"Halo 4: I Get a Woman!" - Sgt. Mjr. A.J. Johnson, RIP

[Hotrod]

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with them discussing Halo and having a Halo-related debate (not argument) in a Halo 4 topic.

[Bobblehob]

You are probably right, Its more a case of seeing that there are new posts! Yay! maybe some new renders! Nope... people arguing about plot holes in the canon... Uggh xP If it were a debate that had some useful outcome I would be happier, but meh, Im just frustrated in general today.

[Kornman00]

If it ain't Wednesday, or the day of a special event (eg, E3, PAX, etc), then you should already know not to get your hopes up for anything new, even renders.

[Hotrod]

Well the Weekly Bulletin released today on Halo Waypoint, Bobblehob, so go check that out!

And here's a link https://halo.xbox.com/blogs/Headline...etin-7612.aspx

[Warsaw]

^Lol. Considering you often find plotholes in things pretty fast, I was wondering when you'd show up to post.


You should never compare Sci-Fi's when trying to find plotholes in one. It just doesn't make any sense. That's like comparing an FPS to a 3PS. Sure, they're both shooters, but they have a number of differences that you simply can't compare, not to mention the subject matter of both could be completely different. You should also reserve your opinions to opinionated subjects. Finding plotholes is not an opinionated subject.

1.) Yes, but Sabre's were experimental none-of-the-less. They were full-proofed by the time the Covenant attacked Reach and who's to say that the UNSC wasn't working on ships that could possibly utilize this same tech. Unfortunately, the Covenant showed up on Reach and caused that research to be buried. ONI probably had most of the data on those ships and the other tech involved, but it's apparent that AFTER THE FALL OF REACH they lacked the resources/time to create them. Keep in mind, Halo 2 happened half a year after Halo 1. Most giant technological advancements need 5 years to develop or adapt. Considering human starships in Halo still had crew members disappearing from slipspace jumps, slipspace jumps were often guestimations as to where the plotting would actually warp them in, and that slipspace jumps took months at a time to go from point A to B, I'd say something as revolutionary/design changing as integrating a physics and power altering energy shield would take more than several months.
2.) Their Fusion engines have been noted to be barely efficient for what's required to keep all systems running. The Improved-Fusion engines only existed on certain ships like the In Amber Clad and Pillar of Autumn. I'm also not certain where you're finding that human ships were superior power-wise to Covenant ships. Source?
3.) If they arrive on time at all. A battle starts now and the rest of the Fleet shows up a month later? Cool, thanks for the delayed entry man! By the way, 200,000 have just died because our technology sucks. OH WELL! The Covenant OWNED UNSC ships in space combat. It's been said so many times in this series.

Is that what your entire argument is about? Hell, just stop it then. I'm arguing in canon because it's where these arguments about plotholes take place. Whether or not the humanity in the Halo universe is shitty until 2500 is beside the point.

Sure you should compare. They provide good examples of how to make a coherent universe. I'm not telling you that Halo's canon sucks because humans aren't all wearing power armour and throwing miniature nukes around, or that it sucks because there is no secret society causing events in the galaxy to coalesce into some grand design. I'm simply saying it sucks because everything they do, they do for cool-factor and then they retroactively change the mechanics and/or plot in order to fit.

tl;dr: Bungie and 343i pulling a Lucas.

1. The main point about shields was that it started off small...which doesn't make sense because I'd think it more likely that the first generation to be these big, inefficient things that are totally unworkable at the infantry level but usable on a large scale. The development of the shields is backwards to me. That said, I'm flexible on the shields for the simple reason that there is nothing remotely believable about them except that they require a hefty power source.

2. Not what I read. If I recall, in First Strike Cortana made a note about how unrefined Covenant fusion reactors were compared to human designs. The implication is that we are better at it. What we are not as good at are slipspace navigation and sub-luminal locomotion. The Covenant have some crafty trick for sub-luminal motion and don't simply rely on magnetic bottles like humans do. Something to do with their grav-tech I believe. So yeah, the Covenant have huge inefficient reactors that have greater output due to sheer size rather than better engineering. In any event, Halo never explains how either side gets the energy from fusion into a usable form. No mention of steam turbines, thermocouples, etc. Only "reactor output." The whole "omg fusion" thing is almost a total gimmick for that reason.

3. I know they owned human ships in space combat. They were, however, total push-overs against those Super MACs, which could one-shot even the largest vessels. That was clear as day in Fall of Reach. The Covenant were getting their asses handed to them until the generators on the ground went offline. The result is a hole in the grid to be exploited.

You act like I haven't read my Halo fiction. I'm well aware of it. I'm just saying they need to reconstruct it from the ground up so that it works better with their themes. They don't have to throw everything out. They don't even have to be hardcore science fiction about it. Halo's problem is that it's a game first and an engaging world second. They let their games get in the way of a story instead of trying to get both to serve the needs of each other.

And before anybody says "aliens in purple body armour," not a single Covenant soldier wears purple body armour at any point in the series until Reach...why Zealots are purple now is beyond me.

[TeeKup]

I'm just throwing this out there, a Super Magnetic Accelerator Cannon platform launches a 3,000 ton ferric-tungsten slug at four-tenths the speed of light. A single round can obliterate a single ship, punch through and knock out another, and still cripple a third ship. If the mathematics are done correctly, even if a covenant capital ship COULD stop the shell, it would be vaporized from the sheer amount of thermodynamic energy released from impact.

Earth had 300 of these mother fuckers.

[Masterz1337]

You guys need new hobbies.

One of the CMT members is getting to play H4 (MP) tomorrow, if you guys have any questions I can forward them to him.

[DarkHalo003]

1. The main point about shields was that it started off small...which doesn't make sense because I'd think it more likely that the first generation to be these big, inefficient things that are totally unworkable at the infantry level but usable on a large scale. The development of the shields is backwards to me. That said, I'm flexible on the shields for the simple reason that there is nothing remotely believable about them except that they require a hefty power source.

2. Not what I read. If I recall, in First Strike Cortana made a note about how unrefined Covenant fusion reactors were compared to human designs. The implication is that we are better at it. What we are not as good at are slipspace navigation and sub-luminal locomotion. The Covenant have some crafty trick for sub-luminal motion and don't simply rely on magnetic bottles like humans do. Something to do with their grav-tech I believe. So yeah, the Covenant have huge inefficient reactors that have greater output due to sheer size rather than better engineering. In any event, Halo never explains how either side gets the energy from fusion into a usable form. No mention of steam turbines, thermocouples, etc. Only "reactor output." The whole "omg fusion" thing is almost a total gimmick for that reason.

3. I know they owned human ships in space combat. They were, however, total push-overs against those Super MACs, which could one-shot even the largest vessels. That was clear as day in Fall of Reach. The Covenant were getting their asses handed to them until the generators on the ground went offline. The result is a hole in the grid to be exploited.

You act like I haven't read my Halo fiction. I'm well aware of it. I'm just saying they need to reconstruct it from the ground up so that it works better with their themes. They don't have to throw everything out. They don't even have to be hardcore science fiction about it. Halo's problem is that it's a game first and an engaging world second. They let their games get in the way of a story instead of trying to get both to serve the needs of each other.

1.) The reason why humanity had energy shielding is because they stripped the technology over decades of fighting the Covenant Elites. That's the only way they obtained shield tech, so they had to start at the smaller levels to build up.

2.) No. Cortana stated that the Fusion Reactors of the Covenant were not optimized to where they could run at their full potential. For the Covenant, modifying or improving on that tech was heresy. She never said that Humanity's reactors were better, only that if Humanity had those reactors they'd be able to bring out their fullest potential. Covenant reactors aren't inefficient by any means, but rather they aren't optimized to their full potential, and the UNSC reactors are more efficient than the standard Covenant vessel only with the improved fusion reactor designs found late in the war.

3.) As true as this is, the Covenant did have those Sniper Capital ships that took down multiple platforms from a considerably safe distance, until the PoA destroyed it. But they weren't getting their asses handed to them. The fighting was simpyl on level ground and could be won by human ingenuity.

I'm not acting like you haven't read the canon. I'm acting like you're ignoring the canon out of an attempt to point out plotholes based on some concept that looking at it in comparison to other completely different Sci-Fi that are unrelated to Halo will give you supreme leverage in an argument about Halo canon. This is why Greg Bear can get away with his fuck-faced nonsense simply because people want more popular Sci-Fi elements in Halo. Stop fucking with our Halo damn it.

And before anybody says "aliens in purple body armour," not a single Covenant soldier wears purple body armour at any point in the series until Reach...why Zealots are purple now is beyond me.

Hate to burst your bubble, but:



Halo 2's specops Elites wore Violet/Purple armor and so did Halo 3's. Even if the color in Halo 3 can be disputed, it's easy to see the confusion in the coloring.

I'm just throwing this out there, a Super Magnetic Accelerator Cannon platform launches a 3,000 ton ferric-tungsten slug at four-tenths the speed of light. A single round can obliterate a single ship, punch through and knock out another, and still cripple a third ship. If the mathematics are done correctly, even if a covenant capital ship COULD stop the shell, it would be vaporized from the sheer amount of thermodynamic energy released from impact.

Earth had 300 of these mother fuckers.

Now the Battle of Earth is something I'm still trying to figure out. Not exactly sure how they fucked up there.

@Masters: That'd be awesome.

[nuttyyayap]

Now the Battle of Earth is something I'm still trying to figure out. Not exactly sure how they fucked up there.

Dramatic effect. Plain and simple. In a logical situation Regret's 15 ships would have been obliterated in the method stated in a previous post of mine.
However, if they sent the High Charity fleet...

[itszutak]

So here's an image for the H4 shotty



That's about it for today

edit: oh wait, also this thing

(H4 forge announcement)