A simple question.

[et_cg]

If you ask me, it's Microsofts and Hired Guns ability to keep us from creating custom content. If they remove the scenery, they remove the problem. If they remove the shaders, they increase time for people to think Nitrous' maps are the best.

[et_cg]

As always, the community got owned at the bat.

[Zeph]

I fail to see how Windows Live would cause the removal of source material to build off of. As I mentioned, I can partially understand locking the toolset, as some maps could make it easier to get acheivments, etc. However, giving us so little scenery, or removing shaders that are referenced in the Help File, or providing very limited backgound sound... That I don't understand. Maps need atmosphere and mood, and we don't have enough content given to us to have a really big variation.

Just take a look at CE. Mods were developed to the point of conversions with external applications playing an integral role, such as z-targeting for Zelda CE. Putting a limitation on it for something like like is a great way to keep any exploitations for the Live service. There's no alternative provided for wide area multiplay other than the Live service. Lets say you were able to create custom single player maps. You could create a simple box level and give it the same name as the classic maps. That right there breaks the achievement system for campaigns. Lets say you make a custom biped, you could make the whole model register as a head shot. That breaks the Live multiplayer achievements. Things like that are just the tip of the iceberg for things that would make the obsessive compulsive people working on Live overdose on advil. Honestly, I dont know if there are any OCD people at Live, but they have offered gamerscore based contests in the past. Any future ones would be endangered by H2V if the EK was open and integrated with Live.

Really, I get where you're comming from about things like sounds and such, but meh I see where they're comming from.

[Roostervier]

Just take a look at CE. Mods were developed to the point of conversions with external applications playing an integral role, such as z-targeting for Zelda CE. Putting a limitation on it for something like like is a great way to keep any exploitations for the Live service. There's no alternative provided for wide area multiplay other than the Live service. Lets say you were able to create custom single player maps. You could create a simple box level and give it the same name as the classic maps. That right there breaks the achievement system for campaigns. Lets say you make a custom biped, you could make the whole model register as a head shot. That breaks the Live multiplayer achievements. Things like that are just the tip of the iceberg for things that would make the obsessive compulsive people working on Live overdose on advil. Honestly, I dont know if there are any OCD people at Live, but they have offered gamerscore based contests in the past. Any future ones would be endangered by H2V if the EK was open and integrated with Live.

Really, I get where you're comming from about things like sounds and such, but meh I see where they're comming from.

We understand your point on things like a custom biped, etc. But what we are saying we don't understand is why they didn't just, at the least, give us a complete Multiplayer tagset. That is what doesn't make sense. If those tags in the tagset are used in all of the other mp maps, how is it possible to "cheat" for achievements? So, if they don't let us make our own custom objects, then they could at the very least provide us with the "Live-able" ones.

[Oxygen]

they give us an editing kit and tell us to make maps. we go to make maps and we realise we have no tags to work with. we go to make tags, and we realize we've got a locked editing kit. :wtc:

we obviously got the shaft.

...although, sometimes i wonder if possibly they just accidently left it out and they'll just put up a d/l once the game is officially released(wishful thinking).

but who can we complain to that would make a difference?

meanwhile, ima go have a chat with Mr. Bill Gates...


=Oxy

[Syuusuke]

Say hi to him for me...and start complainin.

[DaneO'Roo]

Good thing I can paint my own textures :win:


You bring up an excellent point, Lag. This bullshit is just coming 1 after the other. How are we supposed to make maps, when they're all going to look the same and use the same stuff?

[Pooky]

I fail to see how Windows Live would cause the removal of source material to build off of. As I mentioned, I can partially understand locking the toolset, as some maps could make it easier to get acheivments, etc. However, giving us so little scenery, or removing shaders that are referenced in the Help File, or providing very limited backgound sound... That I don't understand. Maps need atmosphere and mood, and we don't have enough content given to us to have a really big variation.

You know, that doesn't really make all that much sense, cause you could still make a map and populate it with nothing but snipers and stickies and get those achievements really easily

[Snaver]

You could also just create a gametype with snipers.. It's only achievements geez, if they did limit the EK for this reason, it was a stupid reason to..

[Zeph]

You know, that doesn't really make all that much sense, cause you could still make a map and populate it with nothing but snipers and stickies and get those achievements really easily

By their perspective, at least you would still have to aim for their head. And how is this different from a snipers gametype which already exsists?

But what we are saying we don't understand is why they didn't just, at the least, give us a complete Multiplayer tagset. That is what doesn't make sense.

As I said, I see why you're griping, but I see where they're coming from. I haven't bought H2V, and wont until it's well below 30 USD, so I cant go digging through the tags, editing kit, etc. and try to deduce the specific guesses. Without actually having it, and using what I know the best I can offer is there was/is a problem with getting the things you're asking for to be pulled from various shared caches and mandates for Live concerning file size.