CMT, Tagspace, tagslots, script space, and version numbers.

[Masterz1337]

Wait, so we can't have marines with rocket launchers on the sides of our tanks anymore?

You couldn't anyway in H1, and you can't have marines on the side of the scorpions now because the marines get on and jump off after each encounter. And when they jump off while your driving they get splattered.

[Choking Victim]

What sacrifice are we making? It's the fact that we want to be DONE with the project, and all you guys want is for us to prolong it and keep working on it using OS so you can all have fun on 1.08.

So you're upset with me because I don't want to make my job easier on something I don't even consider that much of a problem, yet earlier you complained that Kornman should use his knowledge to update OS so other people could use it for their projects. He offered to make the update as long as we met his DEMAND that we make it exclusively for 1.08. If it's so simple then why he going to only release it if we do spv2 exclusively for 1.08. If we want to use it, everyone gets it, if we don't want to use it no one gets it. Does that sound right to you? That people should be punished by our actions?

I don't consider the game restrictions to be something we've struggled with, if anything it has made our project more fun and better (performance wise too).

Thanks for avoiding my question about the other team member's on your "team". If that's what you consider it at this point, when your the only one calling the shots and seemingly alienating the other members. So you like having to do more work to conform to halo's memory limits? The cheese stands alone my friend.

[il Duce Primo]

If CMT were to use it I would have motivation for actively developing the subsystem for OS. However, Masters said he wouldn't even if I did so I have no real motivation to develop it anytime soon. Sure other people can benefit from such a system, but they can benefit from being paid to develop mods too, just as I could benefit from being paid to do the things I do in my free time.

I'm doing MPv3. I know there are team members who are interested in working on another MP map set and some who are tired of CE. Could you develope it OS so it could be used for MPv3? That should make the playerbase on 1.08 larger and everyone here should be happy and stop bitching.

[Masterz1337]

Though I admittedly didnt read all of the longposts in the last few pages, it seems to me that theres a few bolts missing in some of the viewpoints here.

• Is this tag space / tag slot expansion really possible and reliable?
• What problems could this expansion theoretically cause?
• How long will the testing and refining of the expansion take? Isn't CMT sort of on a time budget here? I thought that they had established a deadline before they were done working on this project due to the fact that they're tired of working on it.

These factors should all effect the out come of the decision. However I don't see why anyone should care about whether or not they update the game.

1. Yes it is plausible, but no one knows how reliable it will be till it's done. When you start messing with this stuff you never can tell if it will work as planned or if it will interfere with something else.

2. Well for one, computers that fit the minimum requirements for halo pc may not be able to run it, as I assume the limits are there for a reason. The majority here have nice shiny PCs, that's not the case for everyone else. SPV2 would only be able to run on 1.08 with OS, so anyone that wishes to use yelo or can't upgrade due to complications with vista would be left out.

3. No limits= no real way for us to actually decide when to stop working, the limits are the only reason we've stopped adding content and focused on finishing and polishing, which many of us are tired of. What's happened before is that we reach a point where we are tired of working, and no one wants to actually have to go down and do all the polishing and gritty work when they're burned out. That's how we end up getting to those 4 month long breaks where nothing gets done.

[Masterz1337]

Thanks for avoiding my question about the other team member's on your "team". If that's what you consider it at this point, when your the only one calling the shots and seemingly alienating the other members. So you like having to do more work to conform to halo's memory limits? The cheese stands alone my friend.

I meant to comment on it, but I forgot. I didn't quote it for no reason. I do consult the team. For SPV2, the majority don't care about using OS. We're really happy with the way the mod is right now. I assumed Lag was now on board with my OP since he +repped it, either I was wrong or he's had a change of heart.

[jcap]

I don't find the cutting and tag shaving to be hurting the mod at all, I actually find half the fun in working on it finding ways around these challenges. You know as well as I that the only reason this project is finally coming to a close is because of these limits, and if we did use OS, would we ever be able to say that we're happy with the mod and that there's nothing we can do to make it better? One thing we've always done well is found a way to make the next thing we add better than the last, and with unlimited space, we both know that we're never going to stop. We're all ready to move onto the next thing, but that's never going to happen if we use OS.

Wow. Give me a second for the stupid to set in...

OK...................done.

So you find fun in giving things the axe which you could otherwise have? You like restricting yourself and having to limit your options because of your ignorance? Maybe you could have just put more effort into integrating OS instead of chopping everything out.

With the current course the mod is on, at release it is not even going to be close to "finished." Your definition of "finished" is when you hit the game's limit, not when it is complete. There is FAR much more you can do to make it better, such as integrating OpenSauce so you don't have to strip shit from the mod.

If you have unlimited space you'll just keep adding stuff? Really? If you're saying that you don't have the self control to call it quits and finalize something, you're ridiculous. And you should be considering everything - that's what makes it the best it can be. Unless you can come up with a rock solid, undisputed reason to not include something completely plausible, you should make every effort to include that in the release build within the development period.

[Hunter]

He's only making the OS update if we promise to use it on SPV2.

And I think Jcap really wants the OS update so he can kick some as in style because he doesnt sound happy

[teh lag]

What sacrifice are we making? It's the fact that we want to be DONE with the project, and all you guys want is for us to prolong it and keep working on it using OS so you can all have fun on 1.08.

You and I both know we're not exactly done with this. It's not like we've finished everything and we're being hounded on all sides by the terrible, selfish 1.08 players to do more work when we shouldn't have to - we'd be working for at LEAST 3-4 more months on this even without OS. All OS will do for us is give us more wiggle room which, despite your sudden change of attitude on the subject over the past few days, we sorely need.

I want to be done as much as you - hell, I've been the one making to-do lists and trying to set internal deadlines for stuff. I feel that we would spend more time working to cram in everything now (and make further cramming as our remaining content is finished) than we would if we could do anything we wanted. You have too little faith in our team's self-control if you think that lifting these restrictions would lead to an endless dev-cycle.

Forget about "them" having fun on 1.08. What about not having to worry if the latest update to a biped or vehicle or anything will break the tagset or not? I've still got the source files for a bunch of stuff that we've cut out and I think we could use again (and yes, I do miss the vehicle pieces and have the source files for them sitting in a folder on my PC), so it's not like we'd be working our asses off to restore it anyway. I don't understand why the A10 cutscene is permanently kaput, but I'll doubt that it;d take more than a day or two to reintegrate.

I don't consider the game restrictions to be something we've struggled with, if anything it has made our project more fun and better (performance wise too).

We have struggled with them and you know it. It's true that it may have spurred some more creative solutions to our problems, but now we've learned all that stuff and we can afford to have those restrictions lifted. If anything, they're holding us back now. We could have LODs for a bunch of stuff like our flood bipeds and some of the vehicles (which, given how fast I did the Brute and Elite ones, wouldn't take long once I get in the groove like I just did for the board anims), but you yourself said in the OP that not having LODs is an easy way to cut down on tagspace.

1. Yes it is plausible, but no one knows how reliable it will be till it's done. When you start messing with this stuff you never can tell if it will work as planned or if it will interfere with something else.

Well, we wouldn't even be using it until it's done, so if it didn't work we wouldn't have wasted any time on it anyway. If it doesn't work I won't have a problem - we'll have no commitment and we can go about things as normal.

2. Well for one, computers that fit the minimum requirements for halo pc may not be able to run it, as I assume the limits are there for a reason. The majority here have nice shiny PCs, that's not the case for everyone else. SPV2 would only be able to run on 1.08 with OS, so anyone that wishes to use yelo or can't upgrade due to complications with vista would be left out.

Again with the playerbase? So what if fewer people can play it? If they don't read the readme (in which we could easily stick a new set of minimum requirements) it's their own fault.

We're really happy with the way the mod is right now. I assumed Lag was now on board with my OP since he +repped it, either I was wrong or he's had a change of heart.

I'm not happy with it. I'm not happy that every time we add something in (it even happened with the boarding) we have to spend a day getting it all to hold together. I'm not happy with all of the aforementioned "little things" having to be removed for something that's now preventable. I'm not happy with the prospect of removing iconic parts of Halo like the marines on tanks or the A10 custscene. I'm not happy with having to choose what content gets cut from a level because we've run out of space for it. I repped you for explaining the nature of our problems, not your position. I was sitting on the sidelines until now, but I won't stand by and let this slip out of our hands.

As I said above, I'm willing to accept the state of our mod if there's nothing we can do about it, but not when someone has offered us a solution on the only condition that we use it if it works.

[jcap]

or can't upgrade due to complications with vista would be left out.

This is irrelevant as well. They just need administrative privileges to upgrade. Chances are they are not even using a custom UI and they upgraded the game before downgrading. I really doubt many on 1.04 even use a custom UI.

And if that's a problem, then include the updater in the release and a note in the readme. It's so simple it's pathetic.

[il Duce Primo]

Wow. Give me a second for the stupid to set in...

OK...................done.

So you find fun in giving things the axe which you could otherwise have? You like restricting yourself and having to limit your options because of your ignorance? Maybe you could have just put more effort into integrating OS instead of chopping everything out.

With the current course the mod is on, at release it is not even going to be close to "finished." Your definition of "finished" is when you hit the game's limit, not when it is complete. There is FAR much more you can do to make it better, such as integrating OpenSauce so you don't have to strip shit from the mod.

If you have unlimited space you'll just keep adding stuff? Really? If you're saying that you don't have the self control to call it quits and finalize something, you're ridiculous. And you should be considering everything - that's what makes it the best it can be. Unless you can come up with a rock solid, undisputed reason to not include something completely plausible, you should make every effort to include that in the release build within the development period.

People who play halo illegally would not be able to enjoy our mod. One of the main driving force that pushes me into working is that I know there will be tons of people who will enjoy what I'm doing. By restricting SPv2 to only 1.08 will drastically reduce the amount of people that will play it. I could care less if they pirated it because they aren't hurting me in anyway. If anything they push me closer to finishing and plain out working. It is selfish but I don't give a damn because that's what makes me human.