Modacity shooters' thread

[Spartan094]

*watches as Russia places a bunch of silly ITAR style restrictions on firearms stuff*
Doubt it, I'm sure they realize there's a huge market right now, but then again you could be right.

But if your wrong, my body is ready for cheap prices like back in the 90's.

[TVTyrant]

Doubt it, I'm sure they realize there's a huge market right now, but then again you could be right.

But if your wrong, my body is ready for cheap prices like back in the 90's.
:parrot:

[Tnnaas]

Doubt it, I'm sure they realize there's a huge market right now, but then again you could be right.

But if your wrong, my body is ready for cheap prices like back in the 90's.
:eng101: you're*

[Spartan094]

:eng101: you're*
Nargh fuck you, to excited over this shit to give a fuck about spelling

Deal with it.

[PenGuin1362]

74u....that is all.

[Warsaw]

Gun is a PoS. It's more of a trophy item than an actually useful firearm, which is why they replaced it with the AK-105.

[PenGuin1362]

Still love the look of it. Really any authentic, wood furniture Russian AK would be nice at this point

[TVTyrant]

Still love the look of it. Really any authentic, wood furniture Russian AK would be nice at this point
Wood stock Russian AKMs? *Dies of over salivation*

[Spartan094]

Can't wait, cheap cheap cheap prices.

Also.....pricey sucker, Mosin Nagant 91/38 Sestroryetsk
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276456789

[TVTyrant]

The description says why. Its a collector's piece, not something youd want to take to the range every weekend.

Still though D:

[Spartan094]

Since its considered an Antique if I did decide to bid on it I would not need an FFL, just a doorstep. But then again I would never shell out THAT kind of money, I could but it would really hurt me in the long run.

Never the less it would be a Safe Queen and a display piece most likely.

[PenGuin1362]

If I ever had that kind of money to shell out I would definitely for a rare and pristine piece.

[TVTyrant]

Id buy a super nice hunting rifle :iamafag:

[Spartan094]

It sold for $4,050.00

That has to be the most money I ever seen shelled out on a Mosin Nagant variant.

[rossmum]

I want to punch the fucking seller so hard, look at what the stupid cunt did to the cleaning rod by making it carry the rifle's weight in that hook. If they're lucky it might still come out and be replaceable, but with how badly bent it is, I doubt it.

What a fucking idiot.

[TVTyrant]

Didn't notice that before. Oh shit thats really crappy.

Can't wait for cheap Russian stuff :realsmug:

Seriously its gonna be AMAZING!!!!

[rossmum]

By the way, since the Kriss came up earlier: I have spoken to someone who fired the FA (proper) version. The trigger is quite possibly the worst, the gun feels flimsy, and according to him - and he is a gigantic guy (not in the hambeast sense, either) - the recoil was little or no improvement over the FA UMP he also fired. So yeah... I think I'll keep my conventional rifles without weird counterweight systems that apparently don't really even do much.

Even if it does, fuck, it's .45ACP and it's coming out of a tiny submachine gun. It's hardly that much of an issue.

[Warsaw]

But what about the BARS in the AEK-971 and AK-107?

[Cortexian]

By the way, since the Kriss came up earlier: I have spoken to someone who fired the FA (proper) version. The trigger is quite possibly the worst, the gun feels flimsy, and according to him - and he is a gigantic guy (not in the hambeast sense, either) - the recoil was little or no improvement over the FA UMP he also fired. So yeah... I think I'll keep my conventional rifles without weird counterweight systems that apparently don't really even do much.

Even if it does, fuck, it's .45ACP and it's coming out of a tiny submachine gun. It's hardly that much of an issue.
That guy is full of shit, because I've fired a .45 UMP and KRISS (both the Canadian-legal semi-auto only versions of course) and there's a huge difference in muzzle climb. The difference isn't in reducing felt recoil, it's about reducing muzzle climb.

Also, the KRISS I used felt more sturdy than the UMP lol.

[rossmum]

Well the UMP is a giant pile of shit, so that's hardly surprising

[TVTyrant]

Had a dream last night where Ross, Penguin, Freelancer and myself went shooting together.

P. weird right?

[Spartan094]

Weird yes, but I am forever alone shooting in my yard by myself.

Bought myself for shits and giggles a repro USSR flag. Can't wait to pile up old Soviet weapons by the flag, once the old milsurp weapons become cheap again.

[Cortexian]

Had a dream last night where Ross, Penguin, Freelancer and myself went shooting together.

P. weird right?
If I was shooting anything old/Russian it was an incorrect dream!!

Actually the AN-94 is pretty neat.

[TVTyrant]

If I was shooting anything old/Russian it was an incorrect dream!!

Actually the AN-94 is pretty neat.
No, you were yelling at me for stealing an AR-15 into you cold, gun hating country lol.

[PenGuin1362]

I mean....I'm down. We just have to smuggle Ross from upside down country.

[TVTyrant]

Do we go to Canada or to the States?

[rossmum]

Weird yes, but I am forever alone shooting in my yard by myself.

Bought myself for shits and giggles a repro USSR flag. Can't wait to pile up old Soviet weapons by the flag, once the old milsurp weapons become cheap again.
Or for an even better idea, fly the flag very prominently outside your home and troll every idiot conservative who passes until the end of time!


If I was shooting anything old/Russian it was an incorrect dream!!

Actually the AN-94 is pretty neat.
I dunno what's up with you, but Russian weapons are actually the correct kind. Pretty much everything they have ever made is either markedly superior to its Western counterpart (or is so goddamn innovative it doesn't even have a Western counterpart - AN-94 and until the .300BLK, VSS/VAL/VSK-94). ARs and G36s and SCARs and whatever are nice guns... for a clown. To take the the circus range. Idiot. :realsmug:


I mean....I'm down. We just have to smuggle Ross from upside down country.
I plan on moving back to Canada ASAP but in my terms that is probably like 3-5 years if not longer. I am poor and disorganised. If someone is willing to pay my flights there and back and put me up on their sofa though, I'll drop everything!

e/ vz.54s are fucking awesome and you should want one

http://i.imgur.com/3QEFh.jpg

Oh, the things I would do... :allears:

[TVTyrant]

Thing about Russian guns is the price is right. Thing about American guns is the great quality (not necessarily talking military here). The old Winchester Model 70s give me the biggest boner ever.

[rossmum]

Dad has a Model 70 in 7mm Rem Mag and good lord that rifle rules.

[TVTyrant]

Dad has a Model 70 in 7mm Rem Mag and good lord that rifle rules.
My Pops has a pre-64 (if you dont know what that means look it up) in .300 Win Mag. They only ran them in that caliber for one year before the model switch over. The thing is the most solidly built, accurate rifle I have ever shot.

[rossmum]

Dad's is from the 70s, but the action is absolutely glorious. The bolt is the smoothest piece of moving metal I have ever come across in my life, the trigger is great, and the rifle itself handles beautifully. It's so much fun to shoot, but he only reloads so much of his precious ammo at a time so I can't blast all day :smith:

[Cortexian]

The bolt is the smoothest piece of moving metal I have ever come across in my life
You should try some of those $7,000+ (USD) Weatherby bolts. Moving those bolts is orgasmic for the hands.

[TVTyrant]

Dad's is from the 70s, but the action is absolutely glorious. The bolt is the smoothest piece of moving metal I have ever come across in my life, the trigger is great, and the rifle itself handles beautifully. It's so much fun to shoot, but he only reloads so much of his precious ammo at a time so I can't blast all day :smith:
Yeah, thats a push feed though. Controlled feed>push feed in every way. Pre 64 .300 is probably worth about 3000 USD, and even then the buyer is probably going to scrap everything but the action for a custom rifle. Hunting rifles are a totally different biz than military guns.

[Cortexian]

Hunting rifles are a totally different biz than military guns.
Well duh, when you're hunting you want to have the most accurate single-shot possible. The only thing in the military world that compares are the custom-modified sniper rifles used by special forces and the like.

[TVTyrant]

Well duh, when you're hunting you want to have the most accurate single-shot possible. The only thing in the military world that compares are the custom-modified sniper rifles used by special forces and the like.
It has to be fast too, which most of those are not lol.

[Cortexian]

What has to be fast? Loading? Bullet velocity? Aiming?

What?!

[TVTyrant]

What has to be fast? Loading? Bullet velocity? Aiming?

What?!
Lol aiming of course. But then again maybe not in Alberta. Here in Oregon its all jump shooting (on the coastal side).

[Cortexian]

Where we hunt is pretty heavily forested and getting a kill really comes down to you detecting the animal before it detects you. Once a deer/elk/moose runs through this forest you're pretty much done with that animal. Not a lot of prairie unless you go East/South-East.

[TVTyrant]

Even our East side is pretty vertical. Thats the thing is, we only have a small patch of land thats flat and its mostly owned by selfish people.

[Cortexian]

Well, immediately West of here is foothills. As a matter of fact, they actually start on the edge of the city and go for about an hour. An hour past that and you're in the Rocky Mountains.

And East is not where we hunt, we find that hunting in farmers fields is boring an unproductive.

Mountainous landscaped untouched by anyone except the occasional hunter and oil crew are the best to hunt in IMO.

[TVTyrant]

Mountainous landscaped untouched by anyone except the occasional hunter and oil crew are the best to hunt in IMO.
Agreed

[rossmum]

Wrote a thing (http://shuntyard.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/my-scopes-dad-could-beat-your-scopes.html) about WWII scopes.

[ICEE]

Interesting read.

[rossmum]

PICTERS

http://i.imgur.com/4PjWf.jpg
In the sun

http://i.imgur.com/gTO2X.jpg
In the shade (hello bayonet let's be friends)

http://i.imgur.com/y9H0A.jpg
Counterbores are for scrubs

http://i.imgur.com/SIor9.jpg
:-3

Probably going shooting this coming week, planning to run at least a hundred rounds through my Mosin.

[Cortexian]

I hope you buy more ammo, because what you pictured there isn't really close to 100 rounds. Sorry to break it to you!!

My Thompson/Center Venture came back yesterday from being fixed after the recall of all models prior to October 2011. Except no one at home here (three people) heard the delivery guy, so I assuming he just didn't knock and decided that it would just be cool if he left a note on the door telling us that they would try delivery again AFTER THE WEEKEND.

Hey buddy, I know you want to get off work early cause it's Friday and everything but you're a fucking douchebag. My father went out camping/off-roading this weekend, I even said to him that if the gun was back by then I'd go with him to try it out and just have fun shooting. Way to ruin my weekend Loomis Express (DHL)!!

Oh well, I will probably go this week sometime with a friend if/when I can get him to come out. Last time he gave himself this by being a n00b shooter:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5015/scopebite.jpg

Yes... That is scope-bite from my T/C Venture .30-06 lol. It was actually pretty bad, he needed stitches for it and has a scar now. He was a manly-man about it though and just smothered it in fresh snow to help quicken the healing and deaden the pain. Then we went shotgunning (of which I have a video on YouTubes).

[Tnnaas]

I'm sorry, but n00b shooting 101: Don't get close to the scope with your eye because it'll often bite.

[TVTyrant]

I've been hit in the eye by a scope before

popped a really bad ingrown hair once

Had pus all over my gun

Probably the funniest fucking thing to ever happen to me whilst shooting.

[Tnnaas]

I was about eight when I fired my first shotgun. My dad handed me this bulky 8-gauge monster of a thing and set up a foam cup in front of a series of railroad ties (I don't remember where the hell we got them). For some idiotic reason, the safety was off.

He tells me to shoot it. I pull the gun up a little bit above my shoulder, because it was biting into my arm. My short, scrawny left hand barely holds the thing up.

I lean my head right and to the back to see if I can sight the cup. I pull the trigger, the gun goes off, kicks back, hits me square in the chin, and almost knocks me on my ass.

That must've been the intention, because him and the rest of the small crowd of relatives gathered around started cracking up. I had a bad bloody lip, but I was a boss about it. Of course, I was half deaf for another five minutes, so I didn't have to endure any mocking that usually goes around in my backward, redneck family.

[rossmum]

I hope you buy more ammo, because what you pictured there isn't really close to 100 rounds. Sorry to break it to you!!
I wasn't really about to open the other 180 rounds just for a photo, then have to clean it all up. I bought 200 and shot five (dad shot one too) last time, since we had to run outside during a break in the torrential downpour.


I was about eight when I fired my first shotgun. My dad handed me this bulky 8-gauge monster of a thing and set up a foam cup in front of a series of railroad ties (I don't remember where the hell we got them). For some idiotic reason, the safety was off.

He tells me to shoot it. I pull the gun up a little bit above my shoulder, because it was biting into my arm. My short, scrawny left hand barely holds the thing up.

I lean my head right and to the back to see if I can sight the cup. I pull the trigger, the gun goes off, kicks back, hits me square in the chin, and almost knocks me on my ass.

That must've been the intention, because him and the rest of the small crowd of relatives gathered around started cracking up. I had a bad bloody lip, but I was a boss about it. Of course, I was half deaf for another five minutes, so I didn't have to endure any mocking that usually goes around in my backward, redneck family.
Yeah this is like the absolute worst thing to do with a new shooter (or introducing an experienced one to a new type of firearm) because it is fucking dangerous and either scares them off outright or causes bad habits (flinching). First shotgun I fired was a .410, which was mild as hell, then a 12ga with target loads. I had an awesome time.

With all of that said, people have a tendency to really overstate recoil. I don't know if it's because we've all been pussified (probably not since old dudes do it too) or what, but from what I had heard about it, I was kind of apprehensive the first time I shot my dad's Winchester (7mm Rem Mag). I shot some light stuff first (160gr) and then moved onto his usual moosefucker load (175gr moving at ALL of the feet per second) next. It was pretty solid, but it didn't hurt and I had no trouble shooting it until he decided I was going to go through all his super-expensive ammo if he didn't stop me. Same with my Mosin; "ohhh it hurts, couldn't possibly spend all day shooting with it". Yeah, speak for yourself, I could. It really doesn't recoil much harder than my No.4, and both of those are more of a firm push than a kick.

I'm really lightly built too so I don't see what all the fucking crying is about. The only reason to use a buttpad on WWII milsurp is a) if it's an anti-tank rifle or b) if you need added LOP (like Hickok with his 91/30). Shit, even my little sister handles the recoil fine, and she's like... 13. She started on .22, then up to .22-250, then under very careful supervision she took a shot with my Enfield. Then another, and another, and emptied a whole mag and wants to shoot the Mosin next time we go out blasting things. Maybe she's an okay kid after all :-3

[Cortexian]

First gun I ever shot was a .308 and it was at my first deer ever. I got that deer too, perfect shot. So perfect we couldn't actually find the entrance/exit wounds or blood on the carcass anywhere. To this day we're of the opinion that I gave it a heart-attack and it just fell over. Never had any practice with a firearm before that except with my little Crossman CO2 Pellet gun. They told me what to expect with the .308 and how to hold it right and I was actually fine, I've never been bitten by a scope.

I would have that one time I was shooting that Tavor on the range, I was just having so much fun pumping 10-round mags down-range (the most you can semi-legally put in a magazine in Canada for semi-auto's) that I wasn't paying attention to my grip or stance at one point. Inadvertently bump fired it 3 times and it climbed as sure as I had fired it on full-auto. Some douchebag self-appointed range officer* actually asked me to make sure it was legal.


*You know the guys I'm talking about, those faggots who show up to public ranges and take on the responsibilities of yelling at anyone who even touches their rifle when someone is downrange. Even though your rifle is actually slung, bolt open, magazine out, and you're just checking the action to make sure it is ACTUALLY clear.

[TVTyrant]

As a man of heavy build, you all need to lift some weights and take some pro hormone

Weighing less than 170 is unacceptable :-3

I have said it before, I have never had a problem with recoil

[Cortexian]

I weight like 195 and I have a completely athletic build. Well, except maybe my legs right now since I haven't been exercising them NEARLY enough in the past 6 months.

When you're not expecting automatic fire it can come as a surprise. I still never got hit by the scope, since it was a red dot and mounted far forward. :downs:

[Spartan094]

Going to my grandparents for spring break, gonna go get my first Mosin Nagant that's just been sitting with them in the safe being a queen, and hopefully get some other weapons and bring it back up north, if not I can wait.

Oh a side note does anybody ever give names to their guns?


Weighing less than 170 is unacceptable :-3

Oye now

[Cortexian]

Awake already waiting for the gun re-delivery.

Derp.

[TVTyrant]

Awake already waiting for the gun re-delivery.

Derp.
At 2?

:nigel:

[Cortexian]

yeah i couldn't sleep.

[rossmum]

Not specifically gun-related but fuck you. Just found a proper WWII ushanka after about a week of periodically wading through the sea of current-issue and commercial versions on eBay, was priced decently and is the exact same size as my slouch hat so I know it'll fit. Comes with a postwar subdued pin, but I have the correct one anyway (came with my PU) so I'm laughing. Telogreika comes next, soon as I a) get paid and b) figure out what size I need.

Probably going to end up getting a full 1943/44 uniform, not for reenacting (which tends towards a whole other level of autism and pretentiousness, as much fun as it sounds like in theory) so much as just having it and being able to wear it out shooting when it's cold :allears:

[Warsaw]

Go shopping in it.

[PenGuin1362]

Find an authentic Russian marksman medal that accompanied the 91/30 snipers. It's like $300 for a tiny little pin

[Spartan094]

Nice to see my question goes un-answered, I guess it's just me then that does it.

Also took a semi-nice picture of my antique 10G DB, dont mind the pesky weeds. I'll get a better shot tomorrow.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/446/p1012799.jpg

E: Curious me, figuring out how to remove rust off the DB, any ideas?

[rossmum]

I can't really think up names for my guns, which is odd since I used to name the family cars. Shit I dunno, I probably could, I just don't really see much cause to. I already baby them enough as it is without having given them names, and there's like a whole other level of "causing people to look at you apprehensively" between letting slip that you've named your car something random and letting slip you've named your Mosin after a cute WWII Soviet sniper. :tinfoil:

Maybe when I own multiples of any one sort of gun I'll have reason to, but even then, it's not really a thing I've put much thought into.

As for rust removal, 0000 steel wool (MAKE SURE it is 0000) and gun oil. GENTLY.

[Warsaw]

I have a name for mine:

00471

[Cortexian]

OK so FPSRussia ruined his by blinging it out, but this is probably my favorite M14 chassis now:
x8iX8Lnogf4

[rossmum]

It looks awkward and probably has the worst trigger pull on the face of the Earth, fuck that noise

[PenGuin1362]

looks kind of sick, I'd totally get one if I already had a standard M1A

[rossmum]

Hey Peng you said ages back that your bolt body was new production; don't suppose you could tell me where you got it? I tried Jim the Bolt Man but he says he's out of the new ones and can't afford to use them anymore, and I really don't want to sent mine overseas, so...

[PenGuin1362]

I've tried finding the guy again but I can't for the life of me remember what the site was called or if even makes them anymore, the website was a weird name too. He makes new scope covers, bent bolts, and sells reproduction pu scopes and few K98 parts as well.

I didn't do much digging but I found this with a quick search. Claims to be original bent bolt, do some searching and see what you find

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Mosin-Nagant-1891-1930-Target-Bolt-w-Bent-Handle-/400286552848?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%2BC%26itu%3DUCI%2BI A%2BUA%2BFICS%2BUFI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D2508335754 28%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7418433869245496038#ht_589w t_1163

[rossmum]

"Not available to Australia" :maddowns:

[Cortexian]

Don't feel bad, it's also "Not available to Canada".

Blame bad sellers.

[rossmum]

Fucking hell EVERY SINGLE ONE, even where it's just the bolt body which would clear customs no hassle, are US only. The bolt body is the only fucking thing holding me back from restoring my rifle, this is fucking retarded.

[TVTyrant]

Fucking hell EVERY SINGLE ONE, even where it's just the bolt body which would clear customs no hassle, are US only. The bolt body is the only fucking thing holding me back from restoring my rifle, this is fucking retarded.
Mill your own lol

[TVTyrant]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/48342

Totally getting one of these for the price lol

[Cortexian]

Would rather buy one HK45 than 10 of those cause they break every time you fire a round.

lmao

[Spartan094]

Ahahahaha


In other words, I would get a bent bolt for the MN just for the fun of it but who do get it from that is like spot on? And the fact I want just the numbers punched in would be cool but idk who does that, since I dont want to use my original bolt.

[TVTyrant]

Would rather buy one HK45 than 10 of those cause they break every time you fire a round.

lmao
They are hilarious and I bet I could get them to work!

[PenGuin1362]

Be careful of that website. I've heard multiple reports of credit card fraud from people after that purchased stuff from there. Not sure if it's them, poor security, or maybe just a coincidence but just a heads up.

[TVTyrant]

Be careful of that website. I've heard multiple reports of credit card fraud from people after that purchased stuff from there. Not sure if it's them, poor security, or maybe just a coincidence but just a heads up.
Hmm interesting. Well okay, thanks for the heads up Pengy!

[Spartan094]

Finally brought back my first MN I ever had, along with a pre-64 Winchester Model 1894. The Model 94 was made in 1958 and is in Win. 32 Special....funny thing is I transported them via Airplane so I had fun waiting in line to drop it off, and best of all they didnt charge me a cent to load the two into the cargo....and when I was waiting for it in the pickup area the case slid out with the words in plane sight UNLOADED FIREARM(S), some kids were like dooood.

But yeah I'll take more pics tomorrow in the morning and try find some cheap .32 special, oh the fun in that, for a range test.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4421/imag0739w.jpg

[TVTyrant]

Beautiful 94. One of my favorite designs ever. I love the lever action.

[Spartan094]

Click for full size goodness.
Pre-64 Winchester Model 1894 in 32 WIN. SPL.
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/8005/p1012801.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7514/p1012804.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/798/p1012805.jpg

I'll probably leave the wood alone as it stands, it has character. Now there is some light rust along the mag tube and top cover but some 0000 steel wool will do the trick.

[TVTyrant]

God, that is one gorgeous piece of steel. My Uncle Bob has one from the 30's and its amazing. I hope I inherit it :-3

[PenGuin1362]

I love lever actions and that right there is the epitome of why

[PenGuin1362]

Apparently the price of M38's is really starting to go up. However this one up for auction is currently sitting low http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=280799268 If only I was in the position to snag it right now :(

[Spartan094]

You remind me it still stings I missed a 1940 Tula M38...

I would snag that M38 but after fee's and shipping it would cost me more then to cherry pick through the rack of M38's at a local gun store near me.

Oh yeah counter-bored MN's don't fit well with me, considering I just decided to peer into my first MN's rifling and grooves it is shiny as heck and I can see the rifling alittle bit at the end of the barrel....and that the rack of M38's I can avoid a CB rifle.

[PenGuin1362]

counter-bored rifles are nice, they can in fact be more accurate than the standard bore and are just as shiny, sometimes. It depends. The down side to counter bored is that the original crown and bore were shit so they had to counter-bore to fix it.

[Spartan094]

Yeah it's just I never delt with one, don't like CB rifles for some reason.

And I'm pissed, the original front sight for my 94 the very top part of it fell off somehow, now it's kinda weird and can't do shit with it...and it's partly rusted so I'll need to get a new front sight.

[rossmum]

counter-bored rifles are nice, they can in fact be more accurate than the standard bore and are just as shiny, sometimes. It depends. The down side to counter bored is that the original crown and bore were shit so they had to counter-bore to fix it.
you're just jealous~~

[PenGuin1362]

of what? lol One mosin I own is CB the other isn't, I get the best of both worlds :D Also what I like about Counter bored rifles is there's a pretty good chance they saw some action during the war which adds to the history of the rifle. It depends on what you want.

[rossmum]

If your Mosin is dated 1944 or earlier, the chance of its being used in the war rapidly approaches '1', doubly so if it's a sniper rifle.

Really all a CB means is that the soldier it was issued to neglected to realise that the cleaning rod won't reach the last 2-3" of rifling and it rusted to shit and back during storage. There was a trial done where a match-grade M1 was cleaned aggressively from the muzzle with a steel rod, it took so long to wear it to even the next increment of bore grade (which was still very good) that it mostly throws that theory out the window. The fact that the CB is always at or near the depth between the cleaning rod's muzzle guide and the end of the jag, on the other hand, says a lot. A rifle that was shot a handful of times on a range and never used again could be CB, a rifle that served throughout the war might not be.

Whoever had my rifle cared for it a lot. The rifling is incredible right to the crown, like a new rifle. I wonder where it's been, and what happened to the sniper that used it... if only they'd kept some kind of records. I know some Soviet snipers remembered their rifles' serial numbers, but there were no official records of who got what rifle, let alone where they went and what they did.

[Spartan094]

Whoever had my rifle cared for it a lot. The rifling is incredible right to the crown, like a new rifle. I wonder where it's been.

You and me both, it's like my rifle saw barely any action, all but one part is Izhevsk and the Izhevsk parts exhibit war-time machining. It's been through 2 refurbishments, the only thing the workers did was paint any white metal black (which came off easily on mine), restamped the numbers (despite the bolt looking original to the rifle), sanded off any stock markings, and did a sloppy shellac job.

I kinda wanna change the rear barrel band from Tula to Izhevsk to then have no Tula parts but then again I kinda dont wanna.

[rossmum]

Similar story with the refurb here. Lick of paint here, lick of paint there, new stock and bolt body, weld up the mounting screws, and slap some shellac on it.

[Spartan094]

All this talk about MN's and what Penguin brought up way earlier is I want a M38 now, though I'm going to search the racks for that one M38 that stands out since I missed the '40 Tula one.

I'll ask if they got a empty crate I could take home, make it into table with a glass window at the top like what this guy did from the AR15 forums in some fashion.
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z362/0471861731/_DSC0698MosinCoffeeTable-A.jpg

[TVTyrant]

DO FUCKING WANT

[rossmum]

Yes that is the sickest coffee table.

Some more stuff. Glad I joined Gunboards, both because of the info there and the guns that those guys get. On the same day there's a thread showing some of the most alarming fakes I've seen yet, and also a thread by a guy who picked up a super-rare 1942 Izhevsk PU (with the early SVT-type scope tube and SVT turrets).

In hunting news: got myself a rabbit last night, neighbours got one and also their first fox - sounded like WWIII, they must've put eight shots into the thing. They saw it after they dropped us off and headed for home, was just out the front. Saw lots of roos but let them go, legality of shooting roos without a permit of some sort is about as clear as solid granite and we didn't want to risk it.

[TVTyrant]

Cant you just get a hunting license or something?

How was the rabbit? Tasty?

[rossmum]

Dunno, we don't eat them because there's a 50/50 chance they have mixymatosis or something similar around here, released by the government to try control them. The only reason we hunt them at all is to try and keep foxes off our land or give us a known spot the foxes will gravitate to so we can shoot them instead. 'Sides, .22-250 SPBT at ten feet basically guts it for you, it was a complete mess.

Tangentially related to this thread, enjoy some glorious colour footage of the Eastern Front, mostly Berlin and Stalingrad. You will see dead bodies and dudes getting shot so don't watch it if that kind of thing gives you nightmares I guess


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti0chm8_ihk&feature=related

[TVTyrant]

Wait, your government poisons your only source of game? what in the fark?

[rossmum]

There is plenty of other shit here, but rabbits are an absolute plague. Mixymatosis was introduced ages ago to try cull them off but they've become resistant, so they hit them with other stuff too.

There are deer in the state forest just down the road from my parents' place. Dad and I are probably going to get hunting permits (necessary for shooting in state forest) and see what we can find.

[PenGuin1362]

Don't forget the land of most fucked up looking bugs on the planet. Hunt those fuckers instead.

[TVTyrant]

Don't forget the land of most fucked up looking bugs on the planet. Hunt those fuckers instead.
Madagascar?

[Spartan094]

Nice vid there ross, also hunting bugs sounds like a awesome idea if they were huge huge.

I should stop taking photo's mann, took it on a cold snowy Michigan day, yes it snowed today woo, also I'm really debating on if or not I should wait yet again for the gun shows this month or grab a M38..choices but I lean towards gun shows since the one closest to me wont show again till October.
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/610/p1012811.jpg

[rossmum]

God that Mosin is gorgeous.

Also, speaking of huge bugs:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg9qVkQgHrE

I couldn't hurt one, though. They're so adorable.

[Boba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti0chm8_ihk&feature=related

why the fuck did the gunner at 2:40 fire when people were clearly still in front of the weapon

[rossmum]

Most likely tunnel vision, or he figured they were safe when they may not have been. I can't tell if the guy who drops was just shot or if he was knocked flat by the muzzle blast.

[PenGuin1362]

Dear Russia,
Sexy gun design and functionality. You've been doing right for 70 years

[rossmum]

70? Try 121.

[Warsaw]

Ain't called the MN 1891 for no reason fellas!

They've also been using the 7.62x54R for just as long, though it has seen some...ahem...changes.

[TVTyrant]

Dear John M. Browning

We really miss you here in Merica

Please come back~

[Spartan094]

Izmash went bankrupt again, oh yeah the AK-12 was ment for exportation from what they said.

And on gunboards a guy is selling right now 2 M38's both for $175, 2 M44's for $175, and a M91 Izhevsk 1927 for $140. I thought about it and I might get one of them, but it all depends...

[ICEE]

2755 <CLICKY CLICK

Ok I know that this isnt a real gun comment and shit but I thought one of you frequenters could help me. Im doing animations with this 590 shotgun model and I dont know what to do with this little thing in loading port. It doesnt look like it's designed to rotate outward, and if it stays where it's at, it gets in the way of loading a shell. halp please.

[PenGuin1362]

it looks like it's the wrong direction, it should be on the opposite side and will rotate up as a shell is loaded

[ICEE]

That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure. Thanks peng I'll just flip it around.

[TVTyrant]

Do you have an IRL picture of it? I can't tell what its supposed to be from the model.

[TVTyrant]

Seems like it was solved. Lol.

[ICEE]

actually having looked at some IRL shotguns, they really do have it set up that way. Whatever I'm still flipping it. CREEATIVE LIBARTIES

[rossmum]

Izmash went bankrupt again, oh yeah the AK-12 was ment for exportation from what they said.
If only it was still state-owned this would not have happened :ussr:


And on gunboards a guy is selling right now 2 M38's both for $175, 2 M44's for $175, and a M91 Izhevsk 1927 for $140. I thought about it and I might get one of them, but it all depends...
Sounds a bit steep. I'd price them out elsewhere first.

More Mosin-related posting: the more I handle mine, the more I love it. Fuck the haters, it's a gorgeous rifle, it handles nicely, and being a sniper rifle it actually has what could pass for a decent trigger even by modern standards. I am never selling this rifle, ever. Not even for a non-refurb original sniper rifle. I'll just save and have both. I just don't get people who want to hack up these things, regardless of how cheap or how beaten they are... you're taking the fun out of them. If you have such a boner for cheap synthetic stocks, badly-tuned triggers, and shitty optics on sloppy mounts, go buy an entry-level hunting rifle and shit that up. Better yet, save up and buy a good hunting rifle with a well-fit stock, a good trigger job, and good optics on solid mounts, you fucking fuck. I don't understand the people who dwell in that strange overlap between guns and cars - wanting to pimp the shit out of something shitty with even more shitty shit when, if they waited like another week, they could have what they wanted to make it into in the first place. Man, fuck people.

Other news, dad's Winchester is currently in the house, so I am alternating between fondling my Mosin and fondling that. I really hope he leaves me that rifle, I will love and cherish it forever. He's had it since the 70s or so and killed pretty much everything he's ever hunted with it (up to and including our old living room rug we had in Canada and still have safely tucked away here, a pretty sizeable bear), and it's just so nice to handle and shoot. It's not a pre-64 as I mentioned earlier, but it's a fucking great rifle all the same and I love it.

Switching to less :-3 news, there was a huge illegal firearms bust here. That in itself is not really a bad thing; I'm strongly in opposition to our ban on semiautos and I'd turn a blind eye to someone I know to not be a criminal or insane still having one squirrelled away (and I gather that was a common reaction to Port Arthur), but the guy in this case imported a shitload of AR parts and clearly intended to build them up as kits and sell them. Given how badly he'd already broken the law without giving a shit, I'm not sure he would've been too thorough vetting his customers. No, that's all fine. The rifles might be destroyed, or they might be sold on, I dunno. I hope the latter (the police sell seized/evidence guns when they're done with them via some dealers, at least sometimes). What really had me foaming at the mouth was the media coverage, which was predictably hyperbolic. "THE SAME RIFLE USED BY BRYANT AT PORT ARTHUR" and so on. From what I recall Bryant used an SLR, but I could be wrong - either way it's fucking stupid, you may as well scream about Mausers because "THE SAME RIFLE USED BY EINSATZGRUPPEN TO SHOOT JEWS AND GYPSIES". Worse still, how did they describe them? The ABC, being government-funded non-commercial television, merely called them "military-type assault rifles", noting their semi-automatic nature. Annoying, but nothing we're not used to. Channel Seven, meanwhile... I shit you not, they are "MASSACRE-STYLE MILITARY ASSAULT WEAPONS". Massacre style.

Really, I think even the most propaganda-laden of state-controlled news pales in the face of the bullshit commercial channels will pull to boost ratings and push their CEO's political agendas. Fuck off, cunts.

Gunshow tomorrow and I have five spare permits to acquire bolt-action centrefires. Someone fucked up at the registry and sent me six when I wanted one for the Mosin, and I have no intention of letting them go to waste - money is the issue, but I'll see what I can get. Maybe a No.1 Mk.III or something, hopefully their prices haven't gone up as badly as everything else around here. I should fucking hope not, Lithgow is less than an hour from here.

e/

Here are some photos of dad's Model 70 (complete with the oddball but awesome Redfield Widefield) and my Mosin! In fact, let me just c/p my post from the TFR optics thread:


http://i.imgur.com/r1Basl.jpg (http://imgur.com/r1Bas)
Notice the slightly-too-short-for-the-action mount. Dad had to get that because they'd run out of the proper length ones and he figured he'd fix it later. After something like 40 years, he still hasn't got round to replacing it, and probably never will. :v:

http://i.imgur.com/uIX59l.jpg (http://imgur.com/uIX59)
The magnification adjustment, 2-7x on this model, has a little stud to make it quick and easy in any conditions. Turns nice and smoothly, but it holds steady otherwise.

http://i.imgur.com/a8yyql.jpg (http://imgur.com/a8yyq)
Here's the sight picture. Forgive both the janky tilt and the mess of tissues, I was trying to do this one-handed in between sneezes because the damn cats rubbed all over me on the way inside

http://i.imgur.com/xhIJOl.jpg (http://imgur.com/xhIJO)

http://i.imgur.com/F0ZjBl.jpg (http://imgur.com/F0ZjB)
Both the objective and ocular lenses have this squashed oblong shape to them.

MOOOOOOOSIN

http://i.imgur.com/d8Aht.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bPnbH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JMRnY.jpg

[Spartan094]

Sounds a bit steep. I'd price them out elsewhere first.
It may or may not be, consider in the US we might get another "Obama Scare" that will shove prices right up again. And for M38's and M44's that's not bad in my area, a little on the high side but still good. I need to make another visit to my local gun stores to see if they having anything new.

Nice MN pics there Ross.

Oh yeah I went ahead and took my 1st MN for a spin today at the range, shot about 55 rounds, 13 being Winchester and the rest a mix of Romanian and Bulgarian. I have to say my MN likes Winchester, hit a small apple dead on at 50 yards which isn't to bad and had some nice groupings with the WIN at 50 yd's rather then milsurp ammo.


Oh yeah speaking of gun shows the last two im going to should have a better pick then previous gun shows, ugh. I saw a nice Chinese M44 (T53) at the last one but it had no price on the rack and nobody would bother to tell me anything for like 10 minutes so I left it, along with a Hungarian M44 but it was mis-matched and I was still furious for missing a all-matching one for $135 a while back which a discreet import mark at the front of the barrel (and not a bill board one) so I skipped it, and the PU Russian SKS.

E: I got my friend and his dad interested in the Mosin Nagant, hopefully if they buy one or two they wont chop it up.

[rossmum]

I saw AMAZING stuff at the show. So many old and rare guns, far more than the newer rifles. I had my heart set on a beautiful P14 but someone bought it from under me, next time I guess. If there is a next time. P14s are rather hard to find here... or anywhere, for that matter. Guy brought along a .50 cal HB bolt-action, the HB and massive muzzlebrake made it look more like a 20mm. Another brought a pair of Lithgow No.1 Mk.III* (HT) rifles - high turret snipers - which I would've given my left nut for, they were immaculate. Neither was for sale (predictably) but each was valued around $4,500. There was a Civil War display, too, with an old sharpshooter's rifle with a scope nearly as long as the rifle.

Great variety, some good prices, can't wait for next year.

[PenGuin1362]

Beautiful stuff Ross. For the M38's and 44's though, like I said it appears those are going up in price everywhere now. Most matching, clean bore M38's I found now are at the lowest $175. Usually see them for closer to $200.

speaking of MN's, I think I might pick myself up an M38 soon. Already have the 44 and the sniper, so might as well add that one to the family :)

[Spartan094]

In my area only M38's I find are at the $250 range, gun shows turn up nothing at the moment but I'll jump on one. M44's though in my area went as low as $100 so I have some hope, the Hungarian one irates me how I missed it.

[rossmum]

~bore foto~

http://i.imgur.com/TUBRr.jpg

You can see how canted the sight is. Gonna have to see how it shoots on paper, then adjust accordingly.

[PenGuin1362]

Has anybody shot the Nagant revolver? They're dirt cheap and thinking about getting one, what do you guys think

[TVTyrant]

Has anybody shot the Nagant revolver? They're dirt cheap and thinking about getting one, what do you guys think
Get an Iver Johnson 32 instead. They are of similar make, have a similar price range, and unless you actually intend on paying ridiculous prieces for the original Nagant ammo, they fire the same round (32 Smith).

[rossmum]

Has anybody shot the Nagant revolver? They're dirt cheap and thinking about getting one, what do you guys think
Buy one, stamp that bitch, suppress.

Also I heard that its moon ammo is starting to appear in decent amounts, so it's not as prohibitively expensive at the moment.

[PenGuin1362]

I'm still tossing around what to get next. Need to find a new apartment first though....and a puppy too (malamute of course)

Also I lol'd at this
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/04/18/strikemark-digital-camera-picatinny-rail-mount/

M (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/04/18/strikemark-digital-camera-picatinny-rail-mount/)ostly at just the big ass cameras they have mounted

[ICEE]

Has anybody shot the Nagant revolver? They're dirt cheap and thinking about getting one, what do you guys think

I fired my grandpa's, and since the ammo's so expensive he loads his own. The problem was that the tip of the bullet was too long and it would block the revolving mechanism, even though it appeared to be of the perfect length. I think its because the drum moves around so much. So if you get one, that could be something to consider.

Reloading the thing is a royal pain in the ass too.

[Spartan094]

Scored a Romanian M44 1955, I'll get pictures once the cosmo is cleaned up. I got it for $120, it was a successful gun show this week.

[TVTyrant]

Very nice! Congratulations!

[Spartan094]

After a long tedious task of cleaning cosmo, including the wood its done! Bolt body does not match but everything else does. Bore needs scrubbing thou. All parts are Romanian including the stock wood.

Came with a Romanian Sling(?) and romanian supplies. It also came with a SAFETY tag with I found funny. More pics in the spoiler, I'll take the usual "gun on the rock" picture later.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5795/p1012812.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4830/p1012815.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/29/p1012818.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5959/p1012819.jpg
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7956/p1012822.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3840/p1012821.jpg

[PenGuin1362]

Beautiful. Just stocked up on a couple hundred rounds of 5.56 and 7.62x54. It's goin to be a fun day Monday, just thought I'd share :)

[Spartan094]

Nice Penguin, your shoulder will be hurting probably at the end of the day.

Also I forgot to mention I picked up 50 rounds of silver tip Czech 7.62x54r for $20 and I got the M44 for $120.

[Spartan094]

As promised
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3651/p1012826.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3130/p1012827.jpg

[TeeKup]

Dat boulder.

[Cortexian]

That's a nice boulder.

[TVTyrant]

Those trees sure are leaveless

[PenGuin1362]

The color of the rock is kind of off putting.

[TeeKup]

The obvious structures in the background under the cover of the forest don't mesh with the rest of the image.

[Spartan094]

It's not good enough, farck mannnn, since the structer and rock wasn't good enough I'll shoot it in grass.

Onto serious business, I'll play around today with some photo shooting since I have nothing better to do, I'll present them in an hour or so of different shots/locations...hey I don't mind any crit on photo's anyways.

[TVTyrant]

It's not good enough, farck mannnn, since the structer and rock wasn't good enough I'll shoot it in grass.

Onto serious business, I'll play around today with some photo shooting since I have nothing better to do, I'll present them in an hour or so of different shots/locations...hey I don't mind any crit on photo's anyways.
This guy doesn't get the joke :smug:

[Spartan094]

Oh lol, I have nothing better to do today anyways.

And I'm aware of whats going on, it's not like I seen it before some time ago :ugh:

[PenGuin1362]

Lol photo is fine, the gun is all the matters.

[Spartan094]

I did though take your comment serious Penguin lol, but eh I had nothing to do today so I had fun taking lots of photo's.

Group Mosin Nagant photoo, and these won't be my only MN's either...next MN on my list is a M38, but will be over ridden if I spot a M91, more so if its a Remington or NEW M91.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3765/p1012845.jpg
my dog says hi
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/219/p1012831.jpg

[TeeKup]

DOGGY :3

[TVTyrant]

Your lawn is really nice. I especially like the mossy parts.

[PenGuin1362]

It's important to fertilize your lawn before the winter months, it can help eliminate brown or dead patches in the spring time.

[TVTyrant]

Don't forget to rake often as well. That can be very important as far as the health of your grass. All those twigs and leaves will kill your lawn!

[Roostervier]

I did though take your comment serious Penguin lol, but eh I had nothing to do today so I had fun taking lots of photo's.

Group Mosin Nagant photoo, and these won't be my only MN's either...next MN on my list is a M38, but will be over ridden if I spot a M91, more so if its a Remington or NEW M91.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3765/p1012845.jpg
swag is right man keep it up
:mech2:

[Spartan094]

Don't mind this guy, he is just watering his grass with his enfield.
HRKA5BNl2jc

Ordered one myself in 7.62x54R, this is going to be fun using it.

E: Since im a big retard, what the guy is using is a Bore Flushing System, it comes in 3 calibers...7.62x54R, .303, and 8mm. It's nice to clean out any corrosive ammo, its not bad. More info in link below to gunboards.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?263101-WTS-Bore-Flushing-System-(Only-1-left)

[TVTyrant]

An Enfield? In 7.62!?

I have never heard of this lol.

[Spartan094]

An Enfield? In 7.62!?

I have never heard of this lol.
Nonono, sorry blah I posted this to damn fast while texting, not a good combo. I'll edit my original post. The guy makes it in .303, 7.62x54r, and 8mm.

But heres a link to where I got it from gunboards, expecting it soon since its been shipped
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?263101-WTS-Bore-Flushing-System-%28Only-1-left%29

[TVTyrant]

:raise: no 30-06? Thats un-American

[rossmum]

Is US milsurp ammo corrosive? I have no experience with it, only Soviet (and I know British is as well)

[TVTyrant]

Is US milsurp ammo corrosive? I have no experience with it, only Soviet (and I know British is as well)
Depends on the era. Pre 1950 is definitely corrosive. The line I have heard is everything from 52 on isn't or something. I know that most of the available .30-06 ammo is not, as it was 60s production. But 5.56 and 7.62 ammo should be completely safe.

[ICEE]

Haven't gotten to fire this, but I thought it was beautiful so I decided to share. My grandpa's K31.

http://turboimg.com/p/Uue3B.jpg

http://turboimg.com/p/lnCr.jpg

http://turboimg.com/p/VUlcx.jpg

Shitty cameraphone images, but a beautiful rifle. It's exterior is charactered but its internals are all pristine.

[TVTyrant]

Nice K31

[Spartan094]

Please use [shot] tags haha, just saying dude.

Also very sexy rifle, I do want a K31 (since its a straight pull, love it) sometime but all it will do is just sit on a rack and take space up. If you go shoot it sometime take a video and share with the few of us that post in this thread.

[S3anyBoy]

The only picture I could find of my WASR
2824

And one of my Pietta 1858 Remington before I modified it (removed the loading lever and replaced grips with paracord, you can kinda see it in the other photo)
2825

[rossmum]

no what are you doing to those guns STOP IT

[TVTyrant]

no what are you doing to those guns STOP IT
.

IDGAF about the WASR, but why ruin a perfectly good cap and ball like that D:

[S3anyBoy]

Because I got a conversion cylinder for it and wanted to remove parts that were then made unnecessary.

[TVTyrant]

Because I got a conversion cylinder for it and wanted to remove parts that were then made unnecessary.
What cal conversion?

Also, the handle is not unnecessary D:

[rossmum]

w/r/t the wasr, why do you have all that unused railspace? why do you have a bipod and a foregrip when there are a range of products which integrate both of these things (don't get a grippod, they are a shitty gimmick, get one of the ones that splits down its entire length)? why do you even need a bipod on a wasr? how about the stock? i can understand if the rifle's stock is the wrong length for you, but that is really the only legitimate reason to use a collapsible ar stock on anything without a buffer tube.

it looks to me like you've sunk money into that thing for no actual functional improvement, which is never a good idea. it looks goofy as hell, 'custom' weapons have very little resell value, and it just strikes me as redundant.

[TVTyrant]

WASRs have no resell value in the first place.

Other than that I agree. Soviet style looks way fucking cooler.

[Spartan094]

All of my why to that revolver...the handles looked fine! Soviets...AK's...That reminds me of the WASR 10/63 UF I saw for $400 three gun shows again, that was the cheapest I ever seen one...

and back to being 'merican

Also what do you guys think of this picture? Picked up a box of Hornady which was surprisingly cheaper then Remington and Winchester .32 win spl by about $3 but heck its worth it.
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9692/p1012851edit1.jpg

[TVTyrant]

Lol. Nice Lever :)

[S3anyBoy]

What cal conversion?

Also, the handle is not unnecessary D:
.45 (Long) Colt



w/r/t the wasr, why do you have all that unused railspace? why do you have a bipod and a foregrip when there are a range of products which integrate both of these things (don't get a grippod, they are a shitty gimmick, get one of the ones that splits down its entire length)? why do you even need a bipod on a wasr? how about the stock? i can understand if the rifle's stock is the wrong length for you, but that is really the only legitimate reason to use a collapsible ar stock on anything without a buffer tube.

it looks to me like you've sunk money into that thing for no actual functional improvement, which is never a good idea. it looks goofy as hell, 'custom' weapons have very little resell value, and it just strikes me as redundant.
When I purchased the rifle it already had the collapsible stock and rails. I didn't want to spend money on a combo bipod/grip when I already owned the other stuff. I don't particularly care about resale value because I don't plan on selling the weapon anyway, and I don't see how you can say there's no functional improvement without having actually used it.

[rossmum]

i can say that because i have some experience in the field of military rifles, and what attachments are appropriate when. as a general rule? "some, and not often". this tactical thing is probably the best gun-related scam in history, very little of it is actually useful let alone worth the price of admission and 99% of gun owners don't know how to set it up

[TVTyrant]

i can say that because i have some experience in the field of military rifles, and what attachments are appropriate when. as a general rule? "some, and not often". this tactical thing is probably the best gun-related scam in history, very little of it is actually useful let alone worth the price of admission and 99% of gun owners don't know how to set it up
I like some of them. Optics are nice, and I like the dual verts over the traditional style, but bipods and collapsing stocks etc are just unnecessary.

[rossmum]

collapsing stocks are excusable in three scenarios;

a) you are someone who works in varying environments a lot (i.e. a soldier) and need a rifle you can shorten if need be
b) you are of an abnormal build, and thus conventional stocks are either too long or too short; this also counts if you intend to 'share' the rifle between family/friends or if it is a range rental
c) the rifle has a buffer tube, and therefore cannot readily accept a folding stock instead

optics are nice, but most people are bad at them. in this case he does have the forward rail there so something like an aimpoint could work well if he doesn't want to work with the ironsights.

bipods are acceptable if the weapon is intended for precision or is a heavy weapon, like an lmg, designed to be fired from a sturdy position. an ak - correction, a wasr, not even a real soviet/russian ak - is neither of these and the bipod is just extra weight and bulk for no benefit.

vfgs are totally acceptable and i am down with them, but it is still somewhat situational. they work on some weapons, they don't on others. in this case, yeah it could work.

really, america has been overtaken by this weird social (within gun culture) pressure to 'customise' your weapon to fit you. unless you're a soldier or cop or your weapon is designed for someone of totally different proportion to you, there is generally not much need to do this. if you intend to resell the weapon later, it kills its resale value as nobody is likely to want someone else's custom setup. you get shit like "two is one one is none" and all that. it's utter crap. less is more. the less stuff you have on your rifle, the better. less weight, less to break, less money invested. use only what you need, when you need it. if you don't need an accessory for the situation, take it off and leave it at home.

[PenGuin1362]

Ross we've been over this before, they're like a grown mans lego set. Most of the shit you do to your rifle as a civilian is completely pointless, except a few things you pointed out already. Really the only reason most people do it is because they like the look of it. And most people recognize it's useless, they just enjoy the fun of customizing their rifles. Although I will say there is a line where it does get too excessive, and those people are easy to spot.

[Spartan094]

I really dislike optics for some reason, I like iron sights better. Scopes I only like to use when appropriate when it comes to the rifle. I dislike "customizing" my weapons, find no joy in it.

Oh and thinking about Ross's post, the only reason why if I ever had a rifle with a collapsible stock is because of reason B.

[TVTyrant]

I find I'm more accurate with Irons, but a scope is necessary to hunt in Eastern Oregon.

[Cortexian]

I find I'm more accurate with Irons
http://forums.finalgear.com/attachments/technology/the-new-toys-thread/6620d1335623950-impossibru-1287339853.jpg

[TVTyrant]

No? I find my vision is much clearer, and I don't have to rely on the cheapo pieces of glass I can afford

[TVTyrant]

Just found this site

http://picturesofwar.net/

Has some really amazing stuff in it

[rossmum]

Found rust on one of my rifles for the first time ever today. Tiny, tiny speck of surface rust in the tiny cranny just above where the rear sight pin runs through the ladder on my No.4. I couldn't get steel wool in there, so i gently scraped it off with a blade and will be sure to slather it in oil next time I clean the rifle (probably in a day or two, I plan to get some more shooting done this week). Pretty impressed, I've had that rifle for two or three years now and the gun safe isn't exactly the least humid place ever. After hitting it with copper solvent, no more fur growing in the bore, either. Mosin is pristine, no rust, no pitting, nothing.

Anyone who says it's hard to take care of a rifle is full of shit, even with corrosive surplus.

[Donut]

ive heard corrosive surplus isnt even an issue as long as you clean your rifle after youre done shooting it. dont know how accurate that is, but it makes sense

[Spartan094]

It does make sense Donut, regardless I always clean my guns no matter what I shoot out of it, I'm OCD for a clean/shiny as possible bore.

Don't listen to the people that bitch about cleaning corrosive surplus ammo, they are just lazy. It isn't terribly hard just to spray just hot water or windex or just cold water and wipe it with a few rags if your in a hurry somewhere, at least this way it's "safe" for the time being. I got that Bore Flushing System just to speed up the process and get a laugh at watering my lawn with one of my Mosin Nagants.

[rossmum]

'Corrosive' surplus isn't even corrosive in itself. All it means is that the primers contain salt compounds which attract water, so if they are not cleaned out with some manner of solvent (anything water-based, or Hoppes #9, or piss - not kidding, used to be common in the early days) water will be drawn into contact with the bore and will stay there. Simply flushing the bore and giving the rifle a good cleaning after will ensure no corrosion will happen. Rifles with gas systems are more of a headache, but it's still the same deal - no salts, no rust.

The only people who have anything to fear from surplus are those who don't look after their rifles properly in the first place.

[PenGuin1362]

Hey guys what are the parts on this 870? I know the pump grip is a surefire part, but who makes the rail and the piece that attaches the back of the receiver?

http://i.imgur.com/bLSCl.jpg

e (http://i.imgur.com/bLSCl.jpg): nvm, did some digging and figured it out, but it's about $900+ to built it >_<

[TVTyrant]

Saw a WWII movie marathon tonight

Need a fucking M1 now

[Cortexian]

Hey guys what are the parts on this 870? I know the pump grip is a surefire part, but who makes the rail and the piece that attaches the back of the receiver?

http://i.imgur.com/bLSCl.jpg

e (http://i.imgur.com/bLSCl.jpg): nvm, did some digging and figured it out, but it's about $900+ to built it >_<
That is a hot 870.

[TVTyrant]

IDK dude, she looks all fake and shit. Too much plastic surgery.

[Spartan094]

IDK dude, she looks all fake and shit. Too much plastic surgery.
LOL, touche

[PenGuin1362]

IDK dude, she looks all fake and shit. Too much plastic surgery.

lol nice. I like the look of it :p but $900+ for an 870 build? >_< maybe when I make more money lol

[TVTyrant]

Assembled an epic cartridge box today

50 rounds of .30-06

25 rounds of 12 gauge BBB ammo

about 400 rounds of .22 LR

15 rounds of .300 Win Mag

all in a cigar box

[rossmum]

ACU is dumb + indefensibly bad as a camo pattern

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/560237_10151168581574848_1007820555_n.jpg

Not my photo, but check out how the Australians blend in even in the middle of a fucking flat grassy field. DPCU owns bones.

[Zeph]

ACU is dumb + indefensibly bad as a camo pattern

Depends on who you plan on fighting.

DPCU may trick a few sand niggers from seeing them, but it'll stand out like fuck with NV.

[rossmum]

Actually no it doesn't. DPCU is, in fact, specifically designed to be hard to see on NV and it works retardedly well. The effect fades with age, but the uniform is as hard to see at night as it is during the day.

[PenGuin1362]

I do believe the US currently has a contract going for new camo patterns. Last I saw of it it does a better multi-role job of blending in both desert and forest environments.

[Cortexian]

Depends on who you plan on fighting.

DPCU may trick a few sand niggers from seeing them, but it'll stand out like fuck with NV.
Usually first world countries treat their patterns with an IR solution to prevent them from showing up on NV at all.

I'm still a fan of CADPAT for operations anywhere with green:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2741/cadpat.jpg

The appropriate A-TACS work really well in their respective enviroments as well:
http://www.a-tacs.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/enlrgimg21.jpg

http://www.a-tacs.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/FG_IMG_2690-web.jpg

[rossmum]

CADPAT rules, it'd stick out real bad here though. Too dark. And too green. Green is an alien concept here.

[TVTyrant]

That CADPAT is awesome

The others are kind of meh, but the CADPAT would be perfect for Oregon/Washington/Canada

[rossmum]

CAMOUFLAGE IS FOR BOURGEOIS PIGS

http://i.imgur.com/rHHqh.jpg

Ushanka is somewhere between '44-'46, so basically WWII. Telogreika is late 60s pants, early 70s jacket (so not a shirt-collar WWII one). Boots are just dad's wellies. It was actually cold enough to justify dressing up, and holy fuck was I warm.

Yeah, shit stance. I know. I went out to rip a couple rounds into the hill before it started raining again. My last two shooting trips have been fucked over by weather.

[Spartan094]

I still need to get an Ushanka or have some Soviet style gear for kicks.

[rossmum]

Guy on Gunboards blew $2,400 on building an M14 EBR from a Springfield M1A, with his reasoning being "PSLs are crap". He shot 1.5MOA with surplus... so for all that money he got the same accuracy he would from a "crap" PSL that costs about a third as much as his humped M1A. Good work, duder! The best part was when an actual designated marksman came in and owned him:


+1 I Much prefer the PSL having used both rifle's and seeing them both in combat (using one and being shot at with the other)!

Meatmissle carried the same rifle in Iraq. Yes I was hitting consistant targets with it however the stock is crap! The rifle is to front heavy and not well balanced! If your not careful with it the stock adjustor can come loose and the entire adjustable stock assembly will sit at an angle. Besides have you tried to break down the rifle to clean it or perform user maintanence on it. I hated and so did the other designated marksman in the unit having to take the forend apart to just to clean the rifle. The screws for the stock are easy to strip and thats why we went back to the wood stocks the rifles originally came with!

IMHO even the Plastic Stocks for the M14's are a better choice! Hey but what do I know, try humping that thing up and down hills over walls up and down stairs with a full combat load and tell me what you think then. I could carry the PSL all day and get the same results in performance!

Also I am totally in agreeance with that, fuck Sage stocks. They are overrated and pretty much pointless, are much easier to fuck up than a solid stock, and are gross looking to boot. Yet another piece of tactical fluff people blow retarded amounts of money on for zero performance gain.

[Spartan094]

You know the guys at Ironworks Design have PSL stocks so you dont have to use the thumb hole stocks any more ha.

http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDNEWPSL_2.html

And I ever come across a MAK-90 and buy it for a good price I'll be replacing the thumb hole stock, urgh hate it, love a pistol grip feel. I'm going to start getting in the AK market soon, I'll stray from the Mosin Nagants for now unless if I see something of interest for cheap.

[TVTyrant]

The point isn't to use the surplus ammo though. The point is to use match ammo. I agree that its not the best combat weapon, but they are fucking awesome, and I have seen incredible groups with US military match ammo.

Not everything has to be functional. An AR-10 is a clearly superior weapon, but the M1A is a very fun toy.

[rossmum]

The point isn't to use the surplus ammo though. The point is to use match ammo. I agree that its not the best combat weapon, but they are fucking awesome, and I have seen incredible groups with US military match ammo.

Not everything has to be functional. An AR-10 is a clearly superior weapon, but the M1A is a very fun toy.
Yeah, but if it runs 1.5 with NATO surplus and a PSL runs 1.5 with WP surplus... I don't see what the point of blowing all that money was. Your average 91/30 sniper will shoot just over or at MOA with the right surplus, and under with good match, hunting, or handloaded ammo anyway, so I dunno... for the price he paid I'd want to be shooting sub minute-of-penny.

[TVTyrant]

Yeah, but if it runs 1.5 with NATO surplus and a PSL runs 1.5 with WP surplus... I don't see what the point of blowing all that money was. Your average 91/30 sniper will shoot just over or at MOA with the right surplus, and under with good match, hunting, or handloaded ammo anyway, so I dunno... for the price he paid I'd want to be shooting sub minute-of-penny.
Never seen a 91 run 1 MOA with any ammo.

Seen plenty of M1A run .5 with a good scope and brand new Federal FMJ (not crappy NATO spec, talking fancy here).

[rossmum]

Never seen a 91 run 1 MOA with any ammo.

Seen plenty of M1A run .5 with a good scope and brand new Federal FMJ (not crappy NATO spec, talking fancy here).
91/30 sniper. A regular 91/30 that runs under 2.5 is an unlikely find.

The acceptance standard for 91/30 snipers was ~1.2MOA and many of them will shoot MOA with the right surplus (varies from rifle to rifle). They will shoot under if they're in really good condition, being fired by someone who knows what they're doing (or on a lead sled), and are being fed some really nice handloads.

[TVTyrant]

91/30 sniper. A regular 91/30 that runs under 2.5 is an unlikely find.

The acceptance standard for 91/30 snipers was ~1.2MOA and many of them will shoot MOA with the right surplus (varies from rifle to rifle). They will shoot under if they're in really good condition, being fired by someone who knows what they're doing (or on a lead sled), and are being fed some really nice handloads.
fair enough, since Springfields/Mausers/Enfields were held to that standard or similar as well.

[Spartan094]

My first regular infantry 91/30 preforms fine with surplus ammo, now give it commercial ammo and it performs absolutely good, it loves .308 diameter bullets since I gave it Winchester FMJ (note they use .308 diameter bullets and is seated differently in the casing compared to surplus) and it ran through all of it perfectly and hit dead center at any target I gave it. Acutely my 91/30 when it comes to surplus seems to love Czech silver tip surplus, shoots every target dead on and shoots minute of fascist just fine.

But one of these days I'll pick up and have a Springfield/Mauser K98k/Enfield.

Oh yeah I tried to get a East German AK furniture set off gunboards, just slow to the draw so I lost that. Right now I'm trying to get a East German AK/SKS gray sling, yes I don't have an AK varient right now, so it's going to be used on my airsoft AK47 for the time being.

[rossmum]

91/30s are really luck of the draw. Infantry rifles range from almost sniper quality through to 4+ MOA during the height of "OH FUCK, NAZIS" panic production, with the only real consistency coming from the snipers.

Regardless, though, they are damn near impossible to break and are handy weapons. Haters can fuck right off.

http://i.imgur.com/1Wcyo.jpg

...The modern VDV agrees.

[TVTyrant]

Just confirmed I'm a terrible shot with a scope the other day

Three rounds on irons, all in a nice clover from my .30-06 at 70 yards

After sighting in for on at 70 (adjusted the elevation later), shot a two inch fucking group

Barrel was cool at the start of each group

My buddy shot a 1 inch with it

Fuck do I hate scopes

[TVTyrant]

91/30s are really luck of the draw. Infantry rifles range from almost sniper quality through to 4+ MOA during the height of "OH FUCK, NAZIS" panic production, with the only real consistency coming from the snipers.

Regardless, though, they are damn near impossible to break and are handy weapons. Haters can fuck right off.

...The modern VDV agrees.
Only thing is those fuckers are looonnnnnngggggg. M44s are fucking awesome though. I'd pay the price to have a snubby carbine that shoots powerful ammo.

[Spartan094]

Yes they are luck of the draw, my first one came from a pawn shop and I had no idea what to look for in one and my grandfather got it for me, so I'm glad when I finally became more experienced about MN's by doing a lot of research, it shot just fine....though it HATES Russian surplus.

Also they only break if you intentionally try to break it.

Fake E: Since Tyrant is speaking about M44's and I took some new photo's yesterday
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1996/p1012921.jpg

[Spartan094]

I decided to buy a crate of these, these are surplus from the late 40's so this will be interesting.

Russian 7.62x54R on Mosin Chargers, so I got 600 rounds so I guess I'm set for quite sometime :raise:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/eos/images/product//large_A76254SC4.jpg
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76254SC&name=Russian+7.62x54R+on+Mosin+Chargers+300rd+can&groupid=6

[rossmum]

Keep a couple of the rounds if they're that old. Could you get a better photo of the markings on the case lid? Those are type L light ball rounds, same as used in WWII and a little different to the later, more commonly found type LPS.

Also, it never ceases to amaze me how incredibly stupid old shooters can get. This one fucktard on YT has been insisting that Mosins are crap, everything made in Russia is crap, America makes the best guns in the world and he could outshoot a Mosin any day of the week. Yes you fucking retard, your $5,000 space Mauser of which the only actual Mauser part is the receiver sure will outshoot an $800 Second World War sniper rifle and $100 infantry rifle, because they are not specifically designed as target rifles holy hell you stupid fuck. He's supposedly a hunting guide and gunsmith though so he thinks he knows fucking everything.

He's in Oregon so if you ever see him Tyrant, please punch him in his big stupid fucking mouth please.

[Spartan094]

Sure I'll take a bunch of photo's and put some up here when my shipment comes to me. Shipping can be a killer and sometimes I hate waiting haha. And I do keep any 7.62x54r rounds that I don't have and line them up in my bullet collection. I'll keep probably one of those 15 round packages and use the rest, depends.

Also Oregon? I think TVTryant could do that for you.

[rossmum]

Wait, no. He's not there now. He lives in Romania. Balls.

Any Romanians here around Ploesti willing to punch him in his big dumb mouth? Should I get on the line to the USAF? Those guys know their way around Ploesti...

e: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID01.htm Yours would be the third down. If you ever find any of the ShKAS stuff, well... party times. Those are for aircraft MGs. You'd want to check pressures though to make sure they wouldn't fuck your rifle (don't shoot heavy ball!)

[Spartan094]

I always check the headstamps on any cartridge I get, dunno why but I just do. And I would find it odd for ShKAS rounds to be loaded onto clips, just saying. Also for sure one of those rounds I will be getting will be saved and displayed in my collection of "7.62x54mmR" line up.

[TVTyrant]

Fuck

I have all this 8mm Yugo ammo, and have been planning on buying an M24

But for that price I practically can't resist buying that Mosin ammo. On clips? $130n for 600?

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-----

Also that guy sounds hilarious Ross lol. Obviously a customized sporting rifle is going to be more accurate than a old mil surp rifle. The difference being that the sporting rifle is going to be ungainly, heavy, and far more fragile than a Mosin or K98 or M1903 ever will be. Thats the point of a custom sporter. Its for sport.

[Spartan094]

How do you think I felt Tyrant ha, I got a crate and after S&H (urge fuck I hate those charges) it was $160.94 so it aint half bad at all.

[TVTyrant]

How do you think I felt Tyrant ha, I got a crate and after S&H (urge fuck I hate those charges) it was $160.94 so it aint half bad at all.
Fucking damn that's cheap

Did it come with a can opener or not?

[rossmum]

I always check the headstamps on any cartridge I get, dunno why but I just do. And I would find it odd for ShKAS rounds to be loaded onto clips, just saying. Also for sure one of those rounds I will be getting will be saved and displayed in my collection of "7.62x54mmR" line up.
It's more of an 'if you find someone at a gun show with a shitload of red-tip they can't ID correctly' thing. As long as it can be done without risking damage to the rifle, I can imagine firing PZ out of a Mosin would be hilariously awesome.



Also that guy sounds hilarious Ross lol. Obviously a customized sporting rifle is going to be more accurate than a old mil surp rifle. The difference being that the sporting rifle is going to be ungainly, heavy, and far more fragile than a Mosin or K98 or M1903 ever will be. Thats the point of a custom sporter. Its for sport.
Yeah, he's basically distilled Fudd. Loads of hunting and gunsmithing experience, so his only judgement of a weapon's worth is whether it's useful for hunting and target shooting. No appreciation for old milsurp stuff, because his only contact with it sounds like when people bought in a beautiful old rifle for "improving" into a DEER RAHFUL (fuck everyone who does this these days, seriously, there is zero excuse). No fucking humility because he is an old grumpy shithead who does one thing well and will not take anyone younger than him or from another aspect of shooting seriously (fuck, being 22 and getting even other collectors to take you seriously is hard at times).

He is literally that guy who sits at the range with his little weather station and humped-to-shit-and-back Swede Mauser complaining loudly when someone turns up with an AK and rips ten rounds into the berm. Or who gets up and leaves amidst a sea of passive-aggressive mumbling and cursing when he sees someone walking towards the firing line with an SVT-40, haha.

[TVTyrant]

Yeah, he's basically distilled Fudd. Loads of hunting and gunsmithing experience, so his only judgement of a weapon's worth is whether it's useful for hunting and target shooting. No appreciation for old milsurp stuff, because his only contact with it sounds like when people bought in a beautiful old rifle for "improving" into a DEER RAHFUL (fuck everyone who does this these days, seriously, there is zero excuse). No fucking humility because he is an old grumpy shithead who does one thing well and will not take anyone younger than him or from another aspect of shooting seriously (fuck, being 22 and getting even other collectors to take you seriously is hard at times).

He is literally that guy who sits at the range with his little weather station and humped-to-shit-and-back Swede Mauser complaining loudly when someone turns up with an AK and rips ten rounds into the berm. Or who gets up and leaves amidst a sea of passive-aggressive mumbling and cursing when he sees someone walking towards the firing line with an SVT-40, haha.
Lol. Yeah, but America does produce some really awesome sporting weapons for great prices. The difference being that they aren't shitting them out, and most don't have irons

[rossmum]

Most of America's good stuff is overseas-made now, including pretty much all of Winchester's stuff and I believe Remington's as well.

[TVTyrant]

Most of America's good stuff is overseas-made now, including pretty much all of Winchester's stuff and I believe Remington's as well.
Remington still makes their best guns here in the US

The Marlin XL7 is an excellent budget rifle thats made in the USA

Savage makes all their rifles in the States

IDK about Winchester and Browning (they're the same company) but I think theirs are made in Belgium. Not many are made anyways though, because FN refuses to sell legit Winchester rifles (levers I mean) at any kind of reasonable price.

[rossmum]

Winchester went to Japan quite some time ago, as did Weatherby (for all intents and purposes, Weatherby and Howa rifles are the same - they're made in the same factory far as I know). Browning was Belgium for most of the 20th century, but if it's the same as Winchester I expect it would be in Japan too. As for Remington, I've heard their QC has basically gone off a cliff lately, and I'd be inclined to believe it. The usual bullshit of "pay more for less" and all that.

As far as hunting rifles go, I do need one. Neither of my rifles are suitable for hunting animals as they were designed to hunt fascists instead, and shooting them is a bit legally questionable these days (also I am not inclined towards wishing harm against other people, even awful ones!) so that is out. I'd actually really like a pre-'64 Model 70 or a 1903 Schoenauer carbine with all the options, though the latter will be expensive as all fuck anywhere let alone here. I did see a Schoenauer at the last gunshow I went to, but it didn't have the double-set triggers or the full stock. One of the guys on TFR got one with both of those as well as a full-length rib and an old aftermarket Lyman peep sprung to swing out of the bolt's way, and, well...

http://i.imgur.com/Fn5MX.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/JHz2D.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/2RwCT.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/QRrRT.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/Mpgym.jpg?1

...http://i.imgur.com/KA0b6.gif

Rifle just oozes class.

e/ too lazy for shot tags and they're only 1,024 so deal with it, anyone running a res where that's a problem needs to get with the times

[TVTyrant]

Is that a 6.5 or a 9mm?

[rossmum]

6.5 IIRC

[TVTyrant]

6.5 IIRC
I like the 9mm far better. I read a ballistic study on it in a book (Rifle Guide, by Sam Fadala) and it basically launches a 250 grainer at the same speed as the 6.5 throws a 160.

[rossmum]

I'll just share this latest gem with you guys.


I will tell you the same as I tell all you video war gamer punks !

Man up to your total Bull Shit your mosin is some target grade rifle,bring that hunk of shit inaccurate Mosin and 5000 euro for bet money you are going to loose because at 600 out to 1000 yards you are not going to even touch paper !

There is a reason mosin rifle's cost 99 dollars, these guns are a hunk of Russian crap !

You punks need to lay off smoken crack and the video war games !

I replied with this:


Ah yes, dismiss it out of hand. I'm a collector, you fuckwit, and I know as much about Mosins as you do about hunting rifles. You clearly value accuracy which is just fine. I am under no illusions of making accurate shots to 1000+ yards, but I am also not going to expect your rifle to stand up to years of abuse in a massive war the same way you seem to think anything that can't shoot under MOA at 500yd is 'junk'. They were cutting edge tech... 68 YEARS AGO. Clearly they are outdated now.

I mean holy fucking shit you're stupid. You may as well challenge someone in a Model T to race against your Ferrari, you fucking idiot.

Against a WWII Kar98k, an M1903, or an Enfield, the Mosin performs just fine. Of course some done-up custom rifle with modern parts will outperform it. At the time it was made it was far from a 'piece of junk'. I may as well compare a Krag to an F2000 and then say all US rifles are shit, according to your logic that's a fair comparison, right? Retard.

I also called him out in another reply for being an illiterate moron, so this should be fun. Wanna take bets how long it is before he starts trying to threaten/intimidate me? Seems to be a pretty strong correlation between anyone who still uses 'punk' as a derogatory statement and ignorant old nationalistic shitheels who think they know it all and anyone who steps to them is gonna 'get it'.

[Spartan094]

Fucking damn that's cheap

Did it come with a can opener or not?
There's a metal tab on each tin you pull to open the can, no can opener needed just a hand and muscle power.

And my god I am laughing my ass off to rossmum's reply to that guy, since well the gene pool is a bit shallow and people need some reminding to how retarded they are.

[rossmum]

He's still arguing. If older shooters wonder why the younger generations don't have as much respect for them as they probably ought to, idiotic assholes like this are the reason. 30 years' experience as an Alaskan guide and gunsmith... and still the dumbest motherfucker on the face of the Earth.

e/


You are a funny mosin Russian fanboy !
You sure get all pissed off like your squirrel size balls are in a pinch over stupid things !
I sure hurt your mosin Russian fanboy feelings LOL !
Back to kindergarten insults? Usually a good sign of an impending meltdown. This'll be good, better go grab some popcorn while I just throw cheap shots at him to wind him up! :allears:

[Spartan094]

Aw yeah
My ammo is from 1946, factory 188
I'm going to open one of the tins for now, and transfer them to a different ammo crate, the one it came in is not the best I would say
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3708/p1012988.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7589/p1012990.jpg

E:
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5589/p1012992.jpg

[rossmum]

188 was Novosibirsk IIRC.

Top line - Calibre (7.62mm)/bullet type (L - tombac, lead core, 147gr spitzer)/case type (GZh - copper washed steel)
Bottom line on these cans is slightly different to the later ones, usually letter (cartridge lot #)/year/factory, then powder type/batch over year/powder source. That does seem more '46 than '67 though so I dunno what the fuck. They may have simplified the layout, or it could've been repacked - or the 46 could be something else. I dunno why they'd be putting out ammo on Mosin strippers in '67 though.

e/ That crate is marked 'Germukuporka' which I assume means it was for the occupying forces in E. Germany

e2/ '46 fits with Type L production which ended in '54 (LPS began '53)

Also, wish I had this in desktop res

http://russiatrek.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/soviet-world-war-2-posters-3.jpg

[TVTyrant]

Repacked makes sense

That ammo is sexy as fuck though

[Spartan094]

The genuine clips work pretty well loading the magazine.

Btw it isn't "Germukuporka" it's "гермоукупорка" which means it's hermetically sealed.

[rossmum]

That's literally the same thing, just in Latin lettering, I just didn't realise what it meant.

[Spartan094]

Neh sorry when I saw the GER and all that it threw me off. Oh well, I'll test out the ammo sometime, I'll get a video of it too.

[Boba]

Back to kindergarten insults? Usually a good sign of an impending meltdown.

Didn't you just call him a 'fuckwit', a 'retard', a 'fucking idiot', an 'ignorant old nationalistic shitheels', and say 'holy fucking shit you're stupid'??

I'm not disagreeing with your points, but ??? :v:

[rossmum]

Yeah but he literally is all of those things.

[Roostervier]

Yeah but he literally is all of those things.

You are a funny mosin Russian fanboy !
You sure get all pissed off like your squirrel size balls are in a pinch over stupid things !
I sure hurt your mosin Russian fanboy feelings LOL !
Funny, you are literally all those things

[rossmum]

haha get out of my thread delusional weirdo

[rossmum]

no im dead serious, no wannabe nazis allowed, go away. dream about mass murder or whatever it is that sociopathic nuts dream about

[TVTyrant]

Funny, you are literally all those things
Unless you have something to say about guns or gun related topics, please leave.

If you don't like Ross' attitude don't comment on it

[TVTyrant]

Also, somebody make me a Mod so I can fucking clean up the filth in these threads.

[rossmum]

Hahaha what a retard, he's still going

I just dropped the "I guess pretty much every modern helicopter including the Blackhawk and Sea King is junk since they were designed by, or use systems invented by, a Russian, and Remington and NEW make crap because they built M91s under contract" bomb on him. Let's see how he squirms his way out of that (although I'm sure he will).

[Boba]

really wish this thread would be renamed modacity military thread because while I don't know much about small arms, vehicles are my bread and butter

vehicle of the day: t-80u and it's derivatives (aka you're not going to learn anything from pictures of major models)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/924197194_k7nbt-O.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/924198394_3q3Pr-O.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/924198839_NqR7y-O.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/924199420_ngdZD-O.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/1252826928688.jpg

it's okay oplot you can come too

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/t84-nl.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/t84-indep10l.jpg

i still love you BE, i will never forget u <3

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/53158677.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/t12_black_eagle_l7.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/t12_black_eagle_l10.jpg

everyone has seen this already BE, but i still think u look good

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632965/T-80/T-95-MBT-781597.jpg

the day that i start seeing modern T-80Us instead of T-90s games will be the day everything will be right in the world

i don't care what they say about you T-80U, ur still my fave~

[rossmum]

The T-80U owns fucking bones and is a one-tank counterargument to "AMERICAN TANKS ARE BETTER"

If you want to see it in games, get Wargame: European Escalation. It's one of the most expensive units in the game so they're more of an endgame thing, but they are exactly as good as they should be (as is the T-64BV). They will take on an inordinate number of Pattons and still win.

[TVTyrant]

Image dump is making my computer slow down :|

Also, isn't the T-80 already out of date?

[TVTyrant]

The T-80U owns fucking bones and is a one-tank counterargument to "AMERICAN TANKS ARE BETTER"

If you want to see it in games, get Wargame: European Escalation. It's one of the most expensive units in the game so they're more of an endgame thing, but they are exactly as good as they should be (as is the T-64BV). They will take on an inordinate number of Pattons and still win.
The thing is, that tanks like the T-80 aren't very common. The Russian tank force is mostly comprised of T-72s, which we and the Brits have repeatedly wiped off the desert map all over the world.

[rossmum]

Image dump is making my computer slow down :|

Also, isn't the T-80 already out of date?
In the same way the Abrams is, sure


The thing is, that tanks like the T-80 aren't very common. The Russian tank force is mostly comprised of T-72s, which we and the Brits have repeatedly wiped off the desert map all over the world.
No, what you and the Brits wiped out were monkey models. The US has never, ever come up against bona-fide Soviet or Russian military equipment, only de-fanged exports missing most of their advanced systems and usually fucked up by whichever third-world or dictatorial shithole bought them. It is a very stupid hole to fall into passing Russian tech off as 'junk' because Abrams tanks killed a bunch of downgraded early-model T-72s crewed by incompetent Iraqis.

As for their rarity, yes, we all know that the T-80 was a special tank used by important or prestigious units. 'Rare tank' for the Soviet union is rather a lot different than 'rare tank' for NATO, though, and you should remember that. The T-72 was the bulk of the Soviet Army's tank force, and we know that the T-72 was not a particularly impressive tank versus an Abrams or Challenger. That is because it was intended to be a cheap, expendable hunter-killer that could fill out numbers while the real boys - the T-80s and T-64s - took on the hard stuff. The T-72 is not an inherently bad tank and most of the rumours about it being a deathtrap are little more than that, started by Westerners to try and turn the T-72 into a paper dragon when it is a real threat. Its gun is good, it is extremely smalll and difficult to spot, and there are a damn lot of them. I guarantee you that if the Fulda Gap had gone down, regardless of the final outcome, it would have gone very badly for NATO. Never, ever underestimate a potential enemy. Always assume their tech is better than yours, and prepare accordingly.

As it is, the T-72 is easily disabled by knocking out its autoloader (as manual loading is only possible by hand-cranking the autoloader and takes over a minute per round), and when its ammo rack goes up, it goes up big. While it is still moving and still has an operational gun, though, it is a big problem for anyone. Remember that for every decent NATO tank, there would be several T-72s. They become a lot more scary when you stop applying the stupid 1-on-1 philosophy people have used since ancient times to make their enemies look inferior - see how well that worked out for the Germans, on both fronts.

[TVTyrant]

In the same way the Abrams is, sure
Yeah, the Abrams IS outdated though. No missile defense, the computers suck etc. Needs a huge overhaul.

[rossmum]

Haha, not according to most people. Ask them what the best tank in the world is and it's always either the Leo or (almost always, when asking Americans) the M1. The Challenger II doesn't even get a look in despite empirically being the best protected tank on the planet, and with excellent armament and mobility. People will laugh off the T-90 (remember, it's an upgraded T-72), though it can sit hull-down firing ATGMs all day and laughing it up as nobody can spot the damn thing. The reality is that current warfare is forcing sidegrades in our armour development, not upgrades. Worries about ATGMs and even the humble RPG have resulted in all kinds of research going into reactive armour and active countermeasures while very little thought goes into what happens when your enemy actually has tanks of their own. It should be real interesting if two serious military powers ever do go to war, conventionally.

[TVTyrant]

Haha, not according to most people. Ask them what the best tank in the world is and it's always either the Leo or (almost always, when asking Americans) the M1. The Challenger II doesn't even get a look in despite empirically being the best protected tank on the planet, and with excellent armament and mobility. People will laugh off the T-90 (remember, it's an upgraded T-72), though it can sit hull-down firing ATGMs all day and laughing it up as nobody can spot the damn thing. The reality is that current warfare is forcing sidegrades in our armour development, not upgrades. Worries about ATGMs and even the humble RPG have resulted in all kinds of research going into reactive armour and active countermeasures while very little thought goes into what happens when your enemy actually has tanks of their own. It should be real interesting if two serious military powers ever do go to war, conventionally.
That's the thing, is that will probably never happen. If it does it will be the Americans or the Russians vs. the Chinks. And in that situation, either the 1A or 1B military would lose because we can't keep up with China in terms of production and size of conscripted military.

[FreedomFighter7]

Yes that would be interesting! I think however governments and militaries only prepare for immediate threats. Its a total waste of money to build an army of tanks to fight, who? Someone with another army of tanks? That same rationality permeats everything, the reason Katrina did so much damage was everyone knew it was possible, but no one did anything until the shit hit the fan. They don't prepare for something until they know they've got a problem, which makes sense, but sometimes you don't have the time to counter it. I know that during an arms race the defense spending would skyrocket, but normal times it is just a waste. That's the reason the stealth bomber has been retired, the soviet union is no longer in a cold war with the US and its allies, therefore there is no need for a stealth bomber. But the US does have nuclear capabilities, as everyone knows, as a deterrent.

I've also heard Russia has somewhere on the order of 100,000 cold war era tanks still in service?

I know something, those russian engineers are damn smart when it comes to military weaponry. During the cold war, when everyone realized the most likely threat of an ICBM attack on the US from Russia was over the North Pole, the Us built three lines of radar stations through canada. By the time they were completed, Russia had ICBM's that came from the complete opposite direction, over the south pole. Just fricking ingenious.

EDIT: TV, the US has tons of nukes however.

[TVTyrant]

I think, for the sake of convo, we are leaving out nukes. Since China has plenty and no one outside of insane christians/commies/muslims want to see that happen.