A simple question.

[et_cg]

Okay, I know our senseless whining and disqust for this new way of making maps won't stop. But let's try to look at it from a more optomistic aspect.

They might release tags, not the ability to create them. A tagset, would be nice.

They might be a little nicer to us if they go forum digging any time soon.

We might get along if we just make maps and use instanced geometry in the mean time.

As for now, I gear towards creating an open set of shader templates coupled with bitmap examples. But my resources at the moment are low, and real examples are not very good.

I'm just creating boxes and testing surfaces with all the shader templates I can get to work.

[Pooky]

By their perspective, at least you would still have to aim for their head. And how is this different from a snipers gametype which already exsists?

Snipers was just an example. Okay, think of the killtacular achievements. Suppose I make a boxmap loaded ass full of frags and play on no shields. I just got more killtaculars than any Xbox player ever dreamed of. This isn't going to stop people from exploiting the map maker.

[DaneO'Roo]

The one thing we ALL wanted from the very start of even HEARING about halo 2 PC, was "creating awesome maps, utilising halo 2's engine with an awesome map maker". But instead, we got something we never thought we were getting, nor did we want. Achievements. Why give us something we weren't asking for, and severely fuck up the one thing we DID want? I really see no logical explanation.

[Pooky]

You know what's awesome. H2V is such a bad port that Gearbox's porting job is now eulogized in high and glowing reference. THAT's failure.

[redsteven]

Achievements are such a complete waste, ESPECIALLY multiplayer achievements. It's so easy just to get a friend to let you kill him 30 times in a row for achievement points, or get 3 guys to stand still while you get a triple kill cause you "want the achievement".

What's the point of them? I can think of no reason other than TRYING to make a system that in some tiny way represents skill, but... it just doesn't work like that at all.
And on the topic of achievements... you get the same achievement for beating a lvl on normal as you do for beating it on legendary. Idk... it just pissed me off. I don't really care about the points, its just that it seems so OBVIOUS to me that you should have a few separate achievements for legendary, like completing the levels.

[ejburke]

Honestly, I don't buy the Achievements theory. They're so trivial, lame, and easy to acquire within a wekk of playing, that nobody should HAVE to cheat to get them. And if they were so concerned, they could have easily disabled them for custom content.

The real reason is Microsoft, as usual, looking out for number one. They wanted to be able to put that "map editor" bullet point on the box to get us rubes to buy a game we already own a second time, but beyond the bare minumum of that requirement, they didn't want to pay to document, test, or support anything else. Things that weren't required, but would have made the community happy fell under a scorched earth policy.

I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Halo Custom Edition had to be a seperate, unsupported game because of Microsoft's cheap bastardly ways. If Gearbox hadn't stepped up and shouldered the burden themselves, the HEK would have turned out eerily similar to the H2EK. That is, if it ever would have come out at all.

Say what you want about Gearbox, but I felt like they had our back. Ultimately, they couldn't stop MS from screwing us over, but they fought for us. I don't feel the same way about Hired Gun. I don't think we're even n Bungie's radar. And while Pi Studios obviously cares, they're much smaller than Gearbox and have other projects.

We're on our own, guys. I would be absolutely shocked if we got any assistance at all from any developer that has the power to make our lives easier. There's just not enough money in it for them, or at least that's how the short-sighted suits at Microsoft -- the same guys that won't let Epic release free Gears of War content -- perceive it.

[Oxygen]

it's sad, really. games used to be about having a good time and all...now it's all just about the money. no one cares about the players or the communities, it's all about "how can we fit as little as possible in for the highest price?" no one is going to stick up for us, weather we like it or not. o well...


=Oxy

[Pooky]

Say what you want about Gearbox, but I felt like they had our back. Ultimately, they couldn't stop MS from screwing us over, but they fought for us. I don't feel the same way about Hired Gun. I don't think we're even n Bungie's radar. And while Pi Studios obviously cares, they're much smaller than Gearbox and have other projects.

I agree Gearbox did pretty good with the community, I just don't think they did as good a job as we would have liked of porting Halo

[teh lag]

I've been giving this alot of thought lately. While looking at Nitro's map, Earth City, I noticed a few things.

1. It uses a sky we were not given and cannot replicate.
2. It uses scenery that we were not given.(The various cars and fire emitters)
3. It uses shaders that we were not given.(The human metropolis metals.)

Conclusion : These are things that quite plainley do not affect any sort of "traditional gameplay," or the map would not have been allowed to be released. We simply have been given a toolset that discourages map creation beyond a very strictly set guide. It also seems that the devs (for whatever reason) are not allowed to discuss the subject of missing content or tool functions - I have noticed a trend of them suddenly abandoning a topic after those subjects are brought up. (Anyone wants to disprove me here, you;re more than welcome.) As ejburke accurately put it, we're on our own, and there's not much we can do about it. I have some hope that maybe we'll get a Gbx-esque unsupported full EK, but it's probably just clinging onto a sinking ship's mast. I suppose we should just make the best of what we have, which isn't much above the first months of CE. Hell, even then we had a humane selection of scenery.

[et_cg]

I've been giving this alot of thought lately. While looking at Nitro's map, Earth City, I noticed a few things.

1. It uses a sky we were not given and cannot replicate.
2. It uses scenery that we were not given.(The various cars and fire emitters)
3. It uses shaders that we were not given.(The human metropolis metals.)

Conclusion : These are things that quite plainley do not affect any sort of "traditional gameplay," or the map would not have been allowed to be released. We simply have been given a toolset that discourages map creation beyond a very strictly set guide. It also seems that the devs (for whatever reason) are not allowed to discuss the subject of missing content or tool functions - I have noticed a trend of them suddenly abandoning a topic after those subjects are brought up. (Anyone wants to disprove me here, you;re more than welcome.) As ejburke accurately put it, we're on our own, and there's not much we can do about it. I have some hope that maybe we'll get a Gbx-esque unsupported full EK, but it's probably just clinging onto a sinking ship's mast. I suppose we should just make the best of what we have, which isn't much above the first months of CE. Hell, even then we had a humane selection of scenery.

If you read much of my posts, I deffinately clarify that. Post, after post, after pos....

I think you get the idea.