The Xbone

5/24/13 - Kinect:


Outlined in the Kinect Video:

• Detects minute things like buttons on your shirt, and can easily detect any movement.
• Can log you in automatically once you pickup a controller, and logs which player you are based on the controller
• Has IR, 3D, and HD imaging capabilities
• If you move places the screen moves to your side. EX: switching to another side of the couch while playing split-screen, the screen will switch to the side you're on.
• The video handled 5 people at once on the screen, created bones and everything for them.
• Monitors your heart rate
• Monitors your expressions

Xbox One reveal:


Meet Xbox One:

What it runs on + PS4 Comparison:
http://i6.minus.com/i5A5woHM6grZa.jpg

The Xbox.com page

The Xbox:

Kinect:

The Controller:

Thoughts?

I like the controller.

Thats literally about it.

What I don't get is how come they didn't keep the adjustable D-pad from the new 360 controllers, and maybe add some more onto the joysticks like the aftermarket ones you can get.

D-pad:
http://nfgcontrols.com/grafx/X360-dpad-2.jpg
Joysticks:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....roller-360.jpg

Because the adjustable D-STICK was just that. It still wasn't a true D-pad.

Back in my day, this was an Xbox 1
http://www.jogimods.com/xbox1.jpg

Fucking microsoft, now we have to retroactively rename the old xbox.

According to them, they named it One because:

Quote:

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All the entertainment you love. All in one place.

From the biggest blockbuster games to the most popular TV shows to the best
of the Web, Xbox One does it all. But this is just the beginning. Thanks to the
power of the cloud, Xbox One will keep getting better, with more games,
TV, movies, music, and apps launching all the time.

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That's so retro it hurts.

Looks awesome to me. Definitely picking it up.

Yeah I like the look of it, and if enough people buy them then blu-ray might become even more standard than it already is. I feel like there is a fairly large group of people who would watch blu rays but don't want to bother with buying a player or a ps3. Now both ps3/4 peeps and xbox gamers will have blu ray to work with. Also games. On 50GB disks. With full asset quality. (Of course hypothetical) Yes please.

HDMI passthrough is something I wasn't expecting, and a really cool feature. Given I use my monitor for pc and consoles it should make life a little easier if I ever choose to get one... which I probably won't.
The controller looks like they changed the design just to change the design. Besides for the new d-pad it has the same functionality :S
8 core cpu ohh god its true it runs on bulldozer my power bill is going to be like $9999999999

Question, could Sony have stopped microsoft from using blu-ray if they wanted to? I haven't been following blu-ray since it came out, don't know if its exclusively their call or not.

Fucking assholes. There can be only one Xbox 1! And that's the one which came out in 2001. Fuck you and your marketing team.

I have a few major beefs already, Microsoft:

A.) Why did you move the buttons around on the controller? The placement on the 360 was inferior to the controller-S, and this one is inferior to the 360. The guide button up top? What the hell? Looks as awkward as it probably is to use.

B.) No backwards compatibility? Why? The original Xbox was x86, so don't tell me incompatible architecture is the reason. You also emulated backwards compatibility on the 360, so that's even more of a nail in your coffin. Face it, all you want to do is sell me your streaming service. Well, I'm not buying; go fuck yourself.

C.) Kinect loves you, Big Brother loves you! :tinfoil:

D.) Encouraging developers to use Azure for games...go fuck yourselves again, Microsoft.

E.) Too much focus on the living room, not enough on the games. People who already own home entertainment systems are going to look at this and say "Why?" They already have TV, they already have Blu-Ray (and thus DVD) capabilities, and chances are they've already got game consoles hooked up. Since many upcoming games are still going to be released on the PS3 and the Xbox 360, not to mention PC, I suspect that people are not going to be flocking to this thing.

F.) Speaking of PC, who the hell would buy this when they can take the cost of this, apply it to the PC they already own or are going to own shortly, and then have a much more versatile platform that costs less over time? This is the most complex "console" I have ever seen, so it's pretty much lost the "ease of use" advantage consoles had in the past.

G.) As far as looks...it's okay. I don't mind that it's square...I'm cool with and actually like that. What I don't like are the clashing halves; that's not even retro, that's just shoddy design work. If this is supposed to blend in with a modern home theatre set-up, they have some changes to make because it's going to stick out. Badly. Aside from all of that, the original Xbox has more pizazz, even for a brick...

Ok, I lied, I have more than a few beefs. I have lots of beefs. This is not a console, this is a closed PC that is attempting to kill the consumer PC. Watch, you'll eventually see Microsoft Office on this thing...

All I have to really say is this: the more the large corporations continue to push their fucking subscription-based bullshit, the further away I run. I'm not doing it. I refuse to do it. You have no right to be making such easy money at the expense of features and usability when compared to the older, product-type versions of whatever shoddy service you fuckers are peddling. Take your cloud and go shove it up where the sun don't shine, cock-bites.

R.I.P. actual consoles.

Edit:
H.) Requires an internet connection once every 24 hours. So much for not being always online! I use my Xboxes to play single player games and they are thus not usually plugged into the internet. So not buying this shit...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

B.) No backwards compatibility? Why? The original Xbox was x86, so don't tell me incompatible architecture is the reason.

---

Not sure I can blame them for not trying to emulate a tri-core PPC CPU on an x86 CPU in software. The Xenon is far more complex than the Pentium 3 that the Xbox used.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

H.) Requires an internet connection once every 24 hours. So much for not being always online! I use my Xboxes to play single player games and they are thus not usually plugged into the internet. So not buying this shit...

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Still hasn't been confirmed. May want to wait a bit longer to make a judgement call on it.

@Btcc22: then at least let me play my original XBOX games on the new console, which is what I'm more concerned about considering that the console is ancient and won't last forever (will probably outlast any 360, though). I honestly don't have many, if any, 360 favourites so no love lost there, but damn. Talk about getting greedy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobblehob

Still hasn't been confirmed. May want to wait a bit longer to make a judgement call on it.

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But it has been.

Also, they will probably be offering incentives for developers to take advantage of Azure, which would mean their games are streamed rather than played locally. This would compel users to pay subscription fees. Nuts to that. Even for Arcade games, nuts to that.

Man I got into the PC game at the right time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

@Btcc22: then at least let me play my original XBOX games on the new console, which is what I'm more concerned about considering that the console is ancient and won't last forever (will probably outlast any 360, though). I honestly don't have many, if any, 360 favourites so no love lost there, but damn. Talk about getting greedy.



But it has been.

Also, they will probably be offering incentives for developers to take advantage of Azure, which would mean their games are streamed rather than played locally. This would compel users to pay subscription fees. Nuts to that. Even for Arcade games, nuts to that.

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Oof, thats a bit of a tough thing to argue with. I still would hope that it gets retracted or someshit but I doubt it at this point :\

As far as the backwards compatibility is concerned, they may do something like the PS4 and make older games available on the arcade. I really hope so...


Edit: Some of the features are interesting, and the thought of 15 exclusive titles (8 of which are new IP's) in the first year is very enticing, but this other shit overshadows it.

And what if the majority of those 15 titles are some stupid kinect game?

For me, they shot themselves in the foot. E3 will determine if they go the extra mile and stuff a primed grenade in their pants.

Microsoft upon exiting the conference and being asked about incentives for gamers:

"What are games?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobblehob

Oof, thats a bit of a tough thing to argue with. I still would hope that it gets retracted or someshit but I doubt it at this point :\

As far as the backwards compatibility is concerned, they may do something like the PS4 and make older games available on the arcade. I really hope so...


Edit: Some of the features are interesting, and the thought of 15 exclusive titles (8 of which are new IP's) in the first year is very enticing, but this other shit overshadows it.

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But PS4 will do so with streaming, something I am vehemently opposed to on principle. I will not pay a subscription of something that will see only occasional use. They are banking on the majority of people signing up using the services occasionally, which means they can rake in money while not having to deal with clogged pipelines. Even if the demand and usage does go up, they simply add caps and/or jack up prices. These are the same tactics used by telecoms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Microsoft upon exiting the conference and being asked about incentives for gamers:

"What areis games drugs?"

---

It doesn't look like I'll be getting this thing. There were a couple of things I was looking for in the next console.

• BluRay - I never bought a dedicated DVD player. I used the PS2 to watch my DVDs. Back then, dedicated DVD players ranged from 100 to 200 USD. The PS2 controller was a superior remote control as well. When I got my xbox to increase our Halo LAN player pool size, I used it for DVDs to keep from switching inputs all the time. The 360 replaced it when I got that since it upres'd better. I didn't get a PS3, and my OEM BR drive in my PC requires me to purchase a license in the form of any third party BR player software to have the codecs for me to watch the one bluray movie I got (Kill Bill I/II for 5 bucks). Fuck that. I'm glad I didn't dump money into a more expensive title first. The next console I buy will need to fill in where my DVD consoles did for BR.
• Do something I don't already do. Sadly, this is pretty much what it comes to for games. I'm very picky when it comes to games, and if a game is cross platform to PC I'll wind up buying it there. The only exception I've made for this would be Mirror's Edge. For some reason I feel that game is made more for console than PC. Origin games from EA are also something I'll buy on console over PC, but that's for the sake of fuck origin. Netflixbox is pretty much what my 360 turned into. Eventually I gave that up and hooked it into my Ultrasharp, so it's not even that anymore. TV.in is cool and all, but I don't watch TV anymore. It's all commercials and reality TV shows. History channel is no longer history, et all.
• Work how I want it to work when I want it to work. If I want to play at my desk with the thing hooked up to one of my ultrasharps passing audio through my PC, I don't want to be riddled with having to do special things with Kinect/Move. I want to be able to sit at arms length from my screen leaning back with my feet up on the desk. If I go to a LAN, I dont want some random fucker passing by to say, "Xbox off". I've already laughed at Microsoft on this one because it takes the console away from esports. A year or two ago, I went without home internet for about seven or eight months. Fortunately, I was in school and was able to make use of a connection there. I played the Reach beta in the labs while rendering across six workstations. I played the Reach SP enough that when I finally signed into Live to play multiplayer, I lost rank and suddenly go no more experience from SP missions (pretty much killed any desire for me to play the game anymore right there). I dont want to be bogged down with online requirements and right now the VP over xbox has said that the console needs auth at least once a day to work.
• Do something to make me look cool. Owning the thing won't cut it here since I'm not in <strike>high</strike>middle school anymore. Pretty much all that's left in this regard is to push my CryEngine stuff to the console. For the current gen, that involves a stupid amount of paperwork, an office phone line (for some reason), and an upfront licensing fee for good measure. That's after the approval process is finished :\. Sony talked about the PS4 being friendlier to indies. On the surface it means they don't inject themselves into your iterations to make sure you know how to make a game, but the benefit to this is easier platform licensing. If you've got confirmation on platform licensing with a console dev, Crytek hands you the folder for synching to the console. Should that happen to the PS4, instabuy for me.

Doesn't VLC play Blu-Rays now, removing the need for premium decoder software?

Yep, PC gaming is sounding really good about now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Doesn't VLC play Blu-Rays now, removing the need for premium decoder software?

---

I thought they did, but I've yet to get it working.

The most important thing from the release is that 343 and Steven Spielberg are teaming up to make a live action Halo TV show.

I am viewing that with copious amounts of salt. If it's as cornball as the Forward Unto Dawn miniseries was, his reputation could be sullied forever...like the next M. Night Shyamalan.

I'm on the fence about that entire thing, we'll see how it turns out.

I'm not very knowledgable about this kind of stuff, but I will admit that the inclusion of Bluray might be convincing enough for me to stick with Microsoft. There's no real difference between the consoles nowadays anyways.

Looks like junk, based on what they showed yesterday. The controller looks uncomfortable. The X360 controller looks better for ergonomics. The new controller's dark tones are nicer, but the XYBA buttons are ugly as hell. Put them back to the signature jewel design.
http://i.imgur.com/iMBQSVf.jpg

Lol, good job M$.

They definitely need to unfuck themselves for E3 because this is pretty much all I got out of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...;v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

Hell, even Sony's stock value went up after the reveal today.

And let me just say this before a new thread gets dedicated to it: CoD Ghosts is a steaming pile of crap. "Pushing the genre forward" but they showed nothing new. The engine looks like the next iteration of the engine they used for all previous CoD games. Really, you'd think with the amount of money Activision rake in they'd be able to get someone to actually create something that presents itself as next-gen.

Attachment 3200 Attachment 3201

BC1 looked fucking better than this:

http://i.imgur.com/yqm5hNO.jpg

Funny you compared it to BC1 because that is exactly what I did over on Kotaku...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

Fucking assholes. There can be only one Xbox 1! And that's the one which came out in 2001. Fuck you and your marketing team.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackalStomper

Windows 3.1 -> 95 -> 3.51 -> 4.0 -> 98 > 2000 -> XP -> 2003 -> vista -> 2008 -> 7

Xbox -> Xbox 360 -> Xbox 8 one

Microsoft once again showing the world that they don't know how to count.

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.

It seems that the PS4 has better specs than this.

Well, the actual specs have been pretty hushed so far.

Seen various claiming it has 8GB of DDR3 with 3 gigs dedicated to the OS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeph

It doesn't look like I'll be getting this thing. There were a couple of things I was looking for in the next console.

• BluRay - I never bought a dedicated DVD player. I used the PS2 to watch my DVDs. Back then, dedicated DVD players ranged from 100 to 200 USD. The PS2 controller was a superior remote control as well. When I got my xbox to increase our Halo LAN player pool size, I used it for DVDs to keep from switching inputs all the time. The 360 replaced it when I got that since it upres'd better. I didn't get a PS3, and my OEM BR drive in my PC requires me to purchase a license in the form of any third party BR player software to have the codecs for me to watch the one bluray movie I got (Kill Bill I/II for 5 bucks). Fuck that. I'm glad I didn't dump money into a more expensive title first. The next console I buy will need to fill in where my DVD consoles did for BR.

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Your other points are valid, but I'm not entirely certain if you know or not: Xbox One has a blu-ray player.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arbiter901

It seems that the PS4 has better specs than this.

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Not by much. http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS...mparison_Chart

After reading some more things in this thread, I think I will be buying a PS4 rather than this piece of crap. I don't even buy exclusive games anymore, so why would I go with something that will have worse graphics and be based around my "entertainment experience" that I could just use my PC for in the first place?

Can they just come out with a SNES that uses dual GTX Titans and call it good?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PlasbianX

Not by much. http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS...mparison_Chart

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if that's real (I've yet to see anything official on the memory) then the xbone is going to fucking suck. APUs thrive on memory bandwidth. The CPU would suffer a bit should it be GDDR5 from the increased timings, but the GPU wouldn't be able to do much with such a small bus.

There's no such thing as GDDR5 RAM, aside from graphics cards, so I don't know what that site is smoking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CabooseJr

Yep, PC gaming is sounding really good about now.

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This. So much of this. I think I'm just gonna save up and when my current 360 kicks the bucket I'll either buy or build a gaming rig. That Xbox sports tv conference did nothing for me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThePlague

There's no such thing as GDDR5 RAM, aside from graphics cards, so I don't know what that site is smoking.

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You have no clue what GDDR5 actually is, do you.
You know, that's the reason why you won't be adding it to your newegg shopping cart.

Best fucking thing ever:

http://i.minus.com/iBzvb2JSpQNRM.gif

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/x...-playstation-4

Gotta love anandtech.
Looks like PS4 has one and a half times the processing power as the xbone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeph

You have no clue what GDDR5 actually is, do you.
You know, that's the reason why you won't be adding it to your newegg shopping cart.

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That was a herp derp on my part. Forgot how the Xbox is put together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeph

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/x...-playstation-4

Gotta love anandtech.
Looks like PS4 has one and a half times the processing power as the xbone.

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What I got out of this is that PS4 has a better GPU, period, but the memory bandwidth management on both is comparable; Sony is just brute-forcing it with a "more is better" approach while Microsoft is potentially getting clever with cache management to do more with less.

In the end, I sincerely doubt the PS4's hardware advantage will amount to much because most publishers will be developing games to the lowest common denominator: the Xbox One. Only the exclusives are really going to benefit from those extra stream processors. Basically, PS4 users will be putting up with what PC users have been for the last decade: console ports. :p

Edit: why the hell is the Xbox running two OSes in a VM configuration and not just doing everything from one OS? How is this in any way efficient? Are they doing this just so they can claim it's not a glorified, closed Windows box?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

What I got out of this is that PS4 has a better GPU, period, but the memory bandwidth management on both is comparable; Sony is just brute-forcing it with a "more is better" approach while Microsoft is potentially getting clever with cache management to do more with less.

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Well, it really all depends on how that extra 32MB is used. The 10MB on the 360 allowed it to do a lot, including free AA.

Quote:

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In the end, I sincerely doubt the PS4's hardware advantage will amount to much because most publishers will be developing games to the lowest common denominator: the Xbox One. Only the exclusives are really going to benefit from those extra stream processors. Basically, PS4 users will be putting up with what PC users have been for the last decade: console ports. :p

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Considering they're both x86-64 I think this will be less of a thing. Consoles for today's games are the LCD, but that entails using a lower level on the LOD tree and a mip one tick down. The current generation of console doesn't rely on compute, whereas this one will. Developers won't underperform on the PS4 when it's a 50% difference in terms of cores.

Quote:

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Edit: why the hell is the Xbox running two OSes in a VM configuration and not just doing everything from one OS? How is this in any way efficient? Are they doing this just so they can claim it's not a glorified, closed Windows box?

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Power states.

• Every game is required to be installed to hard drive.
• Hard drive space is 500GB, but the system uses a significant amount of that.
• Requires Kinect to be connected to work any functionality of the Xbox One.
• All the TV shit is not available outside of US upon launch - so basically 50% of the console won't work for me at launch.
• No red ring light system.

Realistic lighting in COD Ghost

XBone is a pretty sweet nickname though. Calling rule 34 on that one~

Updated first post with comparisons and more pics that were posted around here, along with the reveal video Amit posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeph

Well, it really all depends on how that extra 32MB is used. The 10MB on the 360 allowed it to do a lot, including free AA.


Considering they're both x86-64 I think this will be less of a thing. Consoles for today's games are the LCD, but that entails using a lower level on the LOD tree and a mip one tick down. The current generation of console doesn't rely on compute, whereas this one will. Developers won't underperform on the PS4 when it's a 50% difference in terms of cores.


Power states.

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But...Windows 8 can do power states all by itself...

I just figured they'd develop for the LCD just for cost reasons. Don't have to make the models and textures as high resolution, spend less time on the assets and therefore less money. They may just use those extra resources for better AA and AF. I hope I'm wrong, it'll be awesome if so, but you know how certain industry parties are...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

But...Windows 8 can do power states all by itself...

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But windows is a pretty shit way to interface your software with the hardware. It's there for the stuff that doesn't need much power. Running it as one VM with the game os on another VM is just simple when it comes to a unified memory space and rendering to the frame buffer.

Quote:

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I just figured they'd develop for the LCD just for cost reasons. Don't have to make the models and textures as high resolution, spend less time on the assets and therefore less money. They may just use those extra resources for better AA and AF. I hope I'm wrong, it'll be awesome if so, but you know how certain industry parties are...

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The LCD in this case is the game's logic design. Visually, things scale dependent on the hardware because artists take the effort to make the most out of what's available to them. You can easily cut render overhead by lowering vertext/polycount and texture space, but if your code is using up too much time nothing can be done. If anything was shown from this brief is that people don't like to fucking read and they don't care about anything if there's not something to look at. This console hardware can be a netbook, but if you show a cinematic that looks fucking amazing the brief would be a success.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackalStomper

.

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Except there's a difference between Windows 9x and everything else. Everything else is NT based (the 9x series wasn't). And XP was Windows-5 'for the consumer' (Win2000 being the actual Win5). Windows Server are just variants of the NT builds (2003 is a variant of NT 5).

NT 3.x -> NT 4.x -> 2000/XP -> Vista (NT 6.x) -> 7 (NT 6.x) -> 8 (NT 6.x)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

B.) No backwards compatibility? Why? The original Xbox was x86, so don't tell me incompatible architecture is the reason. You also emulated backwards compatibility on the 360, so that's even more of a nail in your coffin. Face it, all you want to do is sell me your streaming service. Well, I'm not buying; go fuck yourself.

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The original Xbox was 32-bit. XBone is 64-bit. While x86-64 makes it possible to run 32-bit stuff without actual emulation, it doesn't mean it's a freebee to implement into the OS. DX8 to DX9 wasn't that big of a transition. However, the transition from DX8 to DX11 is. Besides the software emulation needed, they would also have to emulate the hardware, and in the case of game discs, would have to support some of that hardware.

So yeah, there is an incompatible architecture. Plus there's the issue of marketing "Xbox One is backwards compatible with Xbox 1 games!". Face it, it just gives MS a chance to make HA10 2.0. Not H2A10, but HA10 2.0. H2A10 comes next year. Then Halo 5 in 2015. Then Halo Wars 2 shortly before they announce the Xbox Infinity in 2023.

But they've shown in the past that they were willing to write a software emulation layer so all of that goes out of the window anyway. I'm willing to foot the bill for a console that can play my old games and I suspect I'm not alone. It is called the Xbox One, right, as in one device does everything?

One box to rule them all
One box to find them
One box to bring them all
And in the Darkness, bind them!

I'm all for H2A10! Though this time, they are free to actually change the game play and rework the levels. Please do so, 343i, because H2 was balls. Can I get a Brute Force 2? It'll be just like the Xbox 1 days on my Xbox One!

BTW:
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18of.../ku-xlarge.jpg

Progress!

that looks a whole lot better too lmao.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

While x86-64 makes it possible to run 32-bit stuff without actual emulation, it doesn't mean it's a freebee to implement into the OS.

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Even though every 64-bit Windows can run 32-bit code just fine. What's not free about it if the support is already there?

I can't see getting games that target Direct3D 8 running to be much of a problem either. Last I checked, I can still run them just fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

Besides the software emulation needed, they would also have to emulate the hardware, and in the case of game discs, would have to support some of that hardware.

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What extra hardware would they need to handle Xbox discs? I can't think of anything.

I'm going to take a guess and say that it's not technical barriers preventing them from providing compatibility but more because they assume nobody cares about decade old games.

Good thing I didn't sell my original Xbox then. I can still play Pariah and Republic Commando. :-3

Ha, same here! But it's old, and won't last forever. It's nice to know there is still a currently supported means of playing old games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

But it's old, and won't last forever.

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Bet you can get a couple of decades out of it even if you have to replace the hard and DVD drives along the way. ;)

Although, now that I think about it, the two that I mentioned are up for grabs on PC. I'm sure I can buy them used for $5 a piece.

Heh, I don't think I'd ever get away for saying that if I bought the Xbox One.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Btcc22

Even though every 64-bit Windows can run 32-bit code just fine. What's not free about it if the support is already there?

I can't see getting games that target Direct3D 8 running to be much of a problem either. Last I checked, I can still run them just fine.



What extra hardware would they need to handle Xbox discs? I can't think of anything.

I'm going to take a guess and say that it's not technical barriers preventing them from providing compatibility but more because they assume nobody cares about decade old games.

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Xbox One's OS != Windows OS. It runs it 'just fine' thanks to WoW64. Developing/maintaining that is not free. These are low-level consoles, people. Unlike on the PC, devs can do things like access memory directly (it's how we did screenshot support for H2 Yelo, by reading directly from the NV framebuffer memory). To top it off, the Win32 API's from Xbox1 don't directly match those on the PC (back then, or today). The kernel and API differences have been the major hurdles for Xbox LLE on the PC.

And the issue is they would need to emulate the drivers for DX8 (and not just DX8, but Xbox1's DX8). You can run them just fine because you have to install the DX8 redist before playing such games. The Xbox One is NOT a PC. The more backwards compatibility they have to add and manage, the more overhead there is in development and system resources. They already spent those resources on TV, TV, sports, TV, COD, TV, sports.

They would have to support the Xbox1 disc 'hardware'. It may be a DVD, but the filesystem isn't.

The way they see it, the 360 already can emulate most Xbox1 games. And the 360 is still on the market. There's no sensible reason to throw resources at getting One to support 1 (and it's not like they can just use what they wrote for the 360, seeing as how that was PPC).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

The way they see it, the 360 already can emulate most Xbox1 games. And the 360 is still on the market. There's no sensible reason to throw resources at getting One to support 1 (and it's not like they can just use what they wrote for the 360, seeing as how that was PPC).

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Careful man, you're talkin an awful lot of sense there.

Okay, so EB games NZ has released their place holder price on the Xbox One to be $1199 https://www.ebgames.co.nz/xbox-360-156131-Xbox-One-Console-Placeholder-Price-Xbox-360

I hit up trademe and had a look at what I can get for the same price for a PC. The first on the list was http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/d...-595693592.htm which, other than the CPU is twice the Xbox One.

Don't think I'll be getting an Xbox when this one comes out.

The CPU in the Xbox One and PS4 is nothing more than AMD's equivalent to an Atom processor, with eight cores. It's not exactly a shining pinnacle of general computing prowess. I'd wager I can get similar performance out of my 4-core, 8-thread i7, if not better, since I'm running those cores at 3.6 GHz.

$962.80 USD for that placeholder price, that can't possibly be right. No one will buy one.

MS has to pay Nvidia royalties for every 360 model that included a hard drive and every hard drive sold separately. Since an HDD was required for emulation, they could sell Arcade units royalty-free. So, even with software emulation, they were still boned by the terms of that original design contract.

I'm trying to recall what we used as shorthand for the original Xbox. I think we just mostly called it, "xbox", with a sprinkling of XBX and some "XB" here and there for the truly committed to brevity. I figure this one will be called X1, or XB1, or XBX1. I'll make the effort to call it "The Bone", though. And I'll retroactively dub the original Xbox the Mark 1.

Anybody remember that the Gamecube was officially the "GCN"? I kind of liked that, because you could always tell who real toolbots were, because they were the only ones that would use it. It was NGC or just GC to every objective observer.

But back to the topic, they should have named it xxxXBOXxxx.

I read "GCN" as "Graphics Core Next," which is AMD's term for their current GPU architecture and thus also the architecture in these new consoles.

The Xbox gets referred to as the OG Xbox or XBOX, and if you are talking about a game that was on multiple platforms (i.e. Halo) you say H1X (instead of Halo PC). That's how it was on HaloMods, anyways.

I'm calling it the Xbone. It's too fitting to not use.

To go with my last picture:
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18og.../ku-xlarge.jpg

requesting thread title to be adjusted to "xBone"

Does that make people who buy it...xboners?

lolwat

Someone at EA needs to stop smoking crack

I wouldn't scoff at that. The Windows environment and open spec of PC's don't allow developers to wring out all the juice the way they can on a fixed console platform. Also, both companies are banking on their data transfer optimizations and caches to make a huge difference in performance.

We'll see for ourselves, but it has always taken PC's a little while to catch back up with a newly-released console. TFLOPS and clock speeds don't tell the whole story.

They're not on crack, they just don't understand the idea behind SoC and how it relates to PC. The way the consoles are configured, they are a generation ahead of PCs. The way APUs (what they call SoCs here) are retailed, they're severely lacking. When AMD bought ATI to make APUs, they imagined users buying system RAM and graphics RAM to plug into their motherboard. This would better allow users to scale their machine based on how they use it (gaming versus office work, single monitor versus multimonitor, etc.).

The thing they don't pay attention to is that the PC flag is essentially running inbetween 4k and 8k at levels of detail these consoles never will should 4k ever happen. They're concerned about laptop graphics, mid-range PCs, and the like since that's what their price point converts to (600 dollar console plus TV).

Launch titles on these platforms will look every bit as good as a PC game in 1080p. Second generation games on these platforms will look better than PCs at 1080p. Third generation will look unbelievable for the price, but Titans will barely be able to play modern PC games at this time. Compare Halo 3 to Reach and you'll find vast improvements in the number of assets populating a level, particle count exploded, and model detail went up greatly. Textures even went up in quality slightly since they moved from power of two texture sizes to multiples of power of two sizes. Even then, comparing Halo 3 and Reach to titles that came out along the same time in the PC realm is no contest as the console aged.

Which is exactly why Epic had to drop their expectations for their Unreal Engine 4 demo:

http://www.pcper.com/files/fixed/ue4_pcvps4.gif

Sure it was running on pre-release Dev Kits, but The Elemental Demo (along with the Samaritan demo) is what Epic demoed to console developers to show what is possible.

For reference, the Samaritan demo (which is approximately equal to the Elemental demo) required about 2.5 teraFLOPs. The PS4 has theoretically just under 2 teraFLOPs.

So yes, the PS4 (which has a larger GPU than the Xbox One... PS4: 18 CUs w/ 1152 shader units vs Xbox: 12 CUs w/ 768 shader units) is less powerful than Samaritan requires under 100% perfect utilization assumption... no amount of optimization can solve that.

Now will titles look better than the Samaritan Demo? Yeah, that's almost a guarantee... but it'll come at the expense it always does: dropping resolution, reducing particle counts, reducing textures, and cheating in other hardish-to-notice ways.

But it's still a cheat, the consoles physically cannot keep up with PCs from 2011 or even what Epic hoped consoles would be capable of. Period.

((For reference, the demo ran on a single 680 which has theoretical performance of about 3.09 teraFLOPs... so there was a litttttle play/optimization room on the PC... but the PS4 and Xbox One theoretically just cannot achieve it. No amount of optimization will allow that; again, it's theoretically not possible without sacrificing one thing to bolster another.))

Also -- VLC's BluRay support works great but they legally cannot provide the key database without paying license fees. There's at least one which "exists somewhere on the internet" that is just plug-and-play though.

Yeah, that puts the xbone at roughly half of what would be needed to run those demos.

And I would, >_>, <_<, >_>, love to personally get VLC BR support.

The way I understand it, the consoles will be calculating more meaningful floating point operations than a graphics card on a PC is capable of doing. To reach those theoretical limits, a PC GPU is performing the same small set of calculation on a small set of data over and over again, because it can't move new data into its local caches quickly enough. These new consoles were designed specifically to alleviate that problem and so their theoretical limits are more meaningful numbers than the current PC-equivalent.

I have a 670 that I got less than a year ago. I would love it if that was still at the top of the heap and the PC versions of games were still the best looking. I don't think that's going to be the case, however. And this stuff from EA, where they're seeing actual benchmarks... you can't really argue with that.

Nah, the 2.5 teraFLOPs calculation comes from 40,000 calcs/pixel x 1920 x 1080 pixels/frame x 30 frames/second. That is not possible on a console even with zero overhead.

And yes, you can argue with companies when they talk out their butts -- especially EA. Madden 2006 anyone?

http://www.gearlive.com/blogimages/madnextgen.jpg

Why are you guys even comparing console specs? When did that even become a thing? Console specs were always just a random point of interest that no one every really paid attention to.

These specs are pitiful when compared to PC's.

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Originally Posted by Cortexian

Why are you guys even comparing console specs? When did that even become a thing?

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When EA did :3

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Originally Posted by Cortexian

Why are you guys even comparing console specs? When did that even become a thing? Console specs were always just a random point of interest that no one every really paid attention to.

These specs are pitiful when compared to PC's.

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If you can build me a better box for $500, then go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Phopojijo

When EA did :3

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I know that I will be instantly corrected if I am wrong, but the point of the EA article wasnt to try to prove that the hardware in the box is more powerful in terms of clock speeds and such.

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Originally Posted by TVTyrant

If you can build me a better box for $500, then go ahead.

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It isn't really comparing those specs to a PC, but how the games will run on it, what use you'll be getting out of it, the amount of usage you'll get out of it, etc.

If I were to choose to have an Xbox One, or building a computer for the same or around same price, i'd choose the PC. Just because of the sheer capabilities it has for everyday usage, compared to trying to spend all day on the couch yelling at the TV screen trying to get the xbox to do shit for you.

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Originally Posted by TVTyrant

If you can build me a better box for $500, then go ahead.

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Microsoft and Sony won't even be able to build either their own consoles for $500... they may sell it to you for that... but that is not how much it actually costs to make.

Hell, the PS3 at launch had $805 parts and labour... that's not including research, development, and marketing; just parts and labour... and that was the $499 20GB one. A $306 direct per-system loss.

It's the license fees which makes a console cost more than a PC. When you buy a $60 game? You're buying a $50 game and giving Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo a $10 tip.

Hell... 4 years of Xbox Live fees is a Radeon HD 7870... and this is a time where GPU prices are trending high... imagine if manufacturers feel the urge to price cut? A 7870 will play any game with decent settings for the next 4 years. If you go by that metric, PC gaming is basically free if you decide to not buy Xbox Live Gold.

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Originally Posted by TVTyrant

If you can build me a better box for $500, then go ahead.

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Hold on now, don't forget that extra controller you want ($50), and what about games? It's s gaming console right, or is it a television box, either way games are going to cost you $60 a pop.

We're up to $610 with just games and a second controller for a friend now.

Wait, you want to play your games online? There's another $60 a year. $670 initially.

But seriously, who only plays one game? Lets throw a couple more in there in the first month or two. $790.

So we're actually talking about an $800 startup fee. I can build a good gaming tower that will play current games at fairly decent settings for the same amount. It's proven that PC is cheaper in the long run as well, you may spend $1,000 - $1,500 for a great tower but you only pay $15 a game or less due to the awesome deals. Not to mention all of the awesome Free 2 Play games available on PC, good luck enjoying those on any console ever without having to pay for some kind of subscription access fee. There's probably even more hidden fees involved in the new "one experience" bullshit. I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of the TV features (ex: Netflix) cost more as well...

It's just cheaper to go with a PC in the long run. Not to mention you can do a lot more with a PC than you can with a console. You can do them all at the same time as well.

And Epic calls bullshit.

https://twitter.com/MarkRein/status/337627995323895808

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Mark Rein @MarkRein
RT @developonline: EA: Xbox One and PS4 a generation ahead of PC http://www.develop-online.net/news/44289/EA-Xbox-One-and-PS4-a-generation-ahead-of-PC … <-no they’re not. I call bullshit on this one.

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Seriously? My 4-year-old piece of shit computer has better specs than the Xbone.

So are we done trying to figure out who's dick is bigger? Jesus.

It's not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the ocean. How the pieces fit together is what matters in the PC vs console differences. Both in the hardware and software. Consoles don't need printing services. They don't need to have a background service for indexing. They don't need to run virus scans or defrag*. Hence why the fucking consoles don't need the stupid amount of bullshit the PC tryhards build today, because they don't inherently need the extra resources. Their OS, services, and programs aren't all running like a giant clusterfuck. Users aren't running a browser with 50 tabs open to youtube or some Flash-enabled site while rendering a monument to the cock they wish they had (right down to the pubes) and playing Crysis. And touching themselves. They're just watching TV and sports-derp like normal gam- FUCKING MICROSOFT. And touching themselves.

* I wonder who will be the first to miss the point and bring up SSDs?

Am I the only one who really likes the design? Reminds me of back to the roots NES

I think the design is alright, everything together is pretty good. I just don't know how you could possible improve on the controller though, since I felt (literally) that the 360 one was perfect. They did mention they've added vibration/rumble to the triggers though, which sounds like it'll be awesome.

By the way, Kinect has grown up a shit ton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4

It's just a tech demo obviously, but it is all real-time still and the possibilities for Kinect's integration into the entire experience in the next few years should be awesome. I'll definitely love the auto-sign in when it recognizes my roommate joining in while I'm playing.

Did I miss anything from that video? Put this on first post.

Outlined in the Kinect Video:

• Detects minute things like buttons on your shirt, and can easily detect any movement.
• Can log you in automatically once you pickup a controller, and logs which player you are based on the controller
• Has IR, 3D, and HD imaging capabilities
• If you move places the screen moves to your side. EX: switching to another side of the couch while playing split-screen, the screen will switch to the side you're on.
• The video handled 5 people at once on the screen, created bones and everything for them.
• Monitors your heart rate
• Monitors your expressions

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

So are we done trying to figure out who's dick is bigger? Jesus.

It's not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the ocean. How the pieces fit together is what matters in the PC vs console differences. Both in the hardware and software. Consoles don't need printing services. They don't need to have a background service for indexing. They don't need to run virus scans or defrag*. Hence why the fucking consoles don't need the stupid amount of bullshit the PC tryhards build today, because they don't inherently need the extra resources. Their OS, services, and programs aren't all running like a giant clusterfuck. Users aren't running a browser with 50 tabs open to youtube or some Flash-enabled site while rendering a monument to the cock they wish they had (right down to the pubes) and playing Crysis. And touching themselves. They're just watching TV and sports-derp like normal gam- FUCKING MICROSOFT. And touching themselves.

* I wonder who will be the first to miss the point and bring up SSDs?

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Chicken and egg, man. Would people do all of that with a console if they could? Probably. It's just not convenient to do so, so they don't.

You know, it's almost like they're marketing this console towards the (massive) fifa/maden/cod/sports watching crowd...It's almost like they know exactly what they're doing...

Plague, I believe it was shown that it didn't matter which controller you had, it knew who you were regardless.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Chicken and egg, man. Would people do all of that with a console if they could? Probably. It's just not convenient to do so, so they don't.

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At which point it wouldn't be a console, nor cost the same as one. It would just be another freak in the freak kingdom. I mean PC.

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Originally Posted by PenGuin1362

You know, it's almost like they're marketing this console towards the (massive) fifa/maden/cod/sports watching crowd...It's almost like they know exactly what they're doing...

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:frogout2:

It's headed there. Consoles and PCs are going to hit a convergence point and that's when we'll see whether open computing will defeat closed computing...again.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

It's headed there. Consoles and PCs are going to hit a convergence point and that's when we'll see whether open computing will defeat closed computing...again.

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If hardware was as CPU-reliant as it was nearly ten years ago you'd be correct. These consoles moved too far into the PC domain. The PS4 is going exactly wherever the GTX 670 will go while the xbone will die out with the GTX5 580 (this is very generous). To keep up, you've got to move consoles back to a 5-6 year refresh rate maximum. Anyone here still game with an 8800GTX? That came out six years ago. We've gone from .35 teraFLOPs to 3.9 teraFLOPs in just those six years. How well do you think a GTX 780 will compare to a 42 teraFLOPs card? Definitely twice as well as the PS4 and thrice as well as the xbone :p.

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Originally Posted by ODX

I just don't know how you could possible improve on the controller though, since I felt (literally) that the 360 one was perfect.

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Have you seen the D-Pad on it?

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

:frogout2:

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I'm not a fan of sequels D:

:lol:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/543bc8293...302to1_500.png

BAH HA HA HA HA.

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Originally Posted by Zeph

If hardware was as CPU-reliant as it was nearly ten years ago you'd be correct. These consoles moved too far into the PC domain. The PS4 is going exactly wherever the GTX 670 will go while the xbone will die out with the GTX5 580 (this is very generous). To keep up, you've got to move consoles back to a 5-6 year refresh rate maximum. Anyone here still game with an 8800GTX? That came out six years ago. We've gone from .35 teraFLOPs to 3.9 teraFLOPs in just those six years. How well do you think a GTX 780 will compare to a 42 teraFLOPs card? Definitely twice as well as the PS4 and thrice as well as the xbone :p.

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It's not actually the hardware alone that will determine this, it's market perception. If the Xbox gets big and sells enough as a general computing name, we might see the consumer PC as we know it shift from open box to closed box, and I think that's exactly what Microsoft wants. Remember that, outside of gaming, your computational horsepower really doesn't matter all that much to the general consumer. There's always that paradigm-changing "good enough" level, a level which the PC reached almost ten years ago. That means consoles have already passed that, it's just that the software is evolving to leverage it.

Actually I expect the web browser will ultimately become the operating system. It really will not matter what the underlying system is because everything will ultimately rely upon Web Standards which any browser can run. If a browser can't run it, then that browser will bleed market share.

At that point, the only thing to worry about is how much power is behind it.

And before you say it, you can do a crazy amount of stuff in a web browser and it is only getting better.

Large applications are being compiled into Javascript with nearing-C++ performance
... even some applications you wouldn't expect to be possible in Web Standards

... and I haven't even talked about WebCL yet.