Pardon Our (CMT's) Ignorance.

[Ifafudafi]

I miss CMT threads with more pictures and less fighting.

Don't know where you came from brah but I thought that CMT threads were all about fighting

Here's an idea: MAKE BOTH. Integrate OS so that 1.08 users can take advantage of it, but leave another cut version for those who aren't so up-to-date. Takes a little longer, but both sides get what they want.

[TVTyrant]

Have you seen the state of this community? It's a mess! I'm not sure how you can lose your place if you're a half-decent person and respect the rules and the people. Don't make me laugh. It'll "soil" the team's name just because some half-wits couldn't place a few extra files in the same folder as the maps? That's not ignorance, that's just downright laziness.

L2Ninja bra. I dont think, and I mostly agree with you. But Im saying maybe they feel that way. And Ifafudafi, I think thats what they're doing.

[Kornman00]

Each map file depends on the two shared map files and the two dlls. I think we can safely assume that a significant portion of the CE userbase downloads only from HaloMaps. That's five sequential downloads just to play the first level, as opposed to one, and it's more intimidating to the novice user than just putting a single file in a folder. Dennis isn't the only webmaster I know who has made similar comments on how easy it is for the average user to be put off.

Considering how jcap has refused to let this issue go, posted a whole new thread because he didn't like CMT's decision, and has taken many opportunities to insult members of the team, I'd say it's fair to call that harassment. Most everyone else has been perfectly fine, and I have no issue with them regardless of their stance on OS.

However, jcap would be more willing to put up hosting for the next CMT iteration if you guys used shared data files to store global sounds\bitmaps, so users wouldn't just be relying on HM and thus only on download at a time.

Jcap didn't let it go because of how Masters did a 360 on what he originally said.

I kinda don't like how he retracted his statement about using it, but it seemed to happen after I said I wouldn't upgrade the vehicle limit, but I gave a very real reason for not doing so, which is because of the object memory usage. If you guys didn't want to have crates which used physics, you probably wouldn't be having vehicle limit problems.

I do this stuff because its fun and I learn a few things and the tools will help people. I like to help people via this way, and I don't like to see a wasted opportunity but its not like I'm holding a gun to your head, I just wanted to see more people get on line with using 1.08 so the MP (my userbase of which I would like to see as many users in) community will thrive more.

[FireScythe]

It sounds like all this comes down to is people not having everything they need to play the mod whether it be 1.08, the right OS build or some missing dll, and to me with a mod this size it would be benificial to have a seperate installation purely for SPV2.

Now, I have no idea if any of this is possible and its probably all wishful thinking but having a seperate installation modded for CMT's needs would pretty much solve all the problems.

Everyone would have the same version of CE, you can include the dll for OS as well as OS itself and the people still on 1.04 can keep their outdated version for multiplayer.

Plus, doing it this way means that a Direct2U type update system can be used so that should bugs be found in OS or the game, they can be updated. As well as allowing future expansion with new OS features, and new content should CMT continue to make stuff after release.

Although this would'nt bring 1.04 players to 1.08 multiplayer, it was never meant to, and i'm sure there will be other ways to do that.

Thats my 1.2524 pence anyway.

[MetKiller Joe]

I feel like this will reach the same fate as Prometheus. Your fanbase is the community; I'd make it simple and just use a version everybody here would agree to. You can set up server passwords if you are worried about pirates.

[Arteen]

However, jcap would be more willing to put up hosting for the next CMT iteration if you guys used shared data files to store global sounds\bitmaps, so users wouldn't just be relying on HM and thus only on download at a time.

My issue with that is that CE is centered around HaloMaps. That's where nearly every user gets their maps. That includes the novice users and the average users who aren't as passionate or interested in this as we are. They're the ones who don't follow forums or YouTube or Moddb. Like Dennis said, it needs to be easy to play the maps, or we'll lose those people.

However, I don't have a problem with an OS version alongside the regular release. We can upload the regular release to HaloMaps, but in our release threads, we can also include OS versions for those who consider bandwidth or hard drive space to be an issue. That way, everyone's happy.

Jcap didn't let it go because of how Masters did a 360 on what he originally said.

The tl;dr version of my response is we didn't want to agree to use OS because we weren't sure we even needed it, but we felt too pressured to make a decision too soon. Sorry for the trouble.

Your fanbase is the community; I'd make it simple and just use a version everybody here would agree to.

Our audience is much more than these forums.

-----------------------------------------------

CMT has had a few concerns about using OS. Over time, some concerns have been addressed, some have become irrelevant, and some new concerns have surfaced. This is basically where everything stands right now.

OS will give us

• Smaller file sizes
• Delta UI

We still have these issues with OS

• Maps depend on two shared maps and two dlls. As Dennis stated, that will put off potential players.
• OS has not been extensively tested, and jcap's thread has shown a few cases of OS crashing the game.
• OS is incompatible with Xfire and other apps (it seems like bloom and version changer so far).
• We don't need it.

Anything significant I'm missing?

[PenGuin1362]

I don't see why an install app won't solve the issue of people not knowing where to put things >_>

[Kornman00]

The tl;dr version of my response is we didn't want to agree to use OS because we weren't sure we even needed it, but we felt too pressured to make a decision too soon. Sorry for the trouble.

-----------------------------------------------

CMT has had a few concerns about using OS. Over time, some concerns have been addressed, some have become irrelevant, and some new concerns have surfaced. This is basically where everything stands right now.

OS will give us

• Smaller file sizes
• Delta UI

We still have these issues with OS

• Maps depend on two shared maps and two dlls. As Dennis stated, that will put off potential players.
• OS has not been extensively tested, and jcap's thread has shown a few cases of OS crashing the game.
• OS is incompatible with Xfire and other apps (it seems like bloom and version changer so far).
• We don't need it.

Anything significant I'm missing?

Well, I hope I didn't come off as wanting an answer right-then-right-now-gogogogogogo-hurry up. After all it takes me time to actually write up the code. It's no trouble at all, its something that really should have been made anyway.

I believe that "second" dll problem (ie, dx3d9_##.dll or w/e) can easily be fixed, but its a fixe that has to be done after the Yelo dll is compiled (either way, the end user doesn't see it). You should note that those two shared data files are just based on the stock data files. Thus any original maps which are built from stock will still continue to run.
The above has the potential to put off players, but you're wanting to do a D2U system so I don't see how this is a factor since it will be installing the stuff for them

If I knew (and if anyone knows, with actual detail, please make yourself heard) how the Xfire DX hooks are done then I can possibly change the Yelo's DX wrapper code to not be affected. However, the game still checks itself for exe modifications last I checked, so I won't be modifying the game code to load a new dll. The things Yelo does now require that it is loaded before a certain few systems are initialized.

I'm not exactly sure why it would interfear with the "version changer". IIRC, I thought VC was for 1.07, so people could continue to use old hacks? I hope people aren't thinking they can just use VC to make OS load...

[jcap]

Also, to address that issue of it "breaking" bloom, that's because it overwrites that file. It, just like OS, is a hook. However, there are plans to allow for OS to load multiple hooks (as long as they don't conflict) to allow for different mods such as that.

And it's not incompatible with version changer. Don't make that up. It's not even legal anyway.

[Kornman00]

Turns out jcap had Shadow compiled a new d3dx9 dll, which he didn't realize he was building using a debug config. When building with a release config, that _##.dll ordeal doesn't factor in. I thought jcap was using the one from my original OS thread post.

So, back to only one dll again