Modacity shooters' thread

[Warsaw]

No, but it has the SAME width as the Kurz, and the problem is with the math imo. When you have a case of .378 base width (I mean rim), 10 of these cartridges become 3.78 inches and 30 are about 12 inches. Now, we use staggered double stack magazines so let's say its a 7 inch magazine. Not too bad. But when you have 30 .473 width cartridges you have almost fifteen inches of magazine size, probably a 10 inch mag, and the weight of the shells and weapon when loaded goes up considerably. You have to reduce to a 20 round mag to be useful, and while that's not that big of a deal why would you carry 20 when you could carry 30? The whole point of an automatic weapon is to have the ability to suppress a target, and 20 is not enough imo.

Here is a link to a .473 diameter magazine comparison. Unfortunately the afterimage is saved to the internet indefinitely, but the picture itself is not:

http://images.google.com/imgres?q=30...1t:429,r:0,s:0

As far as the 6.8 thing, it has a .422 base which is the same as the 30-30 (not rim width, base width). That's about ideal imo because its not teeny like the 5.56 but its not fat as fuck like the .280. At least its not a WSM lol.

Also: Troy industries ftw. Too bad thats like 2000 bucks or something WITHOUT the M1A.

But doctrine has everybody firing semi-automatic anyways, so having 30 rounds instead of 20 is hardly an advantage. The only time it's an advantage is when navigating corridors in houses, at which point, if you are doing it a lot, you should honestly be using something shorter than your standard-issue M16.

The real issue is that 5.56 has no punch, and all these suggestions we are throwing around do. You have to make a trade somewhere, and ten rounds in exchange for the ability to blast through cover is, to me, worth it. I wouldn't worry about .280, though, because it's not going to come back. It was just a very good first generation mid-powered cartridge. I'd say go for 6.5 Grendel because it has more advantages than 6.8 SPC does for the same number of shortcomings. And no, weird rim-size not being to your fancy is not a legitimate argument, sorry.

[Cortexian]

I still think everyone should just be issued some ridiculous rounds like .338-378!

[TVTyrant]

But doctrine has everybody firing semi-automatic anyways, so having 30 rounds instead of 20 is hardly an advantage. The only time it's an advantage is when navigating corridors in houses, at which point, if you are doing it a lot, you should honestly be using something shorter than your standard-issue M16.

The real issue is that 5.56 has no punch, and all these suggestions we are throwing around do. You have to make a trade somewhere, and ten rounds in exchange for the ability to blast through cover is, to me, worth it. I wouldn't worry about .280, though, because it's not going to come back. It was just a very good first generation mid-powered cartridge. I'd say go for 6.5 Grendel because it has more advantages than 6.8 SPC does for the same number of shortcomings. And no, weird rim-size not being to your fancy is not a legitimate argument, sorry.

Well if I were manufacturing rifles and ammo it might.

Also my opinion when not counting rim size etc. is that the 6.5 is a better round for a marksman than for a fighting man. Up close and personal the 6.8 delivers more energy from a wider diameter projectile. Using match tip (aka hollow point) ammo that has become the fancy for use against "insurgents", it hits harder at close range. While I agree that at 600 yards+ the Grendel is awesome, I don't see it as being as useful up close. My other concern is that, while the bolt face of the ar-15 will take the Grendel, that the mags for it would be weird because its a Xx39 case blown out. There are no magazines devised specifically for its case shape. The SPC has very similar angles to that of the 5.56 which gives it an advantage in magazine work

Also I just don't like the Grendel for some reason, so ^ is probably all just random shit that means nothing. It just doesn't excite me in any way.

Also .378 Weatherby should be the Humvee machine gun cartridge lol.

[Warsaw]

You can use Grendel in STANAG magazines though. You can fit ~25 in 30 round magazine.

The US soldiers typically do their shooting from as far away as they can, which makes 6.5 favourable. I agree that 6.8 transfers more energy to the target, but it's not such a huge difference that it's worth sacrificing long range performance over. We're talking a difference of 0.3mm here, not quite the same thing as 7.62 vs. 5.56. You'd have to custom load a 6.8mm SPC to get the same distance performance.

I think we need to make an SMG firing .50 Action Express...

[TVTyrant]

Mostly the 50 AE SMG.

Also how about the 260 Remington for everything except what the 50 AE SMG does?

[Cortexian]

Pfft, every weapon in NATO should just be swapped out to the 50 AE SMG, vehicle and aircraft mounted versions can just have extended barrels. Snipers can also have extended barrels.

Intercompatibility ftw.

[TVTyrant]

Fire one cartridge for every weapon lol.

What is this WW2?

[Warsaw]

WWII had like, five cartridges for four weapons.

M3 could be found in 9mm and .45.

M1 Carbine was in .30 Carbine.

M1 Garand was in .30-06

M2HB was in .50 BMG.

7.62 NATO and 5.56 were supposed to make it such that all infantry weapons fired the same thing. That means MG, Marksman, and Rifleman all use the same cartridge. In practice, it hasn't worked out so far. We have marksmen using anything from 5.56mm , to .338, to .50 BMG. Machine guns are found in both 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO, as well as .50 BMG on mounted guns. Riflemen mostly use 5.56, but there are some with more exotic cartridges like 6.8mm SPC and some even using 4.6mm in the MP7.

Yeah. Crazy logistics.

.50 AE would be awesome, just use longer bullets for rifles.

[TVTyrant]

30-06 was used in the M1 Rifle (most common infantry rifle), M1919 machine gun (most common light machinegun), BAR (most common auto rifle), M1903 Springfield (sniper rifle), M1917 Enfield (was issued to artillery men).

Pretty damn good if you ask me.

[Cortexian]

Don't forget whatever round the P90 fires, I forget what it is since it's basically proprietary. IIRC many aircrews, armored crew, and security forces use the P90 in different NATO forces.

Also keep in mind that they were trying to standardize magazines as well as cartridges. That way the guy behind you can grab a mag or two off pouches you've got on your back if they run out. This also hasn't worked out well since 7.62 magazines vary a lot, STANAG is like the only decent standard. P90's, MP7's, and other SMG's all have proprietary magazines...

IMO Magpul should get their PDW-R platform on the market. NATO should adopt it as the standard issue SMG since it uses existing STANAG magazines and 5.56 cartridges. Then they should replace 5.56 and 7.62 NATO rifles with something less terrible.