Modacity shooters' thread

[Warsaw]

additionally a 20rd mag that is reliable and holds a good round like .280 is no real disadvantage imo. remember that infantry rifles are, especially in western doctrine, meant to be used for aimed fire in semiautomatic or, at most, short bursts. the auto is just there as a panic switch, even in room clearing it doesn't get a whole lot of use. with that said, burst fire is literally the goddamn dumbest thing on the face of the earth in every case except one, being the an-94. either have full auto or have no capacity for automatic fire at all.

Well, Ross? I'm not talking about range-queens either. I'm talking about aimed fire by a number of trained fighting men shooting at targets any distance away in a combat zone. That includes inside a house. A pistol grip is no more or less functional than a traditional grip for semi-automatic fire. Period.

I'm not trying to argue that traditional is better, I'm just saying that pistol grips aren't. Most military fighting men (in the US, look at the age range) today grew up with the AR-15 and thinking that modern guns are the coolest shit ever, and so they've not been exposed to much else. It's not about comfort, it's just about what they know. They are also die-hards and think just about any gun that ISN'T the AR-15 is inferior. And I know more than a few fighting men from many branches.

Also, I'd like to know what exactly you're referring to when you say traditional stocks can't do what you do with your AUG in the brush. I've done my share of crawling around in mud during airsoft games (yeah, can't compare to the real thing, but crawling is crawling), and I've done what amounts to the airsoft analogue of urban combat. About the only things I can come up with are one-handed shooting and blind fire.

I think you are forgetting that we've fought myriad wars with traditional stocks, and, for at least two of the major ones, pistol grips were available. It's not that one is that much better, it's just the times. Attaching a plastic grip onto a metal box is easier and cheaper than carving out an entire stock just for the grip.

E: And you may want to have that panic switch, but you don't get to use it. Why? Because collateral, that's why. Mantra of the age is "avoid collateral at all cost."

EE: Also, HUD option is nice, but never leave out the manual/mechanical option. I hate this move towards everything electronics. Stuff these days is not shielded adequately, so all it would take is one EMP and boom, all your shit is nigh useless.

[rossmum]

For one you can't keep your rifle pointed towards the enemy while crawling, which might fly over there but doesn't here. You can no longer keep your rifle pointed towards the enemy while carrying a wounded man, while carrying a piece of equipment, while getting up or getting down on your guts, while doing pretty much fucking anything we train for. At all fucking times, the rifle is pointed towards the enemy and ready to fire in a pinch. Having a rifle in one hand while using the other is something that comes up CONSTANTLY as infantry and not being able to keep your weapon ready for action during that time is an immense handicap.

At the end of the day, crawling around in airsoft is not even close to comparable to doing actual legit infantry stuff as trained by a modern army and I find it fucking perplexing at the highest level how you can assume that because you have no issues doing it in an airsoft game, pistol grips are pointless. Automatic fire is and always has been an option, I am not an American and therefore I am trusted with a weapon that can fire more than three rounds in sequence with a single trigger pull. If your military doesn't place the same trust on its soldiers then that's a shame, but ours does, since we are trained in only using it when necessary (which is a situation that does present itself) rather than hosing bullets at everything all the time. Please do not ever presume to know anything about my job when the extent of your CV is "played some airsoft games in the woods". By the way, Australian bush is not nice forest like you have in North America, it is literally a non-stop wall of thick, springy vegetation interspersed with trees. It is difficult enough to traverse on foot, let alone on foot with pack and rifle. Until you have come here and conducted a passable section attack in 40-degree heat and bush so thick you can't see the man in front of you, kindly don't tell me how I only want pistol grips because I've been conditioned to believe that the AR-15 (which we don't even use and haven't since the 80s) is superior to all else.

The depth of your ignorance fucking astounds me. This would be like me coming in and berating you on how you don't need a modern rifle to hunt, you should use a Roman fucking ballista instead.

e/ Seriously please try and perform any kind of room clearance whatsoever with a traditionally stocked rifle and upload the results, I really need a laugh

e2/ Also notice how once pistol grips became a more widely-accepted thing on rifles (because people stopped giving a shit about looks and went for pure practicality), they took over. How you could attribute this to some silly fad, and then bring the AR into it when that 'fad' predated it by over a decade, is beyond me. Do you honestly believe we would not be using traditional stocks if they had not been rendered obsolete along with the full-power rifle cartridge in 1943? When the MkB.42 hit, the writing was on the wall; short, pistol-gripped rifles firing intermediate cartridges were just utterly superior in combat in every way. The only country slow to embrace the pistol grip was, big fucking shock incoming, the US. I could hazard a guess it was probably something to do with crusty old desk jockey officers, maybe even the same batch who resisted gas ports over gas traps.

[TVTyrant]

By the way, Australian bush is not nice forest like you have in North America, it is literally a non-stop wall of thick, springy vegetation interspersed with trees. It is difficult enough to traverse on foot, let alone on foot with pack and rifle

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You should try doing anything in the Pacific Northwest. Shit takes the cake. Everything is vertical. The ground is pete moss and it comes apart under your feet. The blackberries grow so thick you have to have a machete at all times. The trees are all clumped together. Almost everything has thorns. Its ridiculous, and impossible to hunt.

[rossmum]

It sounds almost like here, except it doesn't literally explode when it catches fire and it's not jam packed with the world's most venomous snakes and spiders.

[TVTyrant]

It sounds almost like here, except it doesn't literally explode when it catches fire and it's not jam packed with the world's most venomous snakes and spiders.

Yeah its a little bit safer than that lol. Sucks for you, living in a warm climate. As a consolation though, its ALWAYS FUCKING RAINING.

FUCKING ALWAYS

LIKE NOAHS FUCKING ARK SHIT

ALL THE FUCKING TIME

It is impossible to enjoy being out in the woods when its always wet. I swear to God I had trench foot during hunting season this year.

[rossmum]

Anything is better than here, fuck this place

[PenGuin1362]

I thought you were back in Canada? also fuck Australia and your weird mother fucking animals/bugs. Also today was the first time I ever saw this:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2528431/WIP/tkb-011_ref.jpg

funky lookin as hell, but still kind of awesome. Russian prototype from 1960 apparently

[TVTyrant]

I thought you were back in Canada? also fuck Australia and your weird mother fucking animals/bugs. Also today was the first time I ever saw this:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2528431/WIP/tkb-011_ref.jpg

funky lookin as hell, but still kind of awesome. Russian prototype from 1960 apparently

Wooden bullpup

[PenGuin1362]

I think it's bakelite

[Cortexian]

That gun doesn't make sense. If its using AK mags that have to rock into place it would be next to impossible to fit the magazine since the pistol-grip is in the way.

Other than that it's pretty awesome.

@Ross: You should also know that Canada (specifically out around the mountains and mountain rivers) also has some pretty impassable terrain. Being that we have muskeg fucking everywhere that will swallow you, your vehicle, and the rest of the people behind you all the way up and you'll never bee seen from again. Not to mention that its cold, really fucking cold.