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Afghanistan's legit. The Taliban were definitely pretty bad dudes, and the place was being used as one giant terrorist stomping ground, pretty much. There's absolutely no oil to speak of there, so a war for economic interests it sure as hell ain't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass
Afghanistan would fall into the category of clearly impossible conflicts, I mean, you can't honestly think it's possible to successfully occupy Afghanistan. We're no more powerful in a relative sense than the Soviets, English, Mongols, and Greeks were. Forcing the Taliban to seek haven in a nuclear armed country and throwing out the guys that kept heroin from being produced by the fuckton does not sum up to a "legit" war. Besides, it's also a mess of the United States' own creation what with the fact that we formerly supplied the people we are fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
We can drive over bombs and use robots to shoot what might as well be great briefcases of cash at cave entrances for years and years and never gain an inch of anything valuable.
Just because it's not something we can ever clearly win, doesn't mean it was totally wrong. Think about it. At least now they might have some chance at getting somewhere without being put to death for breaching the Taliban's fucking ridiculous laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass
Ridiculous is a matter of opinion. It might be normal law to them, but ridiculous to you and besides, who said they wanted to break away from that government anyways?Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Right, or they could not commit a single crime at all, ever in their life, and have a stray missile land in their yard. They could be forced to deal with heavily armed young men that don't speak their language and are scared shitless often enough. Almost regardless of the state of one's government, invasion by a foreign power is not something an average man will approve of.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
The Taliban wouldn't still have so large a portion of their strength if they hadn't had a decent chunk of public support from the beginning. Plus, quite a few remain in the government. Not to mention our friends in the UIF/Northern Alliance are hardly angels.
So, yes, I would say that the war in Afghanistan is and has been "totally wrong." Not so much because of malicious intent as that it is a terrible way to reach the goal of eliminating potential terrorists or reducing the number of human rights violations.
Plus side consequences like increased opiate production and the Abrams tank giving everyone lung cancer.
Hmmm. I dunno. How about all those people they killed and tortured? How about all the minority groups they persecuted? How about the poor fucking villagers who were forced to serve as human shields for them?Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
How many of you actually have any idea at all what happened there?
I can tell you I have no clue, because I wasn't there. I think it's probably the media that is mind fucking most of us.
Having spoken to guys who WERE there (we have a few from 3 RAR taking a bit of a breather, attached to our unit for now) and read actual accounts, trust me. The Taliban were about as popular with the general population as Hitler was with the Poles.
Wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
That's not right at all, some people just want to do something with their lives, others might want to serve their country and others, such as myself, might be having trouble finding employment with today's economic crisis.
I have been a Reservist since May 20, 2008, and everything I've learned in the Army has been crazy, to call a Soldier a reject is a straight up insult, we need to be trained - you don't give someone a rifle and ship them overseas. There are guys at my unit that know and understand what they have to do whereas there are civvies I know that I wouldn't trust with a fucking broomstick, let alone a rifle.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass
While the Taliban are the lowest form of life on the planet, we, nor anybody else have the right to invade. What right does America have to invade another country and start a pointless war? Nothing. America are no different than any other country on the planet. The entire occupation was a mistake, there are no WMD, just oil, a bunch of terrorists and a country that's worse now than when it was before.
How do you defeat an enemy that fears God more than he fears you?
The answer is you can't.
Hey remember way back in 2001 when their friends they were harboring in their country crashed a few planes into buildings and killed 4000 people?? :allears:Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshot
My dad was. So was my grandfather. So was my father’s friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
You say the military isn’t only about killing, but really, go look what its doing now. If you tell me there doing scientific research and other crap to help the American people. You are blinded. They are there for money purposes (oil) and are getting killed/killing because they are ordered to. Just because you love tanks and ships and planes so much, doesn’t mean they are right and should be used against humanity because of something called defense and then invasion. ;)
America already failed. It’s that simple. They should have pulled out when they had the chance of not looking like ass’s. But owai, they already do look like that. Because of this war, look at how the prices for things went up. Tell me something, if the military is so good, why can’t the American government and military help there own country out instead of disputing other countries affairs? North Korea to have nuclear capability. Shall they go and invade that too?
My point is, the military does stuff wrong, and has the thick face of not caring. So joining them is like joining a lost cause. J
How about all those people in US OF A that are killed because of gangs and drug dealers. What about all those Mexicans crossing the boarder? What about all the poor people? You think war is right even if you don’t win? Then you might as well throw money in the air, and have your population be poor and starve. Oh, nvm. America is already doing that. A corrupt government sums it all up. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
How about the many more people that were killed because we interfered? What happened there have happen throughout the world for centuries. Let THEM figure things out and start the revolution then we can aid them, not start it ourselves.
When they figure out a government based on religion isn't going to work out, they'll do something about it. We're doing the samething that was done in the past hundreds and thousands of times before, but instead of offering "salvation," we're offering "freedom."
Why do we keep trying to label one side as "Evil" since WWII? What makes them more evil than say the crusade? One side defends land while the other is conquerring land. If trying to conquer/expanding or defend your land makes you evil, then I guess the entire world is evil.
What works for you will not work for everyone! So don't start a war and justify it as "they wanted it," "they're evil," or "we're defending our freedom." You don't know what they want, they're not evil just because their governing system and judicial system doesn't work like ours and No! You are not defending your freedom. Your freedom isn't in the Middle East.
And finally the same thing is happening in Africa, why isn't it about that instead of the Middle East?
Yeah, that kinda wasn't working. See, the Taliban could call in their overseas terrorist buds. The Afghan resistance couldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
Read the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
I dunno, but if you consider killing and torturing people for not conforming entirely to your beliefs not evil then I think you should probably see a psychologist, and quite soon at thatQuote:
Originally Posted by kid908
You kids are fucking idiots! Tell me how many Afghans you know! Tell me what your sources are, since you seem to know so much! A mate of mine's entire extended family had to bail and leave everything they had behind because of the Taliban, and they were the lucky ones. The unlucky ones were stuck in villages where the only people with any sort of free will or right to voice their opinion were the Taliban! I dunno about you, but I find it literally impossible to believe that the people there could find this arrangement favourable. You think they enjoy being forced into following the laws of a bunch of religious extremists?Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
Because Africa wasn't housing the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks at the time, do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
And one final note, before anyone else decides to bring it up:
THERE IS NO OIL IN AFGHANISTAN. NOT ONE MOTHERFUCKING DROP.
Got it?
My point exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyon
The occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan was because of weapons of mass destruction and oil - not 9/11. The Bush administration invaded both countries under false pretenses. For fucks sake it's lasted longer than World War 2. The entire war was, and still is, pointless.
By the way, just because they were harboring them in their country doesn't mean every Afghan and Iraqi hates America. Unfortunately, after this war, I fear that will change.
Wake up. They were just a bunch of delusion religious nut jobs.
Iraq was under false pretences. Afghanistan wasn't. I supported the war right up until Iraq.
Once again, no oil in Afghanistan. Practically the only resource of worth in the country is opium, which is fuck all use to the US. Unless they're after the rusting iron off Soviet tank wrecks, it's not a resource war.
your aspergers is showing :ohdear:Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
you... you posted...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolobus
my bro...
uh yes they can...they're called allies. You won't last as a resistence or nation without allies.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Maybe you just have a high standard for "good" or I just have a low standard for "good," but Just stop labeling one side good and the other evil. You think you're doing good by free them and they think they're doing good by defending their government.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
And guess what? They don't even complain about the current events there as much as the Americans I know or you for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
and guess who they're arming and funding/getting funded by in Africa? They aren't exclusively in Afghan, their organization is just as deep in other countries as gangs.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
I've also have not seen a single real proof they're behind 9/11. Just our government's word that they were behind it. The word of the government that started an illegal war in Iraq.
Also as a side note just to bring it up: NOT everything is about oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
Can this thread be cut into 2 threads seeing how this thread is about joining the military and the reason for or against it and NOT about the ongoing war and the arguement for and against it.
i'd like to nominate kid908 for most fitting/appropriate username
Hmmyes I bet it would be really easy to draw allies to your cause when on one side of you is the country these fucks are based in, and on all other sides are countries which DON'T CARE because they AREN'T AFFECTED.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
Jesus, you're dense.
Sorry, what? Who's 'they'? The average villager? Well that's odd, since I don't really see them up in arms about us going in and stomping the Taliban. Oddly enough, most of them seem pretty happy about it. What the hell is wrong with these people?Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
Yeah complaining sure does get you a long way in a country where free speech is a capital offence, about as far as it is from where you're standing to the nearest ditch in fact!Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
No fucking shit? The difference is that their leader was in Afghanistan. Their training camps were in Afghanistan. They might be getting funded by other countries, hell, they could even be recruiting in other countries (and they are on both counts), but Afghanistan was the one place they could do literally whatever they liked with no repercussions. Why? Because they basically WERE the 'government'.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
Dammit, you got me. The ZOG was behind it. I chose the targets. I thought we'd made a convincing enough job of it! holy fuck if you actually believe that you are literally retardedQuote:
Originally Posted by kid908
Yeah. I mean, it could be about terrorist att- oh.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
It doesn't need to be cut since if you have even half a brain you'd realise what an idiot you're making of yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid908
Lol. So its ok to go to war, because we are helping harmless innocent children/people who would be killed or even worse, hurt! if we weren't there! Because of this, we should continue to stay and continue to do our good deeds down there, and care about them. Why? Because its more important to care about another countries health then your own. Especially when money is concerned! How dare we not!?
-basicly thats rossums statement.-
Did you somehow miss the whole 9/11 thing or what
*is an average modacity member*
*posts ridiculously ignorant statements about politics and the military, claiming to know great deals about both while in actual fact having no experience of either beyond playing dress-ups and highschool debate classes*
i'm a big moronQuote:
Originally Posted by IceCube
-basically thats icecubes statement.-
To the guy above me. Yes you are. :)
Yo, when you die. I hope your going to be missed. You did the government a good deed. You died, and helped decrease the amount of money the government would have to pay for you. :allears:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvbdyRMlPKkQuote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
classic example of 'idiotic retort made by uneducated child when they realise they're too thick to come back with an actual reply with some kind of substance'Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCube
thanks for playing
you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you'reyou'reyou'reyou'reQuote:
Originally Posted by IceCube
"you're" as in "you're a huge idiot"
note the pronoun used
you're
as inQuote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
it's you
*posts same youtube link over and over in lieu of intelligent comment*
*there's probably a good underlying reason for this*
Yes, shows proof. Not just talking.
yeah um call me retarded since my knowledge can't possibly compare to that of an uneducated civilian teenager but iraq and afghanistan are kinda not the same war just a pointer
who cares they're all in that big sandy area no one cares about -- IceCube, reading your posts, 2009Quote:
Originally Posted by rossmum
No. That's the war your defending. Don't tell me about the good deeds. That's what they did with global warming. "who cares, its just a few side effects". Here its, "Just half the military is so messed in the head they need a check up when they come back from seeing so much violence."
he was probably one of the people on the chaser who said iran should be bombed next, then pointed to australia
efb
by the way i'm not saying it's good i'm saying you're a fucking retard because you don't know what the reasons were and dumb people like you are the sorts who really fuck the troops over
nuke iraq they caused global warming, gotta just remove the source
Kolobus, if you want to post something on topic, please do so. Stop being an idiot.
icecube, was 9/11 an inside job?? i want to hear it from the master of intel himself
img-ironycatgrowingbigger.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by IceCube
I'm posting my opinion and thoughts on things. Your just trolling.
it was the zog i thought everyone knew thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Kolobus
you're a sheep man, a sheep
your opinions are so misinformed they could probably be considered trollingQuote:
Originally Posted by IceCube
Lol, why do you guys have to be so childish? Did I say something that might actually be the truth? If I did, you know, I might as well say it. Sorry. :(
no you basically insulted our intelligence by exposing us to your... 'opinions'Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCube
i haven't seen you post these words in this specific orderQuote:
Originally Posted by IceCube
"I'm a huge fucking retard."
so i haven't seen anything that, you know, might be the truth
holy fuck oh god
give me a minute to figure out what happened in this thread
Jesus christ fellas what the fuck happened here take a chill pill and relax, lotta a red to scroll through and that shits permanent. Think about it.
little more thinking and a lot less BOLD ITALICS AND SIZE text is greatly appreciated.