And another thing, honestly why keep lingering on past gen games anyways phase? Seriously, a good way to expand on your modelling skills is to move on to better things like source and such that can take the 9-10 thousand tricounts. You could damn near model all the battle damage into the thing with that much stuff to toss around, but it would take an experianced modeller to do so. I think it's good that Penguin can move on from the silly tricounts of halo 1. Realize that games coming out, the ones that penguin will most likely be part of developing, require the skill to make a detailed 7-8 thousand tri count object. And I don't want to hear none of that pussy texture shit. I read up just awhile ago on the crysis engine that it would be more worthwile to model the details on then use higher res textures, normal maps, etc. Believe it or not, those create lag too. Games are being geared towards higher tricounts. Embrace it.