Buyer's Remorse - An open letter to the devs of H2V

Buyer's Remorse
An open letter to Microsoft/Bungie on the state of Halo 2 for PC

A LONG, LONG TIME AGO

Almost two years ago, Halo 2 was announced for Windows Vista. For many Halo players of the PC community, this marked a chance to get what we had always dreamed of - a chance for those who never owned the original Xbox version to experience what made one of the top selling games of all time. Community websites started up as havens for the members to take the game to its full potential and push it to the bleeding edge.

When the first screenshots were released to the public, the community was ecstatic. What was once a dream was finally shown to be a reality. Seeing the game running on a PC with enhanced visuals put trust in us and gave us hope for what supposedly lied on the road ahead. As the months progressed, we began to find ourselves more and more left in the dark. It wasn't before long that we were left completely update-less. Any updates we were getting were not exactly "updates" at all, but rather news hype just to raise awareness about the game being in development. When release drew closer and closer, it was then that the development news poured out. Unfortunately, it was this news which turned the game sour and lost the faith of many community members who once had great expectations for the game.

It is now almost half a year since the game's release. The community is in a stalemate. Bugs infest the game to the point where it becomes unplayable. Difficulties are arising with many of the game's inner-workings. Critical features are missing which, without, will lead to the utmost failure of this title. What was once a dream had become a nightmare - one which we cannot wake up from.


II. YOU BREAK IT, WE BUY IT

It is obvious to all of us that you will be oblivious to the problems the game has; you wouldn’t have released it in this state otherwise. Immediately, gameplay issues such as the now infamous ‘button combinations’ and ‘super bounces’ that plagued Halo 2 on the Xbox platform and now, surprisingly, on Vista come to mind. We’ll put that thought aside for now, however, and take a look at one of the most fundamental aspects of the game, which conveniently happens to be one of the most flawed aspects of the game. We are talking, of course, about the game’s engine. In this case, the engine, something which is usually at the back of the gamer’s mind, takes the foreground due to the sheer number of problems. What may appear to you on the surface as a sparkling, clean product is, to us, a completely different story.

With today's games constantly getting more advanced, the demand on the system's resources becomes increasingly greater. Halo 2 for Windows Vista is one game which has more demand and yet offers LESS than any other newer games being released today. What the problem here is the poorly done job of optimizing the game to work with the system it is running on. There is absolutely no reason in the world the game should require over a gigabyte of RAM to get decent loading times. There is no reason the game should be causing a CPU bottleneck and using over 1 GB of RAM (average) in some of the least system-intensive situations. Many of the settings have little to no effect on the game's performance; not because the system cannot increase the performance, but because the game cannot provide the circumstances under which the system would need to perform on.

Whenever experiencing performance issues, the very first thing anyone will go, regardless of their computer knowledge, is to the game's settings. Typically, games will offer the customization of settings to the end user's content. Unfortunately, with H2V, one of the most important settings categories is lacking severely - video. Not only is there no external configuration file to allow the manual editing of settings, but there's nothing to be set. Aside from the detail settings and video resolution, there is virtually no control over what the game displays. Even with these few settings, they too are lacking. The built-in video resolutions offer only limited widescreen support at 1280x720 and 1920x1080 for 16:9, and 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 for 16:10. Some of the most common widescreen resolutions of 1280x768, 1440x900, and 2560x1600 are not supported, not to mention the lack of the ability to set a custom resolution from the game's shortcut. It is also important to note that the video detail setting does not affect the game's overall performance much at all. More advanced video options are desperately needed to let us customize our gaming experience to the way we see fit.

Aside the video settings are the audio settings. While they might not be as frequently visited, it should not play a role in determining the significance of these settings. What we are given is just ONE setting, the game volume, which isn't anything to boast or brag about the slightest bit. There is no ability to actually "set" anything whatsoever. The game volume control needs to be broken down into several more controls: master volume (all), sound effects (gunshots, voices, etc.), and music. Different people have different likings of volume levels, and some just like to listen to their own music while playing games. There is also the need of more advanced audio hardware configuration. The ability to choose the sound hardware is missing in addition to the ability to enable or disable EAX (that is, if it is even implemented into the game).

In most online games, the server browser is the gateway to the player's multiplayer experience. In Halo 2 for Windows Vista, it is undoubtedly the most frequently visited menu out of them all. It was believed that extra care and thought would have gone into the browser, especially being that there are no third party services which can hook into the network such as Xfire, at least as of yet. What happened is the complete opposite of what was expected. Yes, it carries out its ultimate goal of listing the servers, but there is so much more that could bring it up to par with other server browsers in use today. One of the greatest things missing from the browser is the ability to apply filters to the list. As the game grows, there will be more servers. Not all servers will be occupied at once which creates a mess of servers the player has to sift through each and every time they want to join a game. Organizational elements of sorting the servers (favorites, players, etc.) should be remembered even after leaving the menu. With less than 50 servers currently running, the list takes a few seconds to load, and can sometimes even freeze the game for a few seconds. Sometimes the server list doesn't even load at all. Sometimes the server list loads, but the server info is not displayed. Sometimes a server may show 15/16 players, but when attempting to join, the player is rejected. With the inability to refresh individual servers without reloading the entire server list, a hassle is created about joining a simple game. What would be preferred is a system is something similar to Halo PC where clicking on a server would update its statistics instantly. Furthermore, the ability for a player to indefinitely delay a game is one issue which cannot be overlooked. With the inability to set a game delay limit and to see who is delaying it, kicking the player out of the game is out of the picture.

We are aware of the reasons why Halo 2 includes a strong influence of auto-aim and reticle magnetism; it's because with a controller it is much harder to move, aim, and fire with precision. What we don't understand is exactly why that feature is still covered over to the PC port. First person shooter gamers are critical with their games when it comes to aiming, especially when the game does it for you. The question is, who would want to play in a game where some players have a handicap while others don't, and the only reason those players that do have a handicap is because they are using controllers? What is even worse is the constant possibility of an "aimbot" using nothing more than what we are provided. It has already been proven possible to trick the game into to believing you are using a controller when you are, in fact, using a mouse and keyboard. Using nothing more but a roll of scotch tape found in households across the world, the mouse has aim assistance without ANY alterations to the game, violations of the End User License Agreement, or violations of the LIVE Terms of Service.

Vehicle handling has almost become a more of a hassle than it is actually worth. The look speed while controlling a vehicle is unbearably sluggish, even on the highest mouse sensitivity settings. Controlling a vehicle with the mouse requires the constant lifting of the device to keep it from running off of the mouse pad. A task as simple as turning 90 degrees becomes almost impossible at higher vehicle speeds due to this configuration of the turning speed being so low. The challenge presented with even turning 180 degrees around is even more cumbersome.

It is rather sad to sit back and think about how the new feature of Tray & Play is not getting its popularity through the positive things it has to offer, but rather the problems with it. Many, many users have noticed a problem they had with getting to a certain point in the game before being asked to re-insert the disk, although it is already in. Players are able to play up to the level "Quarantine Zone". However, once they complete the level, they are asked to insert the original disk, then they are returned to the main menu. Sometimes the next level is unlocked, sometimes it has to be played over again, and sometimes they are thrown back to the level "Delta Halo". Tray & Play also creates an issue with the multiplayer experience. Sometimes there is a player in the lobby whose map will not load and the game will not proceed until they are forced to quit.

Two drawbacks to the multiplayer experience lie with the HUD. While they are rather minor annoyances, it does not change the overall importance of these issues. The first issue to make note of is that after a player's shields are drained, whether partially or completely, they do not recharge properly. The shields will charge while making the shield depletion noise, as if the player is being shot. The shield meter also does not deplete properly, as the entire meter turns white, rather than just the amount the shields had been depleted by. The second issue has to deal with the HUD text. On the Xbox, it is perfectly fine to have large "kill text" on the screen. Fortunately, with the viewing distance on PCs being reduced to a few feet rather than across the room, the need for large text is lost. It not only clutters up the screen, but sometimes it will not even register a kill. If, by chance, it does register a kill, usually the text will disappear too soon for the player to even see who they killed, or who they were killed by. If all of the multiplayer game information was condensed into the infrequently used text chat, very much like how Halo PC handled it, these would no longer be issues.


III. LIVE FREE OR DIE

The LIVE service has shown to be a wonderful service on the Xbox and Xbox 360 platforms, bringing buddy lists, VOIP, messaging services, cheat detection, and all kinds of other handy applications to make online gaming on the console hassle-free and easy. It is a shame that the same cannot be said for the Windows LIVE service. In the attempt to copy the usefulness of the Xbox's LIVE service, the service has done the exact opposite and made playing the game or hosting a server more of a hassle and an expense than it should be. The obvious problem is that the benefits that a LIVE account has to offer already exist on the PC in forms of external applications like XFire, TeamSpeak, and Valve's proprietary Steam application.

Ever since Halo 2 for Windows Vista was announced, the question of whether or not the game would utilize LIVE's features like on the Xbox was entertained. When it was finally announced that the game would use Games for Windows LIVE, any doubt to the previous question was lost, but new questions arose - how LIVE was going to go about Gold and Silver memberships. Not long after, the community's questions were put to an end at last with the final confirmation that the user's experience of the game would be controlled by the amount they can afford to pay yearly to Microsoft. "Benefits" of Gold memberships as opposed to Silver were outlined which led to the fanbase being disgusted by this outrage.

How are we benefited by a Gold membership, exactly? When asking this question, the thought should be in relation to what other online games for the PC do NOT offer. H2V offers Quickmatch, which ironically doesn't even match players together half of the time. Achievements are also a nice benefit to Gold members, though many argue that they are too easy to earn and aren't really anything to achieve. The LIVE service is used to an extent with these features, but this is where the list ends. Every other Gold feature is offered not by LIVE, but by the individual players offering their services.

The ability for a player to create a locally hosted game is hampered by forcing them to pay for a Gold membership. Map makers cannot test their own maps with other players without upgrading their membership or setting up a dedicated server, which requires having the hardware to do so as well. As locally hosted games are not able to be joined by Silver members, anyone who is asked to test the map but does not have a Gold membership is kept out of the game. Who is inconvenienced by this? Everyone is. It is not really the Silver member who is being hurt, but the Gold member hosting the game who cannot have players test their map because they do not have the membership to allow them to join.

Map auto-downloading is yet another feature which is limited to use by Gold members only. Why is it right for Microsoft to charge the players to use another person's services? It should be up to the server operator to choose who they want to limit their bandwidth to, not Microsoft. Also, hosting a dedicated server for testing a map is a joke in itself due to auto-download. Anyone with a Gold membership can simply join up and download the unreleased map if the VIP privacy options are not set.

Apparently the development of Games for Windows LIVE made the developers unaware that in the process of "opening new doors to online gaming", the overwhelming majority of the previously open doors had been closed.


IV. IF IT AIN'T BROKE...

...then break it. Server administrators always want to be in control of what happens on their server, quite rightly. PC games over the last ten years have allowed administrators to have one hundred percent control over games and server configuration from both in the game and outside the game. Remote control, often abbreviated to ‘rcon’, is perhaps the most crucial feature for a dedicated server to have. Someone's being a jerk by killing team members in the game, while using offensive language? The administrator can ban them via rcon. The server needs to be restarted following a new gametype being added? The administrator can restart the server via rcon. The administrator is in the game, and wishes to change the map? The administrator can use the in-game rcon console that is present in so many PC games to do so. There are many, many more useful reasons for an rcon in-game console to exist, and it is now seen as a prerequisite in PC games. So why has it been omitted from Halo 2 for Windows Vista?

Inevitably, dedicated servers will not always have an administrator present. If there is ever a problem when the administrator is not there, they want to know who was involved, what was said, what happened, and how it happened. The Halo 2 for Windows Vista dedicated server offers no such way of taking a look at the past. Server logs are an essential feature to have. It is just like having security cameras on a building's premises, but in the game. While they are not used all the time, when a situation arises which is in dire need of attention, the logs are the first things to be examined. Turning a blind eye to everything that happens in your server shows incompetence and negligence, and that is exactly what being without logs makes administrators. We wholly recommend that a logging feature should be implemented in the game.

The biggest headache server administrators face lies with keeping the server a clean, friendly, fun environment that everyone can enjoy. Occasionally, there is a player who feels that the only way they can make themselves happy is by making everyone else miserable. It is the administrator's duty to get rid of any problems, and the way to do this has always been through a kick or a ban. Peculiarly, Halo 2 for Windows Vista's dedicated server does not properly handle player banning. The only way to ban a player is to do so directly from the server console with their Gamertag. IP bans are useless unless the administrator actually has the players' IP addresses. Because the only practical way to ban a player is by their Gamertag, the "banned" player can easily join with another Gamertag and extract their revenge upon the party until they get their way. LIVE has the ability to ban players by CD key hashes, however they leave that ability out of the hands of the ones who truly need it - the server administrators. Banning players by MAC addresses is possibly the best way to keep a player banned, but unfortunately, it is only useful if the MAC address is known and if the game is being hosted on a LAN since it does not work over LIVE. The only solution to this issue is to lock down servers to Gold members only, but then there would be so few players that there would not even be any point in running a server, due to the low uptake of Gold accounts.

Dedicated server ban-lists are usually stored in places easily accessible by administrators for management and backing up, typically in the form of a text file located in the server's directory, as in Halo 1 PC. Halo 2 for Windows Vista's dedicated server stores entries in the Windows registry. Manually editing the list becomes a risky task. The task of bulk adding players to a list is nearly impossible for novice users without any knowledge of .reg files. Backing up and restoring the list becomes a mess of registry values. Backing up the list from a remote machine is not possible unless Remote Desktop access is granted with administrative privileges. Multiple server instances cannot have multiple assigned banlists, which is a disadvantage to hosting companies as a new user account is needed for each list. This is, as you should be able to see, most impractical.

Another inconvenience for hosting companies is the need for each individual instance of the dedicated server application to have a Halo 2 CD key. This means that a hosting company would be forced to buy a new copy of Halo 2 for Windows Vista for each dedicated server they host. As a result, the already high costs of hosting a dedicated server are pushed up, unnecessarily. It was explained that this was implemented to allow Microsoft to ‘ban’ servers. This also worries us, and we would like to see the reasons for a server being banned disclosed, for reference.

The lack of a password protection feature also came as a surprise to us. This feature is very basic and, like all of the points made above, has been present in almost every multiplayer PC game over the last decade. Password protection is essential if you wish to play a game with your friends and your friends only, especially if some players can’t join straight away. It is also useful in a dedicated server situation if the administrator wishes to restrict his/her server to members of a particular clan or community, or if a clan match is happening. Currently, if a clan match was taking place, non-members would be able to join the game and interrupt it. Obviously, this is very inconvenient.

Password protection would also be an easy solution to another problem, map auto-download. Although auto-download is a useful feature when it has been implemented correctly, the main problem is that anyone can currently download any map being played on any server. If a map is in beta and being tested by its developers, a random player can come along and download that map, even though it is not ready to be seen by casual players yet. With a password required before being able to download the map, the administrator would be able to prevent this from inconvenient situation from occurring.


V. WELL ENOUGH ALONE

It was unfortunate that we had to wait until the game was in our hands before we knew it was so drastically inadequate in relation to our needs and wants. The Halo Custom Edition community had grown learning that there was always more to map-making than just the level. It's true; with the assets provided, we were able to accomplish amazing things, the likes of which KPaul mentions at the end of this section. We were able to take things right from our imagination and put them into the game. This was what kept Halo Custom Edition so alive despite its solitude; the editing kit at the time encouraged more from the community. This aided in the formation of many mod teams, because they are the symbol of the idea that map-making more about more than the level itself.

Saying that we have little to work with is an understatement. Gone are the opportunities for creating what we imagine. Parting the artist from their paint is a sin in this case. The community has so many gifted individuals who yearn to express themselves in the way they want. By narrowing down the possibilities behind the editing kit, the range of roles in the community is also being narrowed down. It was said that, "The focus has always been to gear the tools and associated examples and tutorials towards the average player," but the average is the key word. Not the entire community is composed of the average. In fact, the problem lies in gauging the editing kit towards the average player. It's not the average player that will end up using the editing kit - it's the average community developer who will. These two averages are vastly different. By tailoring the editing kit towards this pointless average, this means that previous skilled specialists are now either forced to learn new skills and adapt, or find a new engine to work with. In the case of the mod team Evolution, they have moved to a different engine to get the support they seek. With them, they take potential players away from Halo 2 for Windows Vista.

There are still more hurdles. As users start to create their own levels, they will want to make it to the best of their ability. For the more advanced user, they will only be able to create it to the limits of the editing kit. However, there are issues in the editing kit that affect every user, no matter what their skill level is. We were promised a user-friendly editing kit. I'm guessing that doesn't include user-friendly documentation, tutorials, or resources. At various places throughout the tutorial, it references resources and locations that don't even exist. Among other mistakes, the biggest is allowing these to even reach the end-user in the first place; it's as if the tutorial wasn't even tested!

It is obvious that there is little to encourage a development community to grow, and thus little to keep the community and the end-users happy. It is this same disregard for the community that is seen in other aspects of the release. The unprofessionalism around this release is merely a reflection of the collective attitude towards the community and end-users.

"With Halo 2 Vista, the tools are available right out of the box. This means that they are both officially supported by Microsoft and will have gone through all the testing, localization, and usability scenarios that is required for a professional software release. As a result, not only will the tools be dramatically more user-friendly, they'll also be much more stable and polished."

So the preferred method of increasing stability and user-friendliness is though decreasing functionality? Is user-friendliness measured in how many confusing things you can remove? Are you still so sure about those "testing and usability scenarios?" Regarding removing features and functionality, there are far better ways to make it easier to use for the end-user. Take the Halo Custom Edition's Editing Kit for example; it was packed full of features and the tutorial (loaded with images!) was actually effective. The users with little experience could still follow the tutorial and create great maps without being confused by the available tag types. The more advanced users could come to the community for help, who had learned it themselves over time. It just takes a little more effort in that area.

"Once the custom community gets cracking we're sure we'll see some pretty awesome material. There'll be a bunch of maps that look beautiful but aren't too well-designed, there'll be maps that are well-designed but not very pretty and then there'll be the maps that strike the perfect balance and rise above the rest to become as much a staple of the Halo 2 Vista community as the maps that shipped with the game. With any luck." (KPaul)

It looks like our luck has run out. What was the purpose behind limited the functionality of the Map Editor? Did you want to limit map file size? Add a limit. Worried that the original maps would be outdone? That's just ridiculous. Worried it was too complicated for your "average user?" Most likely, but it ended up hurting the community more than it helped.


VI. DO NOT RESUSCITATE

Support is the number one thing that keeps any product alive, whether it be an operating system, a game, or a program. Without support, a product will eventually be left not purchased, collecting dust in store and distribution center stockrooms, because everyone hears about these problems that break functionality and can't be easily fixed. It's natural for support of a product to be dropped in due time, with newer versions of it obtained and used by a vast majority of people. Unfortunately, this is not the case for Halo 2 Vista. This game is in it's dawn of life, with many problems, bugs, and glitches that need to be addressed and repaired to keep it in working order. Nobody is purchasing it because they are hearing about problems with loading certain levels, shoddy performance, and the like. Many of these problems still exist, and yet word on the street is that continued support for this title will be dropped. Hearing this is reminiscent of when someone checks off the "Do Not Resuscitate" option on a hospital form when it seems keeping that person alive is too much trouble, even if a cure is very much possible.

Halo 2 has been a constant string of disappointment and problems since its Xbox release, and the Vista port answered the long-standing question of, "Could Halo 2 get any worse?" When it was announced by Bungie those many months ago, the thought of Halo 2 being all fixed up and shiny on the PC made the userbase giddy. However, that version of Halo 2 Vista never hit the store shelves; the only thing all the loyal fans were given was a botched port of a title they had beaten many, many times before on the Xbox. Lack of documentation and supplies, and the bugs of the Halo 2 Editing Kit made everyone who wanted to make a Halo 2 map cry. The incredibly cumbersome LIVE service made players and server administrators scratch their heads as doing tasks that are incredibly easy on any other game server are outrageously complicated and unnecessarily expensive in Halo 2. The true loyalists held strong, and waited patiently for fixes for these problems, since the fans were promised continuing support for the title. But, even these true fans would be let down severely...


jcap
Community Administrator
H2Vista.net

MereCatfish
Owner/Head Admin
customedition.org

Atty
Content Developer
Community Moderator
H2vista.net

Timo
Community Moderator
H2Vista.net

InnerGoat
Community Moderator
H2Vista.net

Zeph
Community Moderator
H2Vista.net

kornman00
Community Princess
Project Yelo Lead
H2Vista.net

Wave of Lag
Content Developer
Evolution Project Lead
H2Vista.net

p0lar_bear
Content Developer
H2Vista.net

SnaFuBAR
Content Developer
H2Vista.net

Kalubâ„¢
Community Member
H2Vista.net

Rosco
Community Member
H2Vista.net

Agamemnon582bc
Community Contributor
H2Vista.net

CtrlAltDestroy
Content Developer
H2Vista.net

PenGuin1362
Content Developer
H2Vista.net

Conscars
Content Developer
H2Vista.net

Lightning
Content Developer
H2Vista.net
xcustomedition.com

NeuroKoNeza
Content Developer
H2Vista.net
xcustomedition.com

rossmum
Content Developer
H2Vista.net
thereaperman.com

Reaper Man
Content Developer
H2Vista.net
thereaperman.com

Btd69
Content Developer
H2Vista.net

rapture
Microsoft Game Studios Core Tester
Owner halo2pc.org

I never thought this would be finished. A lot of stuff got chopped from being incomplete, but I think the basics are still driven home. For anyone wondering, this was started a few weeks after launch and has been through editing and cuts since then. That's why it said "it's been a month" in the beginning (before it was edited.)

where be my name on the list? :<

also:

kornman00
Community Princess <- :downs:
Project Yelo Lead
H2Vista.net

Awesome post, great ebayer, would do biz again, a+++++++++

Awesome, glad to see it done.

You can add me to that list.

Best post ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ã�4ÑØ â€*

You can add me to that list.

Best post ever.

---

Seconded. Now, if only it would make something happen... :(

Free LIVE won't (or possibly couldn't) happen, if multiplayer were to be free in every way, then GFWL isn't the service for that.

Other then that, I agree with the lot, Jcap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jcap

Lack of documentation and supplies, and the bugs of the Halo 2 Editing Kit made everyone who wanted to make a Halo 2 map cry.

---

Actually, not really. After I was sure that the glitches in creating my fact were in fact not my fault, I just dropped it an left. It was the shelf moment where the game designers lose you. You're not playing their game; you're not giving them a community base to continue selling their game; you're not giving them any reason to buy their new games.

My next 50$'s go to Valve, Epic, Gearbox, etc.

This letter is pretty well pointless... the game was screwed up... the majority moved on.

Unfortunately for the developers, the majority did move on. When people come in the store asking about the game I need to give my honest opinion, and the complete and utter disappointment leaves me to steer them away. There is no way I'm going to smear my own reputation (which ironically people have repetitively pointed me out on the street as the "fussy haired electronics guy" so they do know me by face... its a relatively small city.) as a salesperson when I myself was completely disappointed with the game.

Things I mentioned to be fixed:

1) Key binder not working... what's the point of having a key binder if you cannot rebind keys?
2) Stuttering play. I even mentioned explicitly what the problem with the stutter was and how a simple hack-fix (30FPS lock option) would virtually eliminate the problem. That problem was not fixed -- nor any other problem that I've seen apart from a Bungie asscrack.
3) Mouse acceleration being forced -- I realize you want to balance gamepad users -- but there's a reason why PC games are typically played with a mouse and keyboard: Because when people want to play with a gamepad -- they use a *console*.

The game had a lot of potential.

It did not live up to it.

Now what does anyone expect from future projects?

P.S. -- Bum Has Knife definitely is excluded from the entire rant -- he did a lot for the community -- unfortunately even the best salesperson cannot sell shit-in-a-tube as lipstick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ã�4ÑØ â€*

You can add me to that list.

---

Ditto that.

Active player, host, mapper on halo since halo1 came out on pc.

Add me to the list as well. I played it over at a friends house and I almost punched his monitor in.

You forgot me.

Flyboy
Comunity Fool
H2vista.net

well said, the only thing you might want to take out is in the end where you say halo 2 for xbox was also a disappointment... it really wasn't tbh... I don't think it was anyway, sure a few things I didn't like, but it was good.

Hearing about halo 2 vista, I'm just glad I waited, its such a shame that the people who don't own xbox's and bought vista and halo 2 vista were let down so horribly...

I think this game needs to be revisited, i don't care who does it but they need to just discontinue halo 2 for pc by the sounds of it, I mean, single player levels not loading? Thats ridiculous, I can understand some sloppiness or bugs that can't be fixed, but single player levels not loading, its like no consideration was taken into preserving the campaign when they ported it to pc if theres problems loading sp levels...

It sounds like Halo 2 Vista/pc needs a "re release" or an updated version to be released, people who bought the game already should be aloud to get a refund and receive the updated or re released version for no charge if possible...

Of course, its unlikely, in the end it would be a huge loss for them as a company to have to do something like that... it makes sense, but business wise it doesn't. They'll gain nothing from it most likely, unless more people do buy it if they do fix it right.

The thing is the games already gotten a bad rep, it'll be hard for them to do what you guys are saying and actually make a profit, in fact there more likely to lose money by investing in further development of the game :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Apoc4lypse

well said, the only thing you might want to take out is in the end where you say halo 2 for xbox was also a disappointment... it really wasn't tbh... I don't think it was anyway, sure a few things I didn't like, but it was good.

Hearing about halo 2 vista, I'm just glad I waited, its such a shame that the people who don't own xbox's and bought vista and halo 2 vista were let down so horribly...

I think this game needs to be revisited, i don't care who does it but they need to just discontinue halo 2 for pc by the sounds of it, I mean, single player levels not loading? Thats ridiculous, I can understand some sloppiness or bugs that can't be fixed, but single player levels not loading, its like no consideration was taken into preserving the campaign when they ported it to pc if theres problems loading sp levels...

It sounds like Halo 2 Vista/pc needs a "re release" or an updated version to be released, people who bought the game already should be aloud to get a refund and receive the updated or re released version for no charge if possible...

Of course, its unlikely, in the end it would be a huge loss for them as a company to have to do something like that... it makes sense, but business wise it doesn't. They'll gain nothing from it most likely, unless more people do buy it if they do fix it right.

The thing is the games already gotten a bad rep, it'll be hard for them to do what you guys are saying and actually make a profit, in fact there more likely to lose money by investing in further development of the game :(

---

IAWTP

For the people saying "add me to the list" and such, look at the front page news article.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeph

For the people saying "add me to the list" and such, look at the front page news article.

---

Sarcasam on my part.

And lets buy the halo3 port for pc too !! NOT

As far as the add me to the list thing goes, have everyone scan their signatures and send the petition with the letter.

Also, I agree, its like ordering a hot dog plain from a vender. Then they say: "But everyone else gets it with free relish, don't you want some?"
"yes!"
You get excited about your relish but instead of relish they just shit on your hot dog.

or something like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ã�4ÑØ â€*

You can add me to that list.

Best post ever.

---

Ditto.

It really is a shame what happened to this game.

/signed


I agree with all this, even if I don't own it yet.

I support this.
But no one cares =(.

Halo 3 is my new time occupier, although a fixed H2V might make me go back and play.

If anything, I hope it's a slap in the face... atleast in the general direction of whomever caused the problem.

Much agreement with the topic post, I was excited about Halo 2 Vista, but was shocked at how it was so deeply flawed.


I'm hoping to develop maps for Halo 3 whenever it's ported to PC (newer engine, newer technology and assets to get experience with), if it's disappointing like Halo 2 Vista, I will be very annoyed :beating:

Princess? Ima kill someone k?

I think if they had made the editing kit actually allow new assets into the game (besides world geometry specific assets) there would be a larger user base. But I blame that lack of support on LIVE and achievments and bungie

Of course Vista is a factor too, but I really don't care to go into that debate.


Also, if they did port it to the PC, Botolf, I doubt a editing kit would be included. And I highly doubt anyone will be cracking the rsa keys for even the xbox version anytime soon, so I continue to doubt regular joes will be doing any modding. But, at least now there aren't millions of rehashed modding apps out for the game, you have to actually KNOW what your doing to get anywhere now :iia:.

If Halo 3 PC doesn't have an editing kit, I will be the closest thing to depressed without actually being so :p

H3V, 2010: Believe? :party:

fucking right on guys.

that letter got to me. tbh. i have waited for years to see this game come to Life, to finally Continue hte Halo storyline on a PC, and of course the awesome community that Brought me to this site.
It's incredibly sad to have to resort to this, that we/ you where FORCED into this in Order to revive something we all cared for.

i dont think i could ever bring myself to buy this game now. I cant Support or even accept something like this.... This Game.
Add me to the list.

Bodzilla
Lost Would-be customer
H2Vista.net

I agree completely. Very nice letter there- you have my support.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Siliconmaster482

I agree completely. Very nice letter there- you have my support.

---

Took the words right out of my mouth, you have my support.

FlyingStone
Community Member
H2Vista.net

-F.S

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phopojijo

Bum Has Knife definitely is excluded from the entire rant -- he did a lot for the community -- unfortunately even the best salesperson cannot sell shit-in-a-tube as lipstick.

---

/am agree.


Also rofl.

Signed.
And I'll post this over at Halo on Windows Vista since Bum Has Knife still visits there from time to time...

Anisoptric Filter?

Anyway of course I agree with this and especially with the "If It Ain't Broke..." part.

Patrickssj6
Content Developer
H2Vista.net

Firstly, I agree with you. This game could be improved alot by a few simple things. To me, the game hasnt lived up to its hype, maybe because they didnt give us full details, so we just assumed what it would have.

Now, what do you really want to achieve with this post jcap? Awareness that we dont like this game? Hopefully it will, but then? A change of the game? The problem is in my eyes microsoft, yes I bash them a bit, but at the end of the day, microsoft helps me and bill gates is one of the most impressive sales men in the world. But any game changes, just like halo 1, need to go through microsoft first, I'm pretty sure the game makers (I cant remember who it was, but the bum a knife or whatever his name is works for them) they'd probably agree to unlocked kit, but then that idea has to go through microsoft, and getting some thing past there as we know from previous problems takes along time and will probably not work.

I totally agree with this.
I haven't given up hope YET.

beele
h2vista member
h2vista.net

add me if you dont mind?
i mean cmon! i really was hoping for CMT's mod to be moved onto halo 2 vista and play it with more features such as dualwielding and such
but nope! Microsoft had to take it all away

That was extremely well written. I truly hope the developers, minus bum has knife, take it to heart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Botolf

If Halo 3 PC doesn't have an editing kit, I will be the closest thing to depressed without actually being so :p

H3V, 2010: Believe? :party:

---

Halo 3 would be bound to the same kind of limitations as H2V. Windows Live is just a total bitch for modding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Botolf

If Halo 3 PC doesn't have an editing kit, I will be the closest thing to depressed without actually being so

---

IF, and it is a big IF, Halo 3 is brought to PC I sincerely doubt that there will be an editing kit or an SDK as PC people like to think of it, because from Bungie's perspective there is one: They call it forge.

Bungie is an Xbox game company, a successful one, and software for consoles has a different user model than the mouse/keyboard PC users. I could be wrong but I suspect that their break from MS will make it logistically more difficult for them to have access to the PC game design teams to port their games.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, and I have a thing or two to add:

I've been forced back to Halo CE for my mod, but due to the age of this engine, once my mod is done I'm going to move on. If H2V were fixed, I would gleefully jump onto that engine, but with no light yet visible at the end of the tunnel, it's looking like I'm going to be contributing to someone else's game, community, popularity, and ultimately profit.

My point being that this game is dying a quick but agonizing death, but if the developers were to address some of these issues in an automatic patch it could be saved, and people would, you know, buy it. It would be worth your while, H2V dev team, to fix this, because then in addition to possibly salvaging your reputation, you could salvage the user base and turn a profit.

Here, look at Halo CE. After many years it is still selling, because it has great tools for custom content. Custom content is the way games are going these days. Custom content is what people want. Custom content is what keeps a game like Halo CE going strong despite its increasingly obvious age.

As it is, I am abandoning Halo 2 Vista. Nothing would make me happier than an H2V patch to convince me to stick with it.
Or perhaps, like what was done for Halo for the PC, a free download of an unlocked editable version like Halo Custom Edition, complete with a good Editing Kit, that requires the key from your purchased version to run.
So, if this ever gets to the eyes of whoever would be in charge of the decision to save this potentially great game, please consider it, and if the answer is still no please at least tell us why, and if the answer to that is money, I'll understand. If that's the case, though, it really is a shame that you fucked up so much.



So, er, yeah, if this does become a petition, count me in.

-Rob Oplawar

I remembered months before the game's release, someone said that " if you're PC can handle vista, it should have no problem with the H2V". Oh I was such a fucking fool, believing that statement.

yea, halo 2 for windows vista is a piece of shit in a jewelery box
i heard the complaints, now i'm turning away.... (at best stay with hce)
there are other games out there anyways (*cough* battlefield 2142, bad company (coming soon), crysis, quake 4, bioshock... the list goes on and off topic)

if bungie/hired gun does decide to change their judgement with a new patch release (probably not) i might reconsider... (just glad i didnt waste $50 when the original was even better)

...this thread's name reminds me of a level's title: No Remorse

[edit]
i doubt halo 3 will make an appearance in the next 2 years (halo wars, maybe cos ensemble's Age of Empires series is pc rts) and if it does, i hope MS at least has the DECENCY to learn from this mistake

also, if custom content inteferes with live, why not make the custom-content levels unranked (like what EA does along with many other producers)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeph

Halo 3 would be bound to the same kind of limitations as H2V. Windows Live is just a total bitch for modding.

---

Well, here's to hoping somebody over at MGS decides to changes things up a bit by then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UXB

IF, and it is a big IF, Halo 3 is brought to PC I sincerely doubt that there will be an editing kit or an SDK as PC people like to think of it, because from Bungie's perspective there is one: They call it forge.

Bungie is an Xbox game company, a successful one, and software for consoles has a different user model than the mouse/keyboard PC users. I could be wrong but I suspect that their break from MS will make it logistically more difficult for them to have access to the PC game design teams to port their games.

---

I somehow doubt they'd be stupid enough to believe Forge would fill the void of dev tools :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Botolf

Well, here's to hoping somebody over at MGS decides to changes things up a bit by then.



I somehow doubt they'd be stupid enough to believe Forge would fill the void of dev tools :p

---

amen to the first stament
course i think that forge could be a nicer replacement to sapien, but no not a whole editing kit (and really if you look at it, when constructin levels in forge, all you're doing is repositioning and adding things... like sapien)


bungie branched off from MGS, but weren't they originally mac game devs, who's to say that they can't return to the world of pc game production (i mean if they did it once, they have the capabilities to do it again)

Ya, just saying they use the tools for years to build up the game, they know as well as any of us that Forge can't completely replace Sapien, let alone the entire set of tools :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Botolf

If Halo 3 PC doesn't have an editing kit, I will be the closest thing to depressed without actually being so :p

H3V, 2010: Believe? :party:

---

maybe you guys should add a petition to speed up the relase for halo 3 pc version. Obliviously going to be vista only so i wouldn't even bother asking for an XP version.
Just a thought.:rolleyes:

nah, it'll come out in 2 years with vieanna

Good to see this finally made it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 343guiltymc

I remembered months before the game's release, someone said that " if you're PC can handle vista, it should have no problem with the H2V". Oh I was such a fucking fool, believing that statement.

---

Low settings.

There was so much hope for an awesome game way before release, then it slowly shrivelled up until it's 'launch'.. I'd still like to know what bungie really think about this game, they've been so quiet..

Count me in..

Snaver
Mapper/Webmaster/Community Contributor
H2Vista.net - Halo.Snaver.net - Halomods.com

What Bungie thinks? Why, they think its Halo 2 of course! If you know what I mean.

Forge was a compromise. The Bungie Way.

I'm sure the developers for the port are MORE than aware of the problem...s. They were, are, there every step of the way. But do you think they have any room to talk? They're a Hired Gun. They're paid to do what they're told. You can't get angry with people doing their fucking job.

Also, petitions don't do shit, I hope you realize that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snaver

.. I'd still like to know what bungie really think about this game, they've been so quiet..

---

Bungie is doing the smartest thing they can do with H2V by being hushed about it all.

What I am really curious about is if Microsoft will break-even on the investment they have made in releasing H2 for the PC. I suppose a $49.99 USD it wouldn't surprise me if they did...just curious.

Jcap, I know this letter has been in the works for a while now, and knowing that MS has failed to do anything that they actually said they would do, leads me to believe this letter will probably fall on deaf ears. But you can throw my name into the mix. Like everyone else, I am sorely disappointed about the condition of the EK. The more I get to know it as I am working on my own map, the more I am getting frustrated with how it compares to the original HEK (un-hacked). Even the tutorials basically suck ass compared to the original and the original tuts can't really be considered comprehensive. There are so many holes and lack of continuity between what is said and what can be done.

The letter is... perfect... just about it really..
Good luck getting through though, I wish the best..

There isn't really anything else that could be said that isn't already inside that letter. It describes every aspect of the game in great detail. It is a well written letter and surely should get through. (hopefully they don't just ignore it because with this letter it could help save H2 vista.)

Good work on it!

FRO&#167;TER---wishing he was more known around this community

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeph

Low settings.

---

Not necessarily; my notebook can run Vista flawlessly (and most of my video games quite well), and yet even on lowest detail and lowest resolution, I can still barely play H2V. I get 15FPS if I'm lucky and I happen to be staring directly at a wall. As soon as a single enemy goes on my screen it drops to 5fps. A slideshow is NOT a video game. I mean, I can run FEAR Combat at 30FPS on medium settings!

Of course, my notebook isn't a major gaming system, but come ON! I should be able to run H2V on lowest settings at 30FPS or more, right?

Anyways, I agree with everything in that letter. I support this document.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kornman00

What Bungie thinks? Why, they think its Halo 2 of course! If you know what I mean.

Forge was a compromise. The Bungie Way.

I'm sure the developers for the port are MORE than aware of the problem...s. They were, are, there every step of the way. But do you think they have any room to talk? They're a Hired Gun. They're paid to do what they're told. You can't get angry with people doing their fucking job.

Also, petitions don't do shit, I hope you realize that.

---

I love u Korn.

But i still Choose to hope that my Part inth e petition Has some impact, relevance in Reviving a Game i have waited for since i first played Halo PC.

I'm realistic, but i still have my Hope.

H2V just gives me a solid picture of what the future of Halo would be like fully in the hands of microsoft with Bungie no longer in control. If bungie was in charge of the port (not having to developing it, but at least just made the decisions in it's development and taking responsibility for it), there is no way they would let their heart and soul (which they have sold) be torn apart by a sloppy release, virtually no support, and a torn apart and alienated fanbase/community.

The sad part is, I don't consider myself a pessimist, but I was predicting this all along, starting from the announcement of h2v. I was strongly hoping my expectations would be proven wrong, but at least I'm not let down as the game has come to meet my expectations.

The problem in my eyes that made the port so sloppy, was the fact that it took them so long after the xbox release to announce a port, then they really kind of rushed it out, it just seemed time flew by from the point they announced it, to the time I bought it.
The whole time thing was most likely due to Halo 3 already being announced but still, timing and patience = win or loss..

H2V makes me sad. So much that could've been, will never be. Tragically Gears of War for PC will also be using Windows Live...

But UT3 makes me happy. And their wide open editing kit makes me very very happy.

Please add my name to your letter of disappointment.

Add me up on the list.

Seriously, Hired Gun really skrew'd over Halo 2 for Vista, that's why I don't play it anymore.


It'd look like:

FlamingRain
Community Failure
Content Developer
H3T Lead

(hey, I like failing)

Yes, thats right, because we should be directly blaming the developers who were brought together by a larger entity to do the port...

I thought guns don't kill people?

The soldiers carrying the guns do. ;)

Id say if they havent already a huge ass update in their oven there isnt much of a chance h2v will drastically improve any time soon. (based on already stated arguments).
Maybe some sort of patch, wich cracks open some backdoors so some of the talented members of this board would be free to improve h2v is rather realistic.

I for one am glad H2V is Vista-only. It makes the decision not to purchase it that much easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kornman00

Also, petitions don't do shit, I hope you realize that.

---

True, they're not elected officials and most people already purchased.

Its still a nice "lots of people kinda fucking hate you" thing.

w/e I didn't buy it cause of the money for a new computer with Vista, having to use vista, having to use my gamertag or pay for a new one, and after everyones initial response, particularly to the editing kit.

Also, sigged Arteen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kornman00

I thought guns don't kill people?

---

Bullets do. :haw:

They could if someone choked on one.

If Microsoft is the gunner, Hired Gun is the gun, and Halo 2 Vista is the bullet, it's like they're unleashing a torrent of .50 AE on us hapless civilians. A true act of terrorism. http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-911.gif

You mispelled gauge.

Nice work, not angry, but informative.

+rep to people who signed.

EDIT: Instead of just posting this around, you should absolutely consider find the mailing address for the top dogs (Bungie, MGS (well, Hired Gun), GFWL etc. Another thing that would be effective is if everyone in the community printed the letter and flooded one well-chosen address.

Just my two-cents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stunt_man

Another thing that would be effective is if everyone in the community printed the letter and flooded one well-chosen address.

---

Good idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UXB

IF, and it is a big IF, Halo 3 is brought to PC I sincerely doubt that there will be an editing kit or an SDK as PC people like to think of it, because from Bungie's perspective there is one: They call it forge.

---

No, that would be the Sappien of the Halo 3 Editing kit, most likely. They'd probably unlock a bit more to make it more appropriate to custom map making. Bungie and more importantly Microsoft both know if they port Halo 3 to PC (or when, I should say, because we all know it is bound to happen) it has to include custom map options. They know that the Halo PC community and most other PC Gaming communities rely on custom content to keep a game alive and for most custom content possibilities are the only reason for purchasing most games.

Hopefully they both realize that H2v was a flop and build upon that, Halo 2 Xbox was a let down as was its PC counterpart, we can only hope that the improvement of Halo 3 Xbox is also seen in its port compared to H2.

Oh wow, so we finally got to publish this. Hooray. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atty

Hopefully they both realize that H2v was a flop and build upon that, Halo 2 Xbox was a let down as was its PC counterpart, we can only hope that the improvement of Halo 3 Xbox is also seen in its port compared to H2.

---

Microsoft sees the Halo franchise as an XBox title, and that's all there is to it. You know damn well that if they feel like porting it to shut the rabid fanboys up, they'll order yet another half-assed port, complete with the bloated LIVE system, and this time there won't be an editing kit map maker, because Forge is there; it fits the bill in their opinion of customization.

If they implement LIVE this time around, I hope to god that it won't be as restrictive as it was in Halo 2, and actually offer features worth the yearly fee, such as cross-platform play, and optimatch that actually works.

Q: Was Halo Ce in sight shortly after halo pc was released?

Im just trying to cultivate a tiny seedling of hope for a hypothetical h2ce you know. dont be too rude to my fragile plant nkay? :(

I think it came out ~ a year after but, H2V is already 'sort of ce' with the *cough* 'HEK' included.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arteen

I for one am glad H2V is Vista-only. It makes the decision not to purchase it that much easier.

---

why does everyone view vista as devil'sware. it's not a bad os at all, just disable the annoying ass UAC. it runs perfectly with a dual-core and 2gb ddr2 sdram (even if i have a shitty video card)

h2v did sux tho
and if the trend continues...
h3vieanna/windows 7 will sux ass

Yeah, after UAC is off, the OS is great =D.

I wish I could've contributed to the actual letter, especially during the discussion of the H2EK. As an audiophile, I pretty much got gangraped with disappointment when they disabled sound editing in the kit. When that's disabled, I'm useless.:gonk:

Shdwsnipa
Sound Monkey
H2Vista.net

I still think we should have ditched the section headers.

Hm, this got posted on HBO, but Louis Wu mentioned that when Halo PC came out there were many similar complaints. I came into the HCE scene a year after it got started, so I don't know, but it makes me the tiniest bit hopeful that maybe H2V will have a H2CE eventually. But as Vicky said, since H2V already has an "editing kit," they may or may not bother with that this time around.

Edit: I know! We should all bug Bungie until they just give us the tools they used for creating Halo 2. I mean, that's pretty much what the HEK was.
Hm, I can't figure out how much I'm joking. It would be awesome to be sure, but yeah, there's almost no chance that Bungie would actually do that, cause those tools were meant to be used internally and blah blah blah. Fail.

Well, Halo PC also had support...

Also, you're supposed to learn from prior mistakes. Nothing was learned here. We actually ended up getting a worse port than the one for Halo PC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob Oplawar

Hm, this got posted on HBO, but Louis Wu mentioned that when Halo PC came out there were many similar complaints. I came into the HCE scene a year after it got started, so I don't know, but it makes me the tiniest bit hopeful that maybe H2V will have a H2CE eventually. But as Vicky said, since H2V already has an "editing kit," they may or may not bother with that this time around.

Edit: I know! We should all bug Bungie until they just give us the tools they used for creating Halo 2. I mean, that's pretty much what the HEK was.
Hm, I can't figure out how much I'm joking. It would be awesome to be sure, but yeah, there's almost no chance that Bungie would actually do that, cause those tools were meant to be used internally and blah blah blah. Fail.

---

Most of the Halo PC problems came from drivers. ATI had some major problems around that time, but a few months later it was perfectly fine. In any reasonable review website, you can go read about it. H2V has some rediculous problems that cant be blamed on anything other than the port design. Can you list any design faults from HPC?

Atleast Gearbox did their homework.

When Stubbs came out, Wideload only had a select few cards that they supported. And guess the fuck what? Their goddamn publisher had setup the exe with some crap ass protection which detoured me from changing the list that said which cards were supported. And you know what? If your fucking card wasn't supported, the game wouldn't fucking load so you couldn't play it. Fuck you, at least give me some bullshit that the goddamn card isn't supported and to play at your own fucking risk...

But I guess the world america is so full of idiots these days that people won't listen. At least I could play the xbox and mac versions :-/

New day, new drama. Just move on and try next time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shdwsnipa

Yeah, after UAC is off, the OS is great =D.

---

Yeah and after building and building my map it won't load in sapien under vista anymore (not even with 20 services killed and no other apps running) but it does on xp, vista just looks better... that's it.

(oh and it runs h2v online too...)

The Halo 2 port was not a sequel to the Halo 1 port. It was a completely different port by completely different people, who probably will end up porting Halo 3, if it does get ported at all. They should learn from their mistakes, then.

Just because it was someone else who made the mistakes doesn't mean you shouldn't learn from them. What, are they gonna say "I knew HCE made those mistakes at first, but I haven't made those mistakes yet"? Or better, "I didn't know about Halo CE or the mistakes they made or what the fans love about it". Come on, either they knew and still screwed up in spite of that, or they didn't do the obvious research into the obvious candidate for a pre-made fanbase and went ahead and screwed up without doing the research.

OK, let's be fair, I've worked on a couple of big software projects now, and it's about as far from easy as it can get, especially if you're working to port code that someone else wrote. BUT: that's no excuse. These things are hard. This is the way it works. You can't release a shitty product and say "oh, but it would have been really hard to make it better" because then your competitors go release a brilliant product and say "it was really fucking hard but we, you know, worked on it."

edit: not saying they didn't work hard on this, I'm just saying that when you work hard and your product still sucks, you've got to either work harder or your product is going to suck, and no matter how hard you worked on it, it's open to fair criticism.

The only reason Halo 2 was ported to PC is because they needed a guinea pig for G4WL. They picked Halo 2 apparently in hopes that the smash-hit Xbox title would also attract more users to the Vista OS as well. After all, the subject of H2PC was hot for quite a while, and they needed something to help sell their OS besides a prettier interface and Office 2007.

It worked, until people found out just how bad H2V was.

Microsoft does not need a game to sell their OS. It sells it self since it comes with basically all new computers. I think Halo 2 was basically used as a guinea pig for Games for Windows Live and I hope they realize that this kind of tier system just wouldn't work. It works on the Xbox because it's either you have Gold or you cannot play online and there isn't much ways to finance the service on a console.

This is not the case with computers as you can easily make money PC through advertisements etc. The service can be really good but changes needs to be made. They can have a massive community of gamers with an ad based website. It needs to be free with maybe a fee just for cross platform play and and multiplayer achievements. Then you will see many developers using the service.

The next GWL title will be out soon and I cannot wait to see what they do with it. Hopefully htey learn from their mistakes but i wouldn't count on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deihmos

Microsoft does not need a game to sell their OS.

---

They don't need it now, though at Vista's launch they probably wanted all the support they could get.

All I know is that they ported Halo 2 for their own benefit. When it came to light that they fucked it up, and the game was broken, instead of fixing it, they decided it's time to move on, and hope that their next projects will work better.

I have noticed that once again because of Microsoft Halo 2 was ruined. Not entirely the same situation with H2X but still Halo 2 for Xbox could've been way better if bungie had more time. And now Halo 2 PC is messed up because Microsoft guinea pigged it as Deihmos has stated.

The question is, where do we go from here? It's a pity no one can make some unofficial patch for the game, like the way others did for other games which were previously effectively unplayable.

And hey, about the way Microsoft handles games, I'm just going to go ahead and quote Games for Windows: The Official Magazine (Previously known as Computer Gaming World), supposedly Microsoft's officially-sanctioned magazine for PC games: "I'm just gonna come out and say this: Microsoft sucks at handling first-party PC games." -- Ryan Scott, Reviews Editor, GFW: TOM.

I was basically to lazy to read it all, but I get your point

^ the above post should have been followed by a post saying "OMG WHAT A BUMP" or "NICE 2MONTH BUMP

^ the above post should have been followed by a post saying "OMG YOU CAN'T BUMP A STICKY" or "HOW ABOUT YOUR CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING USEFUL TO THE THREAD"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phobias

^ the above post should have been followed by a post saying "OMG WHAT A BUMP" or "NICE 2MONTH BUMP

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jcap

^ the above post should have been followed by a post saying "OMG YOU CAN'T BUMP A STICKY" or "HOW ABOUT YOUR CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING USEFUL TO THE THREAD"

---

What if I'm using "Linear - Newest First" display mode! Then what!

Anyhow, Hopefully the first GAME update will address a lot of the issues that we've been having. Hopefully HG can actually do something. And HOPEFULLY H2V doesn't go the way of HCE and get a lousy one entire update after launch.

Haven't you heard? They've stopped supporting Halo 2 Vista allready.

At least CE was based off of Halo 1.04 which was already patched several times, then we got one last patch to bring it up to 1.07. With H2V, we'll be lucky if we even get one real patch.

if it wasn't for halo 3 I would care more about developing for Halo 2 (Vista) :v

please, everyone here should have just written that $50 off in june like i did.... a hugely lacking game not worth being a coaster.

heres what you do... when microsoft gets around to porting Halo 3 in like 4 years, DON'T BUY IT! and for that matter any game that has "windows live" written at the top, don't buy it either.

sooner than later they will figure out that online multiplayer for PC games is and will always be free!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ragedriven

please, everyone here should have just written that $50 off in june like i did.... a hugely lacking game not worth being a coaster.

heres what you do... when microsoft gets around to porting Halo 3 in like 4 years, DON'T BUY IT! and for that matter any game that has "windows live" written at the top, don't buy it either.

sooner than later they will figure out that online multiplayer for PC games is and will always be free!

---

There wont be a Halo 3 ported over. H2V was only ported because Halo 1 did so well. Halo 2's port utterly failed, so there's pretty much no reason for them to want to port it.

It wasn't successful on microsofts behalf because of a bad business move on vista. Both Halo PC and H2v were half assed in their own ways, however people actually baught Halo PC for one simple reason.

They could play it without having to upgrade.

well i actually think h1pc was a great game, and i still play it from time to time. peak times (8-2 est) there are usually around 1,000-1,500 players online, lots of regulars... ive yet to see a multiplayer game match halo1 for control and fun... and with the new sightjacker for h1pc (imega.therevisited.com) its much much better cuz bots are easily spotted.

as opposed to h2v with at most 50 players. but, if everyone that actually bought h2v actually played it somewhat regularly thered be thousands. i'm guessing most ppl had a similar 2 day experience with h2v like i did.

I played the multi on it for maybe 2 days... my tolerance for the 'press x to delay' was short lived. thats all it took for me.

DO NOT BUY ANY WINDOWS LIVE GAME!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ragedriven

I played the multi on it for maybe 2 days... my tolerance for the 'press x to delay' was short lived. thats all it took for me.

---

Guess you were on the wrong server(s)... or before 'some servertool' existed...

Not all severs have that app though =/

And there are about 100+ (I was only able to count non-full servers) players...