Modacity shooters' thread

[Boba]

really wish this thread would be renamed modacity military thread because while I don't know much about small arms, vehicles are my bread and butter

vehicle of the day: t-80u and it's derivatives (aka you're not going to learn anything from pictures of major models)







it's okay oplot you can come too




i still love you BE, i will never forget u <3





everyone has seen this already BE, but i still think u look good



the day that i start seeing modern T-80Us instead of T-90s games will be the day everything will be right in the world

i don't care what they say about you T-80U, ur still my fave~

[rossmum]

The T-80U owns fucking bones and is a one-tank counterargument to "AMERICAN TANKS ARE BETTER"

If you want to see it in games, get Wargame: European Escalation. It's one of the most expensive units in the game so they're more of an endgame thing, but they are exactly as good as they should be (as is the T-64BV). They will take on an inordinate number of Pattons and still win.

[TVTyrant]

Image dump is making my computer slow down :|

Also, isn't the T-80 already out of date?

[TVTyrant]

The T-80U owns fucking bones and is a one-tank counterargument to "AMERICAN TANKS ARE BETTER"

If you want to see it in games, get Wargame: European Escalation. It's one of the most expensive units in the game so they're more of an endgame thing, but they are exactly as good as they should be (as is the T-64BV). They will take on an inordinate number of Pattons and still win.

The thing is, that tanks like the T-80 aren't very common. The Russian tank force is mostly comprised of T-72s, which we and the Brits have repeatedly wiped off the desert map all over the world.

[rossmum]

Image dump is making my computer slow down :|

Also, isn't the T-80 already out of date?

In the same way the Abrams is, sure

The thing is, that tanks like the T-80 aren't very common. The Russian tank force is mostly comprised of T-72s, which we and the Brits have repeatedly wiped off the desert map all over the world.

No, what you and the Brits wiped out were monkey models. The US has never, ever come up against bona-fide Soviet or Russian military equipment, only de-fanged exports missing most of their advanced systems and usually fucked up by whichever third-world or dictatorial shithole bought them. It is a very stupid hole to fall into passing Russian tech off as 'junk' because Abrams tanks killed a bunch of downgraded early-model T-72s crewed by incompetent Iraqis.

As for their rarity, yes, we all know that the T-80 was a special tank used by important or prestigious units. 'Rare tank' for the Soviet union is rather a lot different than 'rare tank' for NATO, though, and you should remember that. The T-72 was the bulk of the Soviet Army's tank force, and we know that the T-72 was not a particularly impressive tank versus an Abrams or Challenger. That is because it was intended to be a cheap, expendable hunter-killer that could fill out numbers while the real boys - the T-80s and T-64s - took on the hard stuff. The T-72 is not an inherently bad tank and most of the rumours about it being a deathtrap are little more than that, started by Westerners to try and turn the T-72 into a paper dragon when it is a real threat. Its gun is good, it is extremely smalll and difficult to spot, and there are a damn lot of them. I guarantee you that if the Fulda Gap had gone down, regardless of the final outcome, it would have gone very badly for NATO. Never, ever underestimate a potential enemy. Always assume their tech is better than yours, and prepare accordingly.

As it is, the T-72 is easily disabled by knocking out its autoloader (as manual loading is only possible by hand-cranking the autoloader and takes over a minute per round), and when its ammo rack goes up, it goes up big. While it is still moving and still has an operational gun, though, it is a big problem for anyone. Remember that for every decent NATO tank, there would be several T-72s. They become a lot more scary when you stop applying the stupid 1-on-1 philosophy people have used since ancient times to make their enemies look inferior - see how well that worked out for the Germans, on both fronts.

[TVTyrant]

In the same way the Abrams is, sure

Yeah, the Abrams IS outdated though. No missile defense, the computers suck etc. Needs a huge overhaul.

[rossmum]

Haha, not according to most people. Ask them what the best tank in the world is and it's always either the Leo or (almost always, when asking Americans) the M1. The Challenger II doesn't even get a look in despite empirically being the best protected tank on the planet, and with excellent armament and mobility. People will laugh off the T-90 (remember, it's an upgraded T-72), though it can sit hull-down firing ATGMs all day and laughing it up as nobody can spot the damn thing. The reality is that current warfare is forcing sidegrades in our armour development, not upgrades. Worries about ATGMs and even the humble RPG have resulted in all kinds of research going into reactive armour and active countermeasures while very little thought goes into what happens when your enemy actually has tanks of their own. It should be real interesting if two serious military powers ever do go to war, conventionally.

[TVTyrant]

Haha, not according to most people. Ask them what the best tank in the world is and it's always either the Leo or (almost always, when asking Americans) the M1. The Challenger II doesn't even get a look in despite empirically being the best protected tank on the planet, and with excellent armament and mobility. People will laugh off the T-90 (remember, it's an upgraded T-72), though it can sit hull-down firing ATGMs all day and laughing it up as nobody can spot the damn thing. The reality is that current warfare is forcing sidegrades in our armour development, not upgrades. Worries about ATGMs and even the humble RPG have resulted in all kinds of research going into reactive armour and active countermeasures while very little thought goes into what happens when your enemy actually has tanks of their own. It should be real interesting if two serious military powers ever do go to war, conventionally.

That's the thing, is that will probably never happen. If it does it will be the Americans or the Russians vs. the Chinks. And in that situation, either the 1A or 1B military would lose because we can't keep up with China in terms of production and size of conscripted military.

[FreedomFighter7]

Yes that would be interesting! I think however governments and militaries only prepare for immediate threats. Its a total waste of money to build an army of tanks to fight, who? Someone with another army of tanks? That same rationality permeats everything, the reason Katrina did so much damage was everyone knew it was possible, but no one did anything until the shit hit the fan. They don't prepare for something until they know they've got a problem, which makes sense, but sometimes you don't have the time to counter it. I know that during an arms race the defense spending would skyrocket, but normal times it is just a waste. That's the reason the stealth bomber has been retired, the soviet union is no longer in a cold war with the US and its allies, therefore there is no need for a stealth bomber. But the US does have nuclear capabilities, as everyone knows, as a deterrent.

I've also heard Russia has somewhere on the order of 100,000 cold war era tanks still in service?

I know something, those russian engineers are damn smart when it comes to military weaponry. During the cold war, when everyone realized the most likely threat of an ICBM attack on the US from Russia was over the North Pole, the Us built three lines of radar stations through canada. By the time they were completed, Russia had ICBM's that came from the complete opposite direction, over the south pole. Just fricking ingenious.

EDIT: TV, the US has tons of nukes however.

[TVTyrant]

I think, for the sake of convo, we are leaving out nukes. Since China has plenty and no one outside of insane christians/commies/muslims want to see that happen.