Halo: Anniversary - The Halo 1 remake (fuck anyone who calls it "halo ce" remake)

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

A game doesn't have to be about skill to take skill. Why don't they just auto-lock my crosshairs onto every target and shoot for me while they are at it?


You missed the part about everyone else also being augmented super-soldiers wearing state of the art performance-enhancing suits built 500 years in the future. You also didn't put two and two together with everything else. If you are firing your gun while trying to close for a melee finish, that is not a melee play-style. That's using melee the way it was originally intended. Also, if you smack me with full shields in Halo 1, I still have at least 25% left, which means I still have a good chance to kill you. That means you just went full retard for trying to hit me when I had full shields up because now you are going to get a plasma to the face or a shotgun blast to the gut. Furthermore, they didn't give it a focus on being a finisher for all subsequent games, they took that focus away. It's so powerful now all you have to do is run up to anybody who doesn't have a 1-hit-kill weapon and smack him twice in rapid succession (because not only did they overpower melee, they also made the attacks very fast). That's not a finisher.

Not to sound conceited, but there is no one gun or playstyle I whore in Halo, because that is boring. I would say that I have a more objective view of the game because of that. When a game that stresses having options forces everyone to adopt the same play style to have any chance of winning, that means it's broken. Even close quarters maps force you to either be a melee whore or a DMR spammer. You want to roll with a plasma repeater, assault rifle, shotgun, sniper rifle, needler, concussion rifle, etc.? Fuck you, you can be dead!

That shit is why I don't play Reach online anymore. It's not fun. I can go on melee streaks, but I don't enjoy it. I want to have a reason to hear those beautiful gunshot sounds that they worked on.

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I love you.

n00b im looking at your argument, and im not seeing anything specific. youre telling me aiming isnt as difficult as it is in quake (and id agree with that), but there is still an emphasis on team based gameplay if youre really going for competitive play. im looking for what SPECIFIC things in halo 1 make it unsuitable for competitive play.

responses like this:

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Originally Posted by n00b1n8R

Now all you have to do is get within 10 metres and smash "B". Yeah. That takes skill. Halo isn't about skill silly! It also makes it NOT fun for those who don't like the button-masher melee play style. Your type is not the only playstyle, hth. :v: No but it's the one favoured by increased melee range so of course I'm going to have a positive subjective opinion about it :downs:

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are ridiculous in this conversation. we are talking about melee lunge and increased damage turning it into a primary weapon. you even admitted that you ABUSE melee in any situation that allows it. im not insulting the way you choose to play, but the fact that melee is abusable that way in the first place is the issue we are talking about here.
again, im not attacking your choice of gameplay style, im criticizing the fact that the melee one you choose exists. like i said before, just because you think halo isnt about skill doesnt mean the game should have these over-powered "noob friendly" alternatives to aiming.

I doubt this will happen.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

A game doesn't have to be about skill to take skill. Didn't say it takes no skill. I was saying the skill-curve isn't as steep and the skill ceiling is lower. Why don't they just auto-lock my crosshairs onto every target and shoot for me while they are at it?

You missed the part about everyone else also being augmented super-soldiers wearing state of the art performance-enhancing suits built 500 years in the future. what the hell are you saying here? You also didn't put two and two together with everything else. If you are firing your gun while trying to close for a melee finish, that is not a melee play-style. I never said it was a finisher :S That's using melee the way it was originally intended. Also, if you smack me with full shields in Halo 1, I still have at least 25% left, which means I still have a good chance to kill you. The time taken by the melee animation (on appropriate weapons) is well worth the un-used firing time. That means you just went full retard for trying to hit me when I had full shields up because now you are going to get a plasma to the face or a shotgun blast to the gut. EVERYBODY KNOWS ITS SMART TO MELEE SOMEBODY WITH A SHOTGUN :neckbeard: Furthermore, they didn't give it a focus on being a finisher for all subsequent games, they took that focus away. It's so powerful now all you have to do is run up to anybody Who let you run at them who doesn't have a 1-hit-kill weapon and smack him twice in rapid succession (because not only did they overpower melee, they also made the attacks very fast). That's not a finisher. Really never felt like a finisher to me so vOv

Not to sound conceited, but there is no one gun or playstyle I whore in Halo, because that is boring. As would any competent player, I imagine you have a preferred one though. I would say that I have a more objective view of the game because of that. When a game that stresses having options forces everyone to adopt the same play style to have any chance of winning, that means it's broken. Even close quarters maps force you to either be a melee whore or a DMR spammer. You want to roll with a plasma repeater, assault rifle, shotgun, sniper rifle, needler, concussion rifle, etc.? Fuck you, you can be dead! I do anyway though. Never played reach on LIVE but at LAN's I use most guns vOv It's not like melee is weapon-specific anyway.

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Originally Posted by Donut

n00b im looking at your argument, and im not seeing anything specific. youre telling me aiming isnt as difficult as it is in quake (and id agree with that) intentional? , but there is still an emphasis on team based gameplay if youre really going for competitive play. im looking for what SPECIFIC things in halo 1 make it unsuitable for competitive play.

I'm not really being specific. You can play anything competitively but I'm saying there's better suited alternatives compared to Halo.

responses like this:
:quote:
are ridiculous in this conversation. we are talking about melee lunge and increased damage turning it into a primary weapon. you even admitted that you ABUSE melee in any situation that allows it. im not insulting the way you choose to play, but the fact that melee is abusable that way in the first place is the issue we are talking about here.
again, im not attacking your choice of gameplay style, im criticising the fact that the melee one you choose exists. like i said before, just because you think halo isnt about skill doesn't mean the game should have these over-powered "noob friendly" alternatives to aiming.

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I suppose what the addition of melee lunge did to the Halo series is effectively give all players an additional 3rd close range weapon. A melee attack is still inferior to purpose built short range weapons however. If somebody tries to go melee with somebody who's holding a shotgun, that's pretty obviously a bad move. But if you've got nothing else to use properly at that range and no way out, it's quite appropriate.

To use it effectively as a primary however, you have to deliberaly close that gap and target people you can get away with it on. I exaggerated when I said my playstyle was all about it. It's more that I'd much prefer use melee at close range given the opportunity. It's just more fun for me :p

Abuse was used in the same way one would abuse any weapon, like running people over in Banshees, it's just the nature of the game. It may be easier for some players to get kills by mainly using melee as a primary weapon but they'll obviously never do as well as people who get a solid grasp of all aspects (eg, using guns!). It's never felt cheap to me to be killed by melee because I let them get that close and I'd have done the same thing given the chance.

This got written over a few hours so hopefully it's not too sporadic :v:

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Originally Posted by Spartan094

Call of Duty didn't really have 1 hit melee kills/knife kills until CoD 4. Well I noticed one hit kills in CoD 4 and above, anything below I remember having to melee 2 or 3 times with the but of your gun since CoD 1-3 did that.

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I said every NEW fps, also CoD has had 1 hit kill melees at least since CoD 2, the lunge didn't get started till 4 though.

n00b1n8R, go re-read the post before your last one very slowly, then re-read mine. If you still can't see what the relation of my response is, then I don't really have anything more to say.

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Originally Posted by n00b1n8R

It's never felt cheap to me to be killed by melee because I let them get that close and I'd have done the same thing given the chance.

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Melee lunge only makes it worse.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

n00b1n8R, go re-read the post before your last one very slowly, then re-read mine. If you still can't see what the relation of my response is, then I don't really have anything more to say.

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Ok, just a sec

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Originally Posted by Shock120

This.

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uh

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Originally Posted by annihilation

Melee lunge only makes it worse.

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But saying it's a bad thing is entirely subjective. I let them do it, it's entirely my fault.

I miss in Halo 1 when you could hit Melee, Grenade, Melee (BLB) and kill someone instantly.

I miss in Halo 2 how you could melee, reload, melee,(BXB) or melee, reload, and shoot(BXR) with any headshot weapon.

Oh wait, Halo has always had ways to abuse melee.

I think the problem you guys have with melee is that you're all just butthurt about the assassination animations. Keep an eye on that radar, or use armor lock and teamwork to avoid melee deaths. Take the game less seriously and you'll have a LOT more fun with it.

Or go play Counter Strike.

The competitive play comes into place when you have crazy awesome teamwork. Halo puts so much emphasis on how strong the player is, and makes you FEEL strong, so you feel like you don't really NEED a team. But if you're rolling with a proper team who can assist fire and call stuff out properly it changes everything.

Same thing in Halo 3, same thing in Halo 2, same thing in Halo 1. That's where the competitive play is and the skill curve is, is just with teamwork.

That being said, I don't care enough about Reach to dedicate the time to become that great at it, because that's just stressful. I just shoot kids, punch kids, and toss nades at em. Don't get all butthurt when you get beat down because YOU didn't check your radar, or because YOU didn't adapt to the situation. It's YOUR fault that you died, not Bungie's. If you see someone coming up to you to melee you, guess what?... YOU CAN PUNCH THEM TOO.

tl;dr
From an actual design standpoint...

I'd say the melee lunge is there because it's very difficult to tell precise distances in 3D space when you see this 3D space on a 2D plane. Your brain can't use it's normal ways of determining distance using depth and so you have to rely on size of objects in relation to the objects around them which is a lot less accurate. The lunge helps bridge that gap and that's why it's become so successful and common of a gameplay mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Llama Juice

From an actual design standpoint...

I'd say the melee lunge is there because it's very difficult to tell precise distances in 3D space when you see this 3D space on a 2D plane. Your brain can't use it's normal ways of determining distance using depth and so you have to rely on size of objects in relation to the objects around them which is a lot less accurate. The lunge helps bridge that gap and that's why it's become so successful and common of a gameplay mechanic.

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I don't know.

I agree with others that it is the addition of the lunge that makes the melee so...disappointing. The lunge melee in Halo 3+ seems to almost be like the energy sword in Halo 2 -- but with no need to actually hold the sword. I was shocked when I first began playing Halo 3 multiplayer and got lunge melee'ed to death in small maps. There doesn't seem to be any real need for close range weapons if you can just run around lunge meleeing people to death (and the lunge melee is more effective).

Don't get me wrong: I don't mind the lunge or the melee. I just wish that they were more...realistic. Perhaps the lunge strike could be at a smaller distance...and the melee not so powerful unless you jump and strike in the neck? IMHO, these one melee strike kills of enemy that are WEARING SPARTAN ARMOUR is just silly.

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