If I Were A Halo 2 Vista Developer

[jngrow]

Always stings a little bit, especially when you know exactly how much effort actually went into making this port BUT I can definitely understand your frustration when looking at things from the outside.

In an effort to stay on topic, would you post the install symptoms you're describing in a new thread. Also, the Games for Windows - LIVE team has made a lot of headway in helping people get issues sorted out getting onto LIVE, so I can point you to some threads if needed.

Thanks.

I honestly saw all the effort that went into this. It's very nice when I can get it to run. But something, something really odd, had to have happened when you guys ported this, it just doesn't make sense. Also, are they ANY known fixes that help/people have tried? I can't figure anything out, the game crashes after 2 minutes, (not in game, just menu, I can't go in-game).

And one more question: Why did Bungie abruptly stop posting updates about Vista? I mean, they didn't even announce that it was released! They posted a nice H2V update ever other update, then they just stopped.

[Leiukemia]

While I do agree on the terms that I'm a nice guy that it'd be cool if everyone laid off on them a bit, I don't like your approach Nick. You don't ask, you give orders. This is a public forum, and while I don't think direct insults towards the H2V team members are acceptable, I get a faint sense of oppression for peoples opinions here. If they aren't happy, too bad, it's their freedom not to be happy.

Also, you sound as if the game was something they did for free, as a present for all us gamers. Sorry, no. They work hard, and they get paid for it. If they didn't do it, somebody else would. If you didn't want to have to work so hard and endlessly at the game, then you wouldn't have to. Guess what, there are other jobs out there. Can't take the heat of the public? Get a job where you don't have to deal with people not being happy with your product. Did you honestly expect every last person to be happy with it? If you did, then you need a serious reality check. I expect the obvious arguement: "well, they worked hard, and probably stayed up late stressed out and working." Again, can't take the heat? Don't do it.

Anyways, that's just my two cents. I in no way dislike the H2V team or even have a backed up opinion because I haven't even bought the game. I just wanted to point out some things I was unhappy with in your post Nick. I do think it would be nice for the insults and whining to stop, but I just can't help but to sense oppression when you want to disallow people to convey their opinions. Have a nice day.

[Dr Nick]

Pay attention, he is suggesting people follow them.

Beginning of third paragraph:

" Instead, I am here to make some suggestions."

[Mr Buckshot]

I agree with you, Nic.

I'm sick of all the people who flame Windows Vista itself just because H2V is Vista exclusive (bear in mind that many people have yet to know about the XP hack). Dark Sektor is one of them. Those people don't even own Vista.

However, I feel that my personal criticisms about H2V are not too unjust. I'm fine with the fact that H2V has minimal visual upgrades - many console-to-PC ports are guilty of that. However, minimal visual upgrades should mean lower system requirements. For example, GTA San Andreas for the PC doesn't take much advantage of PC hardware, yet a Radeon 9250 can run it at 800x600 on high with over 30 fps.

My main problem with H2V is that it is too demanding for a game that has no impressive technical features to show. Zeph explained to us why getting crazy FPS numbers is difficulty for a game that was coded to run on the Xbox.

Even then, if I run at 1680x1050 on highest on a Geforce 7600 GT, I get single digit frames - totally unacceptable considering the game doesn't look good at that setting. Hired Gun could've just locked the game engine at 30 fps (the way the old Doom 3 was locked at 60 fps - even if the FRAPS counter showed higher, the game was still at 60). By rights, my computer should get at least 30 fps at 1920x1200 on maximum (although I don't have a 1920x1200 monitor).

Many console-to-PC ports that I've played (GTA, MGS2 Substance) have shown that the developers didn't take advantage of the more powerful PC hardware. That's fine with me - at least I can run the games at the highest of the highest settings with high framerates. Why H2V doesn't fall into this category is beyond my understanding.

As for Games for Windows LIVE, I don't really care about it, although I despise the fact that it has to be tied into the game. What happened to the good old simple days of PC multiplayer gaming? IMO, this attempt to bring XBL to the PC will be ill-fated unless a superb cross-platform-play game comes out.

Bottom line: I can't blame Bungie or Microsoft for the port. I actually respect Bungie - the game in H2V is still damn good after 2.5 years. It's just the way it's been brought to the PC - I blame Hired Gun but I can't make them do anything about it.

[Kornman00]

Why you blaming the people who had to listen to the Jolly Green Giant and Little Boy Blue

[kenney001]

Now its my turn to state my honest opinion about the game.

The game itself kicks-ass, when you get it to run. Im running on a "higher end" setup (AMD 3800 x2, Radeon x1950pro, 2gig ram) and I have no problems or low FPS other than certain spots in campagin where its obviously loading something, and when there is ping lag, but most is very minimal, and i am able to run at ful settings. I am also pleased with the controlls, it seems like they fine-tuned them very well to be balanced.

There are 3 MAJOR flaws with this game though, that keep it from being a bit hit.

1. This game was vista only. I can understand Xp is out-of date, and all the new features of Vista and on and on, so not anything that should have been avoided (except maybe some unsupported patch for XP?). This one is understandable....not much ahrm done (except sales)
2. This game uses Windows Live...I cannot begin to describe my hatred for this intrusion into the PC world. Live can stay on xbox. I am a die-hard PC fanatic, and this was like being run over by a dump-truck. I refuse to pay for any multiplayer on a PC when I am already paying $50 for the game and $30 p/m for internet access.HOWEVER I would have no problem with this if silver accounts could join/create any internet server. I don't care about matchmaking, quick games, acheivments, or any of that. When I play multiplayer (Im sure alot of you agree) you just play it for the game.
   But now that they have limited the silver to basically nothing, It really upsets alot of people and therefore upsets sales. As soon as my 30 days is over, I plan on switching back to BF2 and Halo 1, and not reccomending this game to my friends, not until they allow game full internet server creation/joining in silver.
3. The editing kit: when I first heard H2v was comming to pc with an editing kit, i freaked. I love the halo series, but I do not own an xbox. I also love to make new levels/weapons/vehicles etc and throw my own personallity into it. I even made a whole level, and some pretty awsome weapons for its release. I finally got my hands on it and I was devistated with the EK. Its not BSP's that made Haloce what it was, it was the freedom to do anything. Now that It is restricted, halo 2 vista just lost ALOT of popularity. I can understand there were probably some REALLY good reasons for this, but I felt I was slapped in the face. I would personally die to see a release of an H2EK and H2CE just like halo 1, with everything unlocked, but have achievments and all disabled.
   Until that day, Halo 2 for Windows was a big dissapointment to this whole H2V community.

Now i understand many reasons for these issues, but Come-on people some things just cant be this way, not on a PC game in a community thats starving to create new and exciting things in an updated engine.

[Mr Buckshot]

Here's a very insulting flaw:

When Bungie first announced the port, they also talked about how they really wanted to support user-created content out of the box. Guess what, the game released, totally went against what Bungie promised.

I think the Games for Windows LIVE isn't too bad, but it's just too limited and stuff. Microsoft obviously has yet to know about what PC gaming is really like (their profits mostly come from Xbox/Xbox 360 titles). If Silver had everything including cross-platform play, it would be a good idea. Just limit the rudimentary shit like Achievements to Gold and LIVE will be the next big thing.

If a decent game doesn't come out for GFWL, then the service is ill-fated.

Whether Microsoft fixes GFWL or not depends on whether they will listen to the criticisms from professionals (meaning game developers and high-profile magazine reviewers)

[kenney001]

I completly agree with Mr buckshot...about everything.

[Mr Buckshot]

True, I'm not saying that Microsoft should give up on GFWL - just that they need to do some reading on what PC gamers really do, and that they need to narrow the gap between silver and gold users.

Shadowrun has shown us that cross-platform gameplay can be done well, just that Shadowrun sucked (according to reviews that is). If Microsoft implements this feature into silver and also encourages as many developers as possible to use it, GFWL could be the next big thing. Although Microsoft can be rather incompetent at times, I'm sure they will understand criticisms (after all, the X360 can finally stand on its side and read burned music CDs!)

I agree with Kenney001 on everything...just that his view of GFWL is a bit too biased. You're right, in this stage, GFWL is complete and total shit, but Shadowrun has proved that certain things "can be done," and if newer games improve on that, GFWL can be great.

[Dr Nick]

If Microshaft actually did read what people cared about, there'd be a rule against preloaded content!

Seriously, I respect when someone contributes the general public, but I still think it's horrible work if it's horrible work

I think Hired Gun should've left Halo 2 to some other larger group of people. I mean, people from here have already thought of a way to let us play custom maps with different vehicles, bipeds, guns, etc...

"Just make Live accomplishments available only in the original maps!"