Forge CE

Edited 8/10/2010
Hi, I was curious to what CE users thought about a Forge like application and if any developers would perhaps enjoy lending a hand in the project. I think after the new OpenSauce is released, I will use that as a base instead and improve upon it. I am in the process of cleaning up and familiarizing myself with the code already written, since it's been a year from when I last worked on it. I was still visiting this site and everything and I was sad to see Real Time Tag Editor to not be released :[ It seemed to be something useful to the community. This app does the real time tag editing as well as a map editor like Forge. The code I had done was moving live objects around with the cursor like in Spark Edit(throwing Masterchiefs around like rag dolls is hilarious) and drawing nametags on objects to display it's imformation as well as a basic d3d gui for a menu. I have most of the tag layouts hard coded already, I wasn't really interested in the XML stuff. I am more towards using memory mapping and pointers instead of reading and writing maps.

There is plans for implementing a multiplayer editor where 16 players will all be able to modify the map/game at the same time and yes it does sync. I have tested some simple edits with a client and everything registered on the server. I hooked the existing socket so every time a packet is received or sent, it's through the server connection in Halo instead of outside the game on a new connection. A unique key is in the packet header so you know you can trace which packets are for Forge. It just has to send the memory address of the data change and the data itself.

I needed help with developing a GUI menu. I was originally drawing every line and box manually with D3d, but that is gpu expensive compared to creating a menu in photoshop and drawing it as a sprite. I was thinking about doing a garys mod type menu, it's really slick and user friendly. If someone wants to help develop this let me know.


Here is a video I posted up of current progress, a year ago when I stopped working on it. As you can see, yes its buggy and not much to show right now but alot of code and time was put into this.

All this video shows is moving objects around and basic nametags, but it will eventually display the objects information instead. No gui in this yet. Flycam action at the end, which I need help with its buggy. OH and I will disable the gun shooting when moving an object, that was pretty annoying during testing.


Features Done or Being Work On:
- All placeable objects are movable down the XY and Z axes with your mouse.
- All objects have nametags, which are taken from the map memory and parsed
- Custom world space to screen space algorithm
- Direct3D device is completely hooked and does not interfere with other apps that also hook Halo's device
- Console is hooked for remote control
- Flycam is in progress, buggy
- Lots of data structures and helper functions

Things I Want To Do:
- update flycam
- Be able to have up to 16 players mod the same map and all see the changes, need to read up on my win32 sock programming
- When moving objects, allow them to stick and slide along bsp, need to research collision detection
- Forge in flycam mode only, like Halo 3, which will fix many problems
- Be able to move MP flags and spawn points
- Use Halo's rendering code to draw custom 3d objects in teh Halo game world, something I worked on for while, especially to mark spawn points, bounding boxes would be slick
- Custom reticle when in forge mode
- Direct3D GUI to control all options and to edit tag and object data
- Scale nametags based on distance
- Use Halo engine to draw text for faster rendering
- Be able to rotate objects, Pitch/Yaw/Roll easily
- Reverse the entire map structure, especially all the tag data xD I've done alot of it using Guerilla

Currently the project is open sourced by myself and Abyll, but if other coders decide to help, it is completely up to their discretion. I won't post the link just yet, it's on an SVN server, so you need to be a project member anyway, unless you just want to view the source in html.

I'm not looking for attention, this is something I've been wanting to finish for a very long time and to push the pc modding community forward with something new and innovative. Any ideas and help that can be offered would be great.

hahaha

I don't know anything about coding, but I would definitely play with that on, just for the little names everywhere :p

This is dzEdit right?

Didnt you say before some of this didnt sync which was a problem. Also I recommend setting the ammo of current gun to 0 when you are holding object, will stop you shooting constantly :O

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Originally Posted by Yuki

I would definitely play with that on, just for the little names everywhere :p

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:haw:

Selentic wallhax.

Add a command that lets a player spawn objects. For example:
object_new "scenery\flag base\flag base"

If you can save the changes to the map from ingame that would be amazing. Better yet if you could get halo to accept the 'new' map without requiring a game restart.

nice, but everything with a name would get a bit annoying.

Are you able to save these changes once you're done? Whatever the case, this is amazing. I really hope you finish it because it's rare to have someone come along and introduce something completely new to the game.

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Originally Posted by Advancebo

nice, but everything with a name would get a bit annoying.

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A console toggle command would be great.

My question is how it will cope with open sauce.

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Originally Posted by Dwood

My question is how it will cope with open sauce.

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"Direct3D device is completely hooked and does not interfere with other apps that also hook Halo's device"

I think that means they'll work together.

I thought he meant stuff like xfire.

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Originally Posted by Limited

This is dzEdit right?

Didnt you say before some of this didnt sync which was a problem. Also I recommend setting the ammo of current gun to 0 when you are holding object, will stop you shooting constantly :O

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There is no syncing problem, when a client is connected to the server, it will be able to send the changed data through packets and apply it to memory, which is super quick. I was wanting to do flycam only mode when editing so there will be no hud or weapon problem. Yea I know I should have done it for the video demo, but I was too excited at the time to show it off hehe

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Originally Posted by Inferno

Selentic wallhax.

Add a command that lets a player spawn objects. For example:
object_new "scenery\flag base\flag base"

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I was never an advanced modder, not that it has to do with entering console commands or scripting, but I'm just not sure how this works exactly. I did reverse the cheat_spawn_warthog command and was able to spawn any object just by object name or just tag reference, but it never was added to the actual map. As soon as it respawned it disappears. I'm still thinking about how this will work.

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Originally Posted by Advancebo

nice, but everything with a name would get a bit annoying.

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Yep, I know what you mean lol. There will be some big changes with the way d3d info works.

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Originally Posted by Con

Are you able to save these changes once you're done? Whatever the case, this is amazing. I really hope you finish it because it's rare to have someone come along and introduce something completely new to the game.

A console toggle command would be great.

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Yes, you will be able to save, load, and revert changes during game. I'll add that to the todo list.

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Originally Posted by Con

"Direct3D device is completely hooked and does not interfere with other apps that also hook Halo's device"

I think that means they'll work together.

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The way I hook is unique from the way OS hooks and there is no conflict with any other apps including xfire, fraps, etc

I shouldve made a better demo =p Where my coders at?

i remember testing this with you an abyll.
I still have that halo PC injection .dll file.
:O it was awesome then and it looks awesome now.

This is really awesome.

needs on screen UI, but its very impressive.

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Originally Posted by Skarma

That and if any coders would like to help out. Much of the tedious code is done already, but there is still tons of work to do. I posted this up on other sites a long time ago, but not many people were willing to help.

Things I Want To Do:
- New flycam algorithm, fix view matrix problem
- Direct3D GUI to control all options and to edit tag and object data
- Scale nametags based on distance
- Use Halo engine to draw text for faster rendering
- Reverse the entire map structure, especially all the tag data xD I've done alot of it using Guerilla

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Their is very few people that still play ce that can code that kind of stuff

i clicked this thread thinking i was going to see some halomaps kiddie making his first post on modacity asking if anyone would make forge for him. i was very wrong.

this looks incredible. if you need anyone to help test i would love to

lol donut ;)

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Originally Posted by tythespy

Their is very few people that still play ce that can code that kind of stuff

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The reason why it's hard to find true help with that kind of stuff and this site I will probably have the most luck, lots of very good people here. I can do it all myself, but it won't be as fun and will take more time :saddowns: Ineed coding buddy

Wow. I commend you for your progress. This is farther than anyone has ever gotten on a forge-like system for CE. Looks really cool. Wish I could help, but I have zero programming skills. :/

Dude, that kicks ass.

Hey, I'm back! :iamafag:
Um... actually, probably not officially. College life kicks ass (My own, mostly. *ouch*). So... I suppose I'll keep helping out on this, if I have any free time, just because this really is so awesome.

I remember plenty of problems when I last was working with it

• Object name text gets messed up at extreme angles above or below the camera
• We never found out how to detect mouse wheel scrolling (to move a held object away/toward camera)
• Moving objects into a different portal made an object disappear and essentially get destroyed (unless it was a physics-enabled object - vehicle, projectile, biped, weapon - that was already acted upon by physics)
• Objects with physics, if they were being acted upon by physics at the time (i.e. a falling vehicle or projectile) keeps being acted upon, so if you grab a player and hold them in the air, they keep falling and die.

So.. put them on the to-do list too, XD

I still think, if used correctly, OpenSauce could make this really easy for us. Maybe with some modding, so it hooks D3D better, but I don't really know.. I'm waiting on the manual I heard km00's working on for it...

Oh and yes, AirRivals. It's free, it's fun, and it's a non-point&click MMORPG. (See definition: addictive.) I mean, er, college & life & shit.. it takes a lot out of my time... .. yeah.

... lol looks like you got my xfire message abyll.

It looks good but I can't really see a use for it as long as Sapien exists.

You should make it so you can trigger the object names on and off. And that when you move an object like a weapon its spawn point stays in the same place you leave it, but that one was probably already planned.

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Originally Posted by malolo420

You should make it so you can trigger the object names on and off. And that when you move an object like a weapon its spawn point stays in the same place you leave it, but that one was probably already planned.

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Yup Yup and when objects are being moved, their spawn points stay the same, you just can't see them xD You are just moving their current game world coordinates. I want to be able to render my own 3D objects for spawn points! :downs:

hey if you all want to test this yourself and post ideas you have that will make it better visit this thread: http://www.halomaps.com/forum/index.....html#msg40093

I don't know if you need to register to view the attachment mainly cuz i'm registered and logged in but meh not that big of a deal to register.

But yeah it's an early beta, for halo PC. Try it out, and post any ideas you may have.

Wait... Skarma, you've already migrated this to hce, right?

By the way, you should disable this for Coldsnap and hugeass. :P

If i were you i would, for initial filesaving, have the saves be in a custom filetype. That way we could send our 'mods' to other people without killing hard drive space/bandwidth.

Or make the app save the coordiants in a new file type. Then if someone sends this file to a friend the app would check that they have the correct map loaded and then load the coordiants of the objects.

You just restated what i said hunter, lol.

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Originally Posted by supersniper

... lol looks like you got my xfire message abyll.

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Yea I saw it, but then Silentk messaged me himself, XD

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Originally Posted by t3h m00kz

It looks good but I can't really see a use for it as long as Sapien exists.

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You missed the main idea of the whole thing - modding while IN GAME. Sure you could mod it with Sapien, then recompile it, etc.. But the idea with this is you're playing like normal, but then can move and create objects and do stuff with them - just like Forge mode in H3.

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Originally Posted by Dwood

Wait... Skarma, you've already migrated this to hce, right?

By the way, you should disable this for Coldsnap and hugeass. :P

If i were you i would, for initial filesaving, have the saves be in a custom filetype. That way we could send our 'mods' to other people without killing hard drive space/bandwidth.

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The hard coded addresses in the version thats floating around is for Halo PC, but they are easily updatable to CE within a few minutes. The reason I put the title with CE is because I'm thinking about making it CE only, but only time will tell. What you guys think?

I was thinking about having an option of saving it as a map file OR saving the changed data into a unique file. I want this to be more than an app that moves objects around, you can just use spark edit for that. I just thought it would be neat to be able to mod and test your mod at the same exact time without the hassle of opening and closing Halo everytime and being able to mod with up to 15 other friends, which is hella cool.

What you see in the video isn't even what the final product is going to be. It just shows you the direction and and capabilities of what can be done and what has been coded by Abyll and I so far.

Right now, I'm working on reversing more rendering code from Olly, so I can render custom models/objects externally... mainly for spawn points and flags and stuff. Yea, I could just draw some 2d overlay stuff, but it looks retarded heh. After that I need to work on reversing more of the map structure, if anyone is good with that..

Here is rendering stuff I did a few months ago, I'm starting where I left off here: http://www.halomaps.com/forum/index....ic,5876.0.html

Only better. I'm pretty sure that we can do a few things that forge presently cant.

This Friday i'll see if i can get the source and take a look at it, then see if Biti (igm) would be willing to help.

e: Reply to abyll last pg.

I won't lie, I love that someone is doing something like this to the engine itself, but at the same time I really can't help but question if it's useful. One thing Forge has that this doesn't is the ability to add in objects to the map that aren't there in the stock variants. Most mapmakers for CE remove unused definitions from the scenery palette, so most maps that already exist will be extremely limited in forging. I'll also say right now that I have never ever liked "log" mods (exceptions being Halo 3 variants for some asinine reason).

Though, at the same time this would be a VERY good tool for tweaking maps during testing. Instead of having to recompile the whole map because there's a piece of scenery that can be used for an exploit in its current spot, or because the rocket launcher's current spot is bad, you can just make the tweaks right then and there and playtest them.

If this can be run on a server and people without it can join it will be the greatest thing ever.

Say goodbye to plasma cannons on hangemhigh and damnation. And no more into the base teleporter on sidewinder. Oh and no more dangurcanyon rocket/fuel camping.

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Originally Posted by Dwood

Only better. I'm pretty sure that we can do a few things that forge presently cant.

This Friday i'll see if i can get the source and take a look at it, then see if Biti (igm) would be willing to help.

e: Reply to abyll last pg.

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What sauce?

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

I won't lie, I love that someone is doing something like this to the engine itself, but at the same time I really can't help but question if it's useful. One thing Forge has that this doesn't is the ability to add in objects to the map that aren't there in the stock variants. Most mapmakers for CE remove unused definitions from the scenery palette, so most maps that already exist will be extremely limited in forging. I'll also say right now that I have never ever liked "log" mods (exceptions being Halo 3 variants for some asinine reason).

Though, at the same time this would be a VERY good tool for tweaking maps during testing. Instead of having to recompile the whole map because there's a piece of scenery that can be used for an exploit in its current spot, or because the rocket launcher's current spot is bad, you can just make the tweaks right then and there and playtest them.

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This is one thing that I really, really do want to do, just forgot to add it to the list. It will just take a little time to figure out how halo creates new objects and spawns them, from there it should be simple to add user created content from external files, however it's done(I don't know alot about modding xD). Shouldn't be too difficult, once the reversing is done.

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Originally Posted by Inferno

If this can be run on a server and people without it can join it will be the greatest thing ever.

Say goodbye to plasma cannons on hangemhigh and damnation. And no more into the base teleporter on sidewinder. Oh and no more dangurcanyon rocket/fuel camping.

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Yea, it's actually useful in some cases, very amusing, and easily abused in others.

Thank you for your input everyone, it's really helping more than you think! <3
Nothing feels better than figuring stuff out myself and sharing it with the community. I couldn't think of a better reward than accomplishment

If you figure out that stuff perhaps allow anything thats in the tags folder to be added to the map.

Another idea is to check if the clients have the 'forge' app and then allow, if enabled, people to send/transfer the tags.
Put that on the back of the list though. :)

This would be the best tool ever for play testing. Good luck with this.

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Originally Posted by t3h m00kz

It looks good but I can't really see a use for it as long as Sapien exists.

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your joking right?... I think this guy's joking...


Think about this...

you drove a warthog into a massive Crevasse!!! and got out just before it went over the edge... call in the re-enforcements! if you link this to a Commander player for team games that would be awesome. and for non team games. a vote should be initiated that allows people to elect someone to make sure the playing field is even for everyone. say a bunch of people gang up on some1 while in a warthog. create a ghost right in front of them to not only to eat some lead but allow the victim to run to safety while he recovers.

sorta like playing as a sentinel in h3 multiplayer hey?

just out of curiosity. what in this does and doesn't sync?

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Originally Posted by Aßyll

You missed the main idea of the whole thing - modding while IN GAME. Sure you could mod it with Sapien, then recompile it, etc.. But the idea with this is you're playing like normal, but then can move and create objects and do stuff with them - just like Forge mode in H3.

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Can you save the map file once you're done messing around with it?

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Originally Posted by the1

:words:

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I can understand dicking around with it but as far as modding goes, if my above question is answered false, it'd be pretty useless for modding purposes.

But as I said, it looks like it's being built pretty well.

Didnt kirby do a script or something like this a long time ago? I remember seeing him flying around as 343GuiltySpark placing a large rock,maybe you should ask him?

You will be able to save. Then later you will be able to export.

This is what i was thinking of

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/conure55/Hme.png
Which is very alsome

Here :iamafag:

I use to talk to conure on aim but I don't think I got his screen name anymore or he just doesn't log on. I wanted to do tag editing in game, but less poopy than this. The entire map file is filled with pointers to all the data, which is why editing it in memory is way easier than binary editing. I never understood why people didn't use memory mapping instead of I/O operations outside of the game...the difference in speed is rediculous considering file io is slowest thing in programming and using pointers is fast and easy, without having to calculate offsets n shit. :eng101: cheers to conure

He open Sourced it, use that as an example?

That looks useful, and also the mention of Locke's program which practically was Forge sounded interesting too. *goes hunting for more info*

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Originally Posted by Skarma

I never understood why people didn't use memory mapping instead of I/O operations outside of the game

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I used a technique to load the game data directly into memory for an application I did for Halo 2 xbox. That method only really benefits when you're just reading or editing existing data. It doesn't work well when you're wanting to change (add, delete, insert, etc) memory allocated data (like a tag_block)

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Originally Posted by Aßyll

That looks useful, and also the mention of Locke's program which practically was Forge sounded interesting too. *goes hunting for more info*

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Lol Mine and Lockes app, brings back memories. It was in VB6 back then lol, so pro :D The major work on it was only in BG though. Locke was pushing to make it for PC, I was pushing to make it for CE :D I still have my prototype back from like 2006/07 which shows Locke what I wanted it to do via memory.

It just occurred to me that the way this sort of thing could be most useful for me is if I could place encounters this way.

eg. I load up BCE, wander through the level until I get to a place that needs an encounter, create one using the existing actor palette, and then place a few spawn points and set the number to spawn. Then I walk back, trigger the encounter via console, see how it plays out, and then go back in and rearrange the spawn points, add or remove enemies, etc, to tweak the encounter.

Similarly for placing weapons used in encounters, and scenery used for cover...

This all sounds to me extremely difficult to implement, but if you did that for me, I would jizz all over you.

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

I used a technique to load the game data directly into memory for an application I did for Halo 2 xbox. That method only really benefits when you're just reading or editing existing data. It doesn't work well when you're wanting to change (add, delete, insert, etc) memory allocated data (like a tag_block)

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agreed! I just love pointers hehe

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Originally Posted by Rob Oplawar

It just occurred to me that the way this sort of thing could be most useful for me is if I could place encounters this way.

eg. I load up BCE, wander through the level until I get to a place that needs an encounter, create one using the existing actor palette, and then place a few spawn points and set the number to spawn. Then I walk back, trigger the encounter via console, see how it plays out, and then go back in and rearrange the spawn points, add or remove enemies, etc, to tweak the encounter.

Similarly for placing weapons used in encounters, and scenery used for cover...

This all sounds to me extremely difficult to implement, but if you did that for me, I would jizz all over you.

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Like I said, I'm an amateur modder, so I'm not sure how this stuff works yet. Outside of the game itself, is it as easy as adding some new tags with the data you want and it's done? If it's like that, then it should be easy.. instead of jizz, can it be bacon? i love bacon..

you want to eat rob's penis bacon? :v:

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Originally Posted by n00b1n8R

you want to eat rob's penis bacon? :v:

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Nuh, its obvious he wants Stankbacons:)

It's been a while since I worked on this and picked it back up recently. I was sad for the news about Real Time Tag Editor, was looking forward to that. The first post was edited a bit to explain it better and the plans I have for the development. I think I will be using the new OpenSauce as a base since it has the engine and memory layouts hooked already and has much more to offer and expand upon. I am working on bsp stuff right now for collision/visibility/sphere tracing stuff but I need a break from that and start working on the menu and tag&map editing options. I really need some help and advice to start chugging it along.

Tracing would be handy for this though...the 'Am I looking at an object' function right now relies on a predefined angle, or?

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Originally Posted by CrAsHOvErRide

Tracing would be handy for this though...the 'Am I looking at an object' function right now relies on a predefined angle, or?

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Right now it works by calculating the vector you need to be looking directly at the object and comparing it to the vector you are actually looking. Youre right collision detection,tracing,bsp tree traversal would be so awesome!

It'd be fun if you added a way to move verts around as well. :3

Oh wait I was supposedly helping you with this....

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Originally Posted by Skarma

Right now it works by calculating the vector you need to be looking directly at the object and comparing it to the vector you are actually looking. Youre right collision detection,tracing,bsp tree traversal would be so awesome!

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Yeah that is how I have done that as well in the past. You probably know the problems but I'll write them here for the others anyway:
1. The absolute offset of every object is taken, meaning the position the developer defined in 3ds max/Sapien for instance. This position might be anywhere inside or outside the object thus making everything inaccurate.
2. The size of the object is obviously not considered so you alway have to aim at the absolute offset which might be anywhere and very small compared to the object itself.

Having tracing would solve this problem.

To move objects in game, I'm using the world space position within the live object data. You are I think talking about spawn points and where objects are initially positioned when the map is loaded. Those aren't issues this way. World space position is converted to screen space position to check the closest object to where you're aiming and when you move the object, the 2d coordinates are converted back to 3d and the live position is updated. I think I will switch to tracing and with collision detection I can cling the object to the bsp when it's moved so it slides along the ground and not go through it.

Verts like Bsp/model verts?

BSP model Verts yup.

I didn't know that there where two types of 'positions'. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by Skarma

Yup Yup and when objects are being moved, their spawn points stay the same, you just can't see them xD You are just moving their current game world coordinates. I want to be able to render my own 3D objects for spawn points! :downs:

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I was thinking, you could post the file on Halo CE Maps, and we could test it out and give you feedback via the forums?

The post above doesn't have enough information
I mean could you post the forge thingo on Halo CE Maps and we could test it out:downs::downs:

In the future, use the edit button to make changes to posts rather than posting twice in a row.

I don't think he needs any testers. It's not like a map where you need to see how it performs with a bunch of different players on it. Any new additions Skarma can test himself so it's pretty unlikely you'll get a copy to play with. I won't speak for him though, just saying don't get your hopes up.

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Originally Posted by Con

In the future, use the edit button to make changes to posts rather than posting twice in a row.

I don't think he needs any testers. It's not like a map where you need to see how it performs with a bunch of different players on it. Any new additions Skarma can test himself so it's pretty unlikely you'll get a copy to play with. I won't speak for him though, just saying don't get your hopes up.

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I realize that, but what I'm saying is he could post it, and we can give him feedback as players, not testers. Catching my drift?
As for me not getting my hopes up, I'm happy to wait, in fact, patience is a great quality to have.
and exactly what is opensauce?

Hello skarma I am avengertylerb and I am with you on this project. I have found the forge amap and another map to integrate into CE forge to complete it. Once I complete it I will somehow send you a copy by either putting it in halo maps or by email ettachment. This is all I have to say for now so until next time may the force be with you.

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Originally Posted by avengertylerb

Hello skarma I am avengertylerb and I am with you on this project. I have found the forge amap and another map to integrate into CE forge to complete it. Once I complete it I will somehow send you a copy by either putting it in halo maps or by email ettachment. This is all I have to say for now so until next time may the force be with you.

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Sweet necro bump. Last post was four years ago and the thread was started five years ago.

I think it's probably safe to say that the project is dead.

I think Jelly is working on this project now so no it is not dead .....

post about it