Halo: Reach Discussion

The LT and this dude, whom looks like Sgt Forge, appear to be the cut cheese of John. The LT bringing the Lone Wolf and strong silent type to the mix, while the Forge dude brings the (squad) leader aspects John had with his other Spartans (only seen outside the games really).

In this way they not only have very specific characters (even up to a leader type) but also the swiss army knife Spartan which gives the player the freedom to define how they think this LT battles.

In really is just ODST all over again, with some refinements, when analyzed

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Originally Posted by FRain

By class based I don't mean in the TF2 style where you can't pick up new weapons. I meant more as in starting weapon class based. Such as the sniper class will spawn with a sniper rifle and a battle rifle, but if you want to say "fuck it nevermind i didnt want that" but dont want to kill yourself, just pick up a different weapon.

Yeah, having a spartan NOT be able to pick up a weapon would be ridiculous.

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Everybody would just spawn with snipers or rockets since they control the flow of gameplay. Play Fiesta, you'll see what I mean.

I like the semi-retro way of having weapon pickups throughout the map. Waiting for shit to respawn is the only thing that pisses me off about it.

Yeah, now that I'm thinking about that it would be odd to spawn with other weapons.

However, the classes could still have different abilities.

Maybe the scout/runner has a faster speed, but a slower recharging shield and less health.

The Heavy (Jorge) could have a slower walking speed, but on assault maps has a slower bomb diffusal time. Higher shields, and more bullet deflection.

These are just ideas, of course I wouldn't actually use that, but I'm just trying to show what I mean by classes.

I also would like to see an onslaught/warfare based game mode. It would be interesting to see in Halo.

It would be interesting to see, but I doubt classes will happen, but i hope they add SOMETHING new that changes the way it's played. I'm kind of sick of the standard gameplay the past 3 Halo games have had. Halo 1's wasn't bad, thats not the point, but at some time you gotta try something new rather than pussing out and milking the cash cow.

If a class-based shooter is going to allow players to pickup other weapons (which really isn't a classed-based shooter in my books), then there aught to be repercussions for bucking the trend of your chosen class. MW2 failed at this by focusing their perks mainly on the player's global traits (speed, sprint, radar, stealth) instead of the guns they were supposed to be specializing in.

An example would be, if you spawn as a heavy-weapons class, then when you pick up a sniper rifle, it should do less damage and have worse accuracy. Know your place, and you will be a credit to your team. But if you're spawning simply for class-based perks (extra health, faster speed, etc), only to run off and grab another gun, you should expect to be worthless to your teammates.

Just my thoughts. If Reach is going to try to be class-based, they better do it in a fun, balanced, and logical way.

Another theory is that there are specific class loadouts already selected and you have to pick one, and there's a limit per team.

Alot like America's Army. At the beginning of each game, there was a loadout selection sheet, that already had a predefined number of classes per team (3 riflemen, 1 grenadier, two snipers, two medics)

You had to choose at the very beginning and it was always a rush to see what you would have left by the time everyone chose. However, it was even fun if you didn't get the class you wanted.

Rainbow was just a term I used to denote multicoloured suits.

Also, we heard they were Sparta-IIIs from a second hand source. Even if they are Spartan-IIIs, they were all equipped with SPI armour, which had a form of active camouflage anyways. All but two of the original S-IIIs were killed before Ghosts of Onyx, and that book takes place after Halo 2 anyways, which is long after Reach was glassed. Bungie's game world or not, it would be extremely sloppy for them to drop Spartan IIIs into Reach from a Halo-lore standpoint.

=|

Also, there were variants of the Mk. V, as mentioned in the Halo Encyclopedia (Security is one of them). I think what some of us are complaining about the chunky disproporionality in the trailer. It looks straight-up stupid and not at all conducive to the fluid, almost ninja-like movement that the Spartans are supposed to have. Even the Mk. IV as described in the book was sleeker than what we saw in the trailer.

Assuming class type action is seen in this version of the engine, I wonder what kinds of playlist configurations will theyl be able to pimp out. They would probably keep the class type definition separate from the game type (assuming class types are even configurable). Would mosdef be interesting for the matchmaking maintainers (Stosh I think?)

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Rainbow was just a term I used to denote multicoloured suits.

Also, we heard they were Sparta-IIIs from a second hand source. Even if they are Spartan-IIIs, they were all equipped with SPI armour, which had a form of active camouflage anyways. All but two of the original S-IIIs were killed before Ghosts of Onyx, and that book takes place after Halo 2 anyways, which is long after Reach was glassed. Bungie's game world or not, it would be extremely sloppy for them to drop Spartan IIIs into Reach from a Halo-lore standpoint.

=|

Also, there were variants of the Mk. V, as mentioned in the Halo Encyclopedia (Security is one of them). I think what some of us are complaining about the chunky disproporionality in the trailer. It looks straight-up stupid and not at all conducive to the fluid, almost ninja-like movement that the Spartans are supposed to have. Even the Mk. IV as described in the book was sleeker than what we saw in the trailer.

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You want to know who controls the canon of the series?

Bungie.

Doesn't mean that armour with retarded proportionality isn't stupid looking. :v:

no u <:maddowns:>

Well watching that trailer and seeing that image...RIP Halo canon, I knew ye well. (or so I thought)

Thankfully I can still play Halo 1 and read the books...plus I can grimace through Halo 2, 3, and ODST.

The notion that it's Bungie's game and they can fuck whatever part of the canon they want? Check, they sure can, but they're still fucking it.

If Lucas suddenly released a new movie that affirmed Darth Vader was actually Obi-Wan Kenobi's son and that Luke is actually Vader's cousin would be ridiculous. It would also become canon, and nobody would like it. Only reason Bungie can get away with it is that their games are now marketed for a new crowd, young players who don't give two shits about a game's story and instead like to shoot people while yelling at them over Live!.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Rainbow was just a term I used to denote multicoloured suits.

Also, we heard they were Sparta-IIIs from a second hand source. Even if they are Spartan-IIIs, they were all equipped with SPI armour, which had a form of active camouflage anyways.S-III's were suicide soldiers and basicly prototypes, they could have any combination, because their prototypes they could have been used for experimental armour.
If the SPI wasnt shown on the cover for ghosts of onyx no one would even be bitching about what a S-III looked like.
Most of all, no one notice how you can customise your armour in halo 3 MP? Gee i guess they just put that there for shitz and giggles and not be any part of canon.:downs:
All but two of the original S-IIIs were killed before Ghosts of Onyx, and that book takes place after Halo 2 anyways,Gee i wonder what killed them all...
which is long after Reach was glassed. Bungie's game world or not, it would be extremely sloppy for them to drop Spartan IIIs into Reach from a Halo-lore standpoint.
How exactly?

=|

Also, there were variants of the Mk. V, as mentioned in the Halo Encyclopedia (Security is one of them). I think what some of us are complaining about the chunky disproporionality in the trailer. Yes because this time the armour actualy looks like plates of armour not just extrusions from the rubber beneath it.:downs:
It looks straight-up stupid and not at all conducive to the fluid, almost ninja-like movement that the Spartans are supposed to have.Who said their no longer stealthy or powerful? they look more fearsome now than they did before, IE look at the halo 3 armour, it was basicly a cast of shwartzneggers chest painted green, carved chunks out and then said oh hey heres your chest plate.
Even the Mk. IV as described in the book was sleeker than what we saw in the trailer.

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I personaly think the new colour changes add's a new touch, it actualy enables you to distinguish different spartans from each other, besides the obvious amrour changes.
Spartan 320 looks like shes wearing a variation of the EVA armour to an extent, looking at the H3 MP armour and the reach trailer there are some obvious simularities, i just hope there isnt a hayabusha or RECON armour set.

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Originally Posted by FRain

You want to know who controls the canon of the series?

Bungie.

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That doesn't mean we can't point out apparent flaws or criticize things we don't like. What is it about criticizing people/things/ideas that has become such a stigma on this site recently? It's like for some reason we're not allowed to say anything negative about anything outside of The Studio.

We just had a fairly lengthy discussion about what does and doesn't constitute good fiction.

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Originally Posted by teh lag

"Good" science fiction (or any form of fiction to be honest) generally follows its own internal logic, regardless of whether or not said logic makes sense in "real life".

Ex: If in a sci-fi universe there are boats that can fly but only if they have enough assfuckium in their reactors, and then suddenly they can fly without assfuckium, it would be perfectly reasonable to call out that inconsistency.

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Sure, they can alter the story and we can't say "no this isn't the Halo story". We can call them out for being inconsistent though, and if we don't like what we see I think we should be able to say that.

Expect if these are suppose to be SIIIs we have no place to call them out...because we have nothing to base what a group of SIIIs were doing on Reach or what tech they may have been sporting while doing the thing that they are doing

because they do things. and they're go-doers.

AND IT'S A GAME

poland.

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

Looks like something very windy or powerful is happening in front of them (debris at their feet).

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Looks to me like someone was just sliding down the hill quickly :S

^ Look at the trees.

Not sure about this, but just so ya'll can see:

I love the loading screen, obvious its a reminiscent of Halo 1's.

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Originally Posted by Delta4907

Not sure about this, but just so ya'll can see:
*youtube
I love the loading screen, obvious its a reminiscent of Halo 1's.

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You mean Halo 1's and 2's loading screen? They were quite similar.

Kinda. In Halo 2's you could see the entire background, but in Halo 1's you could only see where the moving light was, like in this one.

Oh. Yea I haven't played Halo 2 in so long.*

Anyways yea cool loading screen bro.


*Cause it sucked

That's probably fake. The picture in the background of the main screen is a Halo 3 concept art, give me a few minutes to find it.

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Originally Posted by Delta4907

Not sure about this, but just so ya'll can see:

I love the loading screen, obvious its a reminiscent of Halo 1's.

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Seems legit, but with things like this, its like...why didnt they just show the damn gameplay?

I love the background, but iirc Reach had hidden Forerunner structures, nothing that obvious. Also, the music is cool, but far less important-sounding than the usual opening-menu-music. As for the loading screen, I also like that a lot, but it could have been easily faked using the official wallpaper. That being said, I can see Bungie using that same design somewhere in the UI.

The fact that there is no beta (text) spew on screen causes some :raise:s and the loading screen, while seemingly legit looking, is rather lacking in :aaaaa:ness. Then again, the camera + lighting just may be to blame for that.

e: Silicon: Reach had hidden Forerunner structures alright. You just had to dig to get at them ;)

And if it really truly was the beta, why is there only two options at the menu screen?

I'm sure there would be more especially by now.

E:

And I swear i've seen that concept art before.

Just noticed that this new Shockwave member uploaded the same video at an earlier date:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IBLeZYbPk8

I haven't been able to see a copy of the new Game Informer issue, but here are some points from a bungie forum post:

- We play as Spartan IIIs. Jorge is the only Spartan II on the team, and as a result is larger.
- Carter 259 and Kat 320 are the only members of their original squad.
- Jorge is a heavy weapons specialist.
- "Skully" now has a name, Emile 239. He's the silent type of the game.
- The sniper is called Jun 266. He's thoughtful and taciturn.
- We can customise the appearance of the Lone Wolf by a small degree. Awesome.
- The game is apparently darker than any of the other Halo games, even more so than ODST.
- Human Insurrectionists are possibly in the game
- Bungie have once again made the Covenant more dangerous and frightening, as they were in Halo 1.
- Covenant soldiers no longer speak English, they speak in their own languages.
- A new enemy like a Jackal has been introduced, named a "Skirmisher." They are deadly and cunning enemies that attack in packs, and flank secure positions.
- Graphics have been improved drastically, as proven by in-magazine comparisons.
- Elites are back, and are more ferocious than ever.
- Larger scale combat will be in Reach. Where only 20 AI at a time could be on screen in Halo 3, now over 40 AI and 20 vehicles can be present at a time.
- Scenes are more cinematic.
- Noble Team splits up at a point in the story, but it seems they soon get back together.
- Health Bar is back along with energy shield.
- Single shot rifle like the Halo 2 E3 demo is in the game, named the Designated Marksman Rifle (DRM)
- Sniper, AR and Magnum make a return. Gun sounds are more realistic.
- Needler Rifle is in the game, a mid-range headshot capable weapon.
- Spike Grenades and Flame Grenades are out. Only frags and plasma remain.
- Helicopter Transport is called the Falcon.
- Civillian vehicles are now drivable.
- Fully stealthy gameplay is now possible.
- Assassinations are possible with a knife by holding down the melee button.
- Sprinting is now possible through an equipment like mechanic.
- Spirits, the Covenant drop ship in CE, return in Reach, alongside Phantoms.
- Grunts look a lot more menacing.
- Motion Tracker seems compressed, like an oval rather than the Halo 3 circle.
- Hud is yellow rather than blue.
- Marines look vaguely like Halo 1 marines.
- Phantoms now have a flashlight, like the one seen in the ODST announcement trailer.
- Elites seem taller, and are no longer hunched.
- All features from Halo 3 (Forge, Theatre, Co-op) make a comeback along with several new ones.
- We will be shown what Reach looks like before it is destroyed. We will see the levels of destruction progress as we get further through the game, implying the game takes place over a longish period of time.

I was going to post those too but I thought posting scans\photographs of magizines was against the rules (and law).

Ugh, looks like a shitty Halo 3 engine mod filled with all the horrible ideas the author could think of. Nothing about it feels even remotely 'Halo-like'. Rainbow Spartans, woo. Needle rifle that looks like a poorly edited Beam Rifle, woo.

I spy something from Halo 1 :iamafag:

It was pretty obvious that the spirit was going to be in the game. It was on the game informer cover art. The only thing I don't like is the elite. It just doesn't look like the aggressive warrior that they keep saying its supposed to be.

I like the fact theyre bringing health packs back

I like the fact that you can sprint.

Also:

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Animation features a smilar level of advancement. For the first time, Bungie has implemented motion capture. A majority of cinematic sequences are based on captured actions. Onscreen characters exhibit an animation technique called variable gait blending. Simply put, it means that as a character changes speed, the animation of walking blends seamlessly into running, which likewise, blends into sprinting. When turning on a pivot, players no longer appear to stand still and simply turn in a circle. In Halo Reach, they move realistically as they pivot, lifting their feet and moving their bodies in reaction. For facial work, Bungie enlisted the aid of Image Metrics, a company some gamers may recall....With their aid, human faces now appear dramatically more lifelike than in previous Halo games.

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I find that everything there looks amazingly awesome, especially the Skirmishers. I've been waiting a long time to get something new in the enemies. Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not too fond of that single-shot sniper rifle there...

Arent all sniper rifles single shot?
Unless you mean in visual looks, it looks ok, I guess.

I think he means that Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR). It's not actually sniper rifle, but you probably know that.

Reach fell in only a few days. I wouldn't really call that a longish period of time. Sounds about the same length of time like any other Halo <#> game.

Glad to finally see an official word on them beeing SIIIs (save for Jorge) and that this isn't FoR: The Game. Should keep a few more story whores mouths shut.

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Originally Posted by Pooky

Ugh, looks like a shitty Halo 3 engine mod filled with all the horrible ideas the author could think of. Nothing about it feels even remotely 'Halo-like'. Rainbow Spartans, woo. Needle rifle that looks like a poorly edited Beam Rifle, woo.

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*sigh*

says the guy referencing shotty cam shots of a magazine of a game still in the making.

Also, Spirit dropships + Phantom dropships in one game = most amazing thing of life :)

You guys are gay, I like everything in those pictures!

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Originally Posted by Advancebo

Also:

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AWESOME

A bit underwhelmed, myself. I mean, I guess it will end up being a fun campaign experience, but I hope these aren't the only feature changes. I also think having an equipment for sprinting might be just a little too tacky.

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

Reach fell in only a few days. I wouldn't really call that a longish period of time. Sounds about the same length of time like any other Halo <#> game.

Glad to finally see an official word on them beeing SIIIs (save for Jorge) and that this isn't FoR: The Game. Should keep a few more story whores mouths shut.

*sigh*

says the guy referencing shotty cam shots of a magazine of a game still in the making.

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Uhh you can still see a multitude of things that totally break previous canon. Face the facts KM, the Bungie that made the Halo we remember is dead. Stop sucking their dicks so much. :raise:

I don't think anyone expects a literal Halo 1 carryover on a new engine and set on Reach...but comon, how can you SERIOUSLY be defending Bungie on this latest crap?

Consistency is all I'm asking for and, previous to Halo Wars, we had a pretty consistent set of canon and rules concerning Halo.

Doesnt make sense how the S3's can be 20+ years old.

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Originally Posted by Advancebo

Doesnt make sense how the S3's can be 20+ years old.

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knows only a little about the canon here, but why not?

It does make sense. At least, for the LT. Apparently he\she survived OPERATION: TORPEDO, which was when the UNSC sent 300 Spartan-III's to Pegasi Delta, in 2545. The Battle of Reach occurs in 2552, so say the LT was 15 during the operation, and did infact survive, that would make him 22 at the time of the Battle of Reach. I can't say the same about the other four because we don't know anything about their origins.

Knife-attacks seem too COD-ish. I felt instant-kill melees from behind were good enough. Elite looks cartoony; could just be the lighting or something. Also, the Needler-rifle looks retarded, and sounds redundant compared to the carbine; probably explains why the Covenant would stop using them.

I don't like the new elites shown in GI, they look very low-res (like H1).
I'm still confused on if equipment is still in or if its been replaced by armor abilities.

Equipment is out, armor abilities are in. Which is a bit better since you can keep on using theme. Though its odd how one of the abilities is "sprinting".

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Originally Posted by Advancebo

Though its odd how one of the abilities is "sprinting".

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I'm pretty sure you're constantly running in the games, so I've never really felt the need to go faster. Probably just an experiment to see how fans take it, trying to blur the lines between Halo and CoD.

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Originally Posted by =sw=warlord

words

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All the Spartan III groups died in big operations not on Reach. A Covenant refueling depot in 2545 killed all of the second group. The third group was still on Onyx when it disintegrated, and that takes place in late 2552 or early 2553. There is no space in there for Spartan-IIIs to be on Reach. Period. Either they retcon something or these are Spartan-IIs that we don't know about (and there were plenty). If it's the former, that makes it sloppy, and that's what some of us are complaining about. That and the shitty-looking armour (and weapons, and vehicles). It's not the colours so much as the proportions...again.

Actually, you should just stop because just about every post involving Halo-lore you have ever made has either been wrong through lack of sufficient information or deduced by faulty logic. Quit while you are ahead. Go read the books and inform yourself (again if you already have). :downs:

On to other things: does that magazine say what generation of Spartan they are? Judging by the numbers, I'm inclined to say III (sloppy Bungie, real sloppy), but you never know.

Never mind. We are Spartan-IIIs...again, I say shame on you Bungie.

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Originally Posted by Good_Apollo

Uhh you can still see a multitude of things that totally break previous canon. Face the facts KM, the Bungie that made the Halo we remember is dead. Stop sucking their dicks so much. :raise:

I don't think anyone expects a literal Halo 1 carryover on a new engine and set on Reach...but comon, how can you SERIOUSLY be defending Bungie on this latest crap?

Consistency is all I'm asking for and, previous to Halo Wars, we had a pretty consistent set of canon and rules concerning Halo.

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Who gives a crap? Fun game and story > staying consistent with every detail from a vague, tangentially-related book? All of Nylund's books have contradictions or stupid plot-points best left ignored.

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

*sigh*

says the guy referencing shotty cam shots of a magazine of a game still in the making.

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Oh I'm sorry, was there something else I was supposed to reference? Do you really think that if I viewed those garbage designs in a slightly higher resolution that they would suddenly endear themselves to me? The game might be still in the making, but things like this are what people are going to base their first impressions on. I'm not impressed.

I think he's saying it's best not to reference anything yet until we have something more conclusive; it's not the time for meaningful first impressions.

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Originally Posted by Arteen

Who gives a crap? Fun game and story > staying consistent with every detail from a vague, tangentially-related book? All of Nylund's books have contradictions or stupid plot-points best left ignored.

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People who care about the universe's art and design will give a crap? There's no doubt that all of the Halo games released to date have been pretty fun games, however, that still leaves plenty of room for complaints on how Bungie is sloppily handling their own story everytime they decide to release new content, completely fucking their last 'canon' content.

If only this happened to you guys in a medium you might care about: Lost, Star Trek, or Battlestar Galactica...whatever, you'd all be crying.

Can someone summarize what's so inconsistent in canon? I'm not sure what you're all going on about because I can hardly remember anything from the books.

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Originally Posted by thehoodedsmack

I'm pretty sure you're constantly running in the games, so I've never really felt the need to go faster.

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You don't know constantly running until you've played Quake or Unreal :haw:

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Originally Posted by Delta4907

It does make sense. At least, for the LT. Apparently he\she survived OPERATION: TORPEDO, which was when the UNSC sent 300 Spartan-III's to Pegasi Delta, in 2545. The Battle of Reach occurs in 2552, so say the LT was 15 during the operation, and did infact survive, that would make him 22 at the time of the Battle of Reach. I can't say the same about the other four because we don't know anything about their origins.

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The only Survivors were Lucy and Tom. Both are locked inside the Onyx Dyson Sphere.

I'm sorry, the books may have their own flaws and contradictions, but this is crap. It may be generally easier for the audience to identify what spartan is what with their unique armor, but it doesn't change the fact that they're ugly as hell. I would have even been fine with them using Mark V armor variants like they did with the Mark VI armor variants. Not completely new and different suits.

I don't know why they would give the LT armor that looks so much like Gray Teams armor, Gray Team was listed as having Mark IV and NOT Mark V.

I have yet to read The Cole Protocol so I cannot speculate/reference/criticize from that stand point.

I'm going to try and hold a neutral/reservists stance until more info is released.

I'm also going to have to agree with Apollo, Bungie has lost their touch. I hated Halo 3 for the amount of time on earth versus that on an actual Halo, but I was pleased how it tied together and how it ended. ODST bored me to death, some things were neat, overall I didn't care for it.

Do Spartan III's even have shields? I thought their armor was el-cheapo stealth garbage. Did they get an upgrade to MJOLNIR or did Jorge get downgraded to their tech level?

I still don't think they're going to waste in-game exposition on the whole SII/SIII thing. If they do, they'll be making a mistake. That sort of trivia is better suited for the game manual or trying to fluff up a magazine article.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

All the Spartan III groups died in big operations not on Reach. A Covenant refueling depot in 2545 killed all of the second group.And what about the first group of S-III?
It's pretty fucking obvious the S-III's were secret so theres no telling at all how many were "made". The third group was still on Onyx when it disintegrated, and that takes place in late 2552 or early 2553. There is no space in there for Spartan-IIIs to be on Reach. Period. Either they retcon something or these are Spartan-IIs that we don't know about (and there were plenty). If it's the former, that makes it sloppy, and that's what some of us are complaining about. That and the shitty-looking armour (and weapons, and vehicles). It's not the colours so much as the proportions...again.
Again, with the whole "baww their armours different" Reach was the main military industrial planet for the UNSC infact in first strike it mentions new weapons that not even the S-II's knew of so who knows what armour might have been there.
The spartan armour we saw previously was specificly for their mission to capture a covenant ship and kidnap a prothet, Period.
Don't let Halowars fool you.

Actually, you should just stop because just about every post involving Halo-lore you have ever made has either been wrong through lack of sufficient information or deduced by faulty logic. Quit while you are ahead. Go read the books and inform yourself (again if you already have). :downs:
The only book i've not read is Cole protocol and i've read the others a fair bit, so instead of bitching with your faulty logic of insisting the spartans would stick with one generic armour and not specialise for their missions you might want to grab something called "common sense".

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I personaly am glad to see S-III's with a S-II in one game.
I would be very much interested to find out if there are more S-II's in the story line somewhere, the relation between S-II and S-III could be interesting considering the S-II's dont like working with average soldiers.

But good fucking god theres so much butthurt in this thread, alot of people are acting as if they've had a horse rape them or something because the game doe's not meet their every whim.
The books themselves had a degree of artistic flair and licence so why everyone should expect the game to be a exact representation of a already different variation of canon is beyond me.

If any of you have been paying attention to some of the H:R dev (both senior and monkey-see-doers) team, some of them are actually new comers. Hence, artistic liberties and the fact that I'm pretty sure Bungie doesn't want to make another Halo 1 since this isn't even the same story arc. Nor was ODST.

The winds of change are always blowing. Either get a windbreaker or just go hide inside.

Yeah, it's weird seeing the lead Sandbox designer be some ex-FASA guy that looks like he's straight out of Orzammar. I guess we know what Jaime is doing if he wasn't on ODST and isn't on Reach.

But Marcus is the creative director and he's been there forever. I don't really give a shit what he is or isn't fucking up. The Halo canon was already fractured; they're just making the fissures larger at this point. And it's simply because they painted themselves into several corners. Like I said many pages back: better luck with the next IP, Bungie.

Or.... how about a nice reboot? All the cool franchises are doing it.

If there is a reboot, we'll just get all the naysayers we're getting now :\

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Originally Posted by Arteen

Who gives a crap? Fun game and story > staying consistent with every detail from a vague, tangentially-related book? All of Nylund's books have contradictions or stupid plot-points best left ignored.

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Except knowing all the inconsistencies while playing the game creates discontinuity, and discontinuity breaks the experience. That's part of what made the Prequel Trilogy of Star Wars so terrible (the rest was Jar Jar and terrible acting).

Heres what I see:

If Bungie dont make any drastic changes, people will just bitch and moan its H3 with a different story and thats it.

If Bungie make big bold changes, people will bitch it doesnt follow story/have that Halo feel.

I'm stuck in the middle, I'm not impressed with the new style, technological improvements in the engine do interest me, but that can be done without fucking everything else up. Characters seem too "GOW" for my style, big, fat, chubby, bulky when they dont need to.

Halo:Reach no matter what, will have a hard reception, people will be wanting new Halo content, others will want it to be more like Halo 1.

Am I the only one who hates the new grenade icon? Looks way too big and fat.

I know for a fact, Halo Reach will never be better than Halo 1 for me, because Halo 1 is what made me fall in love with the series. That is the crem-de-le-creme of Halo.

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Originally Posted by Limited

Heres what I see:

If Bungie dont make any drastic changes, people will just bitch and moan its H3 with a different story and thats it.

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ODST

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Originally Posted by Limited

If Bungie make big bold changes, people will bitch it doesnt follow story/have that Halo feel.

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Reach.

You are exactly right.

You also have to realize that after releasing a game like halo 1, it is a tough act to follow, rarely are sequels anything as good as the first (note the fucking rarely, as I am sure you will pop up with some examples), simply because you are experiencing golden age syndrome. You put the game up on a pedestal and think " wow this game is truly the greatest, man I remember blah blah blah and doing blah blah and tea bagging blaah."
It's just like old people, they say those times were so much better, when they had fucking world wars and dinosaurs.

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Originally Posted by =sw=warlord

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

All the Spartan III groups died in big operations not on Reach. A Covenant refueling depot in 2545 killed all of the second group.And what about the first group of S-III?
It's pretty fucking obvious the S-III's were secret so theres no telling at all how many were "made". The third group was still on Onyx when it disintegrated, and that takes place in late 2552 or early 2553. There is no space in there for Spartan-IIIs to be on Reach. Period. Either they retcon something or these are Spartan-IIs that we don't know about (and there were plenty). If it's the former, that makes it sloppy, and that's what some of us are complaining about. That and the shitty-looking armour (and weapons, and vehicles). It's not the colours so much as the proportions...again.
Again, with the whole "baww their armours different" Reach was the main military industrial planet for the UNSC infact in first strike it mentions new weapons that not even the S-II's knew of so who knows what armour might have been there.
The spartan armour we saw previously was specificly for their mission to capture a covenant ship and kidnap a prothet, Period.
Don't let Halowars fool you.

Actually, you should just stop because just about every post involving Halo-lore you have ever made has either been wrong through lack of sufficient information or deduced by faulty logic. Quit while you are ahead. Go read the books and inform yourself (again if you already have).
The only book i've not read is Cole protocol and i've read the others a fair bit, so instead of bitching with your faulty logic of insisting the spartans would stick with one generic armour and not specialise for their missions you might want to grab something called "common sense".

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1.) The first group was wiped out completely with no survivors, said so in the Halo Encyclopedia. Aside from that, they happened way too fucking early to mean anything with regard to Reach.

2.) Never played Halo Wars. Wasn't worth my time. Besides, those were Mk. IV armour anyways.

3.) Way to not read the whole thread, again. I said there were armour variants on the Mk. V and VI, and I said the idea armour variants isn't what gets me, it's the shitty proportionality. Anyways, what they are wearing is clearly not SPI in any way, shape, or form. And there were no other missions to specialise in to boot. There was Alpha Group (annihilated), Beta Group (annihilated save for two), and Gamma Group (a few survivors in the Dyson Sphere, the rest can be presumed dead). Gamma Team came around after the Fall of Reach, so there is no space whatsoever for these "Reach" Spartan-IIIs. Sorry, but you lose again. You may have read the books, but clearly you need to reference them more. So far you haven't demonstrated that you have any of your facts straight. Guess the joke is on you. Again.

And again I'll say: if these changes were tasteful at all, we'd all be nodding our heads in approval. So far, none of these changes are tasteful. If you like big, clunky, Unreal-style Juggernaut Spartans and half-baked weapons, more power to you. Us "butthurt" people don't.

tl;dr: learn to read.

The amount of nerd rage in this thread makes me lol. I never knew people could be that obsessed with a video game to the point they think they're experts and if one thing is off, the entire game is going to fail. Why don't you like, wait till it comes out and then try it and base your judgments off of actually playing it; not just some screen shots and your supposed expertise in videogame lore. Why can't you people have this same kind of devotion to something useful to others? Like not trying to troll or anything, but like, if you showed that much devotion to something worth while and not some video game, the world might just be a fraction of a percent better. Geeze. Nerd rage more.

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Originally Posted by Limited

Characters seem too "GOW" for my style, big, fat, chubby, bulky when they dont need to.

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Yet the entire series doesn't seem too Aliens for you?

Also I have to agree with the above post. It's a damn video game, not the lost pages of the new testament.

It's about the chunkiness. It works in GoW because it's an Epic game...all Epic games have big and chunky characters. Period. We haven't seen that in Halo. Now we do. So we are all scratching our heads wondering what Gorge is doing on Reach.

Having been disappointed in Halo 3, I welcome these changes.

I never really fully understood what people hated about Halo 3 so much. It was a fairly decent game. It wasn't god-like, but I did enjoy it.

Same.

I enjoyed it too, don't get me wrong, but after all the hype I guess I had higher expectations. I thought the gameplay felt like Halo 2.5, considering the BR was still the weapon of choice, and none of the new weapons really added anything significant to the game.

Honestly, I liked ODST more, the new weapons were a bit of a breath of fresh air, changed the way the game was played.

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Originally Posted by Con

I think he's saying it's best not to reference anything yet until we have something more conclusive; it's not the time for meaningful first impressions.

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Yeah, I was tired when I typed that and over-reacted a bit.

Seriously though KM, having a contrary opinion is fine and all, but you don't have to be so damned smug about it. >_>

Bungie just needs to fucking drop the Halo IP already. This would solve so many issues with it being too much like or not enough like previous games.

Personally, I don't give a shit. If it's fun to play, I'm down. Yeah I'm into the universe and I edit Halopedia, but I don't get an erection over the story or characters and fear losing it over the slightest inconsistency like everyone else seems to.

I enjoy the majority of the lore, but I have an undying obsession with the Forerunner. As long as they don't EVER touch that I should be able to weather most of this...

They were the paragons of galactic society, the near perfect goal of what every society should be. Through extreme advancements in technology and the spread of that technology to everyone, all conflicts were eliminated. Guardians of the Mantle they protected us, all of us. It's that sheer nobility that draws me in.

I hope that's never changed.

IMO, the only chunky one is Jorge...who is a SII and more than likely has exp in EOD.

And has a collection of kitties at home :allears:

The team leader is a bit buffer, but hey, no one has any real say on SIIIs besides Bungie, especially when it comes to being on Reach which is (err, was?) the military back bone of the UNSC. They've also mentioned that Noble Team only has 2 of it's original members, meaning that cream-de-crop SIIIs were probably pulled from the existing Alpha, Beta, and Gamma groups. What's one or two pulled here and there after all?

Also, I've got a feeling we're going to see most, if not all of Noble go "MIA" the Spartan way by the end of this game.

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Bungie just needs to fucking drop the Halo IP already. This would solve so many issues with it being too much like or not enough like previous games.

Personally, I don't give a shit. If it's fun to play, I'm down. Yeah I'm into the universe and I edit Halopedia, but I don't get an erection over the story or characters and fear losing it over the slightest inconsistency like everyone else seems to.

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QFT. Bungie, when are you gonna announce your super-secret other project?

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

IMO, the only chunky one is Jorge...who is a SII and more than likely has exp in EOD.

And has a collection of kitties at home :allears:

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And not only that, jorge has a goddamn canteen strapped to his chest.

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Originally Posted by FRain

And not only that, jorge has a goddamn canteen strapped to his chest.

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Well shit, you'd be sweating up a storm in that thing too :saddowns:

Isn't that a flame thrower he's dragging around? Could just be an artistic backup. Or a perk...

Halo 1 was just so optimal in a lot of ways. The Master Chief was the only remaining Spartan, so he was granted a unique and iconic appearance, towering over the other humans and giving the player a sense that, oh shit, if I can't pull this off, nobody can.

Now, Spartans are dime-a-half-dozen space marines wearing "distinctive" armor that looks like it was cobbled together from ten years wroth of discarded concept art.

One of the best things about Halo 1 was forerunner architecture. It was ancient, mysterious, alien. You could design any abstract gameplay space and it would work. Unlike Bungie's attempts at futuristic human architecture which come off as TOO abstract in design to be believed. At best, Bungie's human environments look like environments we've seen a thousand times before in other generic sci-fi games.

So, we get Earth for a third of Halo 2, half of Halo 3, and all of ODST. Wonderful.

I can trace all these missteps to some underlying need at Bungie to provide fan service. Fans wanted Earth and only Earth in Halo 2. Fans were fascinated with ODST's. And fans wanted lots and lots of Spartans.

Clearly, fans don't know what's good for them and Bungie needs to focus on making correct decisions that benefit their games. Hopefully, the new IP will embody that.

Just don't fucking publish any novels about it. Leave the details nebulous, lest you have to contradict them later.

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

IMO, the only chunky one is Jorge...who is a SII and more than likely has exp in EOD.

And has a collection of kitties at home :allears:

The team leader is a bit buffer, but hey, no one has any real say on SIIIs besides Bungie, especially when it comes to being on Reach which is (err, was?) the military back bone of the UNSC. They've also mentioned that Noble Team only has 2 of it's original members, meaning that cream-de-crop SIIIs were probably pulled from the existing Alpha, Beta, and Gamma groups. What's one or two pulled here and there after all?

Also, I've got a feeling we're going to see most, if not all of Noble go "MIA" the Spartan way by the end of this game.

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Not talking about the artwork. I'm talking about the trailer. They were all chunky in the trailer.

I think the real issue with Halo 2 and 3 is the lack of available ammunition. Think about it. If Halo 1 had such a minuscule amount of ammunition for its weapons, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as fun. In Halo 2 and 3, you get to use your SMG or BR for all of one or two firefights and then you have to ditch it for some shitty Covenant weapon.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Not talking about the artwork. I'm talking about the trailer. They were all chunky in the trailer.

I think the real issue with Halo 2 and 3 is the lack of available ammunition. Think about it. If Halo 1 had such a minuscule amount of ammunition for its weapons, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as fun. In Halo 2 and 3, you get to use your SMG or BR for all of one or two firefights and then you have to ditch it for some shitty Covenant weapon.

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Yup, it would be understandable if you were on an alien planet or their spaceship. But if you on earth, you should be able to find human ammunition. I love the BR, and I hate having to pick up a crappy plasma pistol because thats only weapon lying around with ammo.

Also whats the deal with being able to pick up weapons with no ammo? Biggest cock tease ever.

The other thing is that in the Halo 1 levels, you are fighting all the way, and the firefights could get drawn out. Halo 2 and 3 both have a sprinkling of enemies (even the Flood are not representative of their name anymore) which are dealt with so blindingly fast at any dificulty level that there is no game. It's run, blast, run. I can say that apart from Halo 2 Legendary, I've never had to sit and formulate a strategy for getting out of a fight in one piece in the last two core Halo games. ODST brought that element back a little bit for the Mombasa Streets, and that is what gives it its place in the series.

I am curious what Halo would be like if it was given a AI director like Left4Dead.
that could make the campaign alot more diverse in terms of game play as for instance instead of finding say a pair of hunters you walk into the room to find there is a zealot elite in camo with a normal pack of elites and grunts, you think you've killed everything not noticing the camoflauged zealot.
This would in turn make you more sharp and alot more carefull about your encounters as what happpened before might not happen again and what was easy before isnt so easy now.

It works in left 4 dead because you always have a chance to assess your situation before jumping into it. In Halo, the AI is suspiciously omniscient and they can spot you from like 50 miles away.

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Originally Posted by ejburke

Clearly, fans don't know what's good for them

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this line flips my shit.

all over the place.

Everyone has their own opinion, but you're making it like its a big fucking deal if the fans wanted to see something else. You're acting as if you're opinion is the only correct one.

E:

I don't mind people having a different opinion. It's when you're making assumptions based on thin air.

so everyone except the big bulky one is an SIII (joge is his name right? well hes the only SII in the group)

you have a "loadout", think a single CoD perk, like sprinting for a brief while or arbiter style camo

new jackal like enemy called "skirmisher"...it looks ok, but its just a jackal with more health and no shield

the civilian vehicles look ok

oh and the assasination take downs look sweet

i'm waiting for the beta

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Originally Posted by FRain

this line flips my shit.

all over the place.

Everyone has their own opinion, but you're making it like its a big fucking deal if the fans wanted to see something else. You're acting as if you're opinion is the only correct one.

E:

I don't mind people having a different opinion. It's when you're making assumptions based on thin air.

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I allow for differing opinions. For example, I can't stand Left 4 Dead, but I respect that other people enjoy it.

What I'm talking about here is more akin to parent vs child. The child wants ice cream and candy for dinner and the parent insists on a well-rounded meal. Is that a difference of opinion, with neither being right or wrong? Or is the parent making an informed, analytical decision, while the child impulsively listens to its sweet tooth?

Wisdom vs ignorance. Most Halo fans never for one second considered how having other Spartans would cheapen and diminish the Master Chief and his mystique. They just don't think on that analytical level. To them, the appearance of other Spartans would simply be cool. But the issues I raise affect everyone, consciously or subconsciously.

Bungie has to be the parent here. They have to recognize the long term damage they might inflict. Maybe they just don't care. Maybe you just don't care. THAT would be an opinion.

If you're like me and consider the character of the Master Chief one of the major successes of the franchise, then you would perceive efforts to diminish his value -- intentional or not -- as the wrong move. Maybe you don't think it would be THAT harmful, but there are certainly consequences to introducing similar characters. That cannot be argued.

The only way Bungie can come out ahead is by making these new Spartans more successful than the Master Chief. And who sees that happening?

Sorry if this comes off as condescending. Sometimes there's just no way around that. Take it in the spirit in which it's intended.

I thought the game would play out like the novel...with Chief and his team.

Instead Bungie feeds us these randoms with bullshit armor and weapons and expect us to eat it. At least most of their dumb fans will bite and it'll get huge sales regardless because it's Halo.

Taking a game too seriously is always fun. I'm sure the gameplay will be as fantastic as previous games regardless of story.

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Originally Posted by Good_Apollo

I thought the game would play out like the novel...with Chief and his team.

Instead Bungie feeds us these randoms with bullshit armor and weapons and expect us to eat it. At least most of their dumb fans will bite and it'll get huge sales regardless because it's Halo.

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chief didnt even goto reach in the first battle for reach so...

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Originally Posted by =sw=warlord

chief didnt even goto reach in the first battle for reach so...

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...lawl. :realsmug:

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Originally Posted by Good_Apollo

...lawl. :realsmug:

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Feel smug all you like, chief was in the orbital station and then left in autumn, he didnt land on reach until AFTER Halo.

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Originally Posted by =sw=warlord

Feel smug all you like, chief was in the orbital station and then left in autumn, he didnt land on reach until AFTER Halo.

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So he wasn't involved in the Battle for Reach just because he wasn't groundside? :eng101:

Go reread the book.

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Originally Posted by MrBig

Taking a game too seriously is always fun. I'm sure the gameplay will be as fantastic as previous games regardless of story.

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It's beside the point. I'm sure Bungie could make a game where the protagonist jerks off to Sonic the Hedgehog characters fun. It doesn't mean they can't be called out for catering to furries.

more like Halo: Reach Around

I'm just glad they got rid of the spam-happy Battle Rifle and replaced it with something that'll actually require the user to aim rather than spam shots at their target's head.

Never seen this before:





God I hate you Bungie... :allears:

wow thats bad ass

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Originally Posted by Good_Apollo

I thought the game would play out like the novel...with Chief and his team.

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right, because everyone wants to read a book, play a game, and watch a movie that all follow the exact same plot. That sounds fantastic.

Its like there are good Halo fans that like originality, and then there are the others. The "Purists". But being a purist isn't bad, its being a stupid purist that is bad.

I am not insinuating you are either of these Apollo, so don't get upset.

E: Oh wait, I didn't read the second part of your post. You called the ones that take the changes and originality and give it a chance dumb?
:lmao:

Right, I forgot bawwww'ing anytime something different shows up makes you smart.

E: and I take back what I said. I AM insinuating that you are one of the stupid purists.

E: and that spartan has been shown around here before, maybe just not this thread.

so yeah, comepltely ignoring the fact you guys disregarded whats been confirmed by game informer with their hands on time with a demo, continue to argue...

no one wants to even bother talking about the "armor" loadout, thats been confirmed, which is like a single perk you can swap out, ex. SPARTAN sprint and arbiter style camo being two of the loadouts revealed in the demo

also, the health pack is returning so we can expect people to hunt those down ala halo 1 (was no fun in ODST seeing as how they were basically every where)

so yeah...