Modacity.net: Texas Simulator

[rossmum]

just because it doesn't always work (which is, of course, true) that doesn't mean you can just saw aw shucks fuck it and kill the dude for what is essentially revenge

oh also the reason your jail system is overpopulated is, get this, because it is an industry and the companies that are contracted to run it rake money in hand over fist. therefore it is in the interest of those who run the prisons to make sure they are fully populated, so trying to avoid repeat offenders is actually a bad thing to them. american prisons are themselves criminal violations of international human rights law and are utterly despicable by any civilised standard, they have poor or no rehabilitation options, they are designed to either keep inmates in as long as possible or make them reoffend as soon as possible. add to this the fact that most of your country seems convinced prison is meant to be a harsh punishment and not a conscious effort to unfuck the person or at least figure out what went wrong with them and you have, surprise surprise, a prison system that is bursting at the seams both from overpopulation and fat fucking wads of cash.

but hey i guess it's easier to just murder people and pretend it's okay because they did it first (lol what kind of fucked up child logic is this shit) than to sort out the massive underlying problems that pervade not only the american prison system but american society in general, i mean shit who would've thought that a country with a huge income gap, terrible education system, and shitty quality of life for anyone below middle class would be full of crime? what a fucking shock, truly none could have forseen these dire circumstances

[TVTyrant]

Ross, saying that you never defended Britain doesn't refudiate my point. You live in a commonwealth country. I live in the US. It's about the same level of contact, especially since my ancestors fled to America in the 1920's from Ireland. Or my ancestors who came from Scotland at that same time. Or my Danish ancestors from the 1940's who were retreating from an advancing Nazi hoard. Or the Tuskarora who lived/live on their tiny reservation just south of Buffalo New York.

My point is that Britain was a socially backwards place for a long time, and in some ways is just as bad. At least America doesn't have cameras in its bathrooms. At the same time period when the people of Texas were lynching blacks, my ancestors were dying fighting the British for their freedom. But that's not backwards at all, is it? Stripping away the rights of people who are the same color as you?

My point wasn't about whether or not that happened. It did. My point was that 100 years ago was 100 years ago. The past is a different world. Your points about what is happening in modern times are a lot more poignant imo than what happened in the past. You should stick to that, because I believe it has a lot more staying power.

On the death penalty and prison: America's prison problems extend from it's terrible drug laws. I don't think any drug offense other than selling controlled substances (i.e. cocain, heroin, thinks that actually form a physical addiction and destroy your body) to minors should be a felony. As far as how our prisons work, it's all kinds of fucked up. Rehabilitation is fine and dandy, but I think there are some men you just can't reach. Those men should do hard labor until they die from it. We have lots of landfills in the U.S. with metal and plastic in them, and we need people to sort through them so can repair our country. Why not make those who have seemingly forfeited their rights to do it? As in, between times where you get an education and therapy, work so ball bustingly hard that you actually think about what you did. I don't see what's wrong with that.
As far as the death penalty, I don't know what to believe. There are some people who acts are so heinous that I have a hard time not labeling them as simply being sub-human. People like James Holmes and Ward Weaver. In a system where there is no death penalty, what do you do with them? Varg Vikernes spent 21 years in a Norwegian prison for double murder and burning churches, and he basically says he learned nothing from it other than that you can get away with whatever you want in Norway. It's hard not to react cruelly towards that kind of behavior.

[arbiter901]

On the death penalty and prison: America's prison problems extend from it's terrible drug laws. I don't think any drug offense other than selling controlled substances (i.e. cocain, heroin, thinks that actually form a physical addiction and destroy your body) to minors should be a felony. As far as how our prisons work, it's all kinds of fucked up. Rehabilitation is fine and dandy, but I think there are some men you just can't reach. Those men should do hard labor until they die from it. We have lots of landfills in the U.S. with metal and plastic in them, and we need people to sort through them so can repair our country. Why not make those who have seemingly forfeited their rights to do it? As in, between times where you get an education and therapy, work so ball bustingly hard that you actually think about what you did. I don't see what's wrong with that.
As far as the death penalty, I don't know what to believe. There are some people who acts are so heinous that I have a hard time not labeling them as simply being sub-human. People like James Holmes and Ward Weaver. In a system where there is no death penalty, what do you do with them? Varg Vikernes spent 21 years in a Norwegian prison for double murder and burning churches, and he basically says he learned nothing from it other than that you can get away with whatever you want in Norway. It's hard not to react cruelly towards that kind of behavior.

I couldn't agree more.

[PopeAK49]

american society in general, i mean shit who would've thought that a country with a huge income gap, terrible education system, and shitty quality of life for anyone below middle class would be full of crime? what a fucking shock, truly none could have forseen these dire circumstances

I wouldn't say that it applies to a majority of the country. It's more of people having a lack of help or lack of dedication when taking a direction in life. I have several friends that were under middle class status, but a few loans helped out; ultimately, leading towards a years worth of vocational training. With the training, they were able to make sufficient income to pay off their loans due to having a quality job.

Also, you don't have to be middle class to live a good quality of life. It's the fact that Americans can't seem to manage their money properly, such as the need for an xbox360, IPhone, uber computer, 60inch LED flat screen, etc. Having the ability to afford those shinny objects is not how a "Good Quality of life" should be achieved.

[Timo]

Guys this is probably one of the silliest things i've seen you argue about.

[PopeAK49]

Guys this is probably one of the silliest things i've seen you argue about.

Politics in general is silly.

[Warsaw]

NOES!

DarkHalo, we need to argue about sillier things or we'll lose our titles...

[DarkHalo003]

NOES!

DarkHalo, we need to argue about sillier things or we'll lose our titles...

Texans stole the land from Mexicans long ago! Bad arguments gogogo!

[Warsaw]

But...that's true and not silly at all...kind of like how the Europeans stole the land from the Native Americans, creating Mexicans and Texans in the first place.

[rossmum]

Ross, saying that you never defended Britain doesn't refudiate my point.

uh, yeah, it pretty much does.

You live in a commonwealth country. I live in the US. It's about the same level of contact, especially since my ancestors fled to America in the 1920's from Ireland. Or my ancestors who came from Scotland at that same time. Or my Danish ancestors from the 1940's who were retreating from an advancing Nazi hoard. Or the Tuskarora who lived/live on their tiny reservation just south of Buffalo New York.

i don't see what you're getting at. (the republic of) ireland is not part of the uk, northern ireland was plagued by problems like famine and warfare, and the nazis were pretty clearly an external force. most commonwealth nations (particularly the uk, canada, and australia) as well as several european nations have consistently been upwards of fifty years ahead of america when enacting serious social change for the better, like ending slavery or lynchings or the death penalty. america is backwards. there is no two ways around it, america lags behind the rest of the civilised world terribly in social issues and has done almost since its formation.

My point is that Britain was a socially backwards place for a long time, and in some ways is just as bad. At least America doesn't have cameras in its bathrooms. At the same time period when the people of Texas were lynching blacks, my ancestors were dying fighting the British for their freedom. But that's not backwards at all, is it? Stripping away the rights of people who are the same color as you?

britain was less backwards than the united states and still has been for the longest fucking time, i do not understand what part of this concept is so difficult to understand for you? in your country it was still legal to own another human being as property for more than fifty years after it was completely outlawed in most of europe and the british empire. in your country it took them until 19 fucking 60 to stop hanging people who were either black or who were white but supported the civil rights movement out of fucking trees, not the fucking kkk or some other group, but actual ordinary fucking townsfolk. in america it is still legal (and not even considered morally reprehensible) to kill people just because they committed a certain crime, which is objectively disgusting and viewed by the rest of the civilised world as a barbaric, almost caveman-like act (with good reason, being that it is exactly that).

you cannot argue with any fucking seriousness that america is not backwards. this isn't a game of "BUT BRITAIN DOES QUESTIONABLE STUFF TOO, OH LOOK AT THIS, CAMERAS IN BATHROOMS" (please point me to proof of this by the way), it is a game of "america still does things that the rest of the supposedly civilised world stopped doing on account of being shitty over half a century ago". i mean if you are really so blindly in love with your country that you think the fucking death penalty still being a thing can be downplayed, you have a disease called nationalism, not patriotism, and are a huge part of the problem yourself. if i lived somewhere where it was considered a good thing to kill people just because i don't like them and they did a bad thing i would never be able to live with myself.

My point wasn't about whether or not that happened. It did. My point was that 100 years ago was 100 years ago. The past is a different world. Your points about what is happening in modern times are a lot more poignant imo than what happened in the past. You should stick to that, because I believe it has a lot more staying power.

the reason i bring up the past is because it is clear from those instances that this is not a recent phenomenon, and america has been behind by about the same amount from the get-go and never caught up any.

On the death penalty and prison: America's prison problems extend from it's terrible drug laws. I don't think any drug offense other than selling controlled substances (i.e. cocain, heroin, thinks that actually form a physical addiction and destroy your body) to minors should be a felony. As far as how our prisons work, it's all kinds of fucked up.

yes, the war on drugs is colossal stupidity, i am glad we agree there

Rehabilitation is fine and dandy, but I think there are some men you just can't reach.

yes, there are a small number of them. very small. there is also the fact that rehabilitation is a constantly evolving and diversifying field, meaning that perhaps someone who couldn't be helped five or ten years ago can be now. it is not an exact science, but that doesn't make it any less critical to pursue.

Those men should do hard labor until they die from it. We have lots of landfills in the U.S. with metal and plastic in them, and we need people to sort through them so can repair our country. Why not make those who have seemingly forfeited their rights to do it? As in, between times where you get an education and therapy, work so ball bustingly hard that you actually think about what you did. I don't see what's wrong with that.

i am not sure hard labour is going to make their mental situation any better (probably worse), but hard labour is a bad thing because it basically amounts to slavery. it also takes away jobs that could be given to people who actually need them, because regardless of what people seem to think, there are people willing to do those jobs themselves.

As far as the death penalty, I don't know what to believe.

"it is inherently evil and wrong to consider taking another human's life, let alone doing it, and it does not solve a goddamn thing" is a good place to start

There are some people who acts are so heinous that I have a hard time not labeling them as simply being sub-human. People like James Holmes and Ward Weaver. In a system where there is no death penalty, what do you do with them? Varg Vikernes spent 21 years in a Norwegian prison for double murder and burning churches, and he basically says he learned nothing from it other than that you can get away with whatever you want in Norway. It's hard not to react cruelly towards that kind of behavior.

maybe for a nation that seems utterly unconcerned with human life in every arena that is hard, but there is absolutely nothing to gain from it and it is more expensive to kill them than to keep them locked up for life anyway so welp there's your obvious solution to the problem right there i guess! i mean if you unfuck the prison system you should have tons of space, right? just how common do you think those kinds of people are?

also, having a mental health system worth a damn and instilling a sense of responsibility into people rather than having them fucking ignore their neighbour turning increasingly into a fruitcake because it's "not their business" would probably help too i imagine

I wouldn't say that it applies to a majority of the country. It's more of people having a lack of help or lack of dedication when taking a direction in life. I have several friends that were under middle class status, but a few loans helped out; ultimately, leading towards a years worth of vocational training. With the training, they were able to make sufficient income to pay off their loans due to having a quality job.

right, but without a good education where are you supposed to get any sense of direction or motivation from? a shitty environment coupled with lack of education is what does the lower classes in, even here (although far less noticeably since the bare minimum level of education is far, far higher).

all the countries with the worst crime rates? poor education systems, cities with whole areas that are essentially slums, often really stupid and shitty laws and policing too. it's not much of a shock places like detroit or the shittier parts of la are a hotbed of crime, i can't imagine there being much else for anyone to do there.

Also, you don't have to be middle class to live a good quality of life. It's the fact that Americans can't seem to manage their money properly, such as the need for an xbox360, IPhone, uber computer, 60inch LED flat screen, etc. Having the ability to afford those shinny objects is not how a "Good Quality of life" should be achieved.

i agree, but often these people can't even afford what they need - and if they can, they are so fucking affected by advertising (explicitly directed at poor people on a pretty regular basis, because they are generally less educated and therefore less capable of seeing when they are being taken advantage of) that they blow the money on stupid shit they don't need. this is not so much their fault as the fault of a stupid, broken, shitty system where companies can fuck with peoples' heads until they bend to their will. the power of advertising to control people is fucking ridiculous and it ought to be banned, of course this will never happen as long as western nations are in bed with big business and filled with enough conservative morons to scream about GOT-DAMN COMMUNISTS every time the government attempts to make anything approaching progress.