Wikileaks Collateral Murder Video

[Phopojijo]

Look around 03m45s in the video, there's an obviously long tube shaped object that could be ID'ed as an RPG from that far away. You need to note that the pilots/gunners in question don't have video that's better quality than what we've got here, this video is also zoomed in, the gunners and pilots would have trouble seeing it any better with the naked eye. Yes I noted the two guys with cameras fairly easily, there were at least three other people with weapon shaped objects on their persons as well.

These Apaches were well within their rights to initiate the attack, it's easy for us to sit here and pick their shit apart from behind our computer monitors, but when you're over there it's either you or them. I don't know about you guys but I'd rather take the safe side and attack anyone that could possibly be threatening to me or my allies now or in the future.

There was one disturbing quote just after that, though --

"Yeah we had a guy shooting -- and now he's behind the building"

No-one fired a shot... since they didn't have any guns. What was he talking about?

[mech]

Was a huge fan of the cloaked rpg's they had.

[Cortexian]

There was one disturbing quote just after that, though --

"Yeah we had a guy shooting -- and now he's behind the building"

No-one fired a shot... since they didn't have any guns. What was he talking about?

A pilot and gunner inside an Apache cannot hear ground-based gunfire, all they can rely on is what they see through their various digital imagery devices and their own eyes. They could have mistaken sun glinting off a camera lens or other reflective object for gunfire and as the previous soldier that was quoted noted, these guys were most-definitely under lots of stress at the time. For the people taking offense to the comments made by the Apache crew and/or ground column, YOU need to realize that soldiers need to say things about situations you'll never experience in order to keep themselves sane. The joking and congratulations on killing other people isn't because they enjoy it, it's so that they don't consciously acknowledge what they're doing, killing another human for whatever reason. It's a coping mechanism.

Was a huge fan of the cloaked rpg's they had.

Shut your mouth until you go to war and do a better job. Thanks!

[mech]

I'm at war everyday, constantly having guns pointed at me and taking direct fire. Too bad I can't see them.

[CN3089]

hey guys let's justify blatant war crimes because SUPPORT ARE TROOPS


heh, remember in the video when the gunner is literally begging for permission to murder the father carrying his kids to school who stopped to help a wounded journalist who was just strafed by a gunship for no reason at all?




good times, good times

[paladin]

You guys think that this is some random act. The apaches came after the ground forces came under fire.

The U.S. military said the helicopter attack, in which nine other people were killed, occurred after security forces came under fire.

article
They had permission to fire. It sucks that innocent people die. Collateral damage. Also, people shouldn't bring their kids into active military zones. Yeah 'its their country' blah blah blah, but if shit was going down in Seattle, I wouldn't gop strolling down the street with my nephew. iirc, this happened in 2007 get over it.

July 12, 2007.

On a side note. The journalist know full well that going into an active military zone is risking their life. Regardless who killed them, they knew the risks.

[Cortexian]

You guys still aren't getting it, and it's a damn shame that you won't get it unless you become an actual member of your Forces... When you're in a helo like that you have to rely on sub-par visuals to identify threats unless you're right the hell on top of them, when you're in an active combat zone you do everything you can to protect yourself and your friendlies. I would still take this stance if I personally saw some soldiers engage targets at range that appeared to be armed, only to have been holding other objects. It's no different than Police firing at and killing kids wielding toy guns that look realistic.

Here's an example of what I mean when I say "you do what you can to protect yourself and your friendlies/allies": I was talking to an active member of the CF that had recently come back from Afghanistan, we ended up talking about roadblocks and the procedures involved. He stated that the CF standard operating procedure dictated that if a person or vehicle keeps coming towards the roadblock, you shoot a warning shot in front of them, and if they STILL continue towards you you shoot THEM. However he said that when they were in a known military "hot zone" or combat area, they would simply shoot whoever or whatever was coming towards them if they didn't stop after the initial warnings and then shoot another shot off just so that "two shots are heard and cover our ass if any questions are brought up". Why do they do this? Well you tell me if you'd rather get blown up or ripped apart by shrapnel because you listened to the SOP in a known hot zone.



In regards to journalists knowing what they're going into, that's absolutely correct, and these guys were native to the area from my understanding so they knew better than anyone. However, lots of Forces have been pushing to outlaw civilian journalists into active combat areas for quite a few years now. The Canadian Forces have Imagery Technicians for a reason, it's so that we can send in properly trained SOLDIERS that are primarily there to capture photos or record video that the media can use. They're not some off-hand trained group of soldiers either, they go through Basic Military Qualification just like the majority of the rest of the Canadian Forces.

All the members in our Forces are "Soldiers First" and then specialize in whatever else after the fact.



@InnerGoat: Blatant war crimes? If it were a blatant war crime this thread, the Collateral Murder website, and all related material wouldn't be under debate right now. This is OBVIOUSLY not a blatant war crime.



Oh by the way guys, the media organization in question has had history with embedding their reporters, journalists, and photographers in with insurgent groups in order to get the "true story". There are also a couple of people that DO appear to be carrying some type of assault rifles, these were one of two things, insurgents or private security forces. Private security forces are always at risk of coming under fire from troops in a situation like this.

[CN3089]

actually it is and you're a sociopath who justifies mass murder and casual violations of international law because ARE TROOPS

07:36 Picking up the wounded?
07:38 Yeah, we're trying to get permission to engage.
07:41 Come on, let us shoot!

" why do they hate us what did we ever do to them "



well, cya

[SiriusTexra]

Haha wow. Just when the Pentagon was trying to take out wikileaks, they unleash this gem.

Actually, they were probably saving this one for a rainy day.

[Cortexian]

InnerGoat, if you're trolling a situation like this I'm just sorry for you.

You don't have all the information on this situation, neither do I. However these Apaches were called in because the ground column that shows up later in the video was taking fire from insurgents. The Apaches arrive on station and note people that definitely have weapons (I'm 100% positive that I saw at least one rifle and one RPG) and are moving in the direction of the ground column that called for support.

I guess you'd just rather sit in your chopper and wait for some possible insurgents to kill another brother in arms on the ground before you engage and ensure their safety? You make me sick. SOP dictates that anyone entering a combat zone like the van and its occupants to assist potential hostile forces are hostile themselves, you're telling me that you'd rather let insurgents run in, collect more firearms that could be used to kill you and yours, and run off again with a potential wounded insurgent who's only going to be patched up to possible kill you in the future? Get out.



I'm sure that if we had all the information, and not just the biased and censored information from BOTH sides (the Military and WikiLeaks) we'd find that the situation called for the Apaches to engage. If I were a gunner in that Apache, I would have engaged, as would you, or any one else on this forum. Stop picking this shit apart when you have no fucking idea what was going down, or what state of mind the involved servicemen were in.



P.S. You guys are sitting here saying "don't pilots/gunners need good vision", and you're telling me you didn't see ANY potential weapons? Pay attention to the guys around the photographers and journalists.