad idea. A version for CE when finished. All you'd have to do is replace the man cannons with teleporters. Could I help with this if I show you quality work? If not, I understand.

ya, i agree. Plus, more usage of available vehicles. here's some rep for common sense.

BUMP

HOLY SHIT BUNGIE, I fucking love you!

[wshot]http://www.bungie.net/images/News/InlineImages2007/Halo3BetaGuide/valhalla2.jpg[/wshot]

This overhead view will give me all the right proportions for finishing/revising the map, especially being orthographic. The project is going to go much faster now that I have this, but only once I've finished my obligations to CMT.


Once I'm done this homework, then I'll line up my BSP with theirs to see how accurate I was, and I'll post it here.

EDIT again: Their #9 should be on the outcropping BEHIND the pelican.

i can see now how valhalla is a rebuild of blood gulch

i expect some sexy results conscars!

I'm liking where they put the turret, it fits into gameplay well without being a big problem.

^_^
Con you're working the a great map! and with the up dates on the Valhalla, you'll have a easier time modeling it's shape and a easier time placing weapons.

its good so far as in the lines its taking, but i see a few random pollys here and there. I suggest you go higher polly. Atm those cliffs have almost no detail, and the detail im talking about cannot be made up with bumps and textures. don't be afraid, portaling is your friend :)

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Originally Posted by Stealth

Con you're working the a great map! and with the up dates on the Valhalla.

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What the hell did you say?:confused:

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Originally Posted by SnaFuBAR

What the hell did you say?:confused:

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I was thinking the same thing.

so this map is still being done right? can we see some more pics? i love em. My favorite halo 3 map right now is valhalla.

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Originally Posted by soccerbummer1104

its good so far as in the lines its taking, but i see a few random pollys here and there. I suggest you go higher polly. Atm those cliffs have almost no detail, and the detail im talking about cannot be made up with bumps and textures. don't be afraid, portaling is your friend :)

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I purposely chose to model it low-poly until I was finished the general shape. The reason was that I had no completly accurate reference images to work from until today. I don't want to waste time and effort modeling in details when it could be all wrong. Don't mind the random poly's, they're 'artifacts' of my deleting rampage when I discovered a bunch of stuff was wrong. I was discussing my modeling method with Phopo on AIM, and I have come to the conclusion that it should not be used unless your reference point has more than 1 axis that you can use to align with your reference images. Valhalla is a bad map for this. The terrain is very ambiguous, I don't know anything for sure about it's shape and angles. I chose the bases as a reference point because they were the only things in the map that had straight lines and definite angles. The problem is, my base still ended up inaccurate from the lack of proper reference images from it. Besides modeling a map from an inaccurate reference object, the base itself does not extend along many axis except for the vertical one. This doesn't help me at all. To like up my cameras with it to model from, they need to be aligned to the base's rotation. It's hard to tell if your image in the background lines up with the base model because it doesn't extend close enough to the camera. This has lead to the map ending up a bit warped. I do not reccomend this method to anyone who wants to model an OUTDOOR map. Camera-triangulation modeling is great for any map that has perfect angles and flat surfaces to reference, but not outdoor ones where the base is all that you have. That being said, I have the layout comparison below.

(click to enlarge)
[wshot]http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8216/accuracyeb1.jpg[/wshot]

As you can see, some parts of the map ended up quite accurate while others did not.

By the way, does anyone know how I'm going to get grass, stone, AND snow detail maps into my ground bitmap? Or is there something in H2 that will let me do that.

edit: thought of a solution already; since these 3 surfaces don't all meet together anywhere, I can just have 2 ground bitmaps. One will have grass/stone for the center, the other can have grass/snow for the edges/cliffs.

:D close enough, for perspective images, I say. Can't wait for this to be 60 percent :D

and soccerbummer, in halo 2 vista, Bumps CAN make the cliffs look hi poly. Through halo 2's fully dynamic lighting and normal maps, you can get it within reason to look almost exactly the same as bungies, had you painted exact textures, and got deep enough normal maps. Thing is, they'd have to be really big giant hi res textures. He's got the general shape down, so yeah, I think with the combination of smoothing groups and wicked normal maps, He can get it looking kick ass.

Also Portalling doesn't work too well on maps that are this open. It just wouldn't work, so I think modelling low poly, and letting the material do the talking like bungie do, is a good move. If thats what con is planning, anyway. Frankly, I'd like to keep my fps nice and high :) Do whatever ya want con.

Btw, you making textures for it yet? CAN I HELP PLOX :?

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Originally Posted by Ã�4ÑØ â€*

:D and soccerbummer, in halo 2 vista, Bumps CAN make the cliffs look hi poly. Through halo 2's fully dynamic lighting and normal maps, you can get it within reason to look almost exactly the same as bungies, had you painted exat textures. He's got the general shape down.

Also Portalling doesn't work too well on maps that are this open. It just wouldn't work, so I think modelling low poly, and letting the material do the talking like bungie do, is a good move. If thats what con is planning, anyway. Frankly, I'd like to keep my fps nice and high :) Do whatever ya want con.

Btw, you making textures for it yet? CAN I HELP PLOX :?

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I was planning on doing the BSP textures myself, but since you're in H3V there's other things that you can work on >_> Random is going to need High Ground BSP textures.

>.>
fixed, I thought I had more, but maybe not.

About the portalling, I don't think theres any place that CAN be portalled that well, not even the caves. As seen in the beta, the caves are more like gaps behind boulders leaning against the cliff.

EDIT: Mind you, h2 doesn't need traditional portalling, though, does it? Someone told me once that it does it's own masking.

it's the pwnage conscars (looks like fun to play)

I'm pretty sure valhalla will be my fav map of halo 3, as its closely based on BG (the openess/a few hills) This and highground are probably best maps for halo 3 :D

Cant wait to play!

you make my jaw drop because of the amazing work and patients you put in thins project..i love the bases, and how you got everything exact..well to my eyes you did. Keep up the work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conscars

I purposely chose to model it low-poly until I was finished the general shape. The reason was that I had no completly accurate reference images to work from until today. I don't want to waste time and effort modeling in details when it could be all wrong. Don't mind the random poly's, they're 'artifacts' of my deleting rampage when I discovered a bunch of stuff was wrong. I was discussing my modeling method with Phopo on AIM, and I have come to the conclusion that it should not be used unless your reference point has more than 1 axis that you can use to align with your reference images. Valhalla is a bad map for this. The terrain is very ambiguous, I don't know anything for sure about it's shape and angles. I chose the bases as a reference point because they were the only things in the map that had straight lines and definite angles. The problem is, my base still ended up inaccurate from the lack of proper reference images from it. Besides modeling a map from an inaccurate reference object, the base itself does not extend along many axis except for the vertical one. This doesn't help me at all. To like up my cameras with it to model from, they need to be aligned to the base's rotation. It's hard to tell if your image in the background lines up with the base model because it doesn't extend close enough to the camera. This has lead to the map ending up a bit warped. I do not reccomend this method to anyone who wants to model an OUTDOOR map. Camera-triangulation modeling is great for any map that has perfect angles and flat surfaces to reference, but not outdoor ones where the base is all that you have. That being said, I have the layout comparison below.

(click to enlarge)
[wshot]http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8216/accuracyeb1.jpg[/wshot]

As you can see, some parts of the map ended up quite accurate while others did not.

By the way, does anyone know how I'm going to get grass, stone, AND snow detail maps into my ground bitmap? Or is there something in H2 that will let me do that.

edit: thought of a solution already; since these 3 surfaces don't all meet together anywhere, I can just have 2 ground bitmaps. One will have grass/stone for the center, the other can have grass/snow for the edges/cliffs.

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personally with outdoor maps when i have an over head shot like that, i make a plane, put the image on it
scale it to what i want
put it at the origin
and then i go to the top view and create a bunch of vertices's outlining the polygons and different geometry that i need, then i connect everything (create polygons between the verts, you need to use triangle creation for this.)and move the groups of polygons up or down to do the elevation changes. It takes some practice to get the technique to work right, and youl learn a good bit about how to place verts for certain outcomes pretty quick. :) hope that helps a lil.


here is an example that i did real quick for what im talking about. some areas you will create polygons, and others, you leave strips of them not made, then make the elevation changes and connect the gaps with more geometry ( think you may understand. a good example is the semi tiered rock on the north side of the stream in the middle

I like your tactic alot soccerbummer its very useful

If I had an overhead shot at the time, I would have done it differently (not exactly in the same way as yourself), but modeling from an overhead is definitely much easier. What I'm going to do now is just move around my vertices to match up, then adjust the vertical position with my existing cameras. The rest of the terrain I basicly build up using poly split and moving verts. I know some people prefer plane modeling and extruding edges, but I use what works for me. I sometimes use other methods where they work well, like the beach behind the base. I just selected a few edges and extruded them around in a curve to make it faster, then merged some verts to chop poly count.

I think one of the reasons I like my poly splitting/moving method as opposed to your vert placement is that I can easily control my level of detail, and I can place edges and define surfaces as I go, instead of once I've finished placing points everywhere. It's more like scultping something from a block. Jahrain prefers this style as well.

jw, is that cut polly under edit mesh or edit polly?

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Originally Posted by soccerbummer1104

jw, is that cut polly under edit mesh or edit polly?

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I use maya

ahh, :) it confuses me, but ive seen some ppl use it, and i think i remember the tool your talking about. very nifty, but max has something very similar.

does maya have a jms exporter to export models?

Not at the moment, but Ghost hinted that he was working on one. That was a long time ago, and I've heard nothing of it since. Maybe he's creating the exporter for H2V. At the moment, I model the map in Maya, export as .obj, and import in 3DS Max. There I do the material set-up, texturing/UVing, and the .jms export.

well i guess you can do that too.

It's nowhere done being modeled, I wouldn't have it ingame by now.

taking your time = good maps.

can it go on halo ce also or not

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Originally Posted by ShadowCloud

can it go on halo ce also or not

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Here is a great tip, read first post, it helps

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Originally Posted by Conscars

Yes, that's right- This is going to be an H2V exclusive map. Simply put, it's just better that way. I can have man-cannons, H2 weapons, nicer visuals, and lots of other nifty things.

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damn i would love it if someone made a high ground for halo ce

^That would take soo much work. It has a lot of detail to it.

I beg you to keep classic weapons. There really is no point in having shitty weapon mods when Halo 1 weapons deserve to be un-touched.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Katana

I beg you to keep classic weapons. There really is no point in having shitty weapon mods when Halo 1 weapons deserve to be un-touched.

Good luck.

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Who said anything about Halo 1?

^Gasp. Can't wait to see some progress!

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Originally Posted by Katana

I beg you to keep classic weapons. There really is no point in having shitty weapon mods when Halo 1 weapons deserve to be un-touched.

Good luck.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conscars

Yes, that's right- This is going to be an H2V exclusive map. Simply put, it's just better that way. I can have man-cannons, H2 weapons, nicer visuals, and lots of other nifty things.

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Don't you new guys ever read the first post any more?:mad:

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Originally Posted by Conscars

Who said anything about Halo 1?

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Ya, last time I checked, your Valhalla is for H2V only.

wow nice job it looks exactly like the beta

That's because they are pics form the Beta... except the first post.

Update 2007-07-12

I've been working hard on the bases to get them even more detailed and accurate then before. Every aspect of them has received an overhaul to look more like the H3 bases. I included the old base in this first picture for a comparison. Please note that the revamped bases are not finished yet, I still have to do the doorways, the interior, and finalizing the man-cannons plus the rear tower.

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/4109/newfronthz6.png
...............................new^ :hurr:.................................................. .old ^
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3367/newbackxe9.png

Can I have your babies?

they're 20 bucks a pound

Awesome-o

I like to put my reaction this way:

OMG 1tz tEH c00l map FrFOM HAJLO 3 BEJTA OMG I CNAT w8 2 pl4Y Thi1s ON3 ZOMG!!!!1111oneonetwo

o that maps SSOOO much fun; i played it in beta. when do you think youll be done?

Can't say specifically at the moment.

wOW LOOKS GREAT MAN

Welcome to the forums, make sure to read the forum rules found at the top of each section. Please >_>

Wow Conscars you're a n00b magnet.

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Originally Posted by Conscars

they're 20 bucks a pound

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Rofl, nice work man, keep it up.

You rock. Shit, I can't wait to get my paws on H2V!

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Originally Posted by Stealth

Don'y you new guys ever read the first post any more?:mad:

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IRONY

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Originally Posted by Conscars

Update 2007-07-12

: pics:

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I don't think I read very carefully, or maybe I just missed it, but...

This is just going to include the standard Halo 2 weaponset right? First post looks like it'll include Halo 3 stuff...but...

Good job, beautiful map so far.

Wow that looks good. I've always wondered. Where is the option to see the amount of verticies and polygons you have in your model?

These new skins are awesome too.

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Originally Posted by Gamerkd16

Wow that looks good. I've always wondered. Where is the option to see the amount of verticies and polygons you have in your model?

These new skins are awesome too.

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Answer: He's using Maya.

Tip: Talk about the forum update elsewhere.

Great job so far Conscars.

Those bases look :o Too bad there won't be a Valhalla for Halo CE.:(

a short little grav lift is pretty different from a man cannon, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with classic grav lift technique. I mean, unlike grav lifts, all the man cannons need to do is rocket you to an ambiguous location somewhere in the middle of the map, there's no precision.

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Originally Posted by FriedMetroid

a short little grav lift is pretty different from a man cannon, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with classic grav lift technique. I mean, unlike grav lifts, all the man cannons need to do is rocket you to an ambiguous location somewhere in the middle of the map, there's no precision.

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It just wouldnt look very nice though, just look at even turning super jump on, the people kinda warp around in the air, so it would most likely look like that

It might not look nice, but it's certainly not a limitation

i'm affraid sxcness is allways a limitation :(

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Originally Posted by FriedMetroid

It might not look nice, but it's certainly not a limitation

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It's horribly messy and just not fun, so it is a limitation. Why not just use teleporters instead? They're adequate.

Besides, the gravlift for Zteam's would have you detach camera in a closed space. In Valhalla, you're being sent out in an open area and usually you would want to shoot people while you're in midair (or the other way around =P) so doing that same method wouldn't be useful.

it matches the references exactly!
that's impressive!

If I were to make this a CE project as well, I would most likely use teleporters like Arteen suggested. It wouldn't affect gameplay that much. I'll consider releasing a classic version for CE. It wouldn't take that much effort once everything is all UV'd and the materials set up. I need to make custom scenery as well though.

If you do a HCE version, I would suggest to try and make it look like it belongs. Maybe you could use some preexisting textures and scenery, such as from BG and the like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arteen

It's horribly messy and just not fun, so it is a limitation. Why not just use teleporters instead? They're adequate.

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Why not? There's no reason not to. That wasn't even my point. They said man cannons just couldn't work, where they clearly could.

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Originally Posted by sever323

If you do a HCE version, I would suggest to try and make it look like it belongs. Maybe you could use some preexisting textures and scenery, such as from BG and the like.

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IMO that would just ruin the look of the map.

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Originally Posted by FriedMetroid

Why not? There's no reason not to. That wasn't even my point. They said man cannons just couldn't work, where they clearly could.

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leet's gonna show me his CE grav lifts that supposedly dont lag

So there will be a Valhalla for Halo CE? I hope it has Halo 3 Contents like the vehicles and weapons! +REP

No, if you read the first post it says H2V Exclusive Map so I doubt conscars will release it in CE.

I'm considering doing a classic version on CE until we can get new content into H2V.

We can get custom content into maps :V.

No, it would be all classic if this map came to CE. Classic is ftw, ya know.