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[Donut]

dark halo did you watch that montage? almost every kill he either had a friend to distract the guy he was shooting, the enemy was spraying all over the place, he caught the enemy guy off guard, or he got a "reload this" medal on a guy coming out of combat. most of the kills he got were from him knowing how to move around, and im not faulting him for that. that video was a terrible way to defend the plasma repeater. go play invasion. tell me the repeater works better than the dmr. not saying it doesnt have its uses, but that video hardly convinces me that ill get kills if i take a repeater against a dmr at anything outside melee range.

i just wrote a bit about this in a paper on game balance: halo 1's weapon set is so enjoyable because theres not duplicates of weapons (eg: battle rifle and carbine, needle rifle and dmr), and while every weapon has a role it works best in, they can almost all be used effectively in other roles. the very best example is the shotgun. in halo 1 the shotgun is deadly up close, and effective at medium range. the damage from far away is negligible, BUT ITS THERE. in halo 2 and on, the shotgun is deadly like 80% of the time in close range, and at medium range its damage is non-existent, as if the pellets literally disappear.

as for your argument on the halo 1 pistol being a starting weapon, look at halo 2's starters: smg and magnum. look at halo 3's starter: assault rifle. your chances of getting any real kills are low until you manage to get a BR of your own. in halo 1, yes the rape cannon is a spawn weapon. take pooky's example on blood gulch: a red guy makes his way to blue, gets on top of blue base, and starts spawn killing blue with the rape cannon pistol. blues spawn with the pistol too, so they can fight back. put that situation in halo 2, and now you have a bunch of people throwing negligent damage at the red guy from magnums and smgs, and the only reason they kill the guy is because enough of them managed to widdle down his shields and health.

so to bring this back full circle, halo 3's is unbalanced because its OVER BALANCED. instead of giving weapons a loose role like halo 1, but making them effective outside of that role, weapons in halo 3, and reach to an extent, are rigidly constrained to that one role. not to mention that theres more of them. would anybody have been upset if maps just stuck to either the battle rifle or the carbine as the precision weapon in halo 3 instead of using both?

side note: the flaming is not helping anybody's argument. the whole "terrible player" thing is a straight up fucking insult. attack the argument, not the person making it.

[DarkHalo003]

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If you feel the further need to continue this please PM me or something, this is making the thread stale.

Agreed. I hate grouping people like that, but it's just whenever the game is finally close to being balanced out and perfect, it ends up being fucked up in a different place. For example, like Warlord said, the Pistol nerfs the AR now.

[Kornman00]

So, uh, how does this update work? I looked in the custom game settings and I can't find any new features? Have I not updated properly? Is it megalo hooking so we can't use it ect?

They've just added some more developer options to the megalo data (read: game variants). These new options/settings won't be something you can tweak with the game.

The only megalo options that are ever editable from the variant options screen are a select set of exposed user options, which reflect the underlying megalo script's execution. Every game variant defines all the UI data needed for the game to create an editor for the user options, which is how they're able to do the "<variant-name> options" menu.

[Futzy]

The only place you are currently able to see is in the Zero Bloom Slayer gametype.

That and future gametypes will be available on the Waypoint fileshare http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/De...oWaypoint&sg=0

[Champ]

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EDIT: In fact that player is rather good with the repeater, I wouldn't mind playing a game or two with him on a good map like Severs.

EDIT 2: I guess I'm one of those bitchy Halo 1/Halo 2 profags you keep mentioning. Don't worry I'll be doing just that and staying in the classic playlist so I don't have to listen to your incoherent babble. If you feel the further need to continue this please PM me or something, this is making the thread stale.

Why do you keep saying he must be bad player? You were terrible at Halo CE...

[Pooky]

Hoo boy, I don't even know where to begin with this clusterfuck.

Are you really saying that what has happened is in any way appropriate to what "problems" were "plaguing" Reach?
I didn't think anyone could be this stupid but you've just proved me wrong.
you really are stupid if you think the current changes are in any way a good thing, the needle rifle can now hit anyone in the map no matter the distance and kill them which removes the beam rifle and sniper rifles range and the magnum completely destroys the assault rifle even if the person with the assault rifle has a few seconds head start.

I must say, I am glad these changes are not going to be universal, the changes that have been made have just made the entire trigger spam an even worse issue.

The pistol is better the way it is now. It doesn't need a nerf. Other weapons need a buff. Trigger spam isn't and never was a problem with Halo, it's a symptom. But I'll elaborate on that further down. I can't comment on the DMR or NR on long distance maps since we didn't play any of those. But long distance maps were already horrible in Reach due to the hitscan, infinite range DMR and retarded vehicle damage system so who cares.

Maybe you should actually read my post where I said the DMR/NR should get a base accuracy penalty to compensate for the lack of bloom. Since you continue to ignore my actual argument and flame me over things I never even said, I'll quote myself for at least the 20th time on this subject.

Spoilered for the benefit of people who actually can read and don't need things recited over and over again.

The difference between the Pistol and the DMR is where the Pistol has a clearly limited maximum range, the DMR does not (within the bounds of any of the official maps). Also while the Pistol requires actual aim to use at close range, with the DMR you can just spam and follow up with an auto aiming super lunging homing melee attack.

This is my complaint with the DMR/NR. The DMR's retarded range prevents open maps from having any sort of flow, while its spammability up close makes it not only obnoxious but less skilled to use compared to previous mid-range weapons in the series. Note that 'spam' doesn't have to mean firing as fast as possible. Just firing slightly faster than normal is enough to make it annoying. A lot of Reach proponents claim to hate the BR from Halo 3. Imagine how much more obnoxious it would be with unlimited range and the ability to fire FASTER at close range.

My theoretical list of changes to the DMR/NR would be

1. Lock both of them in at their slowest accurate ROF

2. Change the spread to be a constant, slightly smaller than the size of the DMR reticule itself (or in other words, about as much as the Halo 2 BR)

3. Put a hard cap on the range, a distance about 2/3 of the way across hemorrhage

4. Remove increasing bloom

edit:5. Perhaps add back ballistics to the bullet weapons as well. I dunno what Bungie was thinking, but Halo 1, 2, and 3 got by just fine without resorting to Quake 1 era hit detection methods.

Basically like a slightly toned down H1 pistol, or a mix between the Pistol and Battle Rifle

Halo 1 had everyone starting with an uber-3sk-god-pistol that took no skill to use.

If you actually believe that, you're probably better off with Reach. I don't think I need to repeat things that have already been explained hundreds of times over.



Alright then,

Now that I've had some time to think about the games we played, I think I understand why it was so much more fun with zero bloom. It's not necessarily because of the accuracy of the killing, it's because of the speed of the killing. That's what Reach and to a lesser extent Halo 3 are missing.

Think back to Halo 1. Remember how fast you could kill someone with 3 shots from the Pistol? Now think Halo: Reach. Notice how it takes WAY longer to kill someone with DMR headshots. The inability to swiftly take out enemies means every engagement is drawn out and leaves ample opportunity for outside interference. One of the most frustrating aspects of Reach multiplayer is that it's so often impossible to engage a given enemy and take him out before having another enemy come up behind you.

Going back to Halo 1 again, in that game I would often take on a large group of enemies by myself without hesitation. On maps like Damnation I'd just weave my way through, taking out enemies gracefully and efficiently with every move. In Reach I wouldn't dream of taking on more than 2 enemies by myself without vastly superior equipment.

The Pistol may have been harsh, but it was fair. Everyone spawned with it, and the sheer speed with which you could take out enemies (especially when combined with grenades) is what gave a lone player a fighting chance against multiple enemies. Since you didn't have to spend so much time pumping shots into a single opponent, you could use smart tactics to get out of any situation.

In fact, now that I think of it, I realize that this has been nearly the entire problem with Halo multiplayer ever since 3. As we've already discussed in Halo 3 Bungie nerfed the damage of everything so dramatically that the Battle Rifle, the general purpose weapon of the game, was nearly as effective as any other weapon in any given situation. That's what lead to the perception of it being overpowered, when really it wasn't. It was underpowered. The whole game was underpowered.

With this realization also comes one that 343 and their title update have an opportunity to change Halo multiplayer for the better for the first time in years. As before, I'll be very interested to see what happens when Anniversary multiplayer comes along.

[DarkHalo003]

Yeah Pooky, it's totally opposite for me in Halo Reach. I run in with an AR and take on at least groups of two. I guess that's just how the games end up playing for me.

[Pooky]

Yeah Pooky, it's totally opposite for me in Halo Reach. I run in with an AR and take on at least groups of two. I guess that's just how the games end up playing for me.

Keep in mind that trueskill rankings still exist and are in full effect, they're just not visible. The game gets dumber the more you win and move up. Not trying to be rude, but I sincerely doubt you've taken on a group of 3 intelligent players by yourself with just the AR and won (on standard Slayer settings).

[t3h m00kz]

I do have to say I look forward to the gametypes. A game being capable of such a different feel is a good thing.

[Champ]

Going back to Halo 1 again, in that game I would often take on a large group of enemies by myself without hesitation. On maps like Damnation I'd just weave my way through, taking out enemies gracefully and efficiently with every move. In Reach I wouldn't dream of taking on more than 2 enemies by myself without vastly superior equipment.

Do you have any other names? Because I don't remember a "Pooky" being good at Halo 1.