America: Land of the Free and Home of the Bull Shit.

I am so fucking angry right now that this will probably come off as a disorganized mass of anger, but by god it is righteous anger.

To be honest I find America to be a joke now. I can no longer feel proud to be under it's name or to live on it's soil.

America was founded on a beautiful concept of eqaulity, but just like any other concept with good intentions, it gets fucked up.

Humans make errors and because of unforseen events and ideals in the future, one can not create a perfect country. Unfourtnately the fucking idiots who have been at the helm of our lovely country do not understand that and have pretty much crashed us into the ground.

Now you may be asking: "How did they do this Crackers/Chains/Fuckface, how did they fuck us over?"

Lets take a look at the original concept:
All men are created eqaul, born with eqaul rights that are inalienable.

Lets take a look at what the concept turned into:
ALL MEN MUST BE EQAUL, THOSE HIGHER UP MUST BE DRAGGED DOWN TO THE LOWERS SO NO ONE GETS THEIR FEELINGS HURT. ALSO WE WILL BE BIASED AND SHOVE OUR OWN OUTDATED IDEALS DOWN EVERYONES THROAT SO WHILE WE ARE DRAGGING DOWN PEOPLE TO BE EQAUL WE WILL ALSO BE EXCLUDING PEOPLE AND TAKING BRIBES.

We ignored our Father's fucking rules.

-Do not create political parties

-Do not create foreign alliances.

We hit the ground running, flipped face first into the mud and kept trying to run smashing our face fucking deeper.

Just like the idea of communism, America's philosphy sounds great but in actaul practice it fucking sucks down to the fundamental ideal of all men are created eqaul.

As said the government sees this and drags down other people to keep everyone happy and "eqaul". Along with this we combined extreme nationalism and took the mentality "we get what we fucking want". Now America is spoiled and so is it's people in always wanting more and more and more.

We wanted freedom, and we got too much to handle. We come back to the principle of all men created eqaul.
MOST PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS. WE GAVE THEM THE FREEDOM TO GET WHAT THEY WANT AND FROM IT CAME A SPOILED RETARD CHILD THAT DOESNT WANT TO WORK FOR WHAT ITS GOT. ALL MEN ARE NOT CREATED EQAUL, AND IF YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE THIS EQAULITY, YOU DO NOT FUCKING DRAG DOWN THE BRIGHT ONES BUT KICK THE DUMB LAZY ONES IN THE ASS AND BRING THEM UP TO THE SMART ONES.

America is fat, lazy and stupid. Yes it fucking is. It makes me so depressed to say it, but jesus christ it is. The Chinese are kicking our asses in everything because with our "freedom" we made all thse idiots believe they deserve something for no work at all...AND WE FUCKING GIVE IT TO THEM.

America is basically the Roman Empire, rotting from fucking within. Hell, we are even showing the exact same fucking symptoms. We created a fucking identity of being multiple identities, so we do not fucking mesh with all our views and beliefs, so we fucking crash and burn.

Everyone thinks theyre right and no one will back down from their opinions.

We made everyone stupid as shit. So all of their opinions are stupid as shit and no one will back down from their stupid SHIT opinions.

So we have a giant clusterfuck of lazy idiots letting the country slide off their greasy backs into a giant wreck we are in today.

Lets look at the economy!
Lets look at political parties more preoccupied with fighting amongst themselves then with uniting!
Lets look at all the fat idiots bickering about their freedom when their freedom is impeding another persons freedom and that persons freedom is impeding theirs!
Lets look at how these idiots were given everything, EVERYTHING, and because of that they fucked it over.
Lets see how the government because it has NOTHING must work to please everyone, creating this fucking bullshit where they drag down the in the greater men that could fix this country.
LETS SEE FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST THE MOST EDUCATED PEOPLE IN OUR GOD DAMN FUCKING SON OF A BITCH COUNTRY ARE LVIING IN CARDBOARD BOXES WHILE THE BIG DUMB IDIOTS WHO TACKLE EACH OTHER HAVE MILLIONS SPENT ON FUCKING STUPID SHIT.
LETS SEE OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE OF ITS FREEDOM AND DIFFERENT VIEWS BECOME THE CLUSTERFUCK IT IS TODAY
LETS SEE BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT TO THE POINT WHERE WE DONT HAVE FREEDOM
LETS SEE AND WATCH AS ITS ECONOMY FALTERS BECAUSE OF LAZY SHIT HEADS WHO SPENT TOO MUCH ON ALCOHOL MIXERS
LETS SEE, HOW WERE SLOWLY BUT SURELY BECOMING THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE PLANET

FINALLY LET US SURELY SEE HOW WE ARE LAGGING BEHIND EVERYONE ELSE, THE FAT MAN SLOWLY DYING FROM INTERNAL ISSUES AND FADING AWAY IN THE BACKDROP AS THE HEALTYH COUNTRIES SPRINT ON AHEAD.

WE ARE DISEASED, AND NO ONE HAS THE POWER TO CLEANSE US AS THE POWER RESTS IN THE CORRUPTED POLITICIANS AND THE FAT, IGNORANT BASTARDS OF OUR COUNTRY.

AND ON A FINAL NOTE, POLITICS SHOULD OF NEVER BECOME FUCKING CAREERS, THIS ALLOWS THEM TO BE PAID, AND THUS FOR MORE MONEY AND POWER THEY BECOME CORRUPTED ALOT EASIER. I AM 17 YEARS OLD AND I HAVE NEVER ONCE TAKEN A FUCKING CLASS ON ANYTHING OTHER THEN BASIC HISTORY AND I CAN SEE THIS SHIT.

I HONESTLY CAN NOT FUCKING COMPREHEND THE SHEER STUPIDITY THAT OUR COUNTRY HAS STOOPED TO. OUR TANGLED PAST AND SHITTY DECISIONS PRETTY MUCH MAKES US A SMUDGE THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CLEAN OFF. I TO BE HONEST HAVE SO MUCH DISGUST FOR THIS COUNTRY THAT IF IT FELL AND STARTED OFF ANEW, I WOULD GIVE A FUCKING SIGH OF RELIEF.

DISCUSS.

what the hell is this shit i dun even?

"IF ONLY POLITICIANS DIDNT GET PAID WE WOULDNT HAVE CORRUPTION"

your fucking joking right.
first off, if they dont earn money from their job, how are they gunna pay for their lifestyle?
bribes.

and another thing, if there was no fucking money in it, who in their right mind would throw away their careers for it. i mean jesus christ at least the priests believe they're gunna be thanked and loved by god when they pass on... but a politician?

your fucking dreaming.

Well though he is right that money plays a bigger role in American politics than in any other country.

German politicians have a fixed salary. The 'president' gets double the money, around $16000 a month. Lobbying is also fixed.

politicians being paid isn't the issue, private citizens or corporations being able to "donate" to them (literally a legal bribe) is. that shit should never, ever have been allowed to happen.

they're the same the world over: in it for themselves and only interested in gaining and retaining power, not unfucking the countries they run. we have the problem here, it's a problem in the uk, it's a problem everywhere. why do you think election promises are never delivered upon? because they're suddenly in power now and they need those promises just before the next election. it's fucking disgusting.

our brand of rep democracy is as broken as communism, it just doesn't leave itself quite as open to a single person taking control. a single group can be just as bad.

donations aren't even the problem. learn to revolving door policy.

not even joking.

I agree with you that there needs to be term limits on every elected position.

Things to make the US great again.

1. Term limits for Senators and House Members.
2. Abolish IRS, institute national %5 sales tax.
3. Limit disability and unemployment.
4. Close Mexican border, and grant amnesty with accelerated disposition towards citizenship for all illegals.
5. Mandatory judicial review.
6. Lying about campaign promises would constitute fraud, a felony. (Would obviously take a revision of Article 1 of the constitution.)
7. All states declare sovereignty.
8. Bar the usage of education/highway subsidies as extortion against states who do not follow federal directives that were not ratified by a unanimous vote in the legislature.
9. Put the dollar back on the gold standard.
10. Reduce defense spending by 8%. Allocate to education.
11. PayGo spending instead of borrowing against things like social security.
12. Consolidate intelligence communities (not a great idea, but it's an idea).
13. Disallow federal government employees and elect to join a company with a net worth greater than 10 Million dollars after dismissal/retirement.

The US just needs a leader who could care less about the picture perfect agenda, money at a personal level (but instead care about what he does with ours), and being a political figure. Oh and get rid of political factions too. People today mostly view politics as either liberal, moderate, or conservative at its core anyways.

Just throw more money at the problems. That seems to be working.

That video should be required viewing not just for every American but for every person full stop

i know, was a fucking brilliant vid.

It's been a core belief of mine since i woke up to myself when i was about 16, and realized that anyone spurting that shit is not only stupid, but dangerous.
there can be no concession
no turning back
everyone should have their fucking rights and if you dont think so.... well quiet frankly, fuck you.
because you don't deserve your rights.

Rights are not up for discussion in terms of gender, race, characteristics, skin colour, belief... the only time it can ever be safely discussed is for the collective as a whole, because the second you make concessions on other people you dont just hurt them, you hurt yourself.
I just wish to god people woke up to this outright horse-shit already.

there can never be a truly dominant majority if we want to survive and prosper as a species.

It's actually funny in a really depressing way that our survival instincts have become so fucked up and perverse over time that they almost prove to do the opposite

The screwed up thing is we've got people from all kinds of views spouting that shit at everyone else. Against, gays, blacks, against whites, middle class, the rich, jews, mexicans, christians, muslims, capitalists, socialists, etc...we pretty much have it all. And we can blame it all on the politics and media who stand to benefit most from a divided citizenry. And then blame ourselves, all over the world, for not having the balls to get angry and take some real action. Not just in america but everywhere, your government is fucking you.

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Originally Posted by Cojafoji

Things to make the US great again.

1. Term limits for Senators and House Members. particularly majority leaders
2. Abolish IRS, institute national %5 sales tax. 10-15, or higher or we never get out of debt
3. Limit disability and unemployment. limit the number of recipients
4. Close Mexican border, and grant amnesty with accelerated disposition towards citizenship for all illegals.
5. Mandatory judicial review.
6. Lying about campaign promises would constitute fraud, a felony. (Would obviously take a revision of Article 1 of the constitution.)
7. All states declare sovereignty.
8. Bar the usage of education/highway subsidies as extortion against states who do not follow federal directives that were not ratified by a unanimous vote in the legislature.
9. Put the dollar back on the gold standard.
10. Reduce defense spending by 8%. Allocate to education.
11. PayGo spending instead of borrowing against things like social security.
12. Consolidate intelligence communities (not a great idea, but it's an idea).
13. Disallow federal government employees and elect to join a company with a net worth greater than 10 Million dollars after dismissal/retirement.

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We also need to get rid of artificially high prices (healthcare, insurance, tuition & books are some examples) which are guaranteed because the government pays for them most of the time. (Just try taking a class out-of-pocket and you'll want to murder someone.) It's a huge waste of taxpayer money that could easily be redirected toward improving those institutions rather than their profits.

Don't forget medicare,aid, and what not. It needs to go. it's close to making up the single largest part of our debt if it isn't already. Social programs are luxuries we can't afford right now.

Your not alone, UK is in dyer-straights right now. I have literally lost all faith in our politics. Politicians bending the rules for their gain, one politician used government expenses, to pay for fucking pet food. Taxpayers money, to pay for petfood. All I hear now is "oh the last government really fucked up, so we will have to make cuts CUTS CUTS.Everyday, its X amount of jobs having to be cut.

Original post is pretty wishy washy, doesn't really contain any real information, so I'm a little bit uneducated about "the problems". I thought Obama was going to start a fresh, be a new leaf, has he just not followed his promises?

Everything is objective. Everyone is right or they would not put their name on it. Everyone is wrong because it conflicts what you just signed.

...and everything else in-between. (This is why there is a political civil war happening right now, as it has for some time).

This world would be so boring if it was simple. Were it so easy.
Well...at least you got to vent here...where it can do nothing. Its safer that way.

Have a nice day.

Hey rest of the world, sounds like you guys need this cool thing called superannuation.

Signed australia.

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Originally Posted by Cojafoji

Things to make the US great again.

1. Abolish IRS, institute national %5 sales tax.
2. Limit disability and unemployment.

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Don't forget medicare,aid, and what not. It needs to go. it's close to making up the single largest part of our debt if it isn't already. Social programs are luxuries we can't afford right now.

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Yeah man, fuck the poor, I got mine!

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[*] Put the dollar back on the gold standard.

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Insane.

Really? Insane? Giving our money an actual physical backing is insane? I'd like to think that it's not.

Now, if you had said, impossible, or far fetched, I would have agreed; but insane? No.

If you borrow on credit, which a nation is forced to do from time to time, it's better to have their ability to repay debts with tangible scarce resources rather than promises and BS. Learn to economy. Not saying that US citizens should be able to redeem gold with cash, but saying that foreign governments should be able to. We have a massive federal gold reserve doing nothing. Fuck Nixon for that.

Edit: If you're going to contribute to a politically polarized thread, make sure that what you do contribute has substance.

Uhh... seriously?

I'm not sure if you've fully considered what would happen if the US went on a gold standard, or any physically redeemable standard.

Hypothetically, if one dollar becomes redeemable for an ounce of gold, or silver, or steel, then international finance gets fucked. Suddenly the value of the dollar isn't dependent on the economic well-being of the country, but on the scarcity of the resource. It is insane.

So it was insane that US currency was dependent on economic well being and gold for just about 200 years?

No, not when the rest of the world was as well.

But if the US jumped back on the gold standard, the value of the US Dollar becomes a fraction of the total gold reserve of the country. No more, and no less. If they were to switch over to the standard alone, the rest of the world could buy up all the country's value in an instant.

In order to work properly, you have to change the economic structure of the rest of the world.

Fuck the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by Cojafoji in my Visitor Messages

Yo, so about how I'm drunk as fuck right now..

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It's okay, people! He's just drunk as fuck!

Good night, everyone.

I'm with paladin. Placing term limits on politicians in Congress and limiting (if not eliminating) corporate donations are probably the best moves for getting things rolling in terms of fixing this country. The 5% sales tax is not a bad idea either, it's easier to keep track of and manage than the IRS, which is incapable of reading its own damn laws.

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Originally Posted by INSANEdrive

Everything is objective. Everyone is right or they would not put their name on it. Everyone is wrong because it conflicts what you just signed.

...and everything else in-between. (This is why there is a political civil war happening right now, as it has for some time).

This world would be so boring if it was simple. Were it so easy.
Well...at least you got to vent here...where it can do nothing. Its safer that way.

Have a nice day.

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Totally off topic here INSANEdrive, but I still use your skins pack comboed with Halo 2 Rules!'s skins on my Halo PC install. :)

Dude I remember H2R holy shit nostalgia attack

okay you guys can go back to discussing how fucked up your country is now (hint: the whole world is fucked up)

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Originally Posted by rossmum

okay you guys can go back to discussing how fucked up your country is now (hint: the whole world is fucked up)

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Scandinavia is still ok :allears:



Also sales taxes are dumb and are inherently regressive, income taxes are a much better system

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Originally Posted by thehoodedsmack

It's okay, people! He's just drunk as fuck!

Good night, everyone.

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about how you're rude as hell...

Doesn't change the fact that I'm right...

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Originally Posted by CN3089

Also sales taxes are dumb and are inherently regressive, income taxes are a much better system

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Either way, both at the same time are complete destruction.... I'd rather have sales tax though. Because then I can at least say what happens to the money I earn.

Yeah, "complete destruction," like public education, highways, and missions to the moon

I miss missions to the moon. :(

Where the heck did that comment come from, Dwood? Please elaborate on the "complete destruction."

Yeah man fuck other people

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Originally Posted by CN3089

Scandinavia is still ok :allears:



Also sales taxes are dumb and are inherently regressive, income taxes are a much better system

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said it for ages.
People that say sales tax is the way to go dont really understand who gets hit.
the guys that earn shitloads don't always buy shitloads... therefore you have a massive discrepancy in your tax revenue.

Sure you might get money from illegals, but the guys that earn billions that make up a very significant chunk of tax income end up paying fuck all comparatively.

Not necessarily. Sales tax would apply to businesses too (see: all corporations), not just individuals. As it is, the wealthiest don't really pay taxes. The money goes through their hands but it really comes from bottom because they defer their taxes as increased cost of the goods and services they produce. Subsidies and credits can be used to offset the cost being passed on but once again the tax revenue gets negated. Sales tax might run into the same problem which is why states have sales tax incorporated with personal income tax. I don't really think it's a good idea to elliminate income tax completely but getting rid of or reforming the IRS needs to be done. It's a money sink.

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Originally Posted by CN3089

Yeah man, fuck the poor, I got mine!

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You're right. It's good to put the needy into hundred's of thousands of dollars of debt because then they can have a hundred bucks worth of food stamps.

Also rich people tend to buy multiple houses and will regularly switch between them, from what I remember you can avoid taxes with this unless they changed it recently.

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Originally Posted by Crackers

Also rich people tend to buy multiple houses and will regularly switch between them, from what I remember you can avoid taxes with this unless they changed it recently.

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You pay taxes on the houses.... you pay income taxes based on federal income tax laws and the state in which you reside... if multiple houses are owned, then whichever state you file your taxes to at the end of the year. I'm not 100% sure but that's the way I always thought it would be. Also if you own a company and sell product on the internet then sales taxes are based on where the company who owns the website supposedly sells from. So if I'm in Oklahoma and ship to Cali the person who orders from Cali only pays the Oklahoma income tax. Too bad there's nothing in that state. :P

Taxes can be avoided also if you own a company.... It's all write offs.

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Originally Posted by Cojafoji

[*] Lying about campaign promises would constitute fraud, a felony. (Would obviously take a revision of Article 1 of the constitution.)

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Actually, I dont think free speech is protected when used in a fraudulent way.

glad to see someone's catching on to what a joke america is to the rest of the world.

It's not entirely a joke, it's just http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/em...ot-psyboom.gif to most of us because in nearly every other country on Earth, the populace can agree on at least some of the most basic issues, regardless of political beliefs. The US, on the other hand, is a fuckfight of states, counties, even down to districts of the one city where you'll have the hardest of the hard left and the hardest of the hard right, and they each think the other is working towards some nefarious goal. The North/South division still stands aside from one or two states, which is fucking remarkable. Granted it's blown out a lot now with more people moving into the South and all their dumb racist shit getting abolished, but in some places it is still entirely possible to find entire fucking communities who will wink and nudge and do their absolute best to make it painfully obvious they wish the result of the war had been reversed. Up North, you basically have the liberal heartland, and generally it shows (a lot of northern states are, as far as I can tell, a lot less gun-friendly than the south where ownership is a given).

The US functions like two entirely different countries led by one government rather than one country. It's astounding.

2 countries? More like ~5

Lets see...north, south, east, west, and everyone else in the mid-US?

I was aiming more at demography than geography :P

The US was supposed to be a a state-by-state system with a very limited Federal Government. Thats the whole reason being different states. So that each state could run the way it wanted to. It wasnt until the late 1890's progressives decided to press the red button on the size of government.

what a marvellous unbiased opinion that was.

what a marvellously contributing post that was :P

your just a socialist communist on a left wing prayer ,maliciously sowing the seeds of individualism in an attempt to totality the country in a big government to guaranteed the pork barrel lipstick on Putin as he fly's under bus's from terrorist associatives who have taken away URR GUNZ.
no wonder are countrys fucked, we let you in.

herapappdDUUURRpp

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Originally Posted by Bodzilla

what a marvellous unbiased opinion that was.

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If an opinion wasn't biased, it wouldn't be an opinion. :-3

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Originally Posted by paladin

The US was supposed to be a a state-by-state system with a very limited Federal Government. Thats the whole reason being different states. So that each state could run the way it wanted to. It wasnt until the late 1890's progressives decided to press the red button on the size of government.

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Actually it was probably a lot earlier. The most famous of these was Lincoln. On one hand slavery could have been construed as a state's rights issue, but being completely unconstitutional he couldn't let that slide. However, before Lincoln the states had the right to succeed, and we pretty much know how that went. There's a whole host of laws concerning state sovereignty that were rescinded during the civil war. (inb4 hurrdurr racists - don't bother).

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Originally Posted by Bodzilla

what a marvellous unbiased opinion that was.

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Depends on your definition of "progressives".

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Originally Posted by Dwood

Also if you own a company and sell product on the internet then sales taxes are based on where the company who owns the website supposedly sells from. So if I'm in Oklahoma and ship to Cali the person who orders from Cali only pays the Oklahoma income tax.

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The company pays to it's state, the buyers pay taxes based on what state they live in.

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Originally Posted by rossmum

america be crazy

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It's not actually as bad as people think, it's just played up as if it is. It's a media thing, they make a shitload off of dramatizing every news bite. Plus there's the whole psychology of people becoming increasingly isolated in their daily lives. They don't talk to their neighbors they text. They don't visit friends and family they just get on facebook. Nobody talks to strangers unless they have to and when they do, it's very impersonal. All information is condensed and reduced to a point where no one knows what anybody really thinks.

The North/South thing is a joke. it's barely existent. whenever you see it in media it's always southern bible-thumpers from hicksville being cast against highly secularized new england urbanites (it's no coincidence that these are the people in charge of media). Go out into the northern country side and you'll find that most people are just like the ones down south. In fact, i see more rebel flags in PA than I ever saw in NW FL. I lived down there for 20 years and for the last nearly 10 years i've lived in PA. People are way more racist in PA.

tl;dr: media 101

i'm not saying it's crazy as in literally insane (although parts of it could definitely take that title), but it's just such an odd concept for most of us foreigners to grasp

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Originally Posted by Bodzilla

what a marvellous unbiased opinion that was.

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Factually, it was 99% accurate.

Even if the US is "crazy" and has a president I dont agree with, Id still live here over any other country in the world.

by progressives do you mean people who want to beat religion the fuck out of politics and bring in systems that actually make sense, or the crazies who take everything way too seriously in case some precious little princess somewhere gets offended

because if you're going to bitch about me generalising conservatives, right back atcha there

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There's a whole host of laws concerning state sovereignty that were rescinded during the civil war.

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Not trying to sound dickish, but I would enjoy seeing a list of those.


Also, random note, it's secede.

I live in a city that funds a large chunk of its rather substantial, vital infrastructure on sales taxes, and it is a completely retarded system for major funding. It is utterly unreliable and means that the government suffers from psychological dips in the economy to an amplified extent, when it is most needed to step up and function. Income taxes are a far more dependable system, and since your income and property is literally what you receive from society, it is by far the best place to determine what you owe to the maintenance of the society you benefit from. Taxes on all sales and particularly luxuries and dangerous items are justifiable because you choose to pay them, but so are income and property taxes because you also chose to have those things...

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Originally Posted by rossmum

by progressives do you mean people who want to beat religion the fuck out of politics and bring in systems that actually make sense, or the crazies who take everything way too seriously in case some precious little princess somewhere gets offended

because if you're going to bitch about me generalising conservatives, right back atcha there

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Why do you have to bring religion into everything. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.

And by 'system that works', are your talking about enslaving people into a working class and becoming so dependent on the federal Government that they can eat, sleep or shit without someone holding their hand? Because thats what and is happening.

Also add term limits for senate, house, and other positions that don't already have them. I think that'd resolve a lot of anguish in the country, especially when the people who need them are genuinely narcissistic. Not trying to point fingers though, I'm just saying even the good members get rotten over time.

I also want to mention that religion is mostly by Political Party. Republicans are usually the "religious right" and Democrats usually are not to the extent of the republicans. I try to also picture the Laws of the U.S. being formed from experience and not religion, which people usually blames laws on. Now Public Opinion sort of deals will always involve religion because it involves the Public and a broad amount of people. That's one reason why arguments with the current "Ground Zero Mosque" and "Abortion Rights" always gets so heated. Usually, despite what may appear to be the best course of action, the Gov't will usually make decisions in favor of a broader crowd. It's just how the system currently works in the United States.

And what Paladin says is basically true. We also have a ton of misrepresentation in this country's population with whom Americans actually are due to the immigration and illegal immigration that occurs daily. I don't know many outer immigrants, but I'm sure there very respectable ones who are glad to be Americans. Thye live in America and that makes them Americans, so when you dog all Americans you dog the respectable ones too. Most of what people hear from outside the Country is what the media feeds to them and the horrific stereotyping too, which on it's own is like trusting one biased source with everything you want to know. I mean, the total lack of respect intitially for Americans is repulsive and is sheerly based off of most stereotypes. I remember on XBL once that two British guys knew I was America, took me immediately as a joke, and continued with insulting the 9/11 attacks. Now I realize these two guys are Douche Bags, but seriously, where do people honestly get these ideas that all Americans are immediately idiots? That in itself IS insanity. I may not always appear it (partially because I'm extremely paranoid about certain topics and I can't relay all of my messages properly), but I'm not a racist, ignorant, nor arrogant American. Sure, I'm proud of my Country, but it's not like I don't respect other countries from around the world too. Now, their leadership is a different issue though, so when I say country I mean citizens in general. There may be a few people I don't like or a culture I don't understand, but initially I won't try to judge peope when I first meet them.

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Originally Posted by paladin

And by 'system that works', are your talking about enslaving people into a working class and becoming so dependent on the federal Government that they can eat, sleep or shit without someone holding their hand? Because thats what and is happening.

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oh come on.

i thought the debate section was supposed to be serious.

You obviously don't live in the US, so frankly, I don't see how your qualified to speak on the issue.

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Originally Posted by paladin

Why do you have to bring religion into everything. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.

And by 'system that works', are your talking about enslaving people into a working class and becoming so dependent on the federal Government that they can eat, sleep or shit without someone holding their hand? Because thats what and is happening.

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You are the precise reason so many people have trouble taking Americans seriously. Congratulations.

Even Dane's most insane conspiracy theory rants don't compare to that last sentence.

So you think a decreasing living wage, increasing poverty rates (40 Million on Food stamps), record number of unemployment benefit applications (10% unemployed, 20% underemployed), record breaking welfare recipients (4.1 Million on cash-assistnace), $672 billion in Social security hand-outs, and an increasing amount of Medicaid recipients (47 million, in 2005) shows that more and more people are becoming less dependent on the Government?

Right, an you say Im insane. Come home from rainbow and cupcake land.

This article sums up the hand-outs my government gives out.

theeconomiccollapseblog.com

sweet sourcing of reliable and unbiased information there

Your right, because when they use sources like the ssa.gov, cnn.com, goa.gov, Bureau of Labor Statistics, The Wall Street Journal, and MoneyNews.com, the article isnt creditable. Learn to read you elitist pig.

You're right, we should just make poor people lift themselves up by their own bootstraps


Failing that, they could eat them for sustenance

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Originally Posted by paladin

you elitist pig.

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hahqhahhahaha oh this is so precious coming from someone who is the embodiment of 'fuck you, got mine'

how does it feel to be literally the worst kind of human possible

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Originally Posted by Cojafoji

Not trying to sound dickish, but I would enjoy seeing a list of those.

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Let me retract that slightly, the whole argument hinges on whether states have the right to secede. If so then we can talk about an unlawful declaration of war, unlawful blockade, etc...mostly because Lincoln needed approval of congress which he didn't bother to get beforehand. After looking for some information what I've found is mostly an argument about intent of the constitution (and the founders) vs what it actually says. It seems the south believed that, since they joined freely and willingly, they should also be allowed to leave freely. However, it also makes sense that the states shouldn't have the right to take what they want by force.

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Originally Posted by rossmum

by progressives do you mean people who want to beat religion the fuck out of politics and bring in systems that actually make sense, or the crazies who take everything way too seriously in case some precious little princess somewhere gets offended

because if you're going to bitch about me generalising conservatives, right back atcha there

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We've had this discussion already. The term "progressive" has been used since the Temperance Movement. Guess what, they were religious zealots. Progressivism isn't a consistent ideology. The Progressive Party is more like what you think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paladin

And by 'system that works', are your talking about enslaving people into a working class and becoming so dependent on the federal Government that they can eat, sleep or shit without someone holding their hand? Because thats what and is happening.

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yes, that is exactly what he's talking about. because he doesn't realize that the welfare state is predatory. He doesn't realize that once you get in you can't get out. And he fails to acknowledge that being dependent on the government for sustenance is slavery but people like him will tell you all day that minimum wage laws are institutionalized slavery (LTV). It negates free will and the capacity to live a full life. It curtails the democratic process by allowing people to vote on their paycheck rather than the issues. And if you think there is a better way to help the poor, think outside the welfare state mentality, you get "fuck you got mine". None of them realize that the system is unsustainable and will ultimately result in tremendous loss of life.

holy fuck it's like you guys live in some magical bubble where europe (particularly northern europe) and canada don't exist :ugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rossmum

holy fuck it's like you guys live in some magical bubble where europe (particularly northern europe) and canada don't exist :ugh:

---

nobody cares about your utopian delusions



also:

I kind of didn't wanna post this, but seeing as I just spent time writing it, I may as well not waste my morning. Even though, it kind of is wasting my time as it's just going to be torn apart and whatever, that's fine though.

This entire thing could have been stopped or been on the path to stopping from the get go, but it wasn't. It was let go for as long as people can stand, so that there is another "flaw" in our society that deserves merit in changing it completely. The whole tactic is to break this thing, using extremes, to show it is broken, and to "fix it". However, it was never really broken at it's core. What happened was smart tactical thinking and dumb idiots voting and not reading, over time this just relinquished more and more of the pieces of the puzzle, for them to go missing and later called DIS BROKEN TING.

I'll say it again. This thing is being broken as hard and fast as It can, so it can be rebuilt anew, and it's all our fault for it being this way in the first place, which is incorrect.

America represents the obtuse and at the same time acute, the greedy, the ever hungry freedom of the inner person. In my opinion, the beauty. Fat, skinny, greed gluttony, these things make up the characteristics of interesting life, because they exist to allow others to exist.


The big why in all of this, is something conspiracy people and what I would call regular people have been attempting to understand for a long time. Many questions that go with all the bullshit, but it always seems to end up to hte finale. Why? Why do all this?


I'll tell you why.

The australian government, and british governments are dictated by the Fabian Society mainly (logo is a wolf in sheeps clothing), and Freemasonry at a local level. Canada, it's the Douglass Coldwell and the masons. The Americans, it's more the Ordo Templi/Masonic at the top and and far nut christian+mason combos at the bottom.

The whole mantra of these is COMMUNITY. Community is going to be handed to you, at the cost of the individual. Like it or not, your countries, and there political representatives all bow down in allegiance to these models (and the great architect). Greater good, the good of the people, sustainable community and freedom for all. These phrases don't mean what you think they do.

Religion is the most curious part. They've done it all so right and perfect though, it's just pure amazing. What they're going to do, and all want to do, abolish religion completely. All over the world, they want to destroy religion.

Now, first glance, OMG FREE FRO THE SHACKLES OF RELIGION AND DOGMA AND, ok wait a minute on that thought. In order for their community vision for the future, religion won't work, but at the same time, it is a key part, and will never work without it. What they're going to establish, in some way, be it incrementally through some respected generation of people, your actors, your musicians, your shows, your movies, is a one world religion, of the planet itself. A gaia religion, basically. A scientific religion, and at a dangerous extreme. See, people are getting way too consumed in the anti religion, and the pro religion bullshit. It doesn't matter one single fucking bit. I think the more dangerous, is the scientific devout belief. When you make the world apear as a random bunch of cells, a random happening, an accident, some would say, you destroy the value of life. What is that? Who knows, but it's something inside, some weird thing we all have. Everything good in the world has come from a belief, whether in god or country. However, everything bad, has come as a result of the exploitation of those feelings. It's not necessarily religions fault. IU would say religion was necessary to get us to this point. The extreme idiotic leaders abuse it's power, and clamp on freedoms with it, but this is just another biproduct of the organized takedown of our society.

The whole point of all this, they say is sustainability, which is outright bullshit. They're the ones who broke this and did this. If people were given personal freedom and better living standards, they would not feel the empty hole inside, that tells them they've done nothing with their lives, make children to try again, basically. No, they wanted the planet overpopulated, and they wanted us to be free and happy, momentarily.



What they want, is an easily manageable world. A world that cares for itself, and thus fixes itself using it's masses, rather than constantly "bending over" for the individual. People will learn to accept the way of life, and love it. They rely on people forgetting.

Now, the point to all this? How are they going to create a way for people to suddenly love the planet to the point where they turn into drone bees protecting the hive?

Climate. Change. Now, my stance on it, from the massive amount of bullshit and fact meshed together I have seen, is that it is only partially correct. This natural disaster, is the perfect key and tool, to make people relinquish for the "greater good". This is actually already happening. In 2 more generations, they'll have their communal gaia worship rooted in everyone's conscious. Because the supposed science of the whole thing climate change (really, global warming) would continue to happen, unless we CONTINUE to live in the way of subjugating ourselves for saving this thing. It ensures a forever spanding devotional, based on guilt of something we never did. It also ensures a healthy constant stream of money in the short term, but really, they don't care about money. They care about the debt money creates, again perpetuating the "broken-ness" of the current situation in order to change, to that ^.


You will all have your social freedom, your togetherness, your world peace, but as a cost, the individual will no longer be cared for. If an issue doesn't meet the needs of the consensus, it is moot. You are all the same, and mother needs us.

You will be forced to work, forced to eat, forced to education, and should you not, you will be discarded as waste. What the psuedo religious societies want, is everyone working together, and no slackers. But slackers and working gives us the life we need to have. The ups, the downs, the wacky roller coaster of experience.

Everyone wanted this, but one day you'll learn to understand that world peace and community doesn't mean shit without that little light, that spark inside each person based on situation, everyone feeling as an individual. Life will no longer have purpose, or be worth living. It will simply be, and wether that is a delusion of faith or whatever, doesn't slow the point that there is nothing in space we can reach, nothing we can do. The stars are expanding, everything will soon become out of reach. Were stuck here on this planet, and we need to make the most of it, and sustain it yes, but not simply for the purpose of just existing while the top guns run around doing what we USED to be able to do.

Holy crap that was long.

Also, I.O.U.S.A. was a fantastic documentary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rossmum

holy fuck it's like you guys live in some magical bubble where europe (particularly northern europe) and canada don't exist :ugh:

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This thread isnt about Canada or Europe.

It's Capitalism. GO figure. It's how the U.S. works now and it's how it's worked for a long time. You have to be competitive to succeed and by doing so deserve what you gain. No, life isn't fair, but at least in America you have the comfort of knowing that once you've actually worked your ass off by the end of the day you an sit on the couch and relax watching your favorite show. Most of what I said in that sentence isn't half as possible in a ton of other countries. I'm not too positive on the higher status European countries, but I know for sure that conditions in Russia and Greece aren't nearly as great as conditions in America if you actually work. My point is, we take so much in America for granted and yet there are so many people who have no chance to have what we have as we speak. It's haunting, but it's what's happening at this very moment. It's not the fact that people fall down that bothers me; It's the fact that people fall down, but cry to the government instead of fixing their problems when they actually can, unlike half the other countries' citizens in this world who can't. Understand what I'm saying?

Btw, if you so dare say I'm mocking people who actually can't compete and work, you really need to shut it. At that point you're just trying to start a firefight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkHalo003

It's Capitalism. Understand what I'm saying?

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I agree 100% with you that when American hit hard times, a majority will turn to the government for the answer. This should never happen. At no time in anyones life should they be dependent upon the government for anything.

Except healthcare. /ross /CN /Bod

They just foot the bill. Beside some VA hospitals, most hospitals are private facilities/ coops

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwood

Except healthcare. /ross /CN /Bod

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The fact that alot people cant afford to get medical treatment and be healthy due nothing other then the family they where born into... is seriously OK with you guys?
everybody should have the right to live a healthy life.


Anyone that doesn't think so is seriously a blight on the human race.

wow, all successful people were born successful!? is that so?

I'll give you this, being born into a family that values hard work and good education and honest living seems to make one more successful. Those bastards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sleepy1212

wow, all successful people were born successful!? is that so.

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No they all went from slum dog and worked hard to raise $80.000 to be accepted in Cambridge!

I don't know your family but how many times I have heard those terms 'hard work, good education and honest living'. They don't mean nothing compared to other countries. Go down to Mexico and learn what it is like to have a hard living, value work and foremost still maintain an honest living.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrAsHOvErRide

No they all went from slum dog and worked hard to raise $80.000 to be accepted in Cambridge!

I don't know your family but how many times I have heard those terms 'hard work, good education and honest living'. They don't mean nothing compared to other countries. Go down to Mexico itt: America
and learn what it is like to have a hard living, value work and foremost still maintain an honest living.

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I started paying taxes in the 8th grade. I made $4/hr emptying trash cans. I haven't stopped working since. I've had many sunrise to sunset days. I almost lost a finger building houses (tablesaws will get you eventually). My parents were dirt poor when i was growing up as in we can buy bread or milk, not both. It took a long time but now, thanks to a lot of patience and hard work they've done pretty well. we all have decent jobs (all five of us) and we have decent health care.

Point is you don't have to be a Rothschild to get a flu shot. In fact you don't even have to work in the US. If you go on welfare you can get medical coverage. Or you get a shit job until you find a better one until you find a better one until you find a better one etc.....you all would rather say to the poor, "we're sorry you're fucked and obviously too incompetent to try and everyone hates you so don't bother we have shit we took off of someone who earned it you can have. I realize this is incredibly dishonest but who are we kidding, you're pieces of shit anyway"

It was quite obvious that would would post your hard past like everyone on here would have done. My friends are right now working for 9 Euros a day (8 hours a day) and guess what...75% of the youth have to do this for 9 months in Germany (Zivildienst) because the government forces them to do so. So don't talk about empting trash cans xD Mexicans empty trash cans for far less and in worse conditions.

Public health care existed in Germany since 1880 and for the past 130 years it has worked (not great but it worked just fine). Why do you always talk about the poor? Many in Germany have public healthcare but the people which in your eyes 'work hard and are not lazy' still have benefits over those. You just have to pay for a private healthcare and you get a better service. The system fucking works.

There are more people with millions that didnt get a degree than those who graduated from college and made millions...

...So people go to college and learn there is more to life than money?

Are you implying that because those people made money they weren't essentially denied something that would have improved their quality of life? ...something they deserved? Perhaps if everyone went to college the same determined people would solve real societal problems instead of becoming experts on manipulating a broken system?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrAsHOvErRide

It was quite obvious that would would post your hard past like everyone on here would have done. My friends are right now working for 9 Euros a day (8 hours a day) and guess what...75% of the youth have to do this for 9 months in Germany (Zivildienst) because the government forces them to do so. So don't talk about empting trash cans xD Mexicans empty trash cans for far less and in worse conditions.

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mexicans are elitist assholes because people in zimbabwe get killed by lions doing their job. am I getting through to you Capt. Ad Hominum? why are the working conditions of anyone even relevant to this part of the discussion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrAsHOvErRide

The system fucking works.

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US has public healthcare, Adaggio, COMPASS, WIC, etc...we also have private healthcare, which is better than the public healthcare but costs more. I don't even know what your point is. I thought we were talking about my criticism of Bod's ridiculous claim that the family you were born into is the sole determining factor in who get's health care. As if having "old money" is the only way you can get health care. It's a common misconception that the only wealthy people are ones that got their money from their parents. The US is crystal clear proof of how wrong that assumption is.

We have a large population of Independently wealthy and middle class individuals who were not born into the economic strata they occupy who have insurance. Even laborers have company health insurance. Even service employees can qualify for company insurance. It's nearly ubiquitous that employers provide insurance for their employees. Top that off with the fact that the poorest americans still receive state assistance and the only people left complaining are unemployed college brats who are now too old to be on daddy's insurance and too stubborn to find work elsewhere. If anything they only have a complaint against growing unemployment and chances are the biggest loudest most retarded of them are Liberal Arts grads who aren't hireable in the first place.

E: apparently LA includes hard science so...fuck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sleepy1212

mexicans are elitist assholes because people in zimbabwe get killed by lions doing their job. am I getting through to you Capt. Ad Hominum? why are the working conditions of anyone even relevant to this part of the discussion?

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Because you started it with your 'hard' working family. Doh. You just couldn't keep your 'tough' past out of this thread.

Since the rest is irrelevant to this topic, I don't have to reply I guess. But one thing you can be certain off: You obviously don't know shit. You think your demographic structures are unique?

I'll quote ross when I say, you really do think that you are living under a bubble and other countries don't exist. You are not reinventing the wheel, you are just 100 years behind.

My last post in this derailing thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodzilla

The fact that alot people cant afford to get medical treatment and be healthy due nothing other then the family they where born into... is seriously OK with you guys?
everybody should have the right to live a healthy life.


Anyone that doesn't think so is seriously a blight on the human race.

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This is almost the complete opposite of what America stands for. You can become anything you want to be regaurdless of race, class, or creed. Look at our President. He grew up in a poor black family, got scholarships to prestigious Ivy League schools, became a young senator dispite many challenges, and became the youngest and first black president.

Quote:

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due nothing other then the family they where born into

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That is seriously the most fucked up mind set anyone can have. Claiming you have it tough because your parents or ancestors had it tough is a bull shit excuse. Just like 95% of fat people blaming genetics or glandular diseases, when really, those only effect around 2.5%. This hole thing goes back to entitlements, "my parents had it rough so im not even gonna try, give me give me give". Its pathetic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paladin

He grew up in a poor black family,

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Haha what? No he didn't, he grew up with his mother's family. Even if he didn't, his father had a masters in economics from Harvard.

"bitchez saying exaggerated my past, they just aggravated i wanna ejaculate in his ass"
-Eminiem

America is seriously a 100 years behind.
if you think that which family your born into doesn't affect your health, opportunity's, income and success, through your life.... well your deluded.
simple as that tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodzilla

America is seriously a 100 years behind.
if you think that which family your born into doesn't affect your health, opportunity's, income and success, through your life.... well your deluded.
simple as that tbh.

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You couldnt be any more wrong. This isnt the 16th century.

With the ideas some people have in their head, you might think that it still was the 1500s. I will point you toward the Yahoo! comment system as my proof.

(deleted) Never mind... lets not get in to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mass

...So people go to college and learn there is more to life than money?

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No they learn the opposite and enter into the idea that in order to provide they must group up under someone and work under them in order to make a living. In fact, the major things that college does teach you is that money does matter and it's in all parts of our lives. Try paying for it?

Another thing- You assume that people who get rich are the kinds of people that only care about money, which can, and is true for many, many people, but the same can be said for those people who go to college to become Lawyers or Political Sci and then get elected... Just like not everyone that doesn't go to college doesn't care just about money, not everyone that goes to college learns a lesson about how money doesn't really matter that much.

Quote:

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Are you implying that because those people made money they weren't essentially denied something that would have improved their quality of life?

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Wait what?

Quote:

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...something they deserved? Perhaps if everyone went to college the same determined people would solve real societal problems instead of becoming experts on manipulating a broken system?

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Yeah, sure as if the schooling system weren't broken. (Collegiate or otherwise) Allow me to point you to the following: http://americaviaerica.blogspot.com/...an-speech.html

And allow me to point you to the essay from 2003 "Against School" - http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm which shows us that Schools and Colleges do NOT adequately attempt to prepare individuals to live responsible lives. (Even though they are doing their best to improve)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paladin

You couldnt be any more wrong. This isnt the 16th century.

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fuck i wish i could live in your world mate, because it may be a complete lie and your oblivious to the world around you, but atleast your happy.

"I just wish i could've been born a dumb cunt just like everybody else, then maybe, i'd have the chance to be happy"
-my father

1.4 million homeless children in america.
equal opportunity.

yeah right.

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Originally Posted by CrAsHOvErRide

Because you started it with your 'hard' working family. Doh. You just couldn't keep your 'tough' past out of this thread..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrAsHOvErRide

I don't know your family but how many times I have heard those terms 'hard work, good education and honest living'. They don't mean nothing compared to other countries. Go down to Mexico and learn what it is like to have a hard living, value work and foremost still maintain an honest living.

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US Population: 307,006,550; homeless: 1,400,000; rate 0.00465

Australia: 21,431,800; 105,000; 0.00489

Germany: 82,110,097; 591,000; 0.00719

Canada: 33,311,400; 150,000-300,000; 0.00450-0.00900

*all from first page of google results

It's nice to have company in 100-years-ago-land. Especially when your still the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwood

No they learn the opposite and enter into the idea that in order to provide they must group up under someone and work under them in order to make a living. In fact, the major things that college does teach you is that money does matter and it's in all parts of our lives. Try paying for it?

---

Though I find your (sometimes excruciating) cynicism perfectly reasonable, and I'd like you to know that I've read your selected pieces (well, the one I hadn't read before.) I have to disagree that higher education is malignant indoctrination across the board. (I'm afraid primary and secondary can tell a whole 'nother story) I will concede that for the most part the only people who are really taught to think critically and objectively about the world are those who pursue the liberal arts, and they are of course absent from places of power in a laughably transparent manner.

It's interesting you bring up paying for college as part of why it is a broken system for the purposes of nurturing true intelligence vs the currently dominant skill of system savvy, because I couldn't agree more. The vast cost of an education in the United States means that students here are often left looking at something that should be a rite of passage into mature cognitive abilities solely as a career investment... but what choice is there?

When I talk about "quality of life" which you seem to be confused about, I'm not talking financially, but rather about cultural capital. Because I honestly believe that somebody like a tradesman will have a better life if he can access an affordable liberal arts education. He will read more, think more, and raise more intelligent children. His more complete opinions, dialog, and comprehension of world affairs will be a blessing to everyone close to him, particularly if they were to be similarly educated. The underlying fear being these are the exact kind of people who look at historical examples and then serve to organize labor or opinion; the simple fact that lobbying strength is in reality quite distinct from respective funding being enough to mobilize entrenched interests against this sort of thing. Of course, others would argue (more openly) that this would be inefficient waste, training people to do something they probably won't be paid for, and to them I would point out that college for all is a societal investment which guarantees returns in personal happiness and needed scrutiny, whereas college as a risky personal investment can undermine what should be some of the most important lessons for those lucky enough to attend. Clearly from some of the posts I've read in here there are some who will be rather aghast at this proposal... but their base anti-intellectualism is so severe I cannot afford to care...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sleepy1212

US Population: 307,006,550; homeless: 1,400,000; rate 0.00465

Australia: 21,431,800; 105,000; 0.00489

Germany: 82,110,097; 591,000; 0.00719

Canada: 33,311,400; 150,000-300,000; 0.00450-0.00900

*all from first page of google results

It's nice to have company in 100-years-ago-land. Especially when your still the best.

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Didn't you guys say that it doesn't matter where your born into, hard working is the only thing that determines success?

Jesus fucking christ guys, to make a claim that either hard work or your origin is the end all be all decider of where/how you'll end up is just fucking lunacy. Obviously if you're from a well off family you have a better chance at success. Many people even have financial success prepared for them from the moment they're born (its easy to piss this away and end up a failure anyways). Does this damn the poor man to being poor forever? Maybe, but maybe not. Hard work is damn well necessary for success no matter who you are. does hard work guarantee success? Fuck. No. There are so many other factors, and sometimes, you're just fucked. Is this the fault of the nation? I think not. The only crime America has committed (that is relevant to this conversation) is making fucking promises. We are no different than any other country, we have our class gradient and our success gradient, and it is not possible for everyone to be happy (by the stereotypical american definition of happiness). This is the morbid truth for ANY civilization.

Does making these promises make us bad people? Does our nation's self promoted image reflect the attitudes of the actual citizens? No and no.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodzilla and the other guy

America is seriously a 100 years behind.

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And your countries are so great right? Its fair to say that we are all "behind" in different aspects. Hows that censorship coming there, bod? Crash, I do not know who you are or where you're from, but I'd be incredibly surprised to hear that you have no gripes with your own country. In fact, that would be a ridiculous display of nationalism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodzilla

if you think that which family your born into doesn't affect your health, opportunity's, income and success, through your life.... well your deluded.
simple as that tbh.

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I'd like to take this time to say that no one on this forum, and likely no one in the media you have access to is an adequate representation of their nation. If you're judging my country based on Paladin's statements, keep in mind that it isn't just non-americans who think he's full of shit.







TLDR: Shut the fuck up. Everyone on earth is wrong. The only difference is that some are more wrong than others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paladin

This is almost the complete opposite of what America stands for. You can become anything you want to be regaurdless of race, class, or creed. Look at our President. He grew up in a poor black family, got scholarships to prestigious Ivy League schools, became a young senator dispite many challenges, and became the youngest and first black president.

---

For a minute there it sounded like you actually LIKED Obama. That would've been the surprise of the decade.

I like Obama, just not his polices

Stop dogging the homeless as morons and scum of the earth. There are actually people who want to be homeless, people who have found answers outside of the luxuries we have. There are homeless who even are more scholarly than most undergraduates. So what does this mean? Research your homeless before you start blaring it's a horrid thing; stereotypes only lead to stupidity and horrible answers. Oh and misinterpreting statements is also a smart thing not to do.

With the homeless issue discussed and out of the way, I just want to say that the United States is probably ONE of the greatest Countries (along side Britain and Japan tbqh) to live in on the planet. Why is that? The U.S. gives you a choice on how to live your life in anyway you want it (exceptions include obvious laws people) without traditions and cultures butting in to literally destroy your life. I'm not saying other countries don't have this aspect, but screwing up in India on certain issues that you could normally withstand in America will get you potentially killed. Or worse. People take the freedoms that countries like the U.S. offer for granted and that honestly makes me sick. DESPITE THE POLITICAL BULLCRAP AND THE FAILING WORLD ECONOMY, I think the U.S. is an okay place.

dark halo.

you have got to be fucking joking.

i mean seriously
that is the dumbest thing i've ever seen and i've seen glen beck throwing frogs into boiling water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkHalo003

Stop dogging the homeless as morons and scum of the earth. There are actually people who want to be homeless, people who have found answers outside of the luxuries we have. There are homeless who even are more scholarly than most undergraduates. So what does this mean? Research your homeless before you start blaring it's a horrid thing; stereotypes only lead to stupidity and horrible answers. Oh and misinterpreting statements is also a smart thing not to do.

With the homeless issue discussed and out of the way, I just want to say that the United States is probably the greatest Country (along side Britain and Japan tbqh) to live in on the planet. Why is that? You figure it out. I'll just put it simple, the U.S. gives you a choice on how to live your life in anyway you want it (exceptions include obvious laws people) without traditions and cultures butting in to literally destroy your life. I'm not saying other countries don't have this aspect, but screwing up in India on certain issues that you could normally withstand in America will get you potentially killed. Or worse. People take the freedoms that countries like the U.S. offer for granted and that honestly makes me sick.

---

This is fiction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mass

Though I find your (sometimes excruciating) cynicism perfectly reasonable, and I'd like you to know that I've read your selected pieces (well, the one I hadn't read before.) I have to disagree that higher education is malignant indoctrination across the board. (I'm afraid primary and secondary can tell a whole 'nother story) I will concede that for the most part the only people who are really taught to think critically and objectively about the world are those who pursue the liberal arts, and they are of course absent from places of power in a laughably transparent manner.

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Exactly. The only people who are told to think for themselves are the ones that want to go into art or business... even then that's stretching it because the professors and books still tell them what to think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mass

It's interesting you bring up paying for college as part of why it is a broken system for the purposes of nurturing true intelligence vs the currently dominant skill of system savvy, because I couldn't agree more. The vast cost of an education in the United States means that students here are often left looking at something that should be a rite of passage into mature cognitive abilities solely as a career investment... but what choice is there?

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My vote goes into removing the ability of the federal government to own/give out/subsidize student loans- stdnt loans from the gvt. means that the government will give it to the students at low rates and more flexibility however it also means that the colleges can raise rates indefinitely without much of a hit to their student population on a yearly basis... making student loans non-government operated (however, still regulated) would probably drop college rates across the board 5-20% (don't quote me on that) because since no one is going to the college, they have to lower rates to get more people to come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mass

When I talk about "quality of life" which you seem to be confused about, I'm not talking financially, but rather about cultural capital. Because I honestly believe that somebody like a tradesman will have a better life if he can access an affordable liberal arts education. He will read more, think more, and raise more intelligent children. His more complete opinions, dialog, and comprehension of world affairs will be a blessing to everyone close to him, particularly if they were to be similarly educated. The underlying fear being these are the exact kind of people who look at historical examples and then serve to organize labor or opinion; the simple fact that lobbying strength is in reality quite distinct from respective funding being enough to mobilize entrenched interests against this sort of thing. Of course, others would argue (more openly) that this would be inefficient waste, training people to do something they probably won't be paid for, and to them I would point out that college for all is a societal investment which guarantees returns in personal happiness and needed scrutiny, whereas college as a risky personal investment can undermine what should be some of the most important lessons for those lucky enough to attend. Clearly from some of the posts I've read in here there are some who will be rather aghast at this proposal... but their base anti-intellectualism is so severe I cannot afford to care...

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If I operated under your definition of "Quality of Life" or at least argued with that definition in mind, then I would say that people can get an open mind and learn fiscal responsibility, learn things about the way things work (around the house, cars, pipes, whatever as long as it can be valuable, in any fashion, monetary or otherwise) would not requires college- It seems that in order to maintain and have that kind of a quality of life you think that it requires a college education, which I assure you, it does not. I have taught myself (what little I know) programming. With my grandpa who was a pilot, I am within 10 hrs and a written test of a license. I go to the bookstore and I see all these "DIY" manuals for electronics, making T.V.s, plumbing diy, etc etc. The information is out there to get a "High" quality of life, in your definition (I agree wholly with your definition and may be using it instead of mine?), without having to go to college.

I suppose at this point it is upon the parents to teach their children how to learn on their own without having to worry about getting a grade for it or paying top dollar for it.

At the end of the day, if a person really had to, and they had the skills for it, they could get a job without having a degree. Degrees might get you an inch further in the door of an employer but it's the person's ability to do the stuff the employer needs done that gets and keeps the job. Same thing with Art- I could grab some art books and paint/sketch and what have you 6 hours a day, then if my stuff was good enough, it could get me a job.

I remember someone once told me something to this effect "Back in the day, College taught you valuable stuff you would do for the rest of your life. Now all a degree shows is that you are willing to do stuff you don't really want to do."

<Blabbered, may not even have hit the point I was trying to reaffirm>