Halo: Reach Discussion

[Limited]

Yes, so you mention the ODST guy, did you bitch and moan about ODST saying you couldnt take much damage back then?

You've clearly missed the point that Reach is showing the human race was extremely weak, and unprepared for the war with the Covenant.

The gameplay makes sense, your tactics do not.

[Donut]

why the fuck a melee is ever capable of killing you with even a little shield left is beyond me. didnt bungie say that melee damage wouldnt carry over from shields to health? wasnt that supposed to be the new thing?

[ejburke]

I'm with Arteen. Canon and thematic underpinnings have no place in a discussion about fun gameplay. Either the combat is as fun, more fun, or less fun than previous Halo games and right now I would have to circle the "less fun" option. Citing a story reason for the game being less fun is no help at all.

I still enjoy the game.

[Limited]

Define fun

But I do see where your coming from, if it is causing a big problem, a frustrating problem then its an issue. If however, its just because 'you think Noble Six should be more powerful' well, whos the game developer you or Bungie

Personally I've never had a problem with Elites punching me, yes it has happened to me and I have found you die quicker than in other games but to me its no biggie. What is more of an issue for me, is the they jump and bob around the screen like CRAZY. Too much so, in my opinion.
I agree with Donut, although I'm not 100% sure if Bungie meant both SP or MP, or just MP.

[ejburke]

I don't think of it in terms of Master Chief vs Noble 6 vs Rookie. I think of it in terms of me vs them. The game is less fun to me on Heroic (relative to other Halo games), because I feel like they took away many more combat options than they gave us. On Heroic, it used to be that if you knew what you were doing and played things perfectly, you could drop a whole room in a demonic blur of sniper shots, PP combos, grenade tosses, and melee attacks. It doesn't feel like that's there anymore. It feels more like a game of attrition on Heroic, which is what Legendary is supposed to be. You whittle down the enemy force and move on. They missed out on that super-efficient sweet spot.

[Warsaw]

I dunno...I found that having a shotgun and DMR/Needle Rifle allows me to do that whole demonic blur of dropping enemies pretty effectively. What I've found is that Halo 1 requires you to play smart period, where as Halo 2-Reach reward aggressive gameplay behaviour on any difficulty save Legendary. Even on Legendary, if you try and wait it out you will die in some stupid, trivial fashion where if you suck it up and bumrush at the right time, you'll come out victorious.

[ThePlague]

I've noticed on Legendary all I use, pretty much, is a PP DMR combo. DMR to take out jackals, grunts, etc, and a combo to kill elites extremely fast.

[DarkHalo003]

The bloom on the DMR really doesn't bother me at all. Sure, it is annoying if you fire it too fast, but they did tone it down from the absurd amount in the beta to something way more reasonable.

What pisses me off most is the bloom on the pistol. That in addition to the ridiculously stupid small clip size makes the weapon a last resort. I know it's a side arm, but there's no reason it should be that gimped. Congrats Bungie on making a weapon more useless than the plasma pistol. (Speaking of the plasma pistol, that is the one weapon which has had the biggest improvement, and is actually a GOOD weapon to use.)

I can agree with this to an extent. I think the bloom should definitely decrease from how fast the projectile error widens. I fire three consecutive shots and I'm already away from the headshot box. Regardless, I use that pistol like I use the Active Camo; use it when it's available and trade it off when needed.

Define fun
Personally I've never had a problem with Elites punching me, yes it has happened to me and I have found you die quicker than in other games but to me its no biggie. What is more of an issue for me, is the they jump and bob around the screen like CRAZY. Too much so, in my opinion.
I agree with Donut, although I'm not 100% sure if Bungie meant both SP or MP, or just MP.

The Elite Rangers are annoying as hell on legendary, especially with Focus Rifles. It's not that they're difficult to confront, but it's that they are there to kill just as you're about to escape or get a good snipe.

Bungie wanted the Elites to be a bit more powerful with melee in MP, but it's not a major issue in MP because the system is basically identical (you have like two bars of health gone after an Elite melee in MP I think, not sure atm though). I think it's to fit the Elite's already massive size, faster speed, and higher jump. Oh and it slightly balances the use of the Plasma Repeater in concurrence to the Assault Rifle; the Plasma Repeater does less damage to health in that sense.

[DarkHalo003]

Crap. I double posted. Ignore me.

[Arteen]

Yes, so you mention the ODST guy, did you bitch and moan about ODST saying you couldnt take much damage back then?

No, I did not. Yes, the ODST is noticably less durably than MC, and you no longer had recharging health, so I couldn't be quite as gung-ho in combat, but he still is relatively durable, and the enemies weren't as jumpy or prone to BS one-hit kills. My main issues with Reach Heroic are:

1) Essentially 1-hit melee kills from Elites and Brutes. I love to get in close to the enemies, but if they can just smack me once and I die, it's not much fun. Not a problem in Halo 1/3/ODST.

2) 1-hit kill FRGs, how fast they travel, and how aggressively Grunts shoot them. Plasma grenades could also do with a slightly longer timer, since they'll 1-hit kill you even when they don't stick you. Not a problem in Halo 1/2/3/ODST. Brute shots were pretty bad in ODST, but nothing like Reach FRGs.

3) Both of the above problems combined in Hunters. Not a problem in 3 or ODST, and not much of an issue in Halo 2. Halo 1's were jokes, of course.

4) Jumpy Elites. Isn't this why everyone hated Drones? Some occassional jumpiness is fine, but this is too much. We already have Skirmishers and Drones as the 'jumpy' enemies anyway.

5) Overall, Six's are slightly too weak, and Elites' shields are too strong, or at least the higher-level Elites are too frequent.

When talking about smart enemies being better, we have to keep in mind that if the enemies were truly smart, we'd stand no chance. How frustrating would Firefight be if every enemy charged you at once, running as fast as possible, shooting you as they run, instead of attacking you a few at a time? Or evaded every single time you tried to throw a grenade, or never stood still and raged? Or if both Hunters chased you and never let you hide in cover? Enemies have to be artifically dumb to be fun. Not that smart enemies are bad, but there has to be a balance.

And to elaborate on the Hunters: The Hunter's FRG also seems to have a lot of splash damage, and they seem to aim for the ground, instead of your body. They end up unapproachable if survival is top priority, and if you do risk getting in close, you're tempting fate. They have one swing in particular that almost always seems to hit. This is a major difference with Hunters in every other game. At the end of Tayiri Plaza, for example, I can jump in-between the two Hunters and partake in a 'dance of death'. It's super risky, but very doable, and I can still survive a mistake or two. Halo 2 Hunters did have 1-hit kill melees IIRC, but they were much easier to dodge, as were their FRGs, so it wasn't nearly as bad.