the thing with halo 1 error is, tapping the trigger too fast still caused a noticable amount of bloom and innaccuracy, IE shots will still miss. the error is determined by the amount of time the trigger is held down. regardless, the need to pace your shots is still there. Even then, there's still going to be shots at certain distances that miss due to the pistol's stock spread. Get a red ret on a target halfway across blood gulch and fire real slow, some shots are going to miss.
same with the assault rifle and plasma rifle.
e:
fuck the pistol is so random!!! no skill!!! kids who pop off 3sks are just lucky!!
December 3rd, 2011, 11:16 PM
Pooky
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
Anyone can do anything.
You don't have much of an argument here, either. Your idea of what skill is seems to be completely arbitrary and opinionated. Even two-hit melee is a skill to be learned.
Are you fucking serious? You're really comparing a 2 hit melee kill in Reach to air shot rockets in CPMA and telling me that they're both equally skilled?
You don't think it's better to have a game that takes practice and dedication to get good at? One where the best players in the game are vastly superior to the moderate ones? Because Reach is none of those things.
My argument is that timing your shots is piss fucking easy and does not in any way improve the skill required to play the game. If you can't pace your shots in Reach you need to get the fuck off the Xbox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p0lar_bear
Yes and no. The projectile error mechanics have always been there, the thing is that they increased the fuck out of the DMR's error deceleration rate. The pistol's error increases if fired full auto, but this is worked around by tapping the trigger, since it's error deceleration rate is less than the time between shots. The BR in Halos 2 and 3 seemed to be fully automatic with burst fire, with little to no error to speak of, and the carbine in both games I think was semiauto only (not sure).
Finally someone who fucking understands this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3h m00kz
the thing with halo 1 error is, tapping the trigger too fast still caused a noticable amount of bloom and innaccuracy, IE shots will still miss. the error is determined by the amount of time the trigger is held down. regardless, the need to pace your shots is still there. Even then, there's still going to be shots at certain distances that miss due to the pistol's stock spread. Get a red ret on a target halfway across blood gulch and fire real slow, some shots are going to miss.
Yes, the Pistol has a SLIGHT spread. That doesn't in any way make it the same as the gigantic spread of Reach's precision weapons.
It's also not even remotely relevant to what we're actually arguing over, which is whether having to pace your shots adds a significant element of skill to the game.
December 3rd, 2011, 11:22 PM
t3h m00kz
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
good thing they decreased the spread in the classic playlists then!
December 3rd, 2011, 11:23 PM
Pooky
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
Too bad the Classic playlists still suck :ohdear:
I mean it was a nice gesture, but I don't think it really works. Reach needs a way larger overhaul before it can be considered classic in any way.
December 3rd, 2011, 11:29 PM
t3h m00kz
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
but... they decreased the bloom! Wasn't that the main argument for why it sucks and is totally random and takes no skill?
hm..
December 3rd, 2011, 11:32 PM
Pooky
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3h m00kz
but... they decreased the bloom! Wasn't that the main argument for why it sucks and is totally random and takes no skill?
hm..
What, Reach in general? Because of bloom? Did you miss the at least 30 posts I repeatedly made where I said bloom wasn't the main problem I had with the game? Or are you just being an asshole?
December 3rd, 2011, 11:38 PM
Warsaw
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
Are you fucking serious? You're really comparing a 2 hit melee kill in Reach to air shot rockets in CPMA and telling me that they're both equally skilled?
You don't think it's better to have a game that takes practice and dedication to get good at? One where the best players in the game are vastly superior to the moderate ones? Because Reach is none of those things.
My argument is that timing your shots is piss fucking easy and does not in any way improve the skill required to play the game. If you can't pace your shots in Reach you need to get the fuck off the Xbox.
That's a piss poor excuse of an argument if I've ever seen one. Now you've changed it from "it's not a skill" to "it's such an easy skill." Good job. L2 debate. It doesn't matter if it's easy when nobody on Live does it. The melee analogy is a valid one. It's easy as hell to just run around, tap the bumper twice, and get a kill. That said, a lot of people still suck at doing it. I guess most people should just stop enjoying Xbox Live, right? And of course I like games that take skill. I agree that Reach is completely non-competitive and way too n00b-friendly, just like Halo 2 and Halo 3 were. I'm not defending it in that aspect. I just think that you should calm down over the bloom mechanic; I'd be fine with it even if it were in the original Halo, because it is not the cause of ANY problems with the game-play in Reach, period. The blame goes to melee lunge, aim assist, infinite DMR range, terrible map layouts, terrible movement mechanics, and shitty weapon tags.
If you're going to debate, sit down and think through what you are saying before just spewing it out. Your platform is so full of holes that it can pass for Swiss cheese.
@Arteen: true, but it doesn't really effect how we use the guns. Who here didn't pace their shots pre-Reach anyways?
December 3rd, 2011, 11:44 PM
Pooky
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
That's a piss poor excuse of an argument if I've ever seen one. Now you've changed it from "it's not a skill" to "it's such an easy skill." Good job. L2 debate.
Learn to understand the meaning of a term in context. Which is something you've bitched at me about before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
It doesn't matter if it's easy when nobody on Live does it.
I do it... virtually every person I've played against has done it. Except maybe in the very first days of playing when I was lower in the trueskill ranks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
I guess most people should just stop enjoying Xbox Live, right?
Yeah, because I totally fucking said that. Oh wait, I said the exact opposite quite a few times. My issue is with the idiots that try to defend Reach as a serious competitive game. Which I've also said quite a few times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
If you're going to debate, sit down and think through what you are saying before just spewing it out. Your platform is so full of holes that it can pass for Swiss cheese.
I could say the same to anyone else in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
I just think that you should calm down over the bloom mechanic;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
Did you miss the at least 30 posts I repeatedly made where I said bloom wasn't the main problem I had with the game?
This is all just part of some plot right? Let's troll Pooky by repeatedly claiming that he said things he actually said the opposite of? Because everyone on Modacity can't possibly have this bad of short term memory.
December 3rd, 2011, 11:57 PM
Warsaw
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
You started the argument about bloom again, by implying that it makes no sense for anyone to think that bloom increases a game's competitiveness. Deal with the consequences.
That said, the majority of players that I've run across in Reach just spam the trigger with the DMR. That is why I win when I don't get double teamed, every time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooky
If you can't pace your shots in Reach you need to get the fuck off the Xbox.
Since, as I just said, most people can't pace their shots in my experience, that statement makes you come off as a total dickweed.
I'm taking your words in context just fine, I'm just choosing to use them against you so you will choose more wisely next time. Clearly you aren't getting the message. If that's not your main issue with the game, then STFU and stop bringing it up as if it were, especially when it hardly has any bearing whatsoever on how us "skilled" people play the game compared to the other titles in the franchise.
December 4th, 2011, 12:01 AM
Pooky
Re: Halo: Reach Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsaw
You started the argument about bloom again, by implying that it makes no sense for anyone to think that bloom increases a game's competitiveness. Deal with the consequences.
That said, the majority of players that I've run across in Reach just spam the trigger with the DMR. That is why I win when I don't get double teamed, every time.
Since, as I just said, most people can't pace their shots in my experience, that statement makes you come off as a total dickweed.
I'm taking your words in context just fine, I'm just choosing to use them against you so you will choose more wisely next time. Clearly you aren't getting the message. If that's not your main issue with the game, then STFU and stop bringing it up as if it were, especially when it hardly has any bearing whatsoever on how us "skilled" people play the game compared to the other titles in the franchise.
How does 'having to pace your shots doesn't add a significant element of skill to the gameplay' = 'bloom is the main problem with Halo: Reach'. That's an absolutely retarded leap of logic.
So I'm going to contend that you don't take my words in context just fine, and neither apparently do the majority of people in this thread.
I don't know what kind of Reach players you've been up against, but I guess you must be lower in the rankings than me because I've never encountered people who just spam the trigger.
e: unless it's in close quarters of course
Quote:
Since, as I just said, most people can't pace their shots in my experience, that statement makes you come off as a total dickweed.
I'll give you this one, as I could have phrased that better. I'm not referring to the majority of people on Xbox Live. I'm referring to the people in this thread. In this case, you.
