:lmao:
Cookie to these two men.
E: woo 201th page.
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i only remembered BB's name cause thats the first name listed and im not good at names...
@snaf, i see your reluctance with releasing the apparition as chances are it'd end up in shitty BG mods becuase its CMT, but like I said it has alot of potential as a light support vehicle on decent maps...
anyways, the idea of a one level demo for v1 people is a good idea that CMT should take into consideration, as they would be giving something from SP v2 for the pirates, but since the fll thing would be 1.08, they'd have to go out and buy the actual game to experience the full thing
pirates become legit owners, corporations make money, more people come to CE...everyone wins, except the pirates that stick to 1.00...they lose
If people don't like it they can shut up or make another thread about it which I won't read.
I refuse to shut up. You're killing my favorite moments in the game, one by one. First AOTCR, and now this. :sob:
uhh whats wrong with it? I know the novels say its a desert, but its CMT
You're crying over a desert? *looks at the monitor with shock*
The community just got over OS and you're bitching about a desert?
On topic: Cannot wait for this now.
Also, the sky in the top left is fucked
lmao, you're pathetic
Way to kill Halo again :haw:
Looks just as shitty as it did the first time around.
It's funny how you flaunt it as if it's an improvement. Joke.
Oh well...what else should someone expect from you?
And you can continue on your ego trip, while everyone with sense of reason continues to hate you.
Yeah, there was, and it was decided that this "new" look was stupid. This cutscene is one of the best in Halo. The update was retarded then, and it's just as retarded now (much like Masters).
Please keep comments constructive. Your rules say so.
We can also enforce the rules to our own discretion. What is also against the rules is backseat moderation.
My comments are plenty constructive. They tell it how it is.
I think Jcap and masters need to put locked in a room and let them get all that frustration out.
This getting pretty stupid...
I like the new D40 scene it is always nice to see a little change though it would be interesting to see what it would look like in winter with snow and/or ice.
Suck his dick some more, guys.
I don't see anyone sucking up to him all i see is you two looking at each other as if you want to rape each other, your acting like a old married couple.:mech3:
On another note, i mean whta i said about seeing different enviroments for levels its a god dane'd artificial construct and artificial weathere are bound to be glitches once in a while for different weather patterns....
We can always remove that line anyway.
well to defend and attack boths sides let me say this:
Jcap's side: while I agree with you that it looks shitty and it sorta looks like it crashed on a beach somewhere on halo, which ruins the whole "the pillar of autumn crashed on on a deserted platoe 150 meters upspin"
might as well change it to "lulz, the autumn crashed on a beach to get some sun"
for masterz:..well shit man, i couldn't think of a viable argument...sorry
I never found anything too special in the Maw's opening cutscene. Enlighten me. Pretty boring to be honest. However, I don't care whether it's a desert plateau or a fucking grassy plain.
It's staying. It looked nice before, and it looks nice now.
It needs more rainbows and unicorns.
Well it would make sense if cortana mentioned the location of POA. And it wouldnt be in the opening cutscene cause that would be rather dumb to have cortana mention it when they crash into a wall.. [Sarcasm]"Oh hey, dawg,We are going to a desert. Just saying if i forgot to mention it before" [/Sarcasm]
Ah, Well no big deal.
Well if you're dumb enough to keep it, the least you could do is improve on it rather than swapping out the sky and ground textures, and fix the horrible bump for the "dried" water.
Still, you can polish a shit, but it's still a shit.
Do what Arteen suggested. He's got the theme down. (no sarcasm)
ok now i remember it mostly:
[quote=cortana dialogue]
...pillar of autumn, she touched down about roughly 500 meters at the other end of this plaetau, scans show her engines are still operational
Ah ok..I was more thinking like in the actual level before the Maw. However she says something else about POA in that cutscene(before the level ends)
We can take out parts of the lines or just the whole line. Not a big deal. I don't see how a desert made it look better. That's also another opinion that you are throwing in and then making fun of anyone who doesn't agree. Who the fuck are you?
So you don't see how the desert makes it look better, but how does the plain field make it look better (or even make sense)?
What bugs me is that the desert signified the damage the POA brought in when it crash-landed-- it could have been green before, but the heat of entry turned everything around it into a desert, complete with scorches.
Now, it looks like it made a not-so-dramatic successful landing, which does not fit well with the mood of the game at that point (IE, everything's been fucked-- the best solution is to kill everything and anything remaining on the ring in a single blast).
I didn't like it then, I don't like it now. I liked the detritus strewn around the PoA in SPV1; if it were a bit lower in poly count (so as not to flicker and dissapear randomly), I think it would demonstrate a change from the original while keeping with the theme.
Or, you could keep the green but make it turn brown and then black near the POA, to at least show that it crash-landed.
p0lar was right: Why did you bring this up again? Last time you did this there was a shitstorm, and I expect no different this time :/
I know :smithicide:
You really can't tell when you need to shut the fuck up, can you?
Do you honestly think anybody gives a shit about whatever vendetta you have against Masterz? Take it to PMs or something because all this bad mojo is killing the CE section.
^^^^^^^^^^^
What the hell is the issue, it's a mod for a game. Don't like it, change it yourself. Get over it and play, shit.
You might be onto something there...
While the stock Maw atmosphere is all about desolation and forbodes the end of the [ring]world, might I suggest something to get a similar point across? Give it a graveyard-ish atmosphere. Modify the sky with more clouds, slightly darker, with trees spread about. Peaceful (if the Autumn hadn't crashed), yet gloomy.
Make it feel like this is THE final resting place. A different metaphor with a similar point.
More thoughts edit:
Scenery trees would take up tag slots, and perhaps would be reserved for LOLHUEG trees. Perhaps edit the BSP directly to add in something that looks like forests (even if it's like fake puffy trees).
Keep in mind the sheer size of the Pillar of Autumn.
With what polar bear said, I absolutely LOVED the backround on Prime, it gave it a feeling of an imminent impending doom and you knew you would die if you didn't finish in time. Could add something quite similiar and modified to give it the natural "the end; The damages are great, the threat is even greater, and it's all up to you." feeling we all love to feel when playing a game as the one and only spartan.
But hey, I don't mind it if you want to keep it that way because it looks pretty...
I like the idea of adding a fov changer to the 3rd Person view on the Extras.
And one more thing, that Time button. It's kind of annoying that it freezes the viewing animation along with the greatness of having everything frozen.... Anyway to fix that up?
My worry is that something like SPV1's problems on d40 would show up again-- Halo doesn't like med-poly far away BSP things, and seems to make random triangles vanish.
Watch in HQ the very far parts of the POA (At 0:08-0:015 or so) and the surrounding detritus and it'll be pretty clear what my problem is with adding more stuff to that scene.
God I fucking love that sky... I wanna play the last level again
bbl.
That issue was caused by the poor portaling of the level after the BSP was modified. It was 10x worse when it was first put in-game.
i agree with polar bear, give it some trees in the background, kinda like a30's background trees, but better looking
Project Shockwave needs you, CMT.
Other than that, it was never to be released without my explicit permissions and also, that model is fucking horrible :(
yes i called my own model horrible.
E: Masters, you want to be a game project manager for a studio someday or something, right? Please, give me one justification for changing the site of a multi-thousand ton starship's crash from desert to a significantly undamaged looking field. I've seen more damage from a car going across a lawn, yet you totally lost the ability to convey a desolate crash site. There is no scorching, debris, or anything that conveys the sense or mood of urgency and distress. You have the capability to do more than the minor dirt pile bungie created, yet you made the scene look more tranquil than anything. You totally blew it, guys. Why? No reason other than to be different.
Actually, I haven't had a desire to work in the game industry for quite a while, I decided to switch my major at the end of last spring semester (2008). But the idea of making this a "windows xp" bliss is because it's suppose to come full circle for the player since the first time they stepped out of the escape pod back in 2001. It's a modified a30 sky, in the background, which you can see more of when the camera swings around. I also like it because it shows the tranquility and peacefulness of the halo, but with the ship that is responsible for all the fighting in the middle of it. I think it works on multiple levels as far as symbolism and mood go.
I'm sure we'll switch up the ground map a bit, and enhance some of the scorching. Editing the BSP here is tricky, it's not like other BSPs, Firedragon could explain it better than I could. Scenery is also difficult to place, the area is huge, and you either have to plant a fuckload of identical trees, or make them larger and ruin the scale. If we ever get good fire, I'll place some on sections of the hull and in some areas where appropriate.
Maybe redo the halo explosion at the end?
How about you make it a mix of both the grass and sand? I'm thinking something a little close to Halo 3's Tsavo Highway and The Storm. It would then show the land being torn up and burnt, but it would also show that it was a nice field beforehand. As for the sky, I wouldn't really know...
The problem I've always had has been with the theme. The desert was chosen for a very specific reason. The desert is a very common archetype.
Because it symbolizes death, it foreshadows the following events. It's not meant to be "Oh yes, I'm back at the Autumn!" - It's "Oh shit, I'm going to destroy everything on this ring!"
There's also the theme of actual desertion, being that now it's only you and Cortana who have come back, now that you're separate from any marines and Keyes is dead. It's like you've lost everything you came to Halo with.
But like I said, it's a common archetype. It's seen in various places. One of the most recent I can remember is the ending of FEAR2, and one of the more wideknown ones is the one in The Lion King.
In The Lion King, you start the movie in a lush, beautiful, lively Savannah. Everyone is happy, and Simba is born. (Oh, by the way, *spoiler alerts!* :p) As the movie progresses, and as Simba leaves Scar to take over, their environment is turned into a bone-dry desert that can't sustain life. Everything is ruined, everyone is sad, everything is doomed. Once Simba kills Scar at the end, the Savannah turns all green, everyone's happy, and once again, the circle of life continues.
You can also see it in Madagascar 2 with the desert (I love the Madagascar movies %-) ).
It's pretty much elementry school English class: themes.
You probably need to play Halo 3 again.
I think the point of a mod is to change aspects of the game. If the aspects they want to change alter the symbolism and foreshadowing, that just makes it more of a mod. Whether or not anyone thinks it offsets the story's flow shouldn't matter.
Also, I am in support of this idea:
So basically you say they should do whatever just because, regardless of how it fits in? Great linear flow. That's the absolute worst thing you could ever do to a game, or any story for that matter.
I completely agree with ICEE, if you want the story and original experience just play the regular campaign.
Really, I haven't seen anyone bitching about how there shouldn't be more areas and objectives, new enemies and weapons because it 'offsets the story,' but God forbid, you whine and moan about them changing the last level to a more peaceful setting and final resting place of the Pillar of Autumn and the beginning of the end for Alpha Halo. It brings a nice change to the flow of the game, give it a chance.
That's because adding in new areas donesn't change the actual underlying story or theme. Apples to oranges.
New weapons and enemies are kind of a push, but they are really just fine because the new enemies we see in Halo 2 and 3 also existed during the events of Halo. It's not like they were "created" after Halo blew up.
Yeah thats exactly what I'm saying. This is a mod, not a serious retail game. If you want the original experience, play the original campaign exactly as ODX suggested. If you want the CMT experience, play the CMT campaign. Every little aspect of the mod doesn't need to fit perfectly, and I don't believe that was ever CMT's intention. You are taking this mod far to seriously for someone whose opinion doesn't really matter anyways, and I suggest you lighten up.
Then rebrand it. It's not Halo if you're disregarding everything that makes it Halo. You knock out any arguments because it IS theirs then.
I believe calling it CMT's campaign rather than halo 1 campaign is close enough to a rebrand.
Hope it doesn't have any part of the word "Halo" in the release, then.
We've been over this before in other threads. It's nothing more than a generic first person shooter if you take away the theme and story of the game. That's already happened a few times with cutscenes and objectives (even new BSPs have affected it enough), and you're still talking about doing it now with scrapping dialogue and the final resting place of the Pillar of Autumn. Sounds like stripping out the actual "Halo" from Halo.
I'm not saying here that the new BSPs killed it- they expanded on the universe - but they still worked towards pushing it further away from the roots of the game (not to harm, though). Now it's getting pushed over the line.
Really, if you want to change this from "Halo" to "Guy In Armored Suit Lands on Ringworld Called Halo and Saves Universe", then go ahead.
It's hard to say that the Halo part has been killed just by looking at it, not playing it. You (as well as I) don't have much of a good idea as to how it plays first-hand, so comparisons to the original game are quite hard to make.
Look, this last page almost has no meaning to it because it's like a chatroom now on a different subject.
I gave my reason for why it's dumb to switch to a bliss.
But I also gave my suggestion for how to make it better than the original even, while keeping the theme constant.
I think everyone would be very happy to see something like what I suggested. It's almost a compromise, but it's a compromise which doesn't leave any disappointment from either side, and you can fit in both sides' stories.
jcap is right.
expanding the atmosphere > changing the atmosphere imo
So? It's a mod. Does it HAVE to follow the atmosphere? And even then, IT'S A NON-PROFIT MOD. It should NOT be that big of a deal
If most of the cut scenes are the same and have the same dialog then the story remains intact. It's still Halo. It may not be cannon, but it's a mod. It shouldn't HAVE to follow cannon, it's like fan fiction. The only thing they're changing is the physical environment. If THAT of all things bothers people, someone needs to lighten up, for real.
Can't forget they're adding BRUTES and NEW WEAPONS to the campaign too. Those aren't getting complained about.
The way I see it, if someone loved Halo 1's story for what it was, they should play the regular Halo campaign instead of a third-party mod of the same campaign on the same engine.
Think about it realistically here: The people who play this mod have played halo before. If they hadn't then why do they own the game that they need to play this mod? why would they care enough to download this mod if they never even played the game? People playing this will already know the storyline. Why are you so intent on forcing your opinion down everyone's throats anyways? I've never seen you post more. What makes you think it matters anyways? CMT has always taken the "we don't care what you think go away" standpoint. Why do you think your an exception?
Everybody just shut up. Masterz and the rest of the team, I expect, knows what sort of problems their choice means (especially after this big shitfest)-- If they choose to ignore it, so be it.
Jcap, you've repeated the same statements over and over-- and even though I agree completely with them, I don't think you're going to convince any more people with them-- you're saying the same thing, over and over. You're not really helping our point, and the stubbon way that you're arguing is actually HURTING your point more than helping it.
Despite its appearance, this isn't a public mod. They aren't making this completely on other people's suggestions-- they are allowed artistic liberties in any direction they please.
I just have a question: How is grass supposed to grow just 5 days after the PoA crash-landed on Halo? I'd rather see some sort of bare forunner metal or tunnels showing through where the land around it was completely removed, because that's a bit more accurate to what should have happened. (Imagine a meteor hitting earth-- that's kind of how damaging the crash should have been.)
Just stop fighting. This is, frankly, childish. On both sides. Throwing insults gets us nowhere, and repeating the same tired points gets us nowhere. The best thing would be to bring up points, and support them (NOT repeat them) if they are dismissed.
Well see, the problem is you're trying to fill it with philosophical bullshit about "coming full circle" when the game is about linear progression and stark contrast from what it was. Nothing in this game is about returning to prior status or anything of what it was. Everything changes. You land in a lush valley, return to a desert, you fight the covenant who are (along with your comrades) transformed to the flood, you leave the pillar of autumn in a lifepod, you return in a banshee to what is essentially a giant nuke.
You see the problem? The game is about juxtaposition of contrasts. Your idea of "xp bliss" is just... out of the ordinary and wrong.
Fuck the trees, fuck the grass, fuck the river. Make the desert look better than what bungie did. Add debris like plates coming off of the POA or something like that. I know you've seen what aircraft debris looks like.
Remember guys, the mod's creators have already taken the position of "don't tell us what to do or we'll stop working on the mod" and "lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala we can't hear youuu" so you really can't tell them anything. You're just going to have to let them do whatever they want until the mod is released.
I can't believe all this drama.
I find this thread entertaining.
It should be more like a learning experince
Honestly, a while ago, sometime between the January Maw beta and all of this drama, I decided that this isn't for me. Something about the mod turns me off. It feels like the added areas are like a survival gauntlet, just wave after wave after wave of enemies that further prolong the distance between the map's objectives. Having played the original campaign over and over, it feels like I'm going it yet again, but this time it's needlessly and pointlessly long.
The work put into it thus far is great, things look good and work well (based on that build of d40 I played), and I continue to give input on stuff because I can, and my viewpoint is from outside of the box.
So, I have another suggestion: why not just remove all of the cutscenes? Since this is geared towards people who have already played the game and is essentially a Super-Hard Bonus Mode, just cut the bullcrap? I'm sure ditching things that are purely for story would free up a number of tag slots and script space, yet accomplish what you want. Right now, the mod is having an identity crisis and it's causing a huge stalemate. You claim the cinematics and storytelling aren't important, yet you continue to leave some in, taking up valuable space you could use elsewhere and leaving us with the impression that they should all be left in. Think of the Advanced maps for Portal. You select the level, and just fucking do it. GLaDOS doesn't say a word (unless you detatch the cameras from the walls), and you've already got the complete portal gun.
For example, for a10, completely cut Reveille. The game should start with a quick flythrough of the level to the player, who will spawn with an empty pistol on the bridge. Reveille is nothing but a tutorial, to help new players get acquainted with the current situation and controls, and thus, has no gameplay value.
As much as I love the cutscenes, p0lar's right. I've probably been through the campaign 20 or 30 times, and after about the fifth time I've skipped them practically always, because it'd gotten to a point where I knew exactly what would happen, when it would happen, and it just got boring(mostly any cutscene with Spark, but yeah).
So what your saying is instead of this as a Single Player variant, it's basically the mythic mode that bungie left out in Halo PC.
Well, according to Masterz, this is an enhancement of the campaign. One can't really enhance a story short of writing fanfiction and retconning it in somehow, so that leaves it obviously as an enhancement of the game's environments and gameplay. They've already cut out things they've deemed as needless for more tagspace and script space, why not go all the way? It would solve some space issues.
Imo, despite following canon or not, cinematics do set up the mood for a level. It's an important aspect of gameplay.
Mid-level cutscenes are pretty important. They give you transitions that would disorient you without them (no matter how many times you play the campaign). These include both mid-level cutscenes that take place in the bridge (one in the PoA, and another in The Maw). While some of the mid-level cutscenes can be taken out, some will need to stay, if not in shortened forms. Otherwise you will suddenly be facing Sentinels that just popped out of nowhere, or you will suddenly jump half the bridge and somehow get a pistol out of nowhere.
Even though cut the following cutscenes for sure (they are just annoying):
- Cutscene where you activate that forerunner bridge.
- The cutscenes for The Silent Cartographer where you activate switches.
Of course the final product I'm suggesting wouldn't be as if someone was recording them playing and they cut out the video whenever the letterbox bars popped up, but rather, yes, shortened cutscenes, or use of dialogue from cutscenes during gameplay. An abridged version, if you will.
I guess what I'm aiming for is: this is a gameplay mod intended for players who have already played and beaten the Halo campaign. Cut out the extraneous stuff we know so well and get to the chase.
For example...
A10, instead of making your way to the bridge, the game starts off with Keyes handing you the pistol and saying "I don't keep it loaded..." At the end, it starts playing out normally, but at the point where the camera would cut to the inside of the lifepod, it stays in the ship and it fades out with the Chief saying "Punch it."
B30, you run up to the cartographer and hit it. Instead of a cutscene showing the cartographer going into detail, instead you keep playing, and Cortana says her lines.
I really think p0lar has hit the nail on the head. This isn't really about the story (as some of the cutscene drops have shown) but rather, "reliving the fight". Anybody who's going to be playing this will already know the halo story and likely have played it to death as much as most people here have. Give us our nightmare mode, we just want to kill some aliens now.
Yeah, come on people. less drama more bomba
http://www.oyunlari18.com/depo/atomicbomberman.gif
lol @ tags
Chiming in to say I agree with the posters saying that the grass doesn't fit at all. The entire thing will be serene and "natural", and it'll have none of the impact or the poignancy of the original scene. The Autumn came down in a ball of fire which devastated itself and the land around it, what you have here looks nothing more than a landing break failure and the pilot gently coasting on the grass. The original scene was desolate, lonely, it reeked of impending danger. Nearly everything that made the original scene memorable has been discarded.
Different isn't always better, and this change doesn't look any better at all.
i've played this game so many times i've basically almost learned most of the dialogue...let me tell you, i live for most of the cutscenes, i actually have to say do away with the light bridge thing, but i love the early part of a10, seeing the carnage of marines trying to fend off the borders and the bodies falling as the covenant war machine just plows right through them
and yeah the MAW's crash site should have been left barren, just looks weird
Yeah the lightbridge cutscene and the one on the silent cartographer really seems unnecessary. But with cmt's new content there should be even more cutscenes not less.
If you look, there is another one on the other side, so it actually might be a bolt.
Actually I meant the one that triggers when you activate to switch to open the door to the map room. But there's no harm in cutting this one out though.
The point of it was to exemplifiy just how huge the underlying structure of the ringworld truly is and we all know by now that halo is indeed lolhueg.
EDIT: Is anyone else having major dejavus from 2006?
Yeah, I know. I just thought about it.
Heads up, I'm broadcasting our working CMT extras, if anyone is interested.
http://www.xfire.com/live_video/masters1337/
During e3?
Are you mad?
This is there E3.. what can I say? :p
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