Printable View
http://usnewsnbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/12/15117305-petition-for-texas-to-secede-from-us-reaches-threshold-for-white-house-response?lite
Whelp.Quote:
An online petition that calls for the state to Texas to withdraw from the U.S. and create its own government on Monday reached the required signature threshold to receive an official response from The White House.
We're not the only state doing that. I am honestly for it, but I'm not gonna go much into this subject on this forum.
White House: ....No....
I say go for it, whilst you're at it have a few more states break away as well.
Watch washington become the central of it's own state.
Do it.
Unlikely if will happen anytime soon.
Texas could survive economicly, and militarly, but theres other things to account for.
Maybe that will make Georgia's economy better? I'm wondering both cons and pros. I'm just really worried about unforeseen issues if this ever was able to happen.
Not all states have the capacity to sustain themselves. The south will probably have to unite.
Look at some of the Democratic states going bankrupt under liberal governments.
Oh Christ. I like Georgia, but people are ridiculously old fashioned politically. They also love to exaggerate, WHICH I FUCKING HATE. Imagine that same concept but multiplied by 7-10. D:Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
Not saying I like that idea, but some states just won't survive a succession.
I simply have to agree. That's what worries me. It really cannot be a rash move or a lot of people are going to suffer for it without them having any control.Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
We'll happily donate Quebec to join whatever new country the seceding states want to form :P
(within a few days they'll be begging to join the United States once more)
Awww poor Quebecians. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Buckshot
Sheldon Cooper will be ashamed.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out :3
no, no, please. tell us moreQuote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
yes, like the whole "socially backwards by nearly a century" thing, that could cause problemsQuote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
I'm gonna be honest here. You're one of the main reasons why I avoid threads like these. You think you know everything concerning our country when in fact you don't.
All you do is base your knowledge from the media or what he/she said.
Are you fucking serious? You gotta be really fucking stupid to think that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
It strikes me that this response precisely confirms his attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
Texas is just jelly because Alaska is the biggest state...
Okay they're backwards by only half a century. It's a rather childish thing to want to secede, especially since nothing is being done to them by the government, but given the nature of the people living there it's not entirely surprising. I'm under the impression that governments everywhere in the US suck, and I'll probably be leaving the country when I can.
Pretty sure you and I already had this discussion. But while we're at it let's discuss all the Kangaroos in your back yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Oh look, there goes my dumbass country embarrassing itself...again.
Seriously, can we just work with Obama instead of wanting to see the whole country collapse? People need to grow the fuck up.
hey remember the part where lynchings in texas were considered family days out well into the 1900s and 1910s, and more recently, the part where the state governor refused to pardon anybody on death row (btw anywhere that has capital punishment is automatically backwards at least half a century automatically, sorry) even after they were proven to be innocent?Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
tell me more about how i am a giant ignorant dumb foreigner who Just Doesn't Understand please this should be fun
It's not that I think you're stupid Rossmum, it's just that you tend to generalize a lot. There are a lot of people who don't fit your descriptions of what you consider a bunch of fucktards yet are linked to said fucktards in some manner. For example, saying that the whole state is backwards a century is really insulting to the populations that are up to modern times. That's like that generalization you had with all conservatives being total backwards fuckwits when in fact half of conservatives are merely economic conservatives and are liberal with domestic policies. Point being Rossmum, as I'm seeing it, he's kind of pissed you keep generalizing his whole state as a bunch of backwards fuckwits when that is not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Why, because he can destroy you in any logical argument and you have nothing that you can use to defend your viewpoints lol?Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
Need I remind you that Rick Perry is your governor.Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
it's you're. you're. as in you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
well if the state is governed by a morally bankrupt murderer who appears to get off on his godlike ability to dictate who lives and who dies (by basically saying fuck it everybody dies) then i think that is a pretty good indication that the state is pretty fucking backwards and at least some majority of its population have no issues at all with thatQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
i don't recall saying 'literally every fucking texan is a backwards hick', and would appreciate it if you, him, or anyone else in here would point out where those words materialised in my post, since i can't seem to find them. i do recall saying the state is backwards, because that is empirically true and if you don't like that you should probably do something about it or move somewhere else or something i guessQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
i mean if i lived somewhere where the death penalty was not only legal but a genuine thing that got used all the time i would pretty much want to curl up and die of shame, or move somewhere else and try detach myself as far as possible from it or something
edit: here's a tip also: every time someone says "it's not that i think..." it is generally a safe assumption that they think exactly that and are just trying to put it in a way that won't offend as much, or if they genuinely don't mean that then their wording is just really weird and pointless
Whoops, let that grammar slip. I knew it didn't look right. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
I was simply saying Rossmum that your posts come off as generalizations a lot, even if they are not. No you did not say specifically every Texan is a backwards fuckwit, but when you say the state of Texas is, then you're insulting them. Now if you said the government of the Texan state or the Texas politicians or even as far as saying Texas has a lot of backwards hicks, then that's all dandy.
As far as implying that Texans were backward:
Does it say all Texans? No. However, it is WAY over the top for your argument, not to mention you come off so aggressively with this history. All you had to say was the latter portion and then state that you primarily mean the vocal majority alongside the political entities of Texas. Otherwise, you're argument looks insulting to the people who aren't backwards. They still love the state (not the politcal entity per say, but the land/culture within which they live) they are in and have harmless pride because it's their home.Quote:
hey remember the part where lynchings in texas were considered family days out well into the 1900s and 1910s, and more recently, the part where the state governor refused to pardon anybody on death row (btw anywhere that has capital punishment is automatically backwards at least half a century automatically, sorry) even after they were proven to be innocent?
For example, if you said the state of Georgia was a sack of shit with nothing but hicks and rednecks, then I'd be insulted because I'm neither and Georgia is a very pretty state. My pride in Georgia is its diverse geology, crazy weather patterns, and other non-political-sociological factors.
In other words, to me it looks like you are grouping everyone together, when you are not, with half your arguments. Call me a fuckwit for it, but I think I'd be okay with Rossmum posts if they were always more specific. It's just you post so aggressively and kind of angrily that it's difficult to tell if you're actually wanting to gut the hell out of the other person or just blatantly stating information. The implied meaning comes of wrong. Both really lack ediquette regardless.
Generalizations are unavoidable and necessary for discussions. It's obvious that at a certain level of intellect a sentence like "People in the state of Texas are..." does not mean "everyone, no exception". Painting an image black and white is sometimes necessary to get the point across.
I had a post written out for this, but this is not the place to discuss the matter of what posting etiquette is and what Rossmums posts are. This is about a group of Texans writing a petition to the White House for secession.The fact is, it's a form of protest from citizens. In no way is the state government actually thinking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrickssj6
So whether or not you see me cowarding away from the argument, I don't want this thread to derail from this interesting subject of such a big protest. These petitions can be signed and sent to the White House with guidelines found here:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/how-why/introduction
A better question for all of you fine folks: who actually read the article?
All I see is a mess of quotation boxes.
Texas and the South suck and we don't want them.
Besides, Canada will probably take in the NW and NE and everyone else can have their crappy Jesus loving country.
Didn't know there was a thread on this here. I was telling people that Obama needs to step up and act like a parent for a spoiled child on this one. Tell them that if their state capitals call for it, Obama would welcome them to leave. With the exception of three states, all of them absolutely rely on federal dollars to sustain themselves. Also, if they all succeeded from the states, America's obesity rate would drop by about 75%.
By the time they try to gather up local taxes to keep their schools, governments, and medical systems (hospitals) afloat they'd be begging to get back in after complaining about how they paid less taxes under the states.
State military bases would be interesting though. Especially in Kentucky.
If he did this, I'd have new-found respect for him. It really is silly on the extremes people seem to want to go for this sort of thing. Right after the election, people acted like it was the end of the world. The faithful were chanting that God is in control as if the Apocalypse is inbound since their candidate did not win. According to the polls, no one gives a shit about foreign policy, which is classic American isolationism for you, but the fact that we tie our hands into so much of the world with such little concern for foreign policy is horrible. Half of America (if not more) does not know what their government is doing in the world. None of them probably realize how corrupt their government is and how deviant the desires of their local representatives are in comaprison to their own (those desires being selfish and self-promoting). We need term limits on our representatives in Congress, yet people seem to be more worried about the Presidency of a man we've already had in office (so we basically know how he's going to be for another 4 years). Our bureaucracy is a fucking mess. None of our budgets are optimized, 3/5 of the important ones are underfunded, 2 of them are overfunded, and those who realize it aren't numerous enough to change it. The numerous portions are stuck in a fairyland of ignorance (all across the nation). To the point, people need to understand what really is fucked up in this nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph
Rossmum, you're living in a country that founded for prisoners. That is the more backward than Texas.
What I will say, there is a great deal more than you think to keep an area independent. Simply saying oh I think Texas on its own will be self-sufficient, is really a guess. You will only know once the deal has been done, it all depends on bureaucracy with outer elements.
This part is what bothers me when people sign these petitions out of protest. They have no idea how dangerous it can be, especially for the innocent and those who don't have a choice to go elsewhere. The state could implode and many devastated in the process, all out of some self-righteous fury and rashness. People want to stay in their comfort zones instead of attempt learning to adjust and it's just frustrating to see. They don't want to overcome their obstacles. They want their obstacles to just disappear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
I agree. Lets say for example Texas becomes its own country, I'm not entirely sure what they are petitioning for, but lets say its now a country. Do they assume they will have international deal with the US to extradict prisoners? If a Texan goes into US commits a crime, and gets arrested. Do they get tried in the US, or do they go back to Texas? How about law agencies, will they work together? Will they join some sort of North American agreement to pass intelligence from all sides, which is what Interpol does/acts as for Europe.
What about telecommunications? Will they have deals with the US over costs? Or will calling from Texas to another US state use international cost rates? Do you pay taxes to Texas or US? You will lose certain elements from the US government but all your taxes will go directly to Texas, will the new Texas lose out on money overall in the deal?
There are thousands of things you need to consider.
i really don't care if texans are insulted by me stating the obvious truth. they can move, they can try and change things themselves, or they can get offended because "those people are actually a minority" when that is clearly not true given the state of the... well, state.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
but why be so specific when it is not accurate? the government of texas, a good deal of its politicans, and a good deal of its citizens (clearly a majority) are cool with the state being backwards. i am not going to tiptoe around the fucking issue just to avoid upsetting snowflakes who can't handle the real world and want to pretend the place they live in isn't horrifically fucked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
see aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
but that is not even vaguely comparable to what i said, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
i am not going to distort the fucking truth by being specific where it is not appropriate. if rick perry was the only socially backwards person in texas, i would say rick fucking perry. as it happens, the entire state is, as a result of a significant portion of those who live within it either actively supporting, or being complicit with, the current regime. i am referring to the state as an entity and not to the people directly, otherwise i would have said 'texans are backwards'.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
i assume this is a flippant comment since it is demonstrably false, as backwards and shitty as this place is (i don't know if you've noticed but i severely dislike it and am desperately trying to claw together the funds to move)Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
This is ironic given our conversation on steam a week or so ago, you bitched so much about Obama and how he doesn't do things the way you would prefer them to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHalo003
So, the British didnt set up a penal colony? Strange, so your saying history is lying?
Texas becoming independent is an idiotic idea, one that the people voting yes havent fully grasped. They want NASA to remain functioning and running operations that drives a large part of Texas's economy? Texas doesnt have an army or navy or an air force, so you would create your own or ask to borrow America's?
To me it sounds like a bunch of republicans are getting pissy because they lost the election.
Currently 0.2% of the population of Texas has signed the petition, I mean cmon really? There is no way in hell this will go through.
In other news: Roosterteeth studios moves to Oklahoma.
NASA doesn't contribute much to our economy anymore. I know a handful of people that got lay off, because if the shuttle retirementQuote:
Originally Posted by Limited
Texas has quite a few number of military basses
7 Air forces Basses
4 Army Basses
4 Navy Basses
Texas could automatically keep those Basses if it were to secede. Keeping those basses occupied wouldn't be much of a problem since Texas holds a large number of military recruits.
@rossmum How can you come to these conclusions when you don't even live in Texas or even in the United States. I'm sorry to tell you that what the media, and textbooks teach you is mostly misleading.
Texas contributes large amounts to the US economy whether you agree or not. It gives more than it gets in return.
The president will never allow a succession especially from Texas. There is really no point in seceding at this point.
Did you post this to call me out? Just because I would prefer he did other things doesn't mean I'm not going to attempt in learning to adjust if things deteriorate for certain programs in the state as a result of weakened funding. In this scenario, people are so recklessly riled-up they aren't even thinking of the latter. They're filing a petition for a ridiculous thought that would do more harm to them than good. They aren't even trying to adapt, merely trying to force their concerns so they don't have to. In other words, they aren't trying to evolve or strengthen, just remain what they have been. I at least want to try branching out even if obstacles from the current administration come my way.Quote:
Originally Posted by =sw=warlord
Even more so, I can at least see the bigger issues facing the country and political-socio structures than a lost presidential election. They see cause for secession with the incumbent remaining in office, which is ridiculously drastic.
I don't really understand what Rossmum labels as "backwards"
To those people, what he does and what he believes in is "backwards"
Please explain Ross, because I want to see your definition of this before making an actual argument about it.
Funny how that show used to be largely Texan with refrences and music.
At least we won't have to change the national flag...
We'll just add Iraq to our list of states.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingFisher
What you don't understand is the US Government owns those bases. Texas would have to pay them off for them. You also wouldn't get those recruits, because those recruits are under the US government too. I doubt they would forfeit their pensions and benefits to swap over to the new 'Texan Country'.Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
You cannot assume anything that is within the land area of Texas, will be the property of the new country Texas we are talking about. All the infrastructure will either have to be bought out, or loaned out from the US. Water, gas, electricity etc; extensive trade deals will have to be made to make the new country viable and sustainable.
DOO IIITTTTT
This is what some people actually believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
lmfao.
Last I checked, nearly half the state of Texas voted blue in the last election. And I guarente you there's a healthy portion of intelligent people who voted red as well(again, as I said in the last thread, people who are economically conservative).
I don't think that's all that backward.
Honestly Ross, your posts are melting together. You act like we're asking you to pussify yourself. Calm down, dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...a#ColonisationQuote:
Originally Posted by Bodzilla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia
It's not entirely true, but it's not entirely untrue either.
We're talking about a peaceful succession here, so a deal will certainly have to be made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
Texas has its own power, grid and enough water for its population.
The infrastructure for refineries is already here, and offshore drilling regulations would be gone.
No but seriously you do ride a Kangaroo to work right? And use the word Crikey in normal conversation?Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Stupid generalizations really show me how socially advanced you must be!
Roads, rail, ports, and airports as well. Interstates would have to be manipulated and even rerouted to provide method to stay within the States. It's also likely that the military will deploy around the inner border of Free-Texas since the US Border patrol would have no right to enforce the Texas-Mexico border.Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
It would also create hell for businesses heavily reliant on trade in and outside of Texas. Tariffs and all, you know. What of people with property in both Texas and the States? It's a logistical nightmare that won't be resolved for years.
If Texas was to secede from the union it would probably throw things into motion that i think would, in the future, end up unifying the nation more. Just a thought.
Precedent has already been set. States do not have the right to secede from the Union. I can't believe this shit I'm reading these days...
So when is the whitehouse going to tell the residents of Texas to get over themselves.
This. You may not leave the Union. Were the Union to dissolve, then it would be a free for all. But it hasn't so it stays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
Also why is it that Europe and Africa and Asia are split into like, a billion countries, and North America is three? I'd like to see this changed.
I think part of why there are so many states over there is because of a long history of wars. People want to be separate and follow their own rules, others desire land. It fragments the continents into different countries. How many wars were fought here? Very few, and if other nations owned land, we bought it because it would cost them more to fight for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
Pray for a lot of territorial wars in North America if you have hopes to see a few nations fracture apart.
Because those continents had been host to the majority of the Earth's population for a much longer time before North America was colonized. Ergo, much more time to fracture.
Edit: ^ Beat me to it.
Tip for Texas: Get yourself a Gandhi and demand home-rule. That's the best-case scenario I can recall of a new nation being founded by asking for independence.
This, just make sure the Gandhi isn't a judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehoodedsmack
Need to stop being a ninja. It distracts from the quality posters.
Yeah, but hooded is right. The longevity of these continents matters big time. And parts of it isn't just war; albeit, that is a big part. Socio-political issues also come into play, just like they are doing here and now.
No, it wouldn't. Those bases are FEDERAL property. Texas as a state does not own them nor has jurisdiction over them.Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
Those military recruits are also employees of the FEDERAL government. Texas as a state does not hold any power over their contract.
Had the Europeans not expanded outward andQuote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
colonisedconquered the Americas, it's very likely that the continent would have ended up the same way. The Native Americans we not just tribes, they were nations. They just hadn't progressed (regressed?) in the same way that Europe had.
It's conquered. Call it what it is. Glorious, bloody conquest.
Happy?
I'm never happyQuote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
from what I understand a collapse is inevitable. I can understand states wanting to get the fuck out before it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by ODX
Living in Washington State, having moved from Florida, I can tell you thinks are FAAAAR different here than the south
no but i'm saying that if you posted that as anything other than a joke you really haven't learned anything. hmmm yes, this country which was first established as a prison colony and was later settled in successively larger and larger waves by first british and then other european free men, and is more politically and ideologically similar to the united kingdom than it is almost anything else, is clearly more backwards than texas. i mean, proper healthcare and a decent welfare system? pah, what kind of shitty commie pinko prison colonies have those?Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
oh right, the uk has them too...
it's cute how you kids keep assuming any of this comes from 'the media' (hint: our media, and in fact most of the world's, is not like yours; they generally deal in facts and not fairy stories and any political bias is so minor it may as well not be there) or 'textbooks' (lol what the fuck textbooks would i be reading this from?), instead of things like 'family and friends who have lived, or are currently living in, the united states', 'personal experience from time spent in the united states', or 'actual facts about america from non-politically-biased sources'Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
or are you seriously trying to tell me that the lie-beral media just want me to believe that rick perry is the scum of the earth and that the majority of texans are either so happy with him or so utterly lacking in compassion and human decency that they allowed this shitlord to hold the position he did? because i'm pretty sure all those death row inmates he failed to pardon regardless of guilt or innocence aren't some invention of the fucking media you arrogant little shit
i don't recall ever saying a damn word about the us economy, and i also don't see how you think this is even tangentially relevant since economic concerns have approximately 'fuck' and 'shit' to do with the social advancement of a community, state, country, or otherwiseQuote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
people who think survival of the fittest is a cool & acceptable idea in an era where we have the means to make sure everyone has at the very least the basic human requirements, people who think killing another human being is okay and that revenge is anything other than a shitty and despicable motive for anything, people who think they have the right to ban others from enjoying the same rights they do based on some stupid shitty interpretation of a 3,000 year old text which is only important or sacred to them, would you like me to continueQuote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
i don't know man, take a look at those assholes and then at early cavemen and then at me and decide which is more similar in behaviourQuote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
all i know is that civilised and well-adjusted humans do not under any circumstances condone the killing of other humans, let alone whoop and holler and invite the whole fucking family along for a picnic
this is an incredibly stupid argument that does not even begin to make sense. i honestly expected better from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
the kangaroo and crikey thing is the result of a stereotype with zero actual evidence to back it up as being a thing.
'texas being backwards' is backed up by the fact your state was down with lynching black kids for crimes white kids committed well into the 20th century and also being okay with the man running it signing off the death warrants of scores of people, several of them innocent, just because he could and because somehow in your fucked up country people think revenge is cool and good and the aim of prison is to punish, not rehabilitate.
Right, so we're all fucked up because of a few standouts and some shit that happened over a century ago. I only replied to incredible stupidity with the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Ross, your opinion of civilized is laughable coming from the group that slaughtered people all over the world for financial profit for 300 years. Also, your prison opinion is hilarious since you are in love with the Soviets.
As far as the KKK are concerned, that is the worst kind of bigotry that is often seen from people outside of this country. It's pathetic that you would make an argument based on what people did 100 years ago, since 100 years ago the Brits were busy raping every Indian woman in sight and burning/enslaving their men. Your double standard is really pretty disgusting.
That said, I am from the North so yeah, Texas is a crazy place. Not anywhere I would want to live for sure. Far too conservative and I can't stand the social stratum there. I'm a liberal at heart and can't stand the politics that seem to be common in that place. Anywhere where Rick Perry can win a major election is an atrocity.
inb4...
Left 4 Texas: Rise of the Boomers
Yeah I remember some of these casses. Don't blame perry for it, blame the damn forensic testimony.Quote:
it's cute how you kids keep assuming any of this comes from 'the media' (hint: our media, and in fact most of the world's, is not like yours; they generally deal in facts and not fairy stories and any political bias is so minor it may as well not be there) or 'textbooks' (lol what the fuck textbooks would i be reading this from?), instead of things like 'family and friends who have lived, or are currently living in, the united states', 'personal experience from time spent in the united states', or 'actual facts about america from non-politically-biased sources'
or are you seriously trying to tell me that the lie-beral media just want me to believe that rick perry is the scum of the earth and that the majority of texans are either so happy with him or so utterly lacking in compassion and human decency that they allowed this shitlord to hold the position he did? because i'm pretty sure all those death row inmates he failed to pardon regardless of guilt or innocence aren't some invention of the fucking media you arrogant little shit
If you take somebodies life do you deserve yo to live? Absolutely not.
I understand innocent people get put into death roll, and I really feel sympathy for them, but then again life isn't fair is it?
Was this directed towards you? Don't think so. All I said was that the US would never allow an economy like Texas's just slip away.Quote:
i don't recall ever saying a damn word about the us economy, and i also don't see how you think this is even tangentially relevant since economic concerns have approximately 'fuck' and 'shit' to do with the social advancement of a community, state, country, or otherwise
I work with blacks and Mexicans every day. I have openly gay friends. I'm a professed Athiest and nobody seems to mind. For the most part, the only intolerance here is facetious. I do live in a major city and it's true that the ignorance gets more intense as you get further into the country, but I think you could say that about anywhere. It's been my experience that most people who think they know what Texas is like know exactly shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
texas, the state, is backwardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
the state
p.s. calling government-sanctioned murder and several incredibly violent and grotesque lynchings 'a few standouts' is both insulting and incredibly arrogant
what group would this be? i don't recall being born in 1700s britain, nor do i recall ever endorsing its actions, nor is that particularly different from what america has been doing for the last 100Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
lol yes i am so very in love, let me tell you how i agree with all soviet policy 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
...except the bit where if you had ever spoken to me about that specific issue you'd find out pretty fucking quickly that i think the rsfsr took several wrong turns very early on which it never recovered from, and at the end of the day the soviet union was special for being the first constitutionally socialist state, not because it was in any way an ideal socialist state
i swear for people who try and pull the "WHAT DO YOU KNOW YOU DON'T LIVE HERE" argument the people on this site love straight up assuming shit about me or putting words in my mouth without bothering to ask first
lol you think i was talking about the kkk? that was the doing of the good people of plano, texas, including most of the local government and police. the people who did the lynching were not wearing white bedsheets, they were ordinary townsfolk, just like the vast majority of lynchings in american history. by the way there were still lynchings happening in the 1960s in america, think about that for a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
also where did i ever defend the crimes of the british? i am calling america backwards because it is, it is decades behind even them. the british abolished slavery in the 18th century, it took america over fifty years to do same and they had a civil war over it because the south didn't agree. the british generally quit lynching people around the early 20th century (and that tended to be white people who did really unpopular things like rape and murder, not black people who were guilty of nothing more than being easy scapegoats). ordinary, non-kkk americans were happily lynching people until the 1960s. britain put an end to the death penalty in either the 60s or 70s from what i recall, and it hadn't really been practiced much for several years before it was finally abolished. so far only a few american states have stopped using it, most of them still murder people in the name of "justice" (hahahaha) on a regular basis, including texas.
even a country with as horrible a track record as the uk is far ahead of the us, and has been consistently throughout history. i don't need to pretend the uk is perfect, i think the fact that the us is even worse speaks for itself.
p.s., just to pre-empt anyone actually moronic enough to claim it is cheaper than keeping someone in prison for their entire life, no it actually isn't, so even the most basic attempts to justify killing people for your own disgusting revenge falter in the face of actual, rational thought.
hmmm yes, don't blame the man who could have prevented people being killed, there is surely no blood on his handsQuote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
you are a repulsive slug and your attitude towards human life literally makes me want to vomitQuote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
no seriously this right here? you are a truly awful person and in any real country saying something so stupid as that would mark you as a social pariah for life. i'd tell you to kill yourself but i do not share your absolutely fucking reproachable attitude towards other humans so i would never be able to live with myself if i did say itQuote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
if this was as much the case as you make out, then the death penalty would no longer exist, texas would be a blue state or at the very least not a red one (the irony of the far right using red in the us kills me every time), and this entire discussion would not be taking place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
even assuming that you are correct in extrapolating from your anecdotal evidence that texans are not as bad as the state makes them seem as a whole, they are still pretty fucking bad for not standing up for their beliefs if they can honestly sit on their hands while the man who is governing their state and representing them at a federal level is killing people like it is going out of style. they could be the chillest, leftest leaning people in the world but as long as they just shrug their shoulders and pretend there is nothing they can do about it they are no better than the assholes who are causing it to be the way it is in the first place
basically what i'm saying is if you think that killing another human in any circumstance whatsoever can be excused or justified you are an awful person with absolutely abhorrent views and you are an embodiment of the reason europeans, canadians, australians, and really basically the entire civilised world cannot take americans seriously
edit: also, to clarify, arbiter: please do not ever kill yourself, instead please try and experience the real world outside your terrifying weirdo little conservative bubble so maybe you, like me, can realise what a fucking retard you are and then adjust your opinions appropriately. look at me, i fell out of the upper middle class and used to think the poor were all shitty and lazy and now i love them because they are unironically far better people than most of my old middle-class aquaintenances were (and also most people on this forum too).
I hear Austin is a nice place.
And it's exactly that stance that make you lot look worse than the Chinese in terms of actually understanding human ethics.Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
Killing someone because they've already killed someone puts blood on your hands and gives them an easy way out.
you do not under any circumstance become a leader when you allow yourself to drop to the level of those you are trying to make an example out of, to do so shows your vanity and shows just how weak you truly are.
you want to punish someone and force them to show remorse? show them the emotional impact they've caused on those around them, not just the victims but the impact their loved ones and the shame they would now feel being associated with such a person as them.
Texas is so backward it still has a prohibition on gambling because the government doesn't even trust it's own populace to even be responsible with their own money, how the hell it expects to survive if it does break off from the union is beyond me, at least in economically worse places like north Korea they actually have some idea of what responsibility is unlike the population of Texas, the population that can't balance a bank account and can't balance it's own justice service and prefers to just execute instead of figuring out why such people exist and prevent such occurrences in the future.
man i sure am glad such intelligent and thoughtful people as forumsshitposter arbiter901 are here to ensure that no criminal is ever rehabilitated into society and able to see the error of their ways and perhaps dissuade others from taking that path, instead they are all just killed because that'll learn 'em, let god sort 'em out
Who says this hasn't been tried/done before? It doesn't always work. What are we gonna do with the repeat offenders? We already have a overpopulated jail system as it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
just because it doesn't always work (which is, of course, true) that doesn't mean you can just saw aw shucks fuck it and kill the dude for what is essentially revenge
oh also the reason your jail system is overpopulated is, get this, because it is an industry and the companies that are contracted to run it rake money in hand over fist. therefore it is in the interest of those who run the prisons to make sure they are fully populated, so trying to avoid repeat offenders is actually a bad thing to them. american prisons are themselves criminal violations of international human rights law and are utterly despicable by any civilised standard, they have poor or no rehabilitation options, they are designed to either keep inmates in as long as possible or make them reoffend as soon as possible. add to this the fact that most of your country seems convinced prison is meant to be a harsh punishment and not a conscious effort to unfuck the person or at least figure out what went wrong with them and you have, surprise surprise, a prison system that is bursting at the seams both from overpopulation and fat fucking wads of cash.
but hey i guess it's easier to just murder people and pretend it's okay because they did it first (lol what kind of fucked up child logic is this shit) than to sort out the massive underlying problems that pervade not only the american prison system but american society in general, i mean shit who would've thought that a country with a huge income gap, terrible education system, and shitty quality of life for anyone below middle class would be full of crime? what a fucking shock, truly none could have forseen these dire circumstances
Ross, saying that you never defended Britain doesn't refudiate my point. You live in a commonwealth country. I live in the US. It's about the same level of contact, especially since my ancestors fled to America in the 1920's from Ireland. Or my ancestors who came from Scotland at that same time. Or my Danish ancestors from the 1940's who were retreating from an advancing Nazi hoard. Or the Tuskarora who lived/live on their tiny reservation just south of Buffalo New York.
My point is that Britain was a socially backwards place for a long time, and in some ways is just as bad. At least America doesn't have cameras in its bathrooms. At the same time period when the people of Texas were lynching blacks, my ancestors were dying fighting the British for their freedom. But that's not backwards at all, is it? Stripping away the rights of people who are the same color as you?
My point wasn't about whether or not that happened. It did. My point was that 100 years ago was 100 years ago. The past is a different world. Your points about what is happening in modern times are a lot more poignant imo than what happened in the past. You should stick to that, because I believe it has a lot more staying power.
On the death penalty and prison: America's prison problems extend from it's terrible drug laws. I don't think any drug offense other than selling controlled substances (i.e. cocain, heroin, thinks that actually form a physical addiction and destroy your body) to minors should be a felony. As far as how our prisons work, it's all kinds of fucked up. Rehabilitation is fine and dandy, but I think there are some men you just can't reach. Those men should do hard labor until they die from it. We have lots of landfills in the U.S. with metal and plastic in them, and we need people to sort through them so can repair our country. Why not make those who have seemingly forfeited their rights to do it? As in, between times where you get an education and therapy, work so ball bustingly hard that you actually think about what you did. I don't see what's wrong with that.
As far as the death penalty, I don't know what to believe. There are some people who acts are so heinous that I have a hard time not labeling them as simply being sub-human. People like James Holmes and Ward Weaver. In a system where there is no death penalty, what do you do with them? Varg Vikernes spent 21 years in a Norwegian prison for double murder and burning churches, and he basically says he learned nothing from it other than that you can get away with whatever you want in Norway. It's hard not to react cruelly towards that kind of behavior.
I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
I wouldn't say that it applies to a majority of the country. It's more of people having a lack of help or lack of dedication when taking a direction in life. I have several friends that were under middle class status, but a few loans helped out; ultimately, leading towards a years worth of vocational training. With the training, they were able to make sufficient income to pay off their loans due to having a quality job.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Also, you don't have to be middle class to live a good quality of life. It's the fact that Americans can't seem to manage their money properly, such as the need for an xbox360, IPhone, uber computer, 60inch LED flat screen, etc. Having the ability to afford those shinny objects is not how a "Good Quality of life" should be achieved.
Guys this is probably one of the silliest things i've seen you argue about.
Politics in general is silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo
NOES!
DarkHalo, we need to argue about sillier things or we'll lose our titles...
Texans stole the land from Mexicans long ago! Bad arguments gogogo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
But...that's true and not silly at all...kind of like how the Europeans stole the land from the Native Americans, creating Mexicans and Texans in the first place.
:saddowns:
uh, yeah, it pretty much does.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
i don't see what you're getting at. (the republic of) ireland is not part of the uk, northern ireland was plagued by problems like famine and warfare, and the nazis were pretty clearly an external force. most commonwealth nations (particularly the uk, canada, and australia) as well as several european nations have consistently been upwards of fifty years ahead of america when enacting serious social change for the better, like ending slavery or lynchings or the death penalty. america is backwards. there is no two ways around it, america lags behind the rest of the civilised world terribly in social issues and has done almost since its formation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
britain was less backwards than the united states and still has been for the longest fucking time, i do not understand what part of this concept is so difficult to understand for you? in your country it was still legal to own another human being as property for more than fifty years after it was completely outlawed in most of europe and the british empire. in your country it took them until 19 fucking 60 to stop hanging people who were either black or who were white but supported the civil rights movement out of fucking trees, not the fucking kkk or some other group, but actual ordinary fucking townsfolk. in america it is still legal (and not even considered morally reprehensible) to kill people just because they committed a certain crime, which is objectively disgusting and viewed by the rest of the civilised world as a barbaric, almost caveman-like act (with good reason, being that it is exactly that).Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
you cannot argue with any fucking seriousness that america is not backwards. this isn't a game of "BUT BRITAIN DOES QUESTIONABLE STUFF TOO, OH LOOK AT THIS, CAMERAS IN BATHROOMS" (please point me to proof of this by the way), it is a game of "america still does things that the rest of the supposedly civilised world stopped doing on account of being shitty over half a century ago". i mean if you are really so blindly in love with your country that you think the fucking death penalty still being a thing can be downplayed, you have a disease called nationalism, not patriotism, and are a huge part of the problem yourself. if i lived somewhere where it was considered a good thing to kill people just because i don't like them and they did a bad thing i would never be able to live with myself.
the reason i bring up the past is because it is clear from those instances that this is not a recent phenomenon, and america has been behind by about the same amount from the get-go and never caught up any.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
yes, the war on drugs is colossal stupidity, i am glad we agree thereQuote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
yes, there are a small number of them. very small. there is also the fact that rehabilitation is a constantly evolving and diversifying field, meaning that perhaps someone who couldn't be helped five or ten years ago can be now. it is not an exact science, but that doesn't make it any less critical to pursue.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
i am not sure hard labour is going to make their mental situation any better (probably worse), but hard labour is a bad thing because it basically amounts to slavery. it also takes away jobs that could be given to people who actually need them, because regardless of what people seem to think, there are people willing to do those jobs themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
"it is inherently evil and wrong to consider taking another human's life, let alone doing it, and it does not solve a goddamn thing" is a good place to startQuote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
maybe for a nation that seems utterly unconcerned with human life in every arena that is hard, but there is absolutely nothing to gain from it and it is more expensive to kill them than to keep them locked up for life anyway so welp there's your obvious solution to the problem right there i guess! i mean if you unfuck the prison system you should have tons of space, right? just how common do you think those kinds of people are?Quote:
Originally Posted by TVTyrant
also, having a mental health system worth a damn and instilling a sense of responsibility into people rather than having them fucking ignore their neighbour turning increasingly into a fruitcake because it's "not their business" would probably help too i imagine
right, but without a good education where are you supposed to get any sense of direction or motivation from? a shitty environment coupled with lack of education is what does the lower classes in, even here (although far less noticeably since the bare minimum level of education is far, far higher).Quote:
Originally Posted by KingFisher
all the countries with the worst crime rates? poor education systems, cities with whole areas that are essentially slums, often really stupid and shitty laws and policing too. it's not much of a shock places like detroit or the shittier parts of la are a hotbed of crime, i can't imagine there being much else for anyone to do there.
i agree, but often these people can't even afford what they need - and if they can, they are so fucking affected by advertising (explicitly directed at poor people on a pretty regular basis, because they are generally less educated and therefore less capable of seeing when they are being taken advantage of) that they blow the money on stupid shit they don't need. this is not so much their fault as the fault of a stupid, broken, shitty system where companies can fuck with peoples' heads until they bend to their will. the power of advertising to control people is fucking ridiculous and it ought to be banned, of course this will never happen as long as western nations are in bed with big business and filled with enough conservative morons to scream about GOT-DAMN COMMUNISTS every time the government attempts to make anything approaching progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingFisher
Ah. Well, I can agree with you that public school systems are much more shittier than private school systems. In a whole, you get what you paid for...To my opinion, people would save much more money and time by investing in vocational training. College/Degrees are more of an eye candy for saying "Yes, I am qualified for promotions". Having the qualified skills and a certificate to prove it is about as good as a college degree. I think society should focus on the following: High School > Vocational Training (Required as much as high school) > College (Optional for job promotions or other skill sets).
I did forget to point out that it was advertising that corrupts most Americans. No way would I point it out as their only fault.
Poor choice of words, perhaps. But calling us all backwards because of the actions of a few is also insulting and arrogant.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
You can't make a distinction between Texas the state and its people. A state is made of people.
I don't believe in the death penalty, or political parties, or the political spectrum for that matter. All I'm saying is you've got some pretty fucked up ideas about Texans for someone who doesn't even live here.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Yeah, because every population is super quick to rise up against its government any time something happens they don't like <_<Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Let me know how that goes Australia.
[QUOTE=Pooky;637581]Poor choice of words, perhaps. But calling us all backwards because of the actions of a few is also insulting and arrogant.
if they were really a few, then surely the actions would not have happened in the first place?
so you admit that you are grossly downplaying just how many horribly fucked people live in texas then, since clearly the majority of the population was cool with a shitstain like perry running the show and killing innocents (or just killing, period)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
then how come every time an issue goes to vote in texas, the outcome basically backs up my 'pretty fucked up ideas', and not your insistence that texans are cool & dandy folks who enjoy a good time and are cool with everybody?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
well strikes me they haven't even made an effort to get him gone through legal means let alone any other, more drastic means, so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
this country may be fucked, but at least we are less fucked, so there's thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
here is a fun and cool read, american pals. take note of the 1930-35 period in particular! your nation is truly an inspiration to us all!
Define state, and define backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
it's rediculous how you're going around calling eachother backwards.
because your entire fucking country is fucking retarded.
backwards is a disgusting understatement and it offends me.
really? you've seen them argue about video games but this is the silliest? this is actually a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo
lol from england.Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
Also, someone took the time to actually dig up numbers.
http://americablog.com/2012/11/draft...th-secede.html
Right because first attempts at fixing problems should always have a 100% success rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiter901
You don't just give up if you fail once, if your people had that ideology back in the 1800's you would still be a British colony.
It amazes me that the US feels it should be a world leader when it's own idea of moral justice are less civilized than other places such as Norway.
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.
this thread got angry
honestly, the whole notion of 'you get what you pay for' when it comes to education is FUCKING DISGUSTING and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself if you subscribe to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingFisher
education for money is insanity from the get-go, and leads to NOTHING but restricting knowledge.