CMT, Tagspace, tagslots, script space, and version numbers.

[Masterz1337]

It has nothing to do with Zteam. I never even gave that a consideration. His work would benefit you more than anyone else, which is why you're retarded for not taking the opportunity. Maybe he will still release something, but it wouldn't be as effective as if it was released with your mod. It would be about as widespread as the Yelo release was. Not many outside of this forum had knowledge of it. If that was a super-significant update that people started taking advantage of to make maps (like hijacking), then not many would know of it.So if it's not this mod we make OS dependable, maybe it will actually be MP maps, which in turn would be an even bigger success due to the widespread amount of people who played SPV2 on 1.04 and then will HAVE to play 1.08 if they want MPV3. Even if we made SPV2 use OS, you don't even know if people will start playing 1.08. You admitted that you think the majority of 1.04 players who turned their back on 1.08. They have no reason to play 1.08 when not playing the single player maps then, unless other people take advantage and want to make their maps OS dependable. And seeing as how people here think the only "quality" maps come out of here, and nothing ever does get released here, they have no reason to play

It's not like it would actually break anything; it would only help. As from what I know, it's still in development and it's not even close to too late to change what you just implemented. Hell, it would even take some stress off of trying to cram everything in to make sure it all fits in the limits.No, it wouldn't break anything, but these boundries have been important in actually allowing us to get this project done. If not, we'd just be adding more and have to consider every little idea we are suggested.


So many problems with this idiotic argument. First, it would have absolutely no influence on 1.04 players. Second, it doesn't check for updates automatically (that's in the settings menu, and as we know from my research which you confirmed, they upgrade before downgrading because they are douchebags). Third, it doesn't take advantage of OS because there is simply no reason to. Hell, maybe I'll make it 1.08 only for shits and giggles to piss you and them off. I don't care if it doesn't reach the faggots of 1.04; they don't count. .

...Or you can release SPv2 for 1.08. Sounds to me like that's an even better start.
I think you misunderstand what I'm getting at, there are plenty of people who play haloce on older versions, but haven't updated. The cause? UI maps that don't check for updates, and many of those people are probably unaware of a newer version. If they download delta, which DOES check for updates, you can get a bunch of people to come to 1.08 that way

Response in bold.

[BobtheGreatII]

I think you misunderstand what I'm getting at, there are plenty of people who play haloce on older versions, but haven't updated. The cause? UI maps that don't check for updates, and many of those people are probably unaware of a newer version. If they download delta, which DOES check for updates, you can get a bunch of people to come to 1.08 that way

This, do this.

It would even shut up a lot of people.

[Choking Victim]

Response in bold.

Have you even checked with the other team members before shooting korn's offer down? If teh_lag disagrees (one of the cornerstone members of CMT) then what does everyone else think?

[Masterz1337]

You're being too stubborn. I think we could benefit a lot more than you're making it out to be from lifted limits on tagspace, slots, scripts, and all that. As much as we've added, we've also had to cut an assload of things because of them; no they're not NECESSARY, but they're the little things that are nice to have. Stuff like...

-The A10 Hangar cutscene.
-The Maw Legendary cutscene.
-Vehicle damage debris.
-Marine corpses/allies in C40.
-Scorpion in B40 (just the other day we were talking about how to cut down its size to fit it in).
-Fancy boarding anims.
-Weapons in all the levels; I don't believe that you can honestly say it wouldn't be nice to not have to worry about cutting weapons out so the map will work.

More times than I can count you and I have talked about ways to shave a few more tags or a little more space off of... just about every level. I don't like making those cuts and I'm sure you don't either. I just don't see wider distribution and ease of access as a good enough reason to pass up not having to deal with this.

Not to mention all the tag finessing I've had to do on our last few additions (for example, the wraiths using a single coll and anim tag) so we won't have to worry about these problems happening to them. Our tagset will only grow from now until release and we're going to have to cut out more and more stuff to get it to fit in. Not to mention that mapsize is getting to be its own problem. It's going to get worse as we finish our content and the "extra" stuff like skins for previously untextured things get added in.

I'd rather leave people in the dark (which isn't even permanent, given that all they need to do is update the game and place a .dll in their folder) than lower the quality of our mod for something that can be worked around.

Most of those little things are things we can't put back regardless, such as the hanger bay cutscene. The legendary cutscene we could put back, but it's pointless and the other games have retconned. The vehicle debris is hardly something anyone misses, and if we were to add it back in with no limits we might as well make all new banged up pieces of debris. For C40, we don't even have room anywhere to add marine help (by room I mean areas of BSP that would be good for those fights, although I suppose we could just keep adding more and more bsps.) The scorpion, hog, and sparrow, I got all into b40, even though now it's really packed to the lid, there's nothing else we need to add. We can easily do more fancy baording moves, we already discussed removing the passenger seat anims for the cyborg, since there's no co-op, and marines won't stay on the side of the tanks (which never made sense anyway, who sits on a metal monster that's going to be having everything shot on it) and we can simply remove those marine anims. It would be nice to not worry about having to cut weapons, but that's hardly an issue. If it weren't for having the limitations, we wouldn't have the introduction of weapons and vehicles planned out like we do now, compared to spv1 and how it was before when we just smothered the player with every little thing we could.

I don't find the cutting and tag shaving to be hurting the mod at all, I actually find half the fun in working on it finding ways around these challenges. You know as well as I that the only reason this project is finally coming to a close is because of these limits, and if we did use OS, would we ever be able to say that we're happy with the mod and that there's nothing we can do to make it better? One thing we've always done well is found a way to make the next thing we add better than the last, and with unlimited space, we both know that we're never going to stop. We're all ready to move onto the next thing, but that's never going to happen if we use OS.

[Hunter]

Wont korn making an OS mod be an advantage to the entire community? If everyone gets the OS update, I am sure the word will be spreaded around, and knowning kids they will be like. "omg godz, i want 2 kik sum1 of bansheez, n nukes!" Which OS would help?

So anyone who mods Halo:CE could use the new OS features?

[Timo]

Wait, so we can't have marines with rocket launchers on the sides of our tanks anymore?

[ICEE]

Though I admittedly didnt read all of the longposts in the last few pages, it seems to me that theres a few bolts missing in some of the viewpoints here.

• Is this tag space / tag slot expansion really possible and reliable?
• What problems could this expansion theoretically cause?
• How long will the testing and refining of the expansion take? Isn't CMT sort of on a time budget here? I thought that they had established a deadline before they were done working on this project due to the fact that they're tired of working on it.

These factors should all effect the out come of the decision. However I don't see why anyone should care about whether or not they update the game.

[Masterz1337]

What sacrifice are you making? He offered to make the update, and said it would be fairly simple to do so. Are you aware of the concept of giving? The reason I'm not upset with kornman is because he's provided a framework for us to use, I don't expect anything more after that. The reason I'm upset with you is because you declined a perfectly relevant and usable offer to bypass something that has plagued you since the start of the mod. This has nothing to do with our team's members.

Have you even checked with the other team members before shooting korn's offer down? If teh_lag disagrees (one of the cornerstone members of CMT) then what does everyone else think?

What sacrifice are we making? It's the fact that we want to be DONE with the project, and all you guys want is for us to prolong it and keep working on it using OS so you can all have fun on 1.08.

So you're upset with me because I don't want to make my job easier on something I don't even consider that much of a problem, yet earlier you complained that Kornman should use his knowledge to update OS so other people could use it for their projects. He offered to make the update as long as we met his DEMAND that we make it exclusively for 1.08. If it's so simple then why he going to only release it if we do spv2 exclusively for 1.08. If we want to use it, everyone gets it, if we don't want to use it no one gets it. Does that sound right to you? That people should be punished by our actions?

I don't consider the game restrictions to be something we've struggled with, if anything it has made our project more fun and better (performance wise too).

[Kornman00]

I can't believe what I'm reading here, it's like you're blackmailing us.
Lame.

If CMT were to use it I would have motivation for actively developing the subsystem for OS. However, Masters said he wouldn't even if I did so I have no real motivation to develop it anytime soon. Sure other people can benefit from such a system, but they can benefit from being paid to develop mods too, just as I could benefit from being paid to do the things I do in my free time.

EDIT: not to give Masters more reasons not to, but this of course not make the mod transferable to the xbox (unless ran under a devkit). But then again, I doubt the xbox would be able to run this mod as-is ;x

[Masterz1337]

Wont korn making an OS mod be an advantage to the entire community? If everyone gets the OS update, I am sure the word will be spreaded around, and knowning kids they will be like. "omg godz, i want 2 kik sum1 of bansheez, n nukes!" Which OS would help?

So anyone who mods Halo:CE could use the new OS features?

He's only making the OS update if we promise to use it on SPV2.