America: Land of the Free and Home of the Bull Shit.

[sleepy1212]

Because you started it with your 'hard' working family. Doh. You just couldn't keep your 'tough' past out of this thread..

I don't know your family but how many times I have heard those terms 'hard work, good education and honest living'. They don't mean nothing compared to other countries. Go down to Mexico and learn what it is like to have a hard living, value work and foremost still maintain an honest living.

US Population: 307,006,550; homeless: 1,400,000; rate 0.00465

Australia: 21,431,800; 105,000; 0.00489

Germany: 82,110,097; 591,000; 0.00719

Canada: 33,311,400; 150,000-300,000; 0.00450-0.00900

*all from first page of google results

It's nice to have company in 100-years-ago-land. Especially when your still the best.

[Mass]

No they learn the opposite and enter into the idea that in order to provide they must group up under someone and work under them in order to make a living. In fact, the major things that college does teach you is that money does matter and it's in all parts of our lives. Try paying for it?

Though I find your (sometimes excruciating) cynicism perfectly reasonable, and I'd like you to know that I've read your selected pieces (well, the one I hadn't read before.) I have to disagree that higher education is malignant indoctrination across the board. (I'm afraid primary and secondary can tell a whole 'nother story) I will concede that for the most part the only people who are really taught to think critically and objectively about the world are those who pursue the liberal arts, and they are of course absent from places of power in a laughably transparent manner.

It's interesting you bring up paying for college as part of why it is a broken system for the purposes of nurturing true intelligence vs the currently dominant skill of system savvy, because I couldn't agree more. The vast cost of an education in the United States means that students here are often left looking at something that should be a rite of passage into mature cognitive abilities solely as a career investment... but what choice is there?

When I talk about "quality of life" which you seem to be confused about, I'm not talking financially, but rather about cultural capital. Because I honestly believe that somebody like a tradesman will have a better life if he can access an affordable liberal arts education. He will read more, think more, and raise more intelligent children. His more complete opinions, dialog, and comprehension of world affairs will be a blessing to everyone close to him, particularly if they were to be similarly educated. The underlying fear being these are the exact kind of people who look at historical examples and then serve to organize labor or opinion; the simple fact that lobbying strength is in reality quite distinct from respective funding being enough to mobilize entrenched interests against this sort of thing. Of course, others would argue (more openly) that this would be inefficient waste, training people to do something they probably won't be paid for, and to them I would point out that college for all is a societal investment which guarantees returns in personal happiness and needed scrutiny, whereas college as a risky personal investment can undermine what should be some of the most important lessons for those lucky enough to attend. Clearly from some of the posts I've read in here there are some who will be rather aghast at this proposal... but their base anti-intellectualism is so severe I cannot afford to care...

[Bodzilla]

US Population: 307,006,550; homeless: 1,400,000; rate 0.00465

Australia: 21,431,800; 105,000; 0.00489

Germany: 82,110,097; 591,000; 0.00719

Canada: 33,311,400; 150,000-300,000; 0.00450-0.00900

*all from first page of google results

It's nice to have company in 100-years-ago-land. Especially when your still the best.

Didn't you guys say that it doesn't matter where your born into, hard working is the only thing that determines success?

[ICEE]

Jesus fucking christ guys, to make a claim that either hard work or your origin is the end all be all decider of where/how you'll end up is just fucking lunacy. Obviously if you're from a well off family you have a better chance at success. Many people even have financial success prepared for them from the moment they're born (its easy to piss this away and end up a failure anyways). Does this damn the poor man to being poor forever? Maybe, but maybe not. Hard work is damn well necessary for success no matter who you are. does hard work guarantee success? Fuck. No. There are so many other factors, and sometimes, you're just fucked. Is this the fault of the nation? I think not. The only crime America has committed (that is relevant to this conversation) is making fucking promises. We are no different than any other country, we have our class gradient and our success gradient, and it is not possible for everyone to be happy (by the stereotypical american definition of happiness). This is the morbid truth for ANY civilization.

Does making these promises make us bad people? Does our nation's self promoted image reflect the attitudes of the actual citizens? No and no.

America is seriously a 100 years behind.

And your countries are so great right? Its fair to say that we are all "behind" in different aspects. Hows that censorship coming there, bod? Crash, I do not know who you are or where you're from, but I'd be incredibly surprised to hear that you have no gripes with your own country. In fact, that would be a ridiculous display of nationalism.

if you think that which family your born into doesn't affect your health, opportunity's, income and success, through your life.... well your deluded.
simple as that tbh.

I'd like to take this time to say that no one on this forum, and likely no one in the media you have access to is an adequate representation of their nation. If you're judging my country based on Paladin's statements, keep in mind that it isn't just non-americans who think he's full of shit.







TLDR: Shut the fuck up. Everyone on earth is wrong. The only difference is that some are more wrong than others.

[Aerowyn]

This is almost the complete opposite of what America stands for. You can become anything you want to be regaurdless of race, class, or creed. Look at our President. He grew up in a poor black family, got scholarships to prestigious Ivy League schools, became a young senator dispite many challenges, and became the youngest and first black president.

For a minute there it sounded like you actually LIKED Obama. That would've been the surprise of the decade.

[paladin]

I like Obama, just not his polices

[DarkHalo003]

Stop dogging the homeless as morons and scum of the earth. There are actually people who want to be homeless, people who have found answers outside of the luxuries we have. There are homeless who even are more scholarly than most undergraduates. So what does this mean? Research your homeless before you start blaring it's a horrid thing; stereotypes only lead to stupidity and horrible answers. Oh and misinterpreting statements is also a smart thing not to do.

With the homeless issue discussed and out of the way, I just want to say that the United States is probably ONE of the greatest Countries (along side Britain and Japan tbqh) to live in on the planet. Why is that? The U.S. gives you a choice on how to live your life in anyway you want it (exceptions include obvious laws people) without traditions and cultures butting in to literally destroy your life. I'm not saying other countries don't have this aspect, but screwing up in India on certain issues that you could normally withstand in America will get you potentially killed. Or worse. People take the freedoms that countries like the U.S. offer for granted and that honestly makes me sick. DESPITE THE POLITICAL BULLCRAP AND THE FAILING WORLD ECONOMY, I think the U.S. is an okay place.

[Bodzilla]

dark halo.

you have got to be fucking joking.

i mean seriously
that is the dumbest thing i've ever seen and i've seen glen beck throwing frogs into boiling water.

[ICEE]

Stop dogging the homeless as morons and scum of the earth. There are actually people who want to be homeless, people who have found answers outside of the luxuries we have. There are homeless who even are more scholarly than most undergraduates. So what does this mean? Research your homeless before you start blaring it's a horrid thing; stereotypes only lead to stupidity and horrible answers. Oh and misinterpreting statements is also a smart thing not to do.

With the homeless issue discussed and out of the way, I just want to say that the United States is probably the greatest Country (along side Britain and Japan tbqh) to live in on the planet. Why is that? You figure it out. I'll just put it simple, the U.S. gives you a choice on how to live your life in anyway you want it (exceptions include obvious laws people) without traditions and cultures butting in to literally destroy your life. I'm not saying other countries don't have this aspect, but screwing up in India on certain issues that you could normally withstand in America will get you potentially killed. Or worse. People take the freedoms that countries like the U.S. offer for granted and that honestly makes me sick.

This is fiction.

[Dwood]

Though I find your (sometimes excruciating) cynicism perfectly reasonable, and I'd like you to know that I've read your selected pieces (well, the one I hadn't read before.) I have to disagree that higher education is malignant indoctrination across the board. (I'm afraid primary and secondary can tell a whole 'nother story) I will concede that for the most part the only people who are really taught to think critically and objectively about the world are those who pursue the liberal arts, and they are of course absent from places of power in a laughably transparent manner.

Exactly. The only people who are told to think for themselves are the ones that want to go into art or business... even then that's stretching it because the professors and books still tell them what to think.

It's interesting you bring up paying for college as part of why it is a broken system for the purposes of nurturing true intelligence vs the currently dominant skill of system savvy, because I couldn't agree more. The vast cost of an education in the United States means that students here are often left looking at something that should be a rite of passage into mature cognitive abilities solely as a career investment... but what choice is there?

My vote goes into removing the ability of the federal government to own/give out/subsidize student loans- stdnt loans from the gvt. means that the government will give it to the students at low rates and more flexibility however it also means that the colleges can raise rates indefinitely without much of a hit to their student population on a yearly basis... making student loans non-government operated (however, still regulated) would probably drop college rates across the board 5-20% (don't quote me on that) because since no one is going to the college, they have to lower rates to get more people to come.

When I talk about "quality of life" which you seem to be confused about, I'm not talking financially, but rather about cultural capital. Because I honestly believe that somebody like a tradesman will have a better life if he can access an affordable liberal arts education. He will read more, think more, and raise more intelligent children. His more complete opinions, dialog, and comprehension of world affairs will be a blessing to everyone close to him, particularly if they were to be similarly educated. The underlying fear being these are the exact kind of people who look at historical examples and then serve to organize labor or opinion; the simple fact that lobbying strength is in reality quite distinct from respective funding being enough to mobilize entrenched interests against this sort of thing. Of course, others would argue (more openly) that this would be inefficient waste, training people to do something they probably won't be paid for, and to them I would point out that college for all is a societal investment which guarantees returns in personal happiness and needed scrutiny, whereas college as a risky personal investment can undermine what should be some of the most important lessons for those lucky enough to attend. Clearly from some of the posts I've read in here there are some who will be rather aghast at this proposal... but their base anti-intellectualism is so severe I cannot afford to care...

If I operated under your definition of "Quality of Life" or at least argued with that definition in mind, then I would say that people can get an open mind and learn fiscal responsibility, learn things about the way things work (around the house, cars, pipes, whatever as long as it can be valuable, in any fashion, monetary or otherwise) would not requires college- It seems that in order to maintain and have that kind of a quality of life you think that it requires a college education, which I assure you, it does not. I have taught myself (what little I know) programming. With my grandpa who was a pilot, I am within 10 hrs and a written test of a license. I go to the bookstore and I see all these "DIY" manuals for electronics, making T.V.s, plumbing diy, etc etc. The information is out there to get a "High" quality of life, in your definition (I agree wholly with your definition and may be using it instead of mine?), without having to go to college.

I suppose at this point it is upon the parents to teach their children how to learn on their own without having to worry about getting a grade for it or paying top dollar for it.

At the end of the day, if a person really had to, and they had the skills for it, they could get a job without having a degree. Degrees might get you an inch further in the door of an employer but it's the person's ability to do the stuff the employer needs done that gets and keeps the job. Same thing with Art- I could grab some art books and paint/sketch and what have you 6 hours a day, then if my stuff was good enough, it could get me a job.

I remember someone once told me something to this effect "Back in the day, College taught you valuable stuff you would do for the rest of your life. Now all a degree shows is that you are willing to do stuff you don't really want to do."

<Blabbered, may not even have hit the point I was trying to reaffirm>