Here's a New Development

[Chainsy]

THIS ISNT FREEDOM, THIS IS MADNESS!!!
THIS IS AMERICAAAA!!!!!!

[ICEE]

I find that ironic considering that the government has to declare the wars for its people, and the people have to declare the wars for their god. Not that I give a fuck about having wars... shit, it makes for great television and a whole lot of interesting stories.

I understand that governments have the obligation to protect its citizenry and people try to police their creed's moral boundaries, but just once I'd like someone to admit that they're completely full of shit and that their practical objective is really second banana to getting thier jollies out of the unfortunate consequences of war while they've got the opportunity and the comfort of being in a position that allows them to do so. Similarly to what I said just above.

Everyone feels it, everyone knows it, everyone accepts it, but no one talks about it. Now that's what I call being pretentious.

I am now on the "liking this kid" band wagon

[Dwood]

I am now on the "liking this kid" band wagon

Yeah... Just one thing about Rorsach's post, which at this point many will probably decide i'm just nitpicking.

When the founders of the government created the (Republic) the idea was that Congress would act as the will of the people as well as do what feels right. The only problem is that they probably never imagined this day and age when we literally could have at the very least half the population voting within a reasonable time period thanks to digitizing everything.

Now it's Congress does what it thinks is best for itself while the people are left to do what's best for the country. It doesn't matter what party. The only reason no one's changed the reason to the PEOPLE deciding their taxes and who to go to war with, is because no one is man enough to do it.

[Phopojijo]

I disagree with what you say, moderator with a terribly annoying to type name. I believe that socialism has a dulling effect on society's intellect. Part of being an intelligent human being is being able to support yourself, without the assistance of a higher power (referring to government). With socialism, the government takes a more active role in regulating the way we live. When (for any reason) that government is taken away, we are all left staring at the sky like snakes in a cage, waiting for master to throw us a mouse.

This is all just my theory of course. I just believe that all people should be self sufficient. It shouldn't take a government or a god to make us behave. But then I guess that's just being pretentious.

Point 1) My name is very fun to say... which actually is why I chose it.

Point 2) You are confused about what actual socialism is (at least used in the context of social programs...).

Socialism is not about regulating the way we live... it's about granting the fundamentals to determine how we wish to live to anyone and everyone.

Socialism isn't getting a cheque in the mail and doing as the government tells you... despite what the Cold War "taught" you... it's taking care of what can cause you to fail that's not your control... letting you succeed in what is your control.

Tomorrow's world's greatest writer could die today of cancer.
Tomorrow's world's greatest surgeon could be too far in debt to go to medschool.
Tomorrow's world's greatest physicist could have slipped through the cracks at school.

The path to getting the most innovation in the world is paved with diversity in opinions and intellectual styles. In fact higher education and quality of life *increases* active participation... not numbs it. What numbs it is believing that your potential in life is less than what it is simply because you were not given the education, health, or financial ability to reach your personal potential.

... it also prevents the private sector for imposing its own regulations upon you... and those people you simply cannot vote out of office.

[ICEE]

I don't believe that it works that way, as nice as it may sound. For the greatest surgeon of tomorrow to succeed, he has to want to succeed, and to make himself do it. without strong evidence that he is going to follow through and do what it takes to achieve his potential, I don't believe my tax dollars should go to helping him. The fact of the matter is that people are lazy. What makes them change their ways is competition, the chance to be better than someone else. It may be an ugly, spiteful truth, but it is the truth. What qualifies our being "better" than someone else in this society is money. If the surgeon of tomorrow has not got the bright future of making ridiculous amounts of cash, why should he strive for that future? At our most basic level, this is how humankind thinks. Its simple economics. Of course, there is always going to be the backlash. The writer of tomorrow may not be able to scrounge up the cash to pay the surgeon of tomorrow's hefty bill to remove his cancer, and for this type of instance I suppose some moderate government program may be acceptable, but for the most part I do not believe that socialistic methods are ever going to be the best course.

[Phopojijo]

... and the people who will be lazy will settle into the sloppy seconds jobs and will have done so according to no influence other than their own.

Giving everyone the tools to succeed means that everyone will need to be more competitive to get into the "successful" jobs...

... there are two differences:

1) The people who "fail" deserve to have failed.
2) There's infrastructure for people to succeed in non-conventional ways... paving the way for new business models or even industries that otherwise wouldn't exist.

[ICEE]

This debate could rage on into oblivion I suppose. I think I will stop now though, there really is no point. If there was ever a way for one person to quell another person's opinions with their own, I think humanity would have found it by now. I tip my cap to a well formed arguement

[CN3089]

I agree, the democrats are too far right for me


the republicans are just insane


~i got opinions~

[Bodzilla]

Point 1) My name is very fun to say... which actually is why I chose it.

Point 2) You are confused about what actual socialism is (at least used in the context of social programs...).

Socialism is not about regulating the way we live... it's about granting the fundamentals to determine how we wish to live to anyone and everyone.

Socialism isn't getting a cheque in the mail and doing as the government tells you... despite what the Cold War "taught" you... it's taking care of what can cause you to fail that's not your control... letting you succeed in what is your control.

Tomorrow's world's greatest writer could die today of cancer.
Tomorrow's world's greatest surgeon could be too far in debt to go to medschool.
Tomorrow's world's greatest physicist could have slipped through the cracks at school.

The path to getting the most innovation in the world is paved with diversity in opinions and intellectual styles. In fact higher education and quality of life *increases* active participation... not numbs it. What numbs it is believing that your potential in life is less than what it is simply because you were not given the education, health, or financial ability to reach your personal potential.

... it also prevents the private sector for imposing its own regulations upon you... and those people you simply cannot vote out of office.

you know i'd consider turning gay for you if you ask me.
Take not of this post kiddies because after the fiasco of socialism and all that crap that was spouted during the last election This is some information you seriously need to pick up.

The crap they said about socialism is on par with the shit they said about Obama being a terrorist with links to terrorist ORGANISATIONS AND HE"S GUNNA BLOW UP THE WORLD, and all that other curtain walled crap they pulled.

[Dwood]

Socialism allows those who do no work never to feel the pang of not doing the work, and it makes it harder for those who DO do the work to actually succeed.

It doesn't give people the chance to succeed any more than regular capitalism. In fact, if you look at Canada and Britain (Socialist) to America (Capitalist) you will see that America has more people have succeeded than anywhere else in the world. It's just simple facts.

A motivated person is going to succeed no matter what. It's all in the mindset of the person.

Oh, and I can't convince you about Socialism unless I can convince you that Human Nature is such that we are lazy at heart. You can't convince ICEE that Socialism is best unless you can convince him that people won't take advantage of being able to be lazy.